Fitting non-Rosa family members into Rosian canon

[Fritz]

For example, wouldn't Fergus' brother "Pothole" McDuck, apparently the first of the clan McDuck to emigrate to the United States, have had a family? He doesn't seem to in Life of Scrooge, but maybe he later got married and had kids. If he had any sons, that would put an end to Scrooge's claim to be "the last of the clan McDuck" (since daughters apparently don't count) but that might be a neat way to explain Gideon without violating the Rosa version of things, if you are so inclined (make him a cousin of Scrooge's and not a brother).

I'd tossed that idea around in my headcanon too...to answer the question "If you were to write in Gideon in a way that doesn't contradict Rosa as much, how would you do it?" I could see a weird correlation between Pothole's love of rambling tall tales and Gideon's journalistic dogged persistence, kind of a "My Dad loved to lie, I love the truth" thing, but both storytellers at heart.

[The KKM]

Jan 8, 2017 15:55:00 GMT Fritz said:

For example, wouldn't Fergus' brother "Pothole" McDuck, apparently the first of the clan McDuck to emigrate to the United States, have had a family? He doesn't seem to in Life of Scrooge, but maybe he later got married and had kids. If he had any sons, that would put an end to Scrooge's claim to be "the last of the clan McDuck" (since daughters apparently don't count) but that might be a neat way to explain Gideon without violating the Rosa version of things, if you are so inclined (make him a cousin of Scrooge's and not a brother).

I'd tossed that idea around in my headcanon too...to answer the question "If you were to write in Gideon in a way that doesn't contradict Rosa as much, how would you do it?" I could see a weird correlation between Pothole's love of rambling tall tales and Gideon's journalistic dogged persistence, kind of a "My Dad loved to lie, I love the truth" thing, but both storytellers at heart.

I always preferred the idea Gideon was just born when Scrooge was in America, and left home early, maybe some bad blood with his family.

[Baar Baar Jinx]

Jan 8, 2017 21:25:00 GMT The KKM said:

Jan 8, 2017 15:55:00 GMT Fritz said:

I'd tossed that idea around in my headcanon too...to answer the question "If you were to write in Gideon in a way that doesn't contradict Rosa as much, how would you do it?" I could see a weird correlation between Pothole's love of rambling tall tales and Gideon's journalistic dogged persistence, kind of a "My Dad loved to lie, I love the truth" thing, but both storytellers at heart.

I always preferred the idea Gideon was just born when Scrooge was in America, and left home early, maybe some bad blood with his family.

And where does Rumpus fit into your view of the Duck universe? Or does he not at all?

[The KKM]

Wasn't Rumpus already explained as being Scrooge's half-brother, from before Fergus married Downy? I never give him much consideration, don't think I've even ever read a story with him, but seems the job of having him fit with Rosa-ian continuity has been done already.

[Baar Baar Jinx]

Jan 8, 2017 21:32:31 GMT The KKM said:

Wasn't Rumpus already explained as being Scrooge's half-brother, from before Fergus married Downy? I never give him much consideration, don't think I've even ever read a story with him, but seems the job of having him fit with Rosa-ian continuity has been done already.

Yes. I guess my question really is, do you like the concept of the character or not?
There's a detailed discussion on how Rumpus fits into Rosa continuity under the "Zeke's wife?" thread (as is obvious, another thread that got wildly off-topic). 

[The KKM]

Well as I said, I never even read anything with him as far as I recall, so can't say much. The way he's tied to Rosian canon is a bit awkward, or rather, makes sense on an IRL perspective, but gets too close to questions of adultery, divorces, etc for me in a duck comic, especially being that it's set in the 19th century.

[Matilda]

Personally, I never liked the character Rumpus or any of the stories that feature him. So, no need to fit him into my largely Barks/Rosa continuity. I find his character design unattractive and do not think his personality leads to funny interactions.

I'm more neutral about Gideon. He hasn't become real so far in my personal Duckiverse, but he's better than most of the Italian-origin characters. One of the problems for me is that I don't think any other same-generation relative of Scrooge who wasn't at some point traveling/working with him would end up in Duckburg. He'd be back in Scotland, or somewhere else entirely. Fritz Baugh, The KKM, how would you see Gideon ending up in Duckburg?

On the whole, when I read a Gideon story I'm more likely to mentally edit out the familial connection and assume some other source of their personal rivalry.

[The KKM]

I've vaguely thought about an idea for a "Life and Tales of Gideon McDuck" that'd probably follow something like, for some reason he leaves his family and tries his luck in London, gets tied into reporting, and then with the press revolution of the turn of the century goes to the States to try his luck- getting to Duckburg eventually just seems to me a natural conclusion, both because the city would stand out to him due to having family there, and also since we know it becomes a massive metropolis thanks to Scrooge's businesses.

[Matilda]

I don't know-- as a youngest sibling myself, I know that I would go out of my way to avoid being in the same place as a phenomenally successful older sibling! And that's even if I *loved* that sibling.

I can accept that Matilda and Hortense initially choose to live near Scrooge in Duckburg, because they are women of their era, and a woman without other family in the country would probably stay near a male relative. But I can't see a younger brother choosing to move to, of all places in the world, the one where his unbelievably wealthy older brother dominates the economy and the landscape.

[The KKM]

Maybe out of rivalry- to prove he can make his mark even in his brother's territory? As I said, I've only vaguely thought this all. He might also not even have been in Duckburg until shortly before Shellfish Motives- maybe he made his career elsewhere (Mouseton? Anderville? St Canard? Or just plain New York would work), at some point befriends, or at least, loses bad blood with the McDucks (if we're using the bad blood idea to explain his absence in Life and Times), and is hired by Scrooge to head a newspaper in Duckburg, leading to his introduction in Shellfish Motives.

[Baar Baar Jinx]

Jan 8, 2017 23:01:17 GMT Matilda said:

I'm more neutral about Gideon. He hasn't become real so far in my personal Duckiverse, but he's better than most of the Italian-origin characters. One of the problems for me is that I don't think any other same-generation relative of Scrooge who wasn't at some point traveling/working with him would end up in Duckburg. He'd be back in Scotland, or somewhere else entirely. Fritz Baugh, The KKM, how would you see Gideon ending up in Duckburg?

On the whole, when I read a Gideon story I'm more likely to mentally edit out the familial connection and assume some other source of their personal rivalry.

What if, as was suggested elsewhere , he is the son of Pothole instead of Fergus? Then he would be much younger than Scrooge and be an American (as I understand it, Scarpa has portrayed Gideon as growing up with Scrooge in Scotland in other stories, but I guess we can pick-and-choose in our personal headcanon). As to why he chooses to settle in Duckburg ... maybe he just likes being a thorn in his cousin's side? Maybe he's trying to expose the improprieties (as much possible) of this "other branch" of the extant McDuck clan? We're not given any indication that Pothole and Fergus are at odds, but who knows, really? (However, as Pothole's son, wouldn't he still have some claim over the McDuck ancestral property back in Scotland?)

That said, I'm not too impressed with Gideon either and can take him (as Scrooge's cousin, not as a Rosa continuity-violating brother) or leave him.

[Pan Maciej]

I never cared much for Gideon but at the same time I discovered character years and years after reading Rosa's "Life and Time..." so I was obvious the "Uh-hu! He's not in the canon" defence system will turn on. I don't mind him I just had hard time get use to him.

[Baar Baar Jinx]

Jan 9, 2017 0:20:24 GMT Pan Maciej said:

I never cared much for Gideon but at the same time I discovered character years and years after reading Rosa's "Life and Time..." so I was obvious the "Uh-hu! He's not in the canon" defence system will turn on. I don't mind him I just had hard time get use to him.

To be honest, none of the Scarpa-created Duck universe characters (Brigitta, Jubal Pomp, Dickie Duck, Gideon McDuck) appeal to me very much, and I feel no particular need to try and fit them into my headacanon. Brigitta, in particular, I dislike because of the somewhat misogynistic trope she represents (possible gold-digging, obsessed stalker chasing a rich old man who treats her shabbily). The others I could take or leave (I can't accept Gideon as Scrooge's brother, but maybe as a cousin, as we've discussed). As to non-Scarpa characters, the whole Rumpus-Scrooge relationship adds a somewhat interesting twist to the McDuck family tree and has implications for Scrooge's image of his father (which is probably fan-fiction territory, I understand), which is the only reason he appeals to me somewhat; the character himself is not very interesting (and Van Horn seems a little too pushy in trying to make him mainstream, IMHO). Fethry I've somewhat warmed up to. I have had limited exposure to "Douglas McDuck" and I'm not sure where exactly he fits into the family tree (a cousin of Scrooge's, I understand? But whose offspring?). 

[Matilda]

Yes, BBJ, as usual I am with you on these matters. While I have accepted a bunch of characters not created/used by Barks or Rosa as "real" in my mental Duckiverse, the only family member I have accepted is Fethry. Fethry exists in my mental Duckburg in order that Tabby might make sarcastic comments about him. As I've said elsewhere, in my headcanon Fethry hung around when Donald was a young man living on his own with Tabby, before he adopted the boys. (I know there are stories in which both Fethry and HDL appear, but those stories don't become real for me.) Fethry moved somewhere far away before the boys moved in. This explains why he wasn't ever around in the stories I read in my childhood.

The one family member created by Scarpa who might possibly become real to me is Dickie Duck. I'm fine with the idea that Goldie had a child, whether the father was Scrooge (but she didn't tell him of the pregnancy at the time) or a later liaison. So a grandchild of Goldie is in theory acceptable to me. We'll see whether Dickie as a character becomes real to me when I've read more stories featuring her.

Not a family member, but I also accept Belle Duck (whom I personally think of as Belle Couac, giving her her French [Creole?] last name). Even if you accept that Goldie became the One True Love (aside from money) of Scrooge's life, there's no reason to think that he never dated anyone before he met Goldie. He's not still in love with Belle, he just has a residual fondness for her, sentimental feelings that make him a soft touch.

[Baar Baar Jinx]

Coming back to this "Cousin Douglas McDuck" character, in one story he was described as Whitewater Duck's uncle! This is in complete violation of Rosa's family tree (which you would assume they would want to follow in 2004). Whitewater Duck is the son of Eider and has no connection to the McDucks, who are only related to the Ducks through the Hortense-Quackmore union. Also, wouldn't an uncle of Whitewater also be an uncle of Donald (unless the relation is through the Lulubelle Loon side of the family)?