Matilda McDuck (resurrected DCF thread)
Nov 5, 2019 16:32:40 GMT
TheMidgetMoose and Fethryfan like this
Post by Baar Baar Jinx on Nov 5, 2019 16:32:40 GMT
Okay, I'm going to try to post and possibly resurrect some old DCF threads here. As of now, the DCF is only available in an HTML format, so it's going to take some cutting and pasting as well as reformatting; maybe we'll discover an easier/better way to do it in future. First up, this one about Matilda McDuck.
Opel Rekord1985 2013-02-24, 20:03:15
Am I the only fan? :3
I'd really like to see her in future comics. :/
Only her and Scrooge left of the Clan McDuck.
Am I the only fan? :3
I'd really like to see her in future comics. :/
Only her and Scrooge left of the Clan McDuck.
Roger North 2013-02-24, 20:38:22
Maybe they will if they publish traditional Disney Comics in America.
Maybe they will if they publish traditional Disney Comics in America.
Baar Baar Jinx 2013-02-24, 20:50:29
I think it'd be tricky to reconcile her sudden reappearance with her absence from previous Duck continuity. In Rosa's version of events, she and Hortense left Duckburg when Donald and Della were still very young, because of her inability to accept what Scrooge had become (Chapter XII of Life of Scrooge). But how does that explain her decision never to visit Grandma, Donald or the nephews (who were completely unaware of her existence in "Letter from Home")? Rosa also states that Donald and the boys themselves were estranged from Scrooge until the events of "Christmas on Bear Mountain". Why, then, does Matilda stay away from the rest of the family? It's not like Donald and HD&L were part of a pro-Scrooge faction of the family (at least until that point) that she wouldn't associate with. This conundrum is the reason I never really liked Rosa having brought her back into modern-day Duckdom.
That said, I believe I read somewhere that Rosa had been planning to use her in future stories, if he hadn't retired. Can anyone confirm this?
I think it'd be tricky to reconcile her sudden reappearance with her absence from previous Duck continuity. In Rosa's version of events, she and Hortense left Duckburg when Donald and Della were still very young, because of her inability to accept what Scrooge had become (Chapter XII of Life of Scrooge). But how does that explain her decision never to visit Grandma, Donald or the nephews (who were completely unaware of her existence in "Letter from Home")? Rosa also states that Donald and the boys themselves were estranged from Scrooge until the events of "Christmas on Bear Mountain". Why, then, does Matilda stay away from the rest of the family? It's not like Donald and HD&L were part of a pro-Scrooge faction of the family (at least until that point) that she wouldn't associate with. This conundrum is the reason I never really liked Rosa having brought her back into modern-day Duckdom.
That said, I believe I read somewhere that Rosa had been planning to use her in future stories, if he hadn't retired. Can anyone confirm this?
Opel Rekord1985 2013-02-24, 20:55:11
Well, I hope she gets featured in future stories. :/
Well, I hope she gets featured in future stories. :/
Roger North 2013-02-25, 13:20:55
If she does appear it will half to be someone other than Don Rosa writing this stories.
If she does appear it will half to be someone other than Don Rosa writing this stories.
Lars Jensen 2013-02-25, 13:39:57
In the Don Rosa Duck universe: yes. But there are tons of non-Rosa stories with other McDucks.
Opel Rekord1985: Only her and Scrooge left of the Clan McDuck.
Gyro Gearloose 2013-02-25, 19:02:05
The idea that characters like Matilda are "tricky to reconcile" with "exisiting continuity" is a silly one; there should be nothing to stop Disney writers and artists from using previously unknown characters if they please. One point I never tire of making: if Carl Barks had been so preoccupied with continuity, we wouldn't have Uncle Scrooge, Gladstone Gander, the Beagle Boys, Gyro Gearloose, and many other characters--Barks never said "my gosh, people will wonder where these characters were in earlier stories--I can't bring them in." Rigid continuity concerns are for superhero fans, not Duck fans.
The idea that characters like Matilda are "tricky to reconcile" with "exisiting continuity" is a silly one; there should be nothing to stop Disney writers and artists from using previously unknown characters if they please. One point I never tire of making: if Carl Barks had been so preoccupied with continuity, we wouldn't have Uncle Scrooge, Gladstone Gander, the Beagle Boys, Gyro Gearloose, and many other characters--Barks never said "my gosh, people will wonder where these characters were in earlier stories--I can't bring them in." Rigid continuity concerns are for superhero fans, not Duck fans.
Baar Baar Jinx 2013-02-25, 20:04:40
I have to respectfully disagree. The Barks analogy doesn't fit, IMHO. When Barks created his universe, he did so out of almost nothing; all he had were Donald, the boys and maybe Grandma. He created an entire world based on that small cast of characters. It is that world that other writers and artists are expanding upon. That world already exists and is firmly established, and its basic rules would seem sacrosant.
The idea that Scrooge has a living sister who never appeared at any Thanksgiving dinners or Christmas parties, who chose to be absent as the boys were growing up, who was never mentioned as being still alive by any of the central cast of characters, is at odds with previously established convention. Distant cousins and uncles and aunts, maybe, but brothers/sisters/children that were around all along and never appeared before in situations where they should have if they did exist?
There's nothing to stop another writer from giving Donald a brother, or Gladstone a son, or have Scrooge be married or so forth, but to do so would violate what I believe is the consensus among Duck fans. I don't believe in rigid continuity, but I believe certain fundamental "facts" should be respected. Just my opinion.
I have to respectfully disagree. The Barks analogy doesn't fit, IMHO. When Barks created his universe, he did so out of almost nothing; all he had were Donald, the boys and maybe Grandma. He created an entire world based on that small cast of characters. It is that world that other writers and artists are expanding upon. That world already exists and is firmly established, and its basic rules would seem sacrosant.
The idea that Scrooge has a living sister who never appeared at any Thanksgiving dinners or Christmas parties, who chose to be absent as the boys were growing up, who was never mentioned as being still alive by any of the central cast of characters, is at odds with previously established convention. Distant cousins and uncles and aunts, maybe, but brothers/sisters/children that were around all along and never appeared before in situations where they should have if they did exist?
There's nothing to stop another writer from giving Donald a brother, or Gladstone a son, or have Scrooge be married or so forth, but to do so would violate what I believe is the consensus among Duck fans. I don't believe in rigid continuity, but I believe certain fundamental "facts" should be respected. Just my opinion.
GeoX 2013-02-27, 04:57:07
Well, if we want to run with the Rosa chronology, the idea is that Scrooge thoroughly alienated his sisters in 1930. Given that, in this scenario, he's only "redeemed" in 1947, it seems plausible to me that this alienation would be so ingrained that it would persist until "The Old Castle's Other Secret." And given that Matilda isn't as closely linked to Donald and the kids as Hortense, it doesn't seem SO wildly implausible that this new character should just appear, in realistic terms.
No, I think the reason why trying to make the character into a regular seems like a dubious idea is a little more subtle than that. There was some talk recently on Joe Torcivia's blog about whether the designation of "fanfic" is appropriate for Rosa's work. And I would modify what I said there somewhat and say that, insofar as Rosa's family-drama stuff goes, yes, there is, and this is why: because one thing about the main characters in Disney comics is that their relationships are just assumed to be what they are, if you see what I mean. There's no specific, subtextual background drama to Scrooge's relationship with Donald or Donald's with Gladstone or any other you can think of. Sure, their relationships must have developed into what they are at some point, but that stuff is always just assumed. I feel like when you introduce this level of intense, specific, psychological continuity to the proceedings, you are doing something which, even if they can't quite articulate it, a lot of people kind of intuitively understand is contrary to the way Disney comics work, and that's where the "fanfic" notion comes from. Scarpa could come up with his own original characters, but there's nothing like that in their characterizations, which is why they're generally unobjectionable (in that sense, at least). That Rosa has no problem doing this sort of thing to the extent that editors let him is a good part of what distinguishes him from, well, from every other creator ever, for better or worse.
Don't get me wrong: I WAKin' love "The Old Castle's Other Secret," along with Rosa's whole continuity. But at the same time, I feel like it would just be peculiar for Matilda to become a standard character used by other writers, and I think that's the objection, explicit or implicit, that others also have to the idea.
Well, if we want to run with the Rosa chronology, the idea is that Scrooge thoroughly alienated his sisters in 1930. Given that, in this scenario, he's only "redeemed" in 1947, it seems plausible to me that this alienation would be so ingrained that it would persist until "The Old Castle's Other Secret." And given that Matilda isn't as closely linked to Donald and the kids as Hortense, it doesn't seem SO wildly implausible that this new character should just appear, in realistic terms.
No, I think the reason why trying to make the character into a regular seems like a dubious idea is a little more subtle than that. There was some talk recently on Joe Torcivia's blog about whether the designation of "fanfic" is appropriate for Rosa's work. And I would modify what I said there somewhat and say that, insofar as Rosa's family-drama stuff goes, yes, there is, and this is why: because one thing about the main characters in Disney comics is that their relationships are just assumed to be what they are, if you see what I mean. There's no specific, subtextual background drama to Scrooge's relationship with Donald or Donald's with Gladstone or any other you can think of. Sure, their relationships must have developed into what they are at some point, but that stuff is always just assumed. I feel like when you introduce this level of intense, specific, psychological continuity to the proceedings, you are doing something which, even if they can't quite articulate it, a lot of people kind of intuitively understand is contrary to the way Disney comics work, and that's where the "fanfic" notion comes from. Scarpa could come up with his own original characters, but there's nothing like that in their characterizations, which is why they're generally unobjectionable (in that sense, at least). That Rosa has no problem doing this sort of thing to the extent that editors let him is a good part of what distinguishes him from, well, from every other creator ever, for better or worse.
Don't get me wrong: I WAKin' love "The Old Castle's Other Secret," along with Rosa's whole continuity. But at the same time, I feel like it would just be peculiar for Matilda to become a standard character used by other writers, and I think that's the objection, explicit or implicit, that others also have to the idea.
Review Or Die 2013-02-27, 12:55:18
What then makes me curious is whether someone willing to write to that level, meaning, willing to take on in their work the belief that Rosa's version of Disney comics are the way they should be (and in many ways I know I do, for about a hundred different reasons) at least regarding the way the characters are, farcically or otherwise, essentially people would face the same level of objection.
GeoX: Don't get me wrong: I WAKin' love "The Old Castle's Other Secret," along with Rosa's whole continuity. But at the same time, I feel like it would just be peculiar for Matilda to become a standard character used by other writers, and I think that's the objection, explicit or implicit, that others also have to the idea.
Matilda 2013-02-27, 16:06:38
I find GeoX's take on why people think "fanfic" when they read Rosa to be very convincing. I'm not, however, entirely convinced by that argument that Matilda couldn't be a continuing character, used by other authors.
First, on the plausibility of Rosa's storyline: I find it perfectly believable that Matilda's deep alienation from Scrooge would last till A Letter from Home, and that this alienation would keep her from visiting Duckburg. She *has* stayed in letter-contact with Donald, but her wish to keep it secret that she's the castle caretaker in order to keep distance from Scrooge (so she had sworn Donald to secrecy on that) is enough explanation for HDL not knowing about her. That would not be believable if they were her grandsons, but I think it is believable given that they are her grandnephews. And therefore, it is reasonable (for people who care about such things) for her to show up in stories when there are loads of past stories (incl. holiday gatherings et al.) at which she did not appear. We can just assume these new stories take place after A Letter from Home, and all the other stories took place before it.
Second, on whether she could be used by other authors: I think I see GeoX's argument re the background drama to the relationship. A story which *depended on* knowing that psychodrama would feel somewhat like fanfic squared. But it seems to me that Matilda could be used as a character without much or any reference to the backstory. She and Scrooge have reconciled (Not to say they won't fight again! But they won't write each other off again...), and she could interact with the whole family (in Duckburg, Scotland or anywhere else) without direct reference to the past. One could throw in a joke about or a reference to the past estrangement for readers who care about those things, as Geoff Blum threw in references to Barksian history. (I realize that's a different *sort* of history; I'm just saying the reference could be thrown in similarly). People who cared would enjoy it, people who didn't could blip over it. I think her personality and her ways of interacting with the others (post-reconciliation) could stand on their own in narratives, without having to have the dramatic backstory explained or known by the reader. From the POV of the non-continuity-concerned reader, I fail to see why including Matilda in such a way would be any more odd than having Rumpus or (sob, shudder) Brigitta in certain stories and not in others.
I find GeoX's take on why people think "fanfic" when they read Rosa to be very convincing. I'm not, however, entirely convinced by that argument that Matilda couldn't be a continuing character, used by other authors.
First, on the plausibility of Rosa's storyline: I find it perfectly believable that Matilda's deep alienation from Scrooge would last till A Letter from Home, and that this alienation would keep her from visiting Duckburg. She *has* stayed in letter-contact with Donald, but her wish to keep it secret that she's the castle caretaker in order to keep distance from Scrooge (so she had sworn Donald to secrecy on that) is enough explanation for HDL not knowing about her. That would not be believable if they were her grandsons, but I think it is believable given that they are her grandnephews. And therefore, it is reasonable (for people who care about such things) for her to show up in stories when there are loads of past stories (incl. holiday gatherings et al.) at which she did not appear. We can just assume these new stories take place after A Letter from Home, and all the other stories took place before it.
Second, on whether she could be used by other authors: I think I see GeoX's argument re the background drama to the relationship. A story which *depended on* knowing that psychodrama would feel somewhat like fanfic squared. But it seems to me that Matilda could be used as a character without much or any reference to the backstory. She and Scrooge have reconciled (Not to say they won't fight again! But they won't write each other off again...), and she could interact with the whole family (in Duckburg, Scotland or anywhere else) without direct reference to the past. One could throw in a joke about or a reference to the past estrangement for readers who care about those things, as Geoff Blum threw in references to Barksian history. (I realize that's a different *sort* of history; I'm just saying the reference could be thrown in similarly). People who cared would enjoy it, people who didn't could blip over it. I think her personality and her ways of interacting with the others (post-reconciliation) could stand on their own in narratives, without having to have the dramatic backstory explained or known by the reader. From the POV of the non-continuity-concerned reader, I fail to see why including Matilda in such a way would be any more odd than having Rumpus or (sob, shudder) Brigitta in certain stories and not in others.
Lars Jensen 2013-02-27, 18:59:13
There's a question that immediately springs to mind, though. And although I think we've discussed this before, I don't remember if we came up with an answer to that question.
My question is this: Why would I (or any other writer) use Matilda in a story?
Yes, I know Matilda fans and Don Rosa fans would be happy to see her again. But if we look at the stories themselves: what does Matilda bring to a post-reconciliation story that no other existing character can bring?
Look at it this way: imagine if the Beagle Boys showed up on Scrooge's doorstep. They would be trying to steal all or part of Scrooge's fortune.
If Rumpus showed up, he would try to mooch from Scrooge.
If Fethry showed up, he would try to involve Scrooge in another wacky plan to improve people's lives.
Magica would try to steal the Number One Dime.
Etc. etc.
But what would Matilda do if she showed up? What would she want from Scrooge? Alternatively: what would he want from her? Right now, I can't think of anything they want from each other that can be used as a recurring theme. And if Matilda doesn't want anything but is merely Scrooge's Other Sister, she is forever doomed to be a background character at Grandma Duck's Christmas dinners. And then we might as well not use her.
There's a question that immediately springs to mind, though. And although I think we've discussed this before, I don't remember if we came up with an answer to that question.
My question is this: Why would I (or any other writer) use Matilda in a story?
Yes, I know Matilda fans and Don Rosa fans would be happy to see her again. But if we look at the stories themselves: what does Matilda bring to a post-reconciliation story that no other existing character can bring?
Look at it this way: imagine if the Beagle Boys showed up on Scrooge's doorstep. They would be trying to steal all or part of Scrooge's fortune.
If Rumpus showed up, he would try to mooch from Scrooge.
If Fethry showed up, he would try to involve Scrooge in another wacky plan to improve people's lives.
Magica would try to steal the Number One Dime.
Etc. etc.
But what would Matilda do if she showed up? What would she want from Scrooge? Alternatively: what would he want from her? Right now, I can't think of anything they want from each other that can be used as a recurring theme. And if Matilda doesn't want anything but is merely Scrooge's Other Sister, she is forever doomed to be a background character at Grandma Duck's Christmas dinners. And then we might as well not use her.
GeoX 2013-02-27, 19:42:47
I have been thinking about that very question. It must be admitted that, as it stands, there's not a whole lot to go on in terms of Matilda's character. In the L&T, you had the whole "boy-crazy" thing, but I think we can assume that that is no longer operative. And in "The Old Castle's Other Secret," she's basically just defined by her riff with Scrooge. In my mind, there's no question about it: IF you want her to be a flexible, recurring character, it's going to be necessary to make up some additional aspects of her character/background more or less out of whole cloth.
Now, as it happens, I was free-associating about this very topic while I was out running in the wintry mix, and here's what I came up with: Matilda is an archeologist--this based on the rather slim rope that she might have become interested in the topic from looking after the ancestral castle, which could have led her to go back and earn a degree. I think she would mainly teach, but also have some interest in fieldwork. This way, there's a clear reason for her to become involved on occasion with Scrooge's globetrotting. I picture her as being more concerned with the pursuit of knowledge than treasure, and, naturally, more culturally sensitive. This more or less aligns her with HDL and presents an opportunity for some conflict with Scrooge--only she would have more actual power to get in the way of his efforts; there's no uneven power dynamic here, leaving the door open for a kind of relationship that you don't usually see in Disney comics.
Also--as long as we're doing this, we might as well go whole-hog--we can also run with Rosa's notion that she's married to Von Drake; it seems plausible that, in this scenario, they could've met at some sort of academic conference. This would allow her to be used for more a more domestic sort of story. It's easy--for me, at least--to picture a situation where she's constantly having to pull his fat out of the fire in both social and professional/science-oriented situations, with a mixture of affection and exasperation. Seems like you're opening up a lot of possibilities here.
Anyway, take it or leave it, but if this is something that someone WANTED to pursue, I think they profitably could. If anyone has feedback here or wants to provide their own ideas, I'd be very interested to hear.
EDIT: Five hundredth post!
I have been thinking about that very question. It must be admitted that, as it stands, there's not a whole lot to go on in terms of Matilda's character. In the L&T, you had the whole "boy-crazy" thing, but I think we can assume that that is no longer operative. And in "The Old Castle's Other Secret," she's basically just defined by her riff with Scrooge. In my mind, there's no question about it: IF you want her to be a flexible, recurring character, it's going to be necessary to make up some additional aspects of her character/background more or less out of whole cloth.
Now, as it happens, I was free-associating about this very topic while I was out running in the wintry mix, and here's what I came up with: Matilda is an archeologist--this based on the rather slim rope that she might have become interested in the topic from looking after the ancestral castle, which could have led her to go back and earn a degree. I think she would mainly teach, but also have some interest in fieldwork. This way, there's a clear reason for her to become involved on occasion with Scrooge's globetrotting. I picture her as being more concerned with the pursuit of knowledge than treasure, and, naturally, more culturally sensitive. This more or less aligns her with HDL and presents an opportunity for some conflict with Scrooge--only she would have more actual power to get in the way of his efforts; there's no uneven power dynamic here, leaving the door open for a kind of relationship that you don't usually see in Disney comics.
Also--as long as we're doing this, we might as well go whole-hog--we can also run with Rosa's notion that she's married to Von Drake; it seems plausible that, in this scenario, they could've met at some sort of academic conference. This would allow her to be used for more a more domestic sort of story. It's easy--for me, at least--to picture a situation where she's constantly having to pull his fat out of the fire in both social and professional/science-oriented situations, with a mixture of affection and exasperation. Seems like you're opening up a lot of possibilities here.
Anyway, take it or leave it, but if this is something that someone WANTED to pursue, I think they profitably could. If anyone has feedback here or wants to provide their own ideas, I'd be very interested to hear.
EDIT: Five hundredth post!
Dutch Duckfan Down Under 2013-02-27, 21:32:55
Interesting thinking. I don't picture Mathilda as an archeaologist (at least, not the Indiana Jones / Arizona Goof type), because Rosa makes her so old. I mean, technically she's younger than Scrooge, but she feels more like a homebody in Rosa's stor(y/ies?).
Also, this makes me think of some Brigitta stories. She has been on adventures with Scrooge (and sometimes, the boys) and gave it a different perspective.
Exhibit A: The Formula of Fortune
Personally, I'd say that Von Drake convinced her to get that degree in archealogy. But that aside, yes. That way we have another woman in Duckburg that pulls her own weight. And they do sound like the ideal sitcom spouses, don't they?
The addition of Mathilda can make Scrooge a bit more imperialistic in his adventures, which I like. I like it when Scrooge can be a bit of a villain in stories that don't focus on him. Not the 'force Donald to do manual labor for Depression-era wages' type, or the 'beat Donald with a cane if he resists' type, but somebody who might take a huge treasure that isn't completely his. No working with shady types, that's still reserved for Glomgold and Rockerduck. He's got morals, he's just temporarily blinded by all that shiny gold. He needs somebody to keep an eye on him and to keep him in check, such as Donald, the Junior Woodchucks, or Mathilda.
GeoX: Now, as it happens, I was free-associating about this very topic while I was out running in the wintry mix, and here's what I came up with: Matilda is an archeologist--this based on the rather slim rope that she might have become interested in the topic from looking after the ancestral castle, which could have led her to go back and earn a degree. I think she would mainly teach, but also have some interest in fieldwork. This way, there's a clear reason for her to become involved on occasion with Scrooge's globetrotting. I picture her as being more concerned with the pursuit of knowledge than treasure, and, naturally, more culturally sensitive. This more or less aligns her with HDL and presents an opportunity for some conflict with Scrooge--only she would have more actual power to get in the way of his efforts; there's no uneven power dynamic here, leaving the door open for a kind of relationship that you don't usually see in Disney comics.
Interesting thinking. I don't picture Mathilda as an archeaologist (at least, not the Indiana Jones / Arizona Goof type), because Rosa makes her so old. I mean, technically she's younger than Scrooge, but she feels more like a homebody in Rosa's stor(y/ies?).
Also, this makes me think of some Brigitta stories. She has been on adventures with Scrooge (and sometimes, the boys) and gave it a different perspective.
Exhibit A: The Formula of Fortune
GeoX: Also--as long as we're doing this, we might as well go whole-hog--we can also run with Rosa's notion that she's married to Von Drake; it seems plausible that, in this scenario, they could've met at some sort of academic conference. This would allow her to be used for more a more domestic sort of story. It's easy--for me, at least--to picture a situation where she's constantly having to pull his fat out of the fire in both social and professional/science-oriented situations, with a mixture of affection and exasperation. Seems like you're opening up a lot of possibilities here.
Personally, I'd say that Von Drake convinced her to get that degree in archealogy. But that aside, yes. That way we have another woman in Duckburg that pulls her own weight. And they do sound like the ideal sitcom spouses, don't they?
The addition of Mathilda can make Scrooge a bit more imperialistic in his adventures, which I like. I like it when Scrooge can be a bit of a villain in stories that don't focus on him. Not the 'force Donald to do manual labor for Depression-era wages' type, or the 'beat Donald with a cane if he resists' type, but somebody who might take a huge treasure that isn't completely his. No working with shady types, that's still reserved for Glomgold and Rockerduck. He's got morals, he's just temporarily blinded by all that shiny gold. He needs somebody to keep an eye on him and to keep him in check, such as Donald, the Junior Woodchucks, or Mathilda.
Lars Jensen 2013-02-27, 22:07:42
A few years ago, I wrote a lenghty pitch to Egmont about a character who would be an archaeologist and interact with Scrooge pretty much the way you describe. It wasn't Matilda, though, and I'd rather keep the archaeologist bit connected to my mystery character, in case the pitch is ever revived.
Of course, that doesn't prevent anyone else from using Matilda as an archaeologist.
In Disney's 1960s TV cartoons, it was established Ludwig Von Drake is a bachelor. Besides: AFAIK, Egmont writers aren't allowed to use Ludwig.
GeoX :here's what I came up with: Matilda is an archeologist--this based on the rather slim rope that she might have become interested in the topic from looking after the ancestral castle, which could have led her to go back and earn a degree. I think she would mainly teach, but also have some interest in fieldwork. This way, there's a clear reason for her to become involved on occasion with Scrooge's globetrotting. I picture her as being more concerned with the pursuit of knowledge than treasure, and, naturally, more culturally sensitive. This more or less aligns her with HDL and presents an opportunity for some conflict with Scrooge--only she would have more actual power to get in the way of his efforts; there's no uneven power dynamic here, leaving the door open for a kind of relationship that you don't usually see in Disney comics.
A few years ago, I wrote a lenghty pitch to Egmont about a character who would be an archaeologist and interact with Scrooge pretty much the way you describe. It wasn't Matilda, though, and I'd rather keep the archaeologist bit connected to my mystery character, in case the pitch is ever revived.
Of course, that doesn't prevent anyone else from using Matilda as an archaeologist.
GeoX: Also--as long as we're doing this, we might as well go whole-hog--we can also run with Rosa's notion that she's married to Von Drake
In Disney's 1960s TV cartoons, it was established Ludwig Von Drake is a bachelor. Besides: AFAIK, Egmont writers aren't allowed to use Ludwig.
GeoX 2013-02-27, 22:34:46
Yeah, I realized as I was writing that comment that I was describing a female Indiana Jones. It's not my intent that she be some sort of action-hero-y type, but exactly how physically active she should be is really hard to say, since this is all so theoretical. I think it would take some tinkering with actual stories to figure out what worked and what felt weird.
Well, I don't think that we need to take those cartoons as gospel any more than we do Rosa's work. However, if we DID want to try to reconcile them ('cause we're crazy like that), we could perhaps stipulate that the two met later in life, post-cartoon. Also, that would explain why they're childless (not that anyone's morally required to have children in any case, of course).
Well, that's neither here nor there for this sort of idle goofing around. Does seem like a bad rule, though. I like the guy.
Yeah, I realized as I was writing that comment that I was describing a female Indiana Jones. It's not my intent that she be some sort of action-hero-y type, but exactly how physically active she should be is really hard to say, since this is all so theoretical. I think it would take some tinkering with actual stories to figure out what worked and what felt weird.
Lars Jensen: In Disney's 1960s TV cartoons, it was established Ludwig Von Drake is a bachelor.
Lars Jensen: AFAIK, Egmont writers aren't allowed to use Ludwig.
Mr. M 2013-02-27, 22:35:07
I would love if Matilda would be oficialy ben acepted by editors as VonDrakes whife (can You imagine young boy-crazy Matilda chasing after young Von Drake ) The only problem here is how they would expect VonDrake being single all this time...
Just from a fan boy point of view - I wonder when Scrooge meet VonDrake in that one Carl Barks one-pager was he aware VonDrake is his broter in law... Actually it's interesting how they had good relation even if VonDrake know Scrooge and his wif hated each other. How ackward that hadb to be during all the Christmases they share together...
I would love if Matilda would be oficialy ben acepted by editors as VonDrakes whife (can You imagine young boy-crazy Matilda chasing after young Von Drake ) The only problem here is how they would expect VonDrake being single all this time...
Just from a fan boy point of view - I wonder when Scrooge meet VonDrake in that one Carl Barks one-pager was he aware VonDrake is his broter in law... Actually it's interesting how they had good relation even if VonDrake know Scrooge and his wif hated each other. How ackward that hadb to be during all the Christmases they share together...
Matilda 2013-02-28, 03:14:17
I am totally on board with GeoX's suggestions, and they happen to be very like what I have myself imagined, in my own personal Duckiverse. I have decided that Matilda is an academic, partly because that's one of the few areas where a woman could do something interesting in that era. (That, and journalism.) Two possible fields to give her world travel possilibilities: archaeologist or primatologist. Sometimes I like to imagine her as a Leakey girl (Jane Goodall, Birute Galdikas, Dian Fossey). But a career in archaeology would perhaps provide for more possible interactions with Scrooge in his treasure-seeking. I agree that her interaction with him in such settings could portray a relatively equal power dynamic, which would be welcome, and that it could play out interpersonally the issues that the comics have become more aware of since the 1960's. It would be fun for her to be an ally for HDL in their concern for culture, environment, history, etc. In fact, one could even imagine that her alienation from Scrooge was one of the motivating factors for her to get a degree in archaeology, since she was aware of his treasure-seeking attitude towards cultural artifacts, and wanted to stake out an opposing position on higher moral ground.
I also personally have thought of her as married to Ludwig ever since I first read Rosa's suggestion to that effect. In many marriages of two academics in my experience, the two partners spend a fair amount of time apart (some of these are commuting marriages, because how many couples find two tenure-track jobs in the same metropolitan area?), sabbaticals and so on, so the fact that you'll often see one without the other doesn't disturb my sense that they got married (as GeoX says, they could also have married rather late in life). One could assume they are married and still let them operate as independent individuals on expeditions or whatever. At the same time, I agree that their relationship also has lots of comic/dramatic possibilites in stories where they would both appear.
But I'd be happy to have Matilda the archaeologist appear in stories without having her married to LVD, too.
Couldn't she have gotten her degree and have started her work in her field before A Letter from Home? I don't think her serving as the caretaker of Castle McDuck necessarily precludes that. She could live at the castle and still be working at some Scottish university, or doing scholarly research. It seems to me that she is a bit old to start her degree work after A Letter from Home: 70ish. Not that that should stop her from globetrotting! Grandma Duck is way more of a homebody than Matilda, and older besides, and even she believably did some globetrotting in the wonderful story "Bananas."
I am totally on board with GeoX's suggestions, and they happen to be very like what I have myself imagined, in my own personal Duckiverse. I have decided that Matilda is an academic, partly because that's one of the few areas where a woman could do something interesting in that era. (That, and journalism.) Two possible fields to give her world travel possilibilities: archaeologist or primatologist. Sometimes I like to imagine her as a Leakey girl (Jane Goodall, Birute Galdikas, Dian Fossey). But a career in archaeology would perhaps provide for more possible interactions with Scrooge in his treasure-seeking. I agree that her interaction with him in such settings could portray a relatively equal power dynamic, which would be welcome, and that it could play out interpersonally the issues that the comics have become more aware of since the 1960's. It would be fun for her to be an ally for HDL in their concern for culture, environment, history, etc. In fact, one could even imagine that her alienation from Scrooge was one of the motivating factors for her to get a degree in archaeology, since she was aware of his treasure-seeking attitude towards cultural artifacts, and wanted to stake out an opposing position on higher moral ground.
I also personally have thought of her as married to Ludwig ever since I first read Rosa's suggestion to that effect. In many marriages of two academics in my experience, the two partners spend a fair amount of time apart (some of these are commuting marriages, because how many couples find two tenure-track jobs in the same metropolitan area?), sabbaticals and so on, so the fact that you'll often see one without the other doesn't disturb my sense that they got married (as GeoX says, they could also have married rather late in life). One could assume they are married and still let them operate as independent individuals on expeditions or whatever. At the same time, I agree that their relationship also has lots of comic/dramatic possibilites in stories where they would both appear.
But I'd be happy to have Matilda the archaeologist appear in stories without having her married to LVD, too.
Couldn't she have gotten her degree and have started her work in her field before A Letter from Home? I don't think her serving as the caretaker of Castle McDuck necessarily precludes that. She could live at the castle and still be working at some Scottish university, or doing scholarly research. It seems to me that she is a bit old to start her degree work after A Letter from Home: 70ish. Not that that should stop her from globetrotting! Grandma Duck is way more of a homebody than Matilda, and older besides, and even she believably did some globetrotting in the wonderful story "Bananas."
Baar Baar Jinx 2013-02-28, 04:04:51
Matilda: First, on the plausibility of Rosa's storyline: I find it perfectly believable that Matilda's deep alienation from Scrooge would last till A Letter from Home, and that this alienation would keep her from visiting Duckburg. She *has* stayed in letter-contact with Donald, but her wish to keep it secret that she's the castle caretaker in order to keep distance from Scrooge (so she had sworn Donald to secrecy on that) is enough explanation for HDL not knowing about her. That would not be believable if they were her grandsons, but I think it is believable given that they are her grandnephews. And therefore, it is reasonable (for people who care about such things) for her to show up in stories when there are loads of past stories (incl. holiday gatherings et al.) at which she did not appear. We can just assume these new stories take place after A Letter from Home, and all the other stories took place before it.
As to her proposed desire to keep the fact that she is the new caretaker of Castle McDuck after Scottie's death (and the dismissal of the imposter Diamond Dick) a secret from Scrooge, fine, but where was she before she took that position? Why not reveal her existence to HD&L before that, and visit her family in Duckburg? One has to perform a lot of contorting to accept Rosa's own back story for this character (who, like Hortense, is at this point a purely Rosa character). I agree that "Letter from Home" is a great story, but the revelation that Matilda was alive all along bothers me as a Duck fan who does desire some degree of continuity (although I seem to be in the minority here). I believe I read that Rosa even wanted Hortense to be in that story, but his editors shot him down. That would have complicated matters even further!
Matilda: From the POV of the non-continuity-concerned reader, I fail to see why including Matilda in such a way would be any more odd than having Rumpus or (sob, shudder) Brigitta in certain stories and not in others.
Matilda: But I'd be happy to have Matilda the archaeologist appear in stories without having her married to LVD, too.
Personally I always liked the idea of Von Drake as a lifelong bachelor ... seems fitting for his personality somehow. Also, if Matilda were married to Von Drake, how could she keep her whereabouts a secret from Scrooge and her existence a secret from HD&L (all of whom presumably interact with von Drake on a semi-regular basis)?
GeoX 2013-02-28, 04:42:55
Well, maybe because one is interested in the brother-sister dynamic. But, more broadly, it seems to me that this entire argument is predicated on one liking Rosa's universe. If one doesn't, then one probably isn't going to care about this question.
Baar Baar Jinx: But again, as others have pointed out, the only reason to do that would be if one wanted to adopt this Rosa-created character wholesale, as is, into the mainstream Duck universe. For those who do not believe Rosa's universe is any more valid than, say, Scarpa's, why use her as an archeologist, rather than create a new character to fill that role?
Matilda 2013-02-28, 06:47:23
You're right, Baar Baar Jinx, that Matilda's desire to conceal her position at the castle from Scrooge isn't enough to explain why HD&L don't know where she is before she takes that position. Part of why it's hard for Rosa or anyone to explain the family history coherently in a comic, of course, is that we are usually prevented from discussing characters' deaths, and there are four untimely deaths/disappearances here that have to be part of the story.
Given Scrooge's business prominence in Duckburg, I do think it's understandable that his sisters would want to leave Duckburg when they get fed up with him (as Rosa has Matilda say in Letter from Home). Hortense and Quackmore brought up Donald and Della until whenever it was they (H&Q) died, separately or together, at least by the time D&D were young adults. Donald at some point moves alone back to Duckburg. Della marries Mystery Duck, has HD&L, then both she and Mystery Duck die or (as Rosa hinted) disappear off the map in the vicinity of Tralla La, and HD&L come to live with Donald. At some point, Matilda moves back to Scotland. If that happens earlier than The Old Castle's Secret (after which she takes over as castle caretaker), just the distance itself is probably enough explanation for her not visiting Duckburg and HD&L not recognizing her; she doesn't have Scrooge's money to fly from Scotland to Calisota for Christmas. (And such travel was a bigger deal in the 1950's.) Alternatively, she could have been somewhere else far from Duckburg (in college, working at a job involving travel, watching chimps in Africa). She does stay in contact with Donald by letter. This accords well enough for me with Rosa's Letter from Home, especially considering that he couldn't insert into HD&L's dialogue with Matilda a whole elaborate history of how much they knew when and why, and given that HD&L serve as useful surrogates for the reader in their ignorance of who Matilda is and where she has been. And if we think of HD&L as being about 8 when they come to Donald, and about 10 or 11 during most of the adventures with Scrooge, I would contend that eight-year-old boys are not terribly interested in the existence of a great-aunt who lives far away, and might not register anything Donald would say about her. They would get more interested, though, as they become JWs, get interested in history, and get to know Scrooge on their adventures.
Why use her at all? Well, if you prefer to think that she also died quite a while ago, that's certainly your prerogative. Or if you prefer to think she never existed at all, for that matter (since for Barks she was just a name on a scribbled family tree). I like the idea of Scrooge having a living sister with whom he interacts. As GeoX points out, it would be a different dynamic than any of those we've seen in the stories, especially for Scrooge himself, but also in general (no other adult siblings, as far as I'm aware). It would be cool to have a female character who could stand up to Scrooge, challenge him when necessary, and still touch him emotionally on the basis of shared memories of childhood and of their parents. I like the idea of Donald and HD&L having another living source for memories of Scrooge's family of origin, including Hortense. And I generally want more strong, continuing female characters in the Duck comics. I want Belle Duck, too, and Madam Mim living in the Black Forest, and Dickie is fine with me, too. If someone wants to bring Ducky Bird (from Ghost Town Railroad) to Duckburg for a rodeo, so she can investigate some horsey mystery with HD&L, I'd welcome that as well.
It's certainly true that having Matilda married to LVD makes for more problems of the "why so-and-so didn't know about her" variety. I know that Rosa only originally came up with the idea because there was no other way on his (built on Barks') family tree for LVD to be Donald's uncle...and Rosa actually likes LVD much more than Barks did. He would have included him more in his stories if his editors had let him. I do think one could keep the Barks/Rosa tree and have LVD be Donald's "uncle" in some looser sense. I don't have a strong commitment to the idea that Matilda and LVD are married. But I do think it could make for some fun stories.
You're right, Baar Baar Jinx, that Matilda's desire to conceal her position at the castle from Scrooge isn't enough to explain why HD&L don't know where she is before she takes that position. Part of why it's hard for Rosa or anyone to explain the family history coherently in a comic, of course, is that we are usually prevented from discussing characters' deaths, and there are four untimely deaths/disappearances here that have to be part of the story.
Given Scrooge's business prominence in Duckburg, I do think it's understandable that his sisters would want to leave Duckburg when they get fed up with him (as Rosa has Matilda say in Letter from Home). Hortense and Quackmore brought up Donald and Della until whenever it was they (H&Q) died, separately or together, at least by the time D&D were young adults. Donald at some point moves alone back to Duckburg. Della marries Mystery Duck, has HD&L, then both she and Mystery Duck die or (as Rosa hinted) disappear off the map in the vicinity of Tralla La, and HD&L come to live with Donald. At some point, Matilda moves back to Scotland. If that happens earlier than The Old Castle's Secret (after which she takes over as castle caretaker), just the distance itself is probably enough explanation for her not visiting Duckburg and HD&L not recognizing her; she doesn't have Scrooge's money to fly from Scotland to Calisota for Christmas. (And such travel was a bigger deal in the 1950's.) Alternatively, she could have been somewhere else far from Duckburg (in college, working at a job involving travel, watching chimps in Africa). She does stay in contact with Donald by letter. This accords well enough for me with Rosa's Letter from Home, especially considering that he couldn't insert into HD&L's dialogue with Matilda a whole elaborate history of how much they knew when and why, and given that HD&L serve as useful surrogates for the reader in their ignorance of who Matilda is and where she has been. And if we think of HD&L as being about 8 when they come to Donald, and about 10 or 11 during most of the adventures with Scrooge, I would contend that eight-year-old boys are not terribly interested in the existence of a great-aunt who lives far away, and might not register anything Donald would say about her. They would get more interested, though, as they become JWs, get interested in history, and get to know Scrooge on their adventures.
Why use her at all? Well, if you prefer to think that she also died quite a while ago, that's certainly your prerogative. Or if you prefer to think she never existed at all, for that matter (since for Barks she was just a name on a scribbled family tree). I like the idea of Scrooge having a living sister with whom he interacts. As GeoX points out, it would be a different dynamic than any of those we've seen in the stories, especially for Scrooge himself, but also in general (no other adult siblings, as far as I'm aware). It would be cool to have a female character who could stand up to Scrooge, challenge him when necessary, and still touch him emotionally on the basis of shared memories of childhood and of their parents. I like the idea of Donald and HD&L having another living source for memories of Scrooge's family of origin, including Hortense. And I generally want more strong, continuing female characters in the Duck comics. I want Belle Duck, too, and Madam Mim living in the Black Forest, and Dickie is fine with me, too. If someone wants to bring Ducky Bird (from Ghost Town Railroad) to Duckburg for a rodeo, so she can investigate some horsey mystery with HD&L, I'd welcome that as well.
It's certainly true that having Matilda married to LVD makes for more problems of the "why so-and-so didn't know about her" variety. I know that Rosa only originally came up with the idea because there was no other way on his (built on Barks') family tree for LVD to be Donald's uncle...and Rosa actually likes LVD much more than Barks did. He would have included him more in his stories if his editors had let him. I do think one could keep the Barks/Rosa tree and have LVD be Donald's "uncle" in some looser sense. I don't have a strong commitment to the idea that Matilda and LVD are married. But I do think it could make for some fun stories.
Opel Rekord1985 2013-02-28, 12:56:05
Thank you Matilda, you bring up really good points, I'm with you on that it would be fun that Scrooge has one living sister, and you could explain her absence like you did above.
Thank you Matilda, you bring up really good points, I'm with you on that it would be fun that Scrooge has one living sister, and you could explain her absence like you did above.
Matilda 2013-02-28, 15:49:33
I just checked Inducks for Matilda stories, and I found that Byron Erickson recently wrote a Christmas story, "Donald's Homemade Christmas," in which she and the other members of Scrooge's family of origin appear. It's #3 of a series of stories about Donald's being obsessed with recovering/practicing various Christmas traditions (I have the first). I'm going to order this third story, but it'll take weeks to get here. Does anyone happen to know whether Donald and HD&L interact with Matilda *in the present* in this story? Or does she just appear in the past in flashbacks based on Scrooge's memories? Obviously there are flashbacks based on either Scrooge's or Matilda's memories, if the other members of the family (Downy, Fergus, Hortense) appear.
I just checked Inducks for Matilda stories, and I found that Byron Erickson recently wrote a Christmas story, "Donald's Homemade Christmas," in which she and the other members of Scrooge's family of origin appear. It's #3 of a series of stories about Donald's being obsessed with recovering/practicing various Christmas traditions (I have the first). I'm going to order this third story, but it'll take weeks to get here. Does anyone happen to know whether Donald and HD&L interact with Matilda *in the present* in this story? Or does she just appear in the past in flashbacks based on Scrooge's memories? Obviously there are flashbacks based on either Scrooge's or Matilda's memories, if the other members of the family (Downy, Fergus, Hortense) appear.
Mr. M 2013-02-28, 17:28:03
I fear it would be tricky to make Matilda not a "less interesting Grandma duck" but I think a good writer could make her work in a interesting way...
I fear it would be tricky to make Matilda not a "less interesting Grandma duck" but I think a good writer could make her work in a interesting way...
Matilda 2013-02-28, 17:39:36
I should have noted earlier that there are loads of European stories in which Scrooge and Grandma Duck are assumed to be siblings. But I fear that my commitment to the Barks/Rosa family tree makes those stories unreal to me (and I haven't read that many of them). Even though I often enjoy and re-read stories which don't fit into the mostly-aligned-with-Rosa Duckburg I believe in, I just can't give credence to a story that makes Grandma Duck a transplanted Scot. (The one exception: the aforementioned "Bananas," which does assume GD and Scrooge are siblings....but I can mentally re-script it to avoid that aspect.)
I should have noted earlier that there are loads of European stories in which Scrooge and Grandma Duck are assumed to be siblings. But I fear that my commitment to the Barks/Rosa family tree makes those stories unreal to me (and I haven't read that many of them). Even though I often enjoy and re-read stories which don't fit into the mostly-aligned-with-Rosa Duckburg I believe in, I just can't give credence to a story that makes Grandma Duck a transplanted Scot. (The one exception: the aforementioned "Bananas," which does assume GD and Scrooge are siblings....but I can mentally re-script it to avoid that aspect.)
Baar Baar Jinx 2013-02-28, 17:43:11
Regardless of whether Matilda appears "in the present" or in flashback, this seems to represent the first use of Scrooge's family of orgin unconnected to the work of Rosa.
Matilda: I just checked Inducks for Matilda stories, and I found that Byron Erickson recently wrote a Christmas story, "Donald's Homemade Christmas," in which she and the other members of Scrooge's family of origin appear. It's #3 of a series of stories about Donald's being obsessed with recovering/practicing various Christmas traditions (I have the first). I'm going to order this third story, but it'll take weeks to get here. Does anyone happen to know whether Donald and HD&L interact with Matilda *in the present* in this story? Or does she just appear in the past in flashbacks based on Scrooge's memories? Obviously there are flashbacks based on either Scrooge's or Matilda's memories, if the other members of the family (Downy, Fergus, Hortense) appear.
Mr. M 2013-03-04, 23:30:15
I shall awnser this Puzzling question :
You can see the picture of Young Matilda from the story here (the very last one ) :
coa.inducks.org/character.php?c=Matilda%20McDuck&view=2
Hortense (who appears to be in-character with Rosa version ) :
coa.inducks.org/character.php?c=Hortense%20McDuck&view=2
Fergus :
coa.inducks.org/character.php?c=Fergus%20McDuck&view=2
Downy O'Drake (more dirty then usual) :
coa.inducks.org/character.php?c=Downy%20O'Drake&view=2
and Rosa-style little Scrooge here
(no Jake McDuck at the Christmas party, ey?)
So we can safly say Scrooges sisters (& parents) will only appear in a flashback. Still it great to see Rosa-continiutiy use by other artits...
Matilda: I just checked Inducks for Matilda stories, and I found that Byron Erickson recently wrote a Christmas story, "Donald's Homemade Christmas," in which she and the other members of Scrooge's family of origin appear. It's #3 of a series of stories about Donald's being obsessed with recovering/practicing various Christmas traditions (I have the first). I'm going to order this third story, but it'll take weeks to get here. Does anyone happen to know whether Donald and HD&L interact with Matilda *in the present* in this story? Or does she just appear in the past in flashbacks based on Scrooge's memories? Obviously there are flashbacks based on either Scrooge's or Matilda's memories, if the other members of the family (Downy, Fergus, Hortense) appear.
I shall awnser this Puzzling question :
You can see the picture of Young Matilda from the story here (the very last one ) :
coa.inducks.org/character.php?c=Matilda%20McDuck&view=2
Hortense (who appears to be in-character with Rosa version ) :
coa.inducks.org/character.php?c=Hortense%20McDuck&view=2
Fergus :
coa.inducks.org/character.php?c=Fergus%20McDuck&view=2
Downy O'Drake (more dirty then usual) :
coa.inducks.org/character.php?c=Downy%20O'Drake&view=2
and Rosa-style little Scrooge here
(no Jake McDuck at the Christmas party, ey?)
So we can safly say Scrooges sisters (& parents) will only appear in a flashback. Still it great to see Rosa-continiutiy use by other artits...
Matilda 2013-03-05, 02:18:19
Thanks, Mr. M! I'm definitely looking forward to seeing the story when it finally gets here. As you say, it's great to have other writers/artists using Rosa's version of the characters. It's funny, I believe that some time ago on GeoX's blog I wrote that I'd really love to see a Christmas in Scrooge's childhood in Scotland...and now it appears! (It's true that in my next post I admitted that people didn't actually celebrate Christmas in 19th-century Scotland...just Hogmanay, and that was hardly a family-friendly holiday. But hey, though Rosa would doubtless research that and feel bound to the historical setting, I don't expect that of other writers! And it's possible that while Erickson uses Rosa's McDucks, he might not feel bound to Rosa's timeline, so Scrooge's childhood might not be set in the 19th century. In other stories Erickson has certainly set the Ducks in the present (present at the time of writing--e.g. computers in The Lost Treasure of Cornelius Coot).
I note that Matilda may have reddish hair in this coloring. In the American edition of the L&T, Matilda is a blonde and Hortense is a redhead (red hair being culturally associated with temper). I have the Danish edition of the L&T, and in that, Hortense is a blonde and Matilda is a redhead (well, not bright orange, but auburn).
Thanks, Mr. M! I'm definitely looking forward to seeing the story when it finally gets here. As you say, it's great to have other writers/artists using Rosa's version of the characters. It's funny, I believe that some time ago on GeoX's blog I wrote that I'd really love to see a Christmas in Scrooge's childhood in Scotland...and now it appears! (It's true that in my next post I admitted that people didn't actually celebrate Christmas in 19th-century Scotland...just Hogmanay, and that was hardly a family-friendly holiday. But hey, though Rosa would doubtless research that and feel bound to the historical setting, I don't expect that of other writers! And it's possible that while Erickson uses Rosa's McDucks, he might not feel bound to Rosa's timeline, so Scrooge's childhood might not be set in the 19th century. In other stories Erickson has certainly set the Ducks in the present (present at the time of writing--e.g. computers in The Lost Treasure of Cornelius Coot).
I note that Matilda may have reddish hair in this coloring. In the American edition of the L&T, Matilda is a blonde and Hortense is a redhead (red hair being culturally associated with temper). I have the Danish edition of the L&T, and in that, Hortense is a blonde and Matilda is a redhead (well, not bright orange, but auburn).
Opel Rekord1985 2013-03-06, 14:27:48
That's great, thank you so much.
That's great, thank you so much.
Matilda 2013-03-14, 22:02:14
Ha! Byron Erickson did indeed stick to the historical facts of Christmas in Scotland, which is to say, there wasn't any until comparatively recently (long after Scrooge's childhood). In the story "Donald's Homemade Christmas" there is a flashback via Scrooge's memory/tale of Scrooge's childhood. Scrooge has told Donald that Christmas was forbidden for centuries in Scotland, and that they only had Hogmanay, which did not involve presents for children. But! One day when young Scrooge is shining the shoes of Americans, they are talking about Christmas in London and at home, and Scrooge then asks his parents for a Christmas celebration. They don't have much money for gifts, but they get a tree, and Downy makes dolls for the two girls and Fergus makes a money box out of a cigar box for Scrooge (to hold the money he's making shining shoes). That's the flashback (just over one page), and it inspires Donald to insist on homemade presents all around this year.
So, not much to the flashback, but I am chuffed that Erickson stuck to the facts and didn't give us a Scottish Christmas, and that he (and the artist) presented Scrooge's family consistently with Rosa's timeline (so we Rosa fans can accept this as Scrooge's childhood in the 19th century), and that despite the historical challenge he came up with such a clever and satisfying way to provide Scrooge and his sisters with a childhood Christmas. Plus, psychologically I'm attracted to the idea (my own, the story doesn't explicitly suggest this) that the money bin might play such a huge role in Scrooge's life not only because it holds his precious money, but also because it bears a certain continuity of function with his father's handmade gift to him, the only Christmas gift he received in childhood.
Ha! Byron Erickson did indeed stick to the historical facts of Christmas in Scotland, which is to say, there wasn't any until comparatively recently (long after Scrooge's childhood). In the story "Donald's Homemade Christmas" there is a flashback via Scrooge's memory/tale of Scrooge's childhood. Scrooge has told Donald that Christmas was forbidden for centuries in Scotland, and that they only had Hogmanay, which did not involve presents for children. But! One day when young Scrooge is shining the shoes of Americans, they are talking about Christmas in London and at home, and Scrooge then asks his parents for a Christmas celebration. They don't have much money for gifts, but they get a tree, and Downy makes dolls for the two girls and Fergus makes a money box out of a cigar box for Scrooge (to hold the money he's making shining shoes). That's the flashback (just over one page), and it inspires Donald to insist on homemade presents all around this year.
So, not much to the flashback, but I am chuffed that Erickson stuck to the facts and didn't give us a Scottish Christmas, and that he (and the artist) presented Scrooge's family consistently with Rosa's timeline (so we Rosa fans can accept this as Scrooge's childhood in the 19th century), and that despite the historical challenge he came up with such a clever and satisfying way to provide Scrooge and his sisters with a childhood Christmas. Plus, psychologically I'm attracted to the idea (my own, the story doesn't explicitly suggest this) that the money bin might play such a huge role in Scrooge's life not only because it holds his precious money, but also because it bears a certain continuity of function with his father's handmade gift to him, the only Christmas gift he received in childhood.
Mr. M 2013-03-14, 22:58:53
Thanks Matilda
Boy, thats sad. Did they explain historical conetxt *WHY* it was forbiden?
I asuming that Jake McDuch is 100% ignore in this story...
Interesting. Rosa never gave us explenation how Scrooge got the idea for the Money Bin. This one sounds like a good one
Thanks Matilda
Matilda: Scrooge has told Donald that Christmas was forbidden for centuries in Scotland,
I asuming that Jake McDuch is 100% ignore in this story...
Matilda: Plus, psychologically I'm attracted to the idea (my own, the story doesn't explicitly suggest this) that the money bin might play such a huge role in Scrooge's life not only because it holds his precious money, but also because it bears a certain continuity of function with his father's handmade gift to him, the only Christmas gift he received in childhood.
Matilda 2013-03-15, 00:54:39
Mr. M, they do not explain why Christmas was forbidden. I assume that's because it was forbidden for religious reasons; the Calvinist/Presbyterian state church of Scotland was against the celebration of Christmas. And Disney comics try to stay away from matters of religious belief/practice. Of course the Puritans who were the first European settlers in New England were religiously opposed to celebrating Christmas (and any other particular festival), too.
And yes, Jake is unmentioned. But there's no reason to expect that other relatives would be involved, given that Christmas was *not* a family holiday in Scotland, and the only reason that Scrooge's immediate family celebrates it this once is to satisfy his childish wish.
I think Barks sufficiently explained the origin of the money bin as a necessary storage venue for all that cash...but I still think that this association with his father's gift could help explain Scrooge's emotional investment in the bin itself. His father's gift, of course, is also just a symbolic reinforcement of the family (and generally Scottish, in a stereotype with some grounding in reality) value placed on SAVING money.
Mr. M, they do not explain why Christmas was forbidden. I assume that's because it was forbidden for religious reasons; the Calvinist/Presbyterian state church of Scotland was against the celebration of Christmas. And Disney comics try to stay away from matters of religious belief/practice. Of course the Puritans who were the first European settlers in New England were religiously opposed to celebrating Christmas (and any other particular festival), too.
And yes, Jake is unmentioned. But there's no reason to expect that other relatives would be involved, given that Christmas was *not* a family holiday in Scotland, and the only reason that Scrooge's immediate family celebrates it this once is to satisfy his childish wish.
I think Barks sufficiently explained the origin of the money bin as a necessary storage venue for all that cash...but I still think that this association with his father's gift could help explain Scrooge's emotional investment in the bin itself. His father's gift, of course, is also just a symbolic reinforcement of the family (and generally Scottish, in a stereotype with some grounding in reality) value placed on SAVING money.
Review Or Die 2013-03-15, 01:55:46
It was the "do you want a whole coal bin full of the stuff?" line from Chapter 2 that planted the seeds.
Mr. M: Interesting. Rosa never gave us explenation how Scrooge got the idea for the Money Bin. This one sounds like a good one
Baar Baar Jinx 2013-03-16, 14:15:40
He should have been around during the aforementioned flashback, but I don't think we really know what exactly became of Jake McDuck. He just disappears at some point during the L&T timeline, with no clear explanation of his fate. Was Rosa saving this storyline for an additional chapter he never had the chance to write? I'm convinced Scrooge knew his Uncle Jake was dead when Donald tried to impersonate him in "A Christmas for Shacktown". Scrooge must have seen right through Donald's disguise, and the loan he mentions may never have happened. Shoddy homework on Donald's part.
Yes, but that was a humorous origin, based on a throwaway line by a second-rung character. The idea that Scrooge subconsciously sees his money bin as a connection to a childhood gift from his father is much more emotionally fulfilling, if you like that sort of thing.
Mr. M: I asuming that Jake McDuch is 100% ignore in this story...
He should have been around during the aforementioned flashback, but I don't think we really know what exactly became of Jake McDuck. He just disappears at some point during the L&T timeline, with no clear explanation of his fate. Was Rosa saving this storyline for an additional chapter he never had the chance to write? I'm convinced Scrooge knew his Uncle Jake was dead when Donald tried to impersonate him in "A Christmas for Shacktown". Scrooge must have seen right through Donald's disguise, and the loan he mentions may never have happened. Shoddy homework on Donald's part.
Review Or Die: It was the "do you want a whole coal bin full of the stuff?" line from Chapter 2 that planted the seeds.
Yes, but that was a humorous origin, based on a throwaway line by a second-rung character. The idea that Scrooge subconsciously sees his money bin as a connection to a childhood gift from his father is much more emotionally fulfilling, if you like that sort of thing.
Dutch Duckfan Down Under 2013-03-16, 14:58:19
Yes, he did. In chapter 1 of L&T, they are seen as all living under the same roof. (Also in the memories at the end of chapter 11.) It's implied that the McDucks took permament residence in the castle in 1885, after the events of chapter 5. Jake is last seen in 1896, at the beginning of chapter 7, but is mysteriously absent when Scrooge returns 6 years later, in chapter 9. Scrooge doesn't mention him when visiting his mother's grave.Technically, he could have lived on his own after Scrooge went to America. Note that he's absent from the flashbacks in "A Letter From Home". But it seems unlikely that they wouldn't celebrate Christmas/Hogmanay together.
Mr. M: Than agian... Did Rosa stories mentioned in any way that Jake was living in the same house as other McDuck? He could very well live on his own and drop a visit once a while, so him being apstent during this small private Christmas celebration would make sence...
Yes, he did. In chapter 1 of L&T, they are seen as all living under the same roof. (Also in the memories at the end of chapter 11.) It's implied that the McDucks took permament residence in the castle in 1885, after the events of chapter 5. Jake is last seen in 1896, at the beginning of chapter 7, but is mysteriously absent when Scrooge returns 6 years later, in chapter 9. Scrooge doesn't mention him when visiting his mother's grave.Technically, he could have lived on his own after Scrooge went to America. Note that he's absent from the flashbacks in "A Letter From Home". But it seems unlikely that they wouldn't celebrate Christmas/Hogmanay together.