The one-pagers were all indexed in advance (for future publication). I find it kind of confusing, but apparently the Dutch stories are indexed long before they appear in any issue. Those two "Young Donald" gags we've seen so far were published in the first two issues of 2017; the rest will (presumably) be published throughout 2017.
I guess they are indexed by the authors or the producers then, as I don't see how readers can index them some two months before their publication.
Those one-pagers that have already been indexed in advance include ones titled "Donald's first driving lesson" and "Donald's first pop concert", so Donald probably does age.
We'll wait and see. Will you will keep us updated on any news of this series?
As for Gertrude Gadwall's appearance--she is never mentioned in the story, we just see her picture in GD's living room. "The Future Farmer" refers to Gyro Gearloose's invention.
Thanks for the info. I had this idea that the title could refer to a young Grandma, which would explain why the author felt the need to show a photo of her mother, but I knew I could be wrong.
This is a similar case to this story showing a picture of Luke Goose (though again Inducks forgot to list him).
Drakeborough wrote: I also think Hortense and Quackmore raised Donald and Della into adulthood. I can't decide if they are alive or dead, as "A Letter from Home" doesn't specify this, but I wish the editor would have allowed Don to use them in that story. Anyway, if they died in the late 1940's or in the 1950's, I prefer to think of them dying of natural causes (people's lifespans were shorter back then on average, not everyone could live up to 100 like Scrooge) rather than in an accident.
And speaking of editors: what's the deal with Della being allowed to appear with young Donald in the recent Dutch 1-pagers but Hortense and Quackmore being denied that ? The reasoning behind this really puzzles me. (end quote)
On lifespans: isn't it true that the major change in average lifespan comes from the decline in infant and child mortality? So it would be pretty uncommon in the mid-20th century USA for two adults to die of natural causes in their late 40's or early 50's. (When does Rosa say Hortense was born?) Average US life expectancy for those born in 1900 was 47. However, if you were born in 1900 and lived past the age of ten, you were likely to make it at least to 60, I believe (though I can't figure out how to get stats on this quickly).
On the editors' nixing the appearance of Hortense and Quackmore...my guess is that they didn't want to get children invested in the characters of Hortense and Quackmore and then beginning to ask questions about what happened to them, since we can't deal with death in Disney comics. True, any child would be aware that Donald and Della must have had parents at some point. But if they never appear, they may be presumed to have disappeared/died when D&D were infants, and "out of sight, out of mind," in theory. We don't have to deal with death when it predates the stories we read. The world of children's lit is full of orphans, and rarely do those orphans actually grieve for the dead parents. They might as well never have existed, except to produce the child.
It's also possible that they didn't want to directly contradict the theory that Donald was raised by Grandma Duck ("This Is Your Life, Donald Duck" and the Donny Duckling stories). Though it's true that those stories are somewhat contradicted even by the introduction of Della as Donald's sister who grew up with him!
Those one-pagers that have already been indexed in advance include ones titled "Donald's first driving lesson" and "Donald's first pop concert", so Donald probably does age.
We'll wait and see. Will you will keep us updated on any news of this series?
Sure! One thing that seems predictable about the series already, is that a younger Uncle Scrooge may appear. I see that one of the already-indexed one-pagers has to do with Donald receiving a lesson on money ("Donald's eerste geldles"= "Donald's first lesson on money").
On lifespans: isn't it true that the major change in average lifespan comes from the decline in infant and child mortality? So it would be pretty uncommon in the mid-20th century USA for two adults to die of natural causes in their late 40's or early 50's. (When does Rosa say Hortense was born?) Average US life expectancy for those born in 1900 was 47. However, if you were born in 1900 and lived past the age of ten, you were likely to make it at least to 60, I believe (though I can't figure out how to get stats on this quickly).
I'm not an expert on lifespans, but this Wikipedia article about life expectancy seems well-written.
According to Rosa's timeline (which can be seen here, though the dates of birth of Scrooge's parents have since changed) Hortense was born in 1876, meaning she would be 71 at the time of "Life and Times" part 12. Quackmore would be an year older of her, though the legend says dates ending in 0 or 5 may be approximated.
On the editors' nixing the appearance of Hortense and Quackmore...my guess is that they didn't want to get children invested in the characters of Hortense and Quackmore and then beginning to ask questions about what happened to them, since we can't deal with death in Disney comics. True, any child would be aware that Donald and Della must have had parents at some point. But if they never appear, they may be presumed to have disappeared/died when D&D were infants, and "out of sight, out of mind," in theory. We don't have to deal with death when it predates the stories we read. The world of children's lit is full of orphans, and rarely do those orphans actually grieve for the dead parents. They might as well never have existed, except to produce the child.
Indeed, that is more or less the reason reported by Don Rosa in this 2003 message and then repeated many times in the following years (note that the linked message was written before the publication of "A Letter from Home", as Don was still working of it):
And yes, it does tell of the return of $crooge's sister Matilda whom (in my version of things) $crooge has not seen since she left Duckburg in disgust with him nearly 25 years earlier (1930). The story was originally intended to also feature Hortense with whom Matilda always seemed to act as a duo, but I was told by Egmont that I could not ever use Hortense in a current-time story and that she must be considered "deceased" -- this is because there could never be a suitable reason why she would have stayed away from her own children Donald and Della since their childhood.
Of course, Egmont's reasoning doesn't make any sense: if Donald had contact with Matilda off-screen, he could also have had contact with Hortense off-screen. The reasoning would only make sense if the editors were thinking of the Donny Duckling (Paperino Paperotto) series, of which many stories have been produced by Egmont since 2000 (two years after the series started in Italy), which would explain that otherwise puzzling "she would have stayed away from her own children Donald and Della since their childhood". But if Donny Duckling is out of the picture, then there is no reason to assume she "stayed away" from Donald: the man is an adult, and it's no strange at all than a mother and her adult son live in different cities or even different continents.
This is what Egmont should have thought in my opinion, and I wish (well, dreaming is free) Don Rosa stood his ground, threatening to give the story to another publisher if they didn't stop this nonsense about Hortense not being allowed, since at that point of his career no other publisher would have refused a story by him. After all, it already happened with "The Coin", "Attaaack!" and "The Sharpie of the Culebra Cut": Egmont didn't want those stories, so Don sold them to the French Picsou Magazine (of course Egmont later used these stories, as they were free).
This is probably wrong, but I also wonder if there is a deeper reason behind "A Letter from Home" not explicitly telling that Hortense is dead: maybe Don still thought Egmont editors would change their minds sometimes later and letting him use Hortense in a future story? After all, the whole reason he was able to use Matilda is that he never said she was dead even though that was his opinion while working on "Life and Times".
It's also possible that they didn't want to directly contradict the theory that Donald was raised by Grandma Duck ("This Is Your Life, Donald Duck" and the Donny Duckling stories). Though it's true that those stories are somewhat contradicted even by the introduction of Della as Donald's sister who grew up with him!
Oh, that's what I get from answering bits of messages without reading them all first: this is exactly what I wrote above! Though I guess "This Is Your Life, Donald Duck" is not that famous, so it's more probable they had in mind the Donny Duckling stories which Egmont has been producing since 2000. If it's true, I have one more reason to dislike these stories (plus, as you said, the existance of Della already contradicts them).
We'll wait and see. Will you will keep us updated on any news of this series?
Sure! One thing that seems predictable about the series already, is that a younger Uncle Scrooge may appear. I see that one of the already-indexed one-pagers has to do with Donald receiving a lesson on money ("Donald's eerste geldles"= "Donald's first lesson on money").
Thanks. I hope Scrooge does not appear (Donald may learn somewhere else his first lesson on money) as I prefer for the series to stay true to the idea that Donald had only one brief contact with Scrooge in 1930 and then didn't meet him again until 1947. But since Paperino Paperotto already ignores this, I'm afraid this may also happen in these 1-pageres.
Incidently, two days ago an user on an Italian forum wrote that he remembers seeing a YouTube interview to Kari Korhonen (who did many Dutch Donny Duckling stories) in which he said he didn't like Scrooge's appearances in the series.
Last Edit: Jan 8, 2017 16:03:52 GMT by drakeborough
Incidently, two days ago an user on an Italian forum wrote that he remembers seeing a YouTube interview to Kari Korhonen (who did many Dutch Donny Duckling stories) in which he said he didn't like Scrooge's appearances in the series.
One could argue that the idea that Scrooge was estranged from Donald and the rest of the Duck clan, and only reconnected with them when Donald was an adult, is a purely Rosa-driven one. Yes, "Christmas on Bear Mountain" would seem to imply that, but Barks himself seemed to forget it as the relationships were better-defined, since Donald clearly refers to having experienced "a lifetime with Scrooge" in the last panel of "How Green Was My Lettuce". And haven't there been stories by other writers that show Scrooge knowing Donald in his childhood? The much-maligned Rota "Donald as an egg" story comes to mind. Personally, I am an adherent to the Rosa continuity in most aspects, but some might suggest that to insist that Scrooge should have no contact with Donald in his childhood is unnecessarily limiting (although I am in favor of the idea, as you are).
It will be really interesting to see how the series of Dutch one-pagers going through his childhood and adolescence handles the issue of his family beyond Della. I look forward to seeing whether they indicate that D&D live with Grandma Duck on the farm, or whether that is left ambiguous. I suppose it would be possible to leave it ambiguous in one-pagers.
Drakeborough, I pretty much agree with you across the board, with the exception that I think that it's easier to understand an aunt/ great-aunt never appearing or being mentioned in thousands of stories about Donald and HDL than it is to understand a living mother/grandmother never appearing or being mentioned. So there I side with the editors, I guess. If Hortense were alive, even alive and living in Scotland (if she moved back to Scotland after Quackmore died), we should have heard about her before now. Donald and the boys should have heard from her, even she can't afford to fly to Duckburg for Christmas. Of course, she didn't grow up with either Christmas or Thanksgiving celebrations in Scotland! But even so, I would think she would keep contact with her son and grandchildren, especially if the grandchildren are orphaned.
Drakeborough, I pretty much agree with you across the board, with the exception that I think that it's easier to understand an aunt/ great-aunt never appearing or being mentioned in thousands of stories about Donald and HDL than it is to understand a living mother/grandmother never appearing or being mentioned.
I believe you are referring here to Matilda McDuck, and ordinarily I would agree that lack of contact from/acknowledgement of an aunt/grandaunt is not as major an issue as it would be from a parent/grandparent, but in Rosa's own stories, Matilda and Hortense were inseparable. I find it hard to believe that after Hortense's apparent death, Matilda would remain physically distant from Hortense's son/grandsons, even if she has off-page contact. Her issues were with Scrooge, not Donald and the boys, and Scrooge was (again, by Rosa's own account) nowhere in the picture until the boys were at least 6 or 7 years old (i.e., until "Christmas on Bear Mountain"). That's why it's hard for me to accept a Matilda McDuck alive in present-day continuity (but Daphne, Eider, etc. could easily still exist).
One could argue that the idea that Scrooge was estranged from Donald and the rest of the Duck clan, and only reconnected with them when Donald was an adult, is a purely Rosa-driven one. Yes, "Christmas on Bear Mountain" would seem to imply that, but Barks himself seemed to forget it as the relationships were better-defined, since Donald clearly refers to having experienced "a lifetime with Scrooge" in the last panel of "How Green Was My Lettuce".
Well, like you said "Christmas on Bear Mountain" seems to imply that, and obviously Rosa expanded on this version in a memorable way. I haven't read the English version of "How Green Was My Lettuce", but I don't think a line like that would be a contradiction, since they had dozens if not hundreds of adventures together by that point. It would be like Magica or Flintheart saying they have fought Scrooge for a lifetime: the line would seem natural, as in a figurative way they have been fighting for what seems a very long time.
And haven't there been stories by other writers that show Scrooge knowing Donald in his childhood? The much-maligned Rota "Donald as an egg" story comes to mind. Personally, I am an adherent to the Rosa continuity in most aspects, but some might suggest that to insist that Scrooge should have no contact with Donald in his childhood is unnecessarily limiting (although I am in favor of the idea, as you are).
Yes, there are stories of young Donald interacting with Scrooge, for example some tales of the Italian Paperino Paperotto, and I think also in the Egmont version of it (though it seems at least one of the Egmont authors doesn't like the idea). Let's see what happens in this new Dutch series, but if Scrooge doesn't appear I would be happier, since If I were writing stories of young Donald I would never use Scrooge.
Incidently, there is also a recent Italian story showing Scrooge briefly and secretly returning to Duckburg in a period where he is travelling the world, and he doesn't meet Matilda and Hortense because Quackfaster says they are out of town (Donald is not mentioned, and it's not clear if he's born yet).
It will be really interesting to see how the series of Dutch one-pagers going through his childhood and adolescence handles the issue of his family beyond Della. I look forward to seeing whether they indicate that D&D live with Grandma Duck on the farm, or whether that is left ambiguous. I suppose it would be possible to leave it ambiguous in one-pagers.
I am also looking forward to see what they do with young Donald. Their ideas seems contradictory (they allow Della to appear in this stories, but not Donald's parents? Weird), but the presence of Della alone makes this series more interesting than the Italian version. I'll keep an eye on it to see if something interesting happens. And leaving ambiguous where young Donald lives would be still better than having him live with Grandma Duck.
Drakeborough, I pretty much agree with you across the board, with the exception that I think that it's easier to understand an aunt/ great-aunt never appearing or being mentioned in thousands of stories about Donald and HDL than it is to understand a living mother/grandmother never appearing or being mentioned.
Well, it's not that I can't understand this point of view, it's just that I know many real-life examples of parents and adult sons living far away, and the distance is enough to explain why people have little contact except on the phone (and, mind you, I am talking about cases where the distance is much less than the distance between the West coast of USA and Scotland).
Is it outside the realm of possibility that, after her son and daughter moved out, Hortense decided she preferred to spend her last years in her native Scotland rather than in the USA? I don't think so.
Is it impossible that Donald has kept contact on her on the phone just like he had kept contact with Matilda? I don't think so.
Is it possible that Donald occasionally (let's say once a year or once every two or three years) goes to Scotland and visits her in person, and these visits are not shown on panel just because nothing interesting (from a story's point of view) happened? Quite so.
Is the distance, plus the fact that Hortense hadn't make up with Scrooge, a good reason to why she would not be present in the Christmas/Thanksgiving parties? I think so.
I must give credit to Egmont for foreseeing a possible negative reaction of some readers to the idea of Hortense showing up alive (I use Baar Baar Jinx's point of view to guess what would those readers think), but it's still not enough to convince me. For every decision Rosa took, there are readers who like it and readers who don't like it, so I don't think this particular idea (Hortense showing up alive in "A Letter from Home") would have been particularly disliked. If you nix a Rosa idea just because you think some readers may dislike it, then every story of his should be nixed, since there would be some readers who would dislike it. Nixing every story of him? Not very logical or practical.
I believe you are referring here to Matilda McDuck, and ordinarily I would agree that lack of contact from/acknowledgement of an aunt/grandaunt is not as major an issue as it would be from a parent/grandparent, but in Rosa's own stories, Matilda and Hortense were inseparable. I find it hard to believe that after Hortense's apparent death, Matilda would remain physically distant from Hortense's son/grandsons, even if she has off-page contact. Her issues were with Scrooge, not Donald and the boys, and Scrooge was (again, by Rosa's own account) nowhere in the picture until the boys were at least 6 or 7 years old (i.e., until "Christmas on Bear Mountain"). That's why it's hard for me to accept a Matilda McDuck alive in present-day continuity (but Daphne, Eider, etc. could easily still exist).
Well, if Hortense showed up in "A Letter from Home", this problem would have been solved. The story could have said Hortense moved to Scotland after Donald and Della moved out. Hortense and Matilda, being inseparable, decided together that they wanted to spend their last years in the native Scotland rather than in the USA. It's just an idea of mine, but I think it makes sense. Of course every reader has the right to exlude every story he wants from his headcanon, but I hope with time you will warm up with the idea of Matilda being alive (the character, not the user, who is definitely alive and well).
Last Edit: Jan 8, 2017 18:21:50 GMT by drakeborough
Incidently, there is also a recent Italian story showing Scrooge briefly and secretly returning to Duckburg in a period where he is travelling the world, and he doesn't meet Matilda and Hortense because Quackfaster says they are out of town (Donald is not mentioned, and it's not clear if he's born yet).
That story is part of the awesome Fantomius series, isn't it? We Frenchmen already had the previous episode, with its ending cliffhanger, but we're still waiting for that story… Aside from the (obviously forced) way it deals with Matilda and Hortense's absence, how did you like the story itself?
That story is part of the awesome Fantomius series, isn't it? We Frenchmen already had the previous episode, with its ending cliffhanger, but we're still waiting for that story… Aside from the (obviously forced) way it deals with Matilda and Hortense's absence, how did you like the story itself?
Yes, it is. I have yet to read the series properly, as I have only glanced through it, but the first thing that I noticed about the Scrooge vs Fantomius episode is that Scrooge still has his Candy-Striped Ruby ten years after he was on Titanic, i.e. in 1922, while he should have lost it in 1920. I contacted the author about this, and it seems the mistake was made because the Italian version of "The Status Seeker" removed the reference to the year 1920, so the only way for an Italian reader (or author) to know the year Scrooge lost it is to remember a line in "Life and Times" part 11 where Scrooge, just before losing it, says it's been eight years since the Titanic events. The story had already been published so it was impossible to correct this mistake.
Last Edit: Jan 8, 2017 18:28:25 GMT by drakeborough
Post by Scrooge MacDuck on Jan 8, 2017 18:33:22 GMT
Huh. You say you only glanced through it, then you go and reference a small continuity issue. I… see where you're coming from, but you've got to admit it is pretty funny.
At any rate, how do you know the story takes place in 1922? Does the story say so? So far, I do not believe the series had given precise dates, just generally saying it took pace in "the 1920s". Or did the French translation erase dates that were there in the original?
Huh. You say you only glanced through it, then you go and reference a small continuity issue. I… see where you're coming from, but you've got to admit it is pretty funny.
At any rate, how do you know the story takes place in 1922? Does the story say so? So far, I do not believe the series had given precise dates, just generally saying it took pace in "the 1920s". Or did the French translation erase dates that were there in the original?
Well, I noticed the mistake even before the story was published, because the previews said the following episode was about the Candy-Striped Ruby, and I was like "what? I saw the last story ended in 1922, and yet Scrooge still has a ruby he lost two years before? Either I am misundarstanding, or the story has a mistake."
And yes, the story itself says it is 1922. If I remember correctly, the episode before says it's been 6 years after 1916, and the actual episode says it's been 10 years since Titanic. Not sure if there was an explicit mention of 1922.
Huh. You say you only glanced through it, then you go and reference a small continuity issue. I… see where you're coming from, but you've got to admit it is pretty funny.
At any rate, how do you know the story takes place in 1922? Does the story say so? So far, I do not believe the series had given precise dates, just generally saying it took pace in "the 1920s". Or did the French translation erase dates that were there in the original?
Well, I noticed the mistake even before the story was published, because the previews said the following episode was about the Candy-Striped Ruby, and I was like "what? I saw the last story ended in 1922, and yet Scrooge still has a ruby he lost two years before? Either I am misundarstanding, or the story has a mistake."
And yes, the story itself says it is 1922. If I remember correctly, the episode before says it's been 6 years after 1916, and the actual episode says it's been 10 years since Titanic. Not sure if there was an explicit mention of 1922.
Ah. I see. Well… nice to have a specific and intendedly-Rosa-friendly chronology here, even if it slipped up in the end.
Ah. I see. Well… nice to have a specific and intendedly-Rosa-friendly chronology here, even if it slipped up in the end.
Indeed, in addition to the chronology, the series has are many references (both in the stories and in the extra material) to stories by Barks and Rosa. As I said, I am working to a list of such references by various authors.
Last Edit: Jan 8, 2017 20:14:54 GMT by drakeborough