I don't like the whole situation. I don't buy the astronaut/Space theory. Why not just have the "comical" explanation that Huey, Dewey, and Louie were so incorrigibly ill-behaved, that both their frazzled parents sent them to Donald to raise them, as they ran away into the hills, screaming? They are still (after taking a slow boat to China, and having continued to run on deck), continued to this very day, running further away (while still screaming). That is what Carl Barks imagined. He even told me that.
I too would be fine with just Barks's idea (although do understand that it is probably too cartoony for a lot of people who favor a more "realistic", Don-Rosa-style take on Disney comics), but the astronaut storyline is not a "theory"; it is a fact presented in a story. You and I are different on that point, but I do not lightly disregard stories from continuity, not unless they absolutely do not fit with everything else (like stories hinging on Scrooge and Grandma Duck being siblings). Family Ties established Della was an astronaut, and dash it all, that I must accept.
Family Ties established Della was an astronaut, and dash it all, that I must accept.--Scrooge MacDuck
In case anyone else reads this and is (as I was for a while) confused as to what Family Ties referred to...this is the Geradts story 80 is prachtig!, for which the official Inducks title is just 80 jaar. I thought it must be that, from the description of Della as an astronaut, but couldn't figure out where the title came from until I did a search on this forum, and remembered that "Family Ties" is the unofficial English title given to that story for an English scanlation of the story.
I too would be fine with just Barks's idea (although do understand that it is probably too cartoony for a lot of people who favor a more "realistic", Don-Rosa-style take on Disney comics), but the astronaut storyline is not a "theory"; it is a fact presented in a story. You and I are different on that point, but I do not lightly disregard stories from continuity, not unless they absolutely do not fit with everything else (like stories hinging on Scrooge and Grandma Duck being siblings). Family Ties established Della was an astronaut, and dash it all, that I must accept.
To play devil's advocate here (well, not really, since I too am not enamored with the Della-in-space theory); you say you don't discount stories unless they do not fit with everything else. Doesn't the Geradts story, "80 is prachtig!" violate previously established Taliaferro continuity, which clearly shows HD&L much older than the infants they are in the Geradts story, and the "firecracker under the chair" narrative that the cartoons established (since I know you are a "lumper" as far as Disney comics go, and consider everything in continuity and in the same universe as much as possible)?
I don't like the whole situation. I don't buy the astronaut/Space theory. Why not just have the "comical" explanation that Huey, Dewey, and Louie were so incorrigibly ill-behaved, that both their frazzled parents sent them to Donald to raise them, as they ran away into the hills, screaming? They are still (after taking a slow boat to China, and having continued to run on deck), continued to this very day, running further away (while still screaming). That is what Carl Barks imagined. He even told me that.
I too would be fine with just Barks's idea (although do understand that it is probably too cartoony for a lot of people who favor a more "realistic", Don-Rosa-style take on Disney comics), but the astronaut storyline is not a "theory"; it is a fact presented in a story. You and I are different on that point, but I do not lightly disregard stories from continuity, not unless they absolutely do not fit with everything else (like stories hinging on Scrooge and Grandma Duck being siblings). Family Ties established Della was an astronaut, and dash it all, that I must accept.
I understand your point... It is printed, so it's canon... At least in it's own continuity.
(Even if it is a ridiculous story which features Pinocchio and Pumbaa and treats everybody as comic characters, breaking the 4th wall.)
But in that story, Donald tells his nephews how he met Daisy and Scrooge as an adult and Geradts also used them in his "Donald's first..." stories where they know him as a young kid: Donalds eerste afspraakje Donalds eerste geldles
I can't say Geradts don't really care about continuity because he referenced the Christmas on Bear Mountain story for Donald and Scrooge's first meeting, but he clearly was one of the worst candidates to explain the Della mystery. Or maybe he was the beast choice because all these nonsensical things make it easier to decide if you want to disregard or accept it as canon personally.
For me, Family Ties is like This Is Your Life, Donald Duck or Happy Birthday, Donald Duck! to Rosa's work. It can be a fun story on its own, but if someone else writes a much more reasonable approach, people will more likely accept that as canon.
Yes, it's clear even Geradts himself doesn't accept the story in 80 is prachtig/Family Ties as "canon" for future stories. I've said that Geradts doesn't seem to care about continuity even among his own stories. Or maybe he puts those throw-in-everybody "birthday" stories the Dutch make into a special category of unreality. Myself, I can't take seriously anything that happens in a story where Donald is in-universe 80 years old. Plus, Pumbaa.
The idea of "Della in space" is not a bad one. If you want them alive and not deadbeat parents, she and/or the boys' father would have to be in a very remote and inaccessible place, whether that's the vicinity of Tralla La or outer space.* But the details of 80 is prachtig are irrelevant to my headcanon-building.
I *am* hoping for several of the Donald's First.... one-pagers to be printed by IDW one of these days. Preferably the ones that don't include child-versions of all the adult characters of Duckburg, in conflict with Rosa and other stories in my headcanon. The ones with just D&D, maybe referencing their off-panel living parents...those could fill out my headcanon nicely.
*Tralla La could be inaccessible in the 1950's, though no place on Earth is that beyond-contact today. If your Duck stories are set in the present, you'd almost have to put HDL's parent(s) in space to prevent their being dead/deadbeat.
I too would be fine with just Barks's idea (although do understand that it is probably too cartoony for a lot of people who favor a more "realistic", Don-Rosa-style take on Disney comics), but the astronaut storyline is not a "theory"; it is a fact presented in a story. You and I are different on that point, but I do not lightly disregard stories from continuity, not unless they absolutely do not fit with everything else (like stories hinging on Scrooge and Grandma Duck being siblings). Family Ties established Della was an astronaut, and dash it all, that I must accept.
To play devil's advocate here (well, not really, since I too am not enamored with the Della-in-space theory); you say you don't discount stories unless they do not fit with everything else. Doesn't the Geradts story, "80 is prachtig!" violate previously established Taliaferro continuity, which clearly shows HD&L much older than the infants they are in the Geradts story, and the "firecracker under the chair" narrative that the cartoons established (since I know you are a "lumper" as far as Disney comics go, and consider everything in continuity and in the same universe as much as possible)?
Well, I tend to think including a story in continuity is worth fudging some details when necessary if the bigger narrative can stay. So I doublethink the nephews as being a bit older than babies in the Family Ties flashback and the dialogue being a bit different — rather than HDL asking to know how they came to live with Donald, they'd be asking him to speak about Della in general because Donald never even mentions her anymore, and they don't remember much about her.
As for the firecracker narrative, it's actually from the Taliaferro comics. The Donald's Nephews cartoons just has a short postcard saying Della has sent HDL to stay with Donald for a little while, with no particular motive other than general family goodwill. And either way, the firecracker incident was never canonically the reason HDL lived with Donald; in the Taliaferro strips, the boys first come to stay with Donald following the firecracker incident, then Donald forcefully returns them to their mother after a few dozen strips, on-panel. Only months later did Taliaferro reintroduce the nephews, once again in Donald's house, with no explanation given.
So the way I'm looking at it, Donald's Nephews (the cartoon) is the first visit of HDL at Donald's house. They're still toddlers at this point (unusually bright and resourceful ones; but are you really surprised?). A little while later, the Firecracker Incident happens, leading to the original Taliaferro strips, at the end of which they go back to stay with Della. Mr Duck is still in hospital at that point (he may or may not be exaggerating his injury to have an extended leave from his sons' dangerous company). A few months later, Della's space mission as loosely told in Family Ties takes place, with her dropping the boys off at Donald's for the third and final time; which gets us back on track with the Taliaferro strips featuring the return of HDL.
(Even if it is a ridiculous story which features Pinocchio and Pumbaa and treats everybody as comic characters, breaking the 4th wall.)
I don't think it's fair to treat those two "crossovers" the same way. Pumbaa is certainly weird and I wouldn't touch The Lion King with a ten-foot-pole when it comes to its continuity or lack thereof with the comics. But Pinocchio is a long-accepted inclusion in the comics universe, within the same loose view as Grimhilde, Madam Mim and Captain Hook (just consider how many times Jiminy Cricket has appeared in Duck stories), or even moreso since the Pinocchio cast were already crossing over with the Mouse/Duck crowd in cartoon form (Fun and Fancy Free, Figaro in Pluto cartoons).
What's more, the film's inclusion in the Disney comics universe is pretty painless. It already takes place in a world of mixed humans and anthropomorphic animals, with the former thinking nothing special of the latter, too. The only "out-of-place" element is, I guess, the Blue Fairy and the Coachman, but are they really out of place in a world with Witch Hazel and Magica De Spell?
(Even if it is a ridiculous story which features Pinocchio and Pumbaa and treats everybody as comic characters, breaking the 4th wall.)
I don't think it's fair to treat those two "crossovers" the same way. Pumbaa is certainly weird and I wouldn't touch The Lion King with a ten-foot-pole when it comes to its continuity or lack thereof with the comics. But Pinocchio is a long-accepted inclusion in the comics universe, within the same loose view as Grimhilde, Madam Mim and Captain Hook (just consider how many times Jiminy Cricket has appeared in Duck stories), or even moreso since the Pinocchio cast were already crossing over with the Mouse/Duck crowd in cartoon form (Fun and Fancy Free, Figaro in Pluto cartoons).
What's more, the film's inclusion in the Disney comics universe is pretty painless. It already takes place in a world of mixed humans and anthropomorphic animals, with the former thinking nothing special of the latter, too. The only "out-of-place" element is, I guess, the Blue Fairy and the Coachman, but are they really out of place in a world with Witch Hazel and Magica De Spell?
Okay, the Pinocchio supporting cast is often part of the (extended) Duck universe the same way as the Cinderella mice and Dumbo are living at Grandma's farm. Even if I like some of them (for example, Jiminy Cricket), they don't fit to my personal "realistic Duckburg".
But I think there are different approaches to these characters.
First, these are all cartoon / comic characters from their own stories and they know it. I mean they can say, "Hi, I'm Timon and he is Pumbaa, we are from The Lion King! " Everyone fits, because it's all a big Disney world.
The second, where everything happened in the same universe. The mice went away from Cinderella to Grandma's farm, Figaro was Geppetto's cat before he became Minnie's pet, etc. Some of them fit, some of them... not really.
Third, Mickey's gang: Mickey, Goofy, Donald live in the same universe with Pete, Clarabelle, etc. We have funny animals, Pluto, Figaro, Jiminy Cricket, Chip and Dale. It's a cartoony, sometimes slapstick world, but with some more realistic rules. Madam Mim lives in Duckburg, the Cinderella Mice with Grandma.
Fourth: The realistic / Don Rosa approach. Mickey Mouse is a fictional character. Everything is the same as in the real universe but people mostly have dog or pig noses or beaks and there are some evolved fowl who are considered normal people. The history is almost the same with the exception of the Duck and McDuck related stuff and the existence of Duckburg in Calisota. There is no Mouseton.
Well, obviously, there are much-much more than these four, I just wanted to illustrate that while I prefer the last version, when I read a story, I kind of choose the right approach for that in my head. A Don Rosa story is obviously in the last category. Most of the Barks stories too. Gottfredson and Taliaferro are oscillating between three and four. I think your head canon is the second and the Geradts story represents the first.
For me, the main problem with Family Ties is that it tries to resolve the fourth version's problem in the first approach's universe. But even if I ignore all the crazy things and concentrate on the Della substory, it's too simplistic for my taste. Somehow, it's just not enough. Maybe my mind is spoiled after Rosa's work.
For me, the main problem with Family Ties is that it tries to resolve the fourth version's problem in the first approach's universe. But even if I ignore all the crazy things and concentrate on the Della substory, it's too simplistic for my taste. Somehow, it's just not enough. Maybe my mind is spoiled after Rosa's work.
I agree with you entirely on this. Here's what I said about the whole issue on another thread:
Personally, I dislike the whole "Della is an astronaut and out there in space somewhere, not dead or derelict" narrative (I have not been able to read the story in English yet but that is, I believe, the gist of it). This may be because I tend to take a more real-world approach to this universe (yes, a universe that features talking ducks, but we all know they're really people who just look like ducks), and the astronaut story seems too simplistic and clichéd, like the kind of story you would tell a very young child to hide the fact that their parents are dead or derelict.
I'm also with you vis-à-vis keeping the Duck universe entirely separate from the rest of the greater "Disney" universe; in my headcanon, there's no place for Jiminy Cricket, the Cinderella Mice, Madam Mim or Dumbo in Duck stories (MEAS incompatability not being the least of the problems in this respect). My outlook aligns very closely with Rosa's here, except that since I enjoy a lot of Mickey stories, he's not a fictional character to me, but rather a character who exists in an entirely different universe. But Ducks and Mice don't mix, so in my view, Mouseton is certainly not in Calisota, and in fact exists in a different universe altogether than the one in which Duckburg exists (i.e, I'm as extreme a splitter on the lumper-splitter scale as one can be with regards to Disney comics-dom).
Post by Baar Baar Jinx on Oct 30, 2018 23:37:33 GMT
As an aside, I thought it was odd how the book keeps referring to Scrooge as "Scrooge McDuck" rather than "Uncle Scrooge" ... as if the writers had no idea Scrooge was related to the others.
Good find! Here's a question: who do you think that bust is, behind them?
(Considering the costumes in that image, somehow, I don't imagine anyone involved knew too much about the accepted continuity…)
Hmm... that's a good question... it certainly doesn't seem to be any established member of the Duck family. Actually, it looks a bit like Quackmore in a powdered wig (it's even got his tie and collar), but that seems a bit unlikely - after all, why would the Duck family have a bust of Quackmore with a powdered wig. I suppose the author didn't really intend it to be anyone in particular; you're probably right that they didn't know much about the accepted continuity. (I somehow hadn't really noticed those outfits until now, but they definitely don't match the Duck's usual outfits. Daisy, too, wears a rather unusual dress in this book. Only Scrooge wears his usual outfit).
Well, Egmont didn't allow me to call Sadstone Gander Gladstone's identical twin brother. If I wanted to use him in a story, he had to become an identical twin cousin. Their reasoning was that the readers would wonder why he had never been around all thse years of comic book stories. I gave a good reason for that: "He left (banished himself) so that his unnatural bad luck wouldn't continue to be a danger to his close family." That explanation was not accepted. So, it appears that close relatives to the major characters can't be used, except in flashbacks to long ago.
Yes, but you were trying to introduce a new sibling; whereas Shamrock's existence gives a reason for another brother to exist. This worked for Mickey's sister Amelia, who was allowed to appear in a couple of Egmont stories because Freddie and Mortie were already established character since the 30's.
Well, Mickey's sister, Amelia HAD to be named "Amelia Fieldmouse", as Morty and Ferdie's last name was Fieldmouse, and The old lady that picked them up from Mickey' house, to take them home, was addressed by Mickey as "Mrs. Fieldmouse" (ostensibly the boys' paternal grandmother).
And, no, Carl Barks never mentioned, nor implied that April, May, and June's last name was "Duck". He DID imply that they WERE Daisy's sister's daughter, as Daisy told Donald that she was at that apartment, visiting her sister, and introduced April, May, and June as her nieces. It is unlikely that there was a big family gathering at her sister's flat on that day, so that the nieces were daughters of her brother, because we would have seen other family members, or heard their noise, and also because Daisy stated that she was just about to take her nieces to the cinema. She would not have been so mean as to wait to take her nieces out specifically when there was a family gathering at her sister's house. So, I am convinced that April, May, and June are Daisy's SISTER'S children, who are NOT related to Donald, and their last name should not be "Duck".