I wonder if IDW will introduce her, or a married Disney character is just TOO FAR for the American Disney Comics
Executives at Marvel Comics have infamously commented that they didn't want Spider-Man/Peter Parker to be married as it would "age the character".
Which is part of the reason he is no longer married to Mary Jane after a literal deal with the devil.
Considering Disney owns Marvel now, I wonder if they share the same viewpoints.
In French, Minnie is referred as Mickey's "fiancée" and so is Daisy referred as Donald's "fiancée". Does this mean they are actually engaged? Or are we meant to just see this as the term "girlfriend"?
(heck, even "bride" has been translated as "fiancée" in French, such as Bride of Frankenstein becoming La Fiancée de Frankenstein...)
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I wonder if IDW will introduce her, or a married Disney character is just TOO FAR for the American Disney Comics
In French, Minnie is referred as Mickey's "fiancée" and so is Daisy referred as Donald's "fiancée". Does this mean they are actually engaged? Or are we meant to just see this as the term "girlfriend"?
(heck, even "bride" has been translated as "fiancée" in French, such as Bride of Frankenstein becoming La Fiancée de Frankenstein...)
No, I don't think they mean to imply they are literally engaged to be married. If that were so, after so many years of elapsed time of being engaged and not marrying, implied by all those stories, both Daisy and Minnie would have dumped Donald and Mickey. I'm sure they meant something like "boyfriend" and "girlfriend" (vriendin in Dutch) - "going steady" in American parlance.
Kind of want to join the game but I guess even if I list their Chinese names here nobody can read them...... One of the funny thing is, Scrooge's name was translated as 史高治, which is different from how we translated Ebenezer Scrooge. The later one is 斯克鲁奇. So if you put "史高治" in Google image and hit "search", the only result you can see is a cute cartoon duck.
Kind of want to join the game but I guess even if I list their Chinese names here nobody can read them...... One of the funny thing is, Scrooge's name was translated as 史高治, which is different from how we translated Ebenezer Scrooge. The later one is 斯克鲁奇. So if you put "史高治" in Google image and hit "search", the only result you can see is a cute cartoon duck.
That's not really special, considering it's not the case in Italy, Germany or France either. Or do you mean that 史高治 still phonetically reads as "Scrooge"?
Kind of want to join the game but I guess even if I list their Chinese names here nobody can read them...... One of the funny thing is, Scrooge's name was translated as 史高治, which is different from how we translated Ebenezer Scrooge. The later one is 斯克鲁奇. So if you put "史高治" in Google image and hit "search", the only result you can see is a cute cartoon duck.
That's not really special, considering it's not the case in Italy, Germany or France either. Or do you mean that 史高治 still phonetically reads as "Scrooge"?
Yap, that's what I meant. Both 史高治 and 斯克鲁奇 are expected to have a similar pronunciation as "Scrooge".
Anyway, I don't think it would be useful if I do a list characters names in Italian, since there are countless characters and, as Matilda said, Inducks already provides an answer for that. But I think I can use this topic to repost here a question that went unnoticed in another topic.
I don't have easy access to any of these issues at the present time, but since (surprisingly) no one else has answered yet, and since this is a topic that interests me too, I'll hazard an educated guess. IIRC, the name, like the placement of Mouseton in Calisota as a twin city to Duckburg (an idea that apparently originated with Scarpa but had not been mainstream in English) were both introduced into English comics by Gemstone editors. Therefore, the most likely choices are:
Magica's Hot Plot (H 98287), Uncle Scrooge 332 (July 21, 2004) The Bronze Gate (I TL 2423-3), Donald Duck Adventures (Gemstone) 16 (January 2006)
Perhaps someone can check these two stories and see which one of them features the name "Quackmore" for the first time?
EDIT:
This was posted in another thread but it seems more relevant here:
drakeborough said:
Maybe there is an even earlier source. This 2002 DCML message by Luca Boschi seems to suggest that this 1955 story by Martina/Carpi portrays Scrooge and Grandma as sibilings. However, I don't have the story so I can't check.
Following that DCML message thread leads to an entirely different but equally interesting topic to discuss: where does Grandma's first name, Elvira, actually come from? Adopting it for Life of Scrooge, Rosa says he got it from the non-Barks back-up story in WDC&S#121, but the aforementioned DCML discussion suggests that Italians were using it long before that, and Rosa, unaware of that, marveled at the fact that they picked it up from the same obscure story that he did. Someone then pointed out that Taliaferro himself may have used it in the Donald Duck newspaper strip at some point, but I am not sure if there was ever a citation. Do we have any resolution on this question?
Rereading this thread, here are two interesting questions (when was the name Quackmore first used for Scrooge's butler, and where does the name Elvira for Grandma come from) that I don't think we ever answered. So I'm reposting the above in hopes of resuming that conversation.
RE Quackmore: I just checked both stories. In Magica's Hot Plot (H 98287) he is referred to as Albert, while in The Bronze Gate (I TL 2423-3) he is indeed (for the first time in English) referred to as Quackmore.
Rereading this thread, here are two interesting questions (when was the name Quackmore first used for Scrooge's butler, and where does the name Elvira for Grandma come from) that I don't think we ever answered. So I'm reposting the above in hopes of resuming that conversation.
I don't know when Battista's English name became Quackmore, so I also hope someone will be able to clarify this point.
As for Grandma's name: Don Rosa took the name Elvira from this untitled 8-pager (WDC&S#121, October 1950) written by an unknown author and drawn by Riley Thomson. The story is the first of a long series of WDC&S stories with Grandma Duck, which started shortly after "Donald's Grandma Duck" (Chase Craig ? /Carl Barks, Vacation Parade #1, July 1950) established the Grandma Duck universe: the GD series replaced the Bucky Bug series that ended in the previous WDC&S issue, and went on until WDC&S #168 (September 1954), with the exception of issues #135, #136, #142 and #155 that have no Grandma stories. The untitled 8-pager is about those annoying Cinderella mice, which Grandma fights for the whole story until she decides to adopts them at the end of the tale, and unfortunately they will be a constant presence in the farm in most of the stories of the WDC&S Grandma series, and in some other Grandma stories of the same period published in other comic titles, and will also appear (albeit not as frequently) in some post-1954 non-American duck comics, up to this Dutch 4-pager from 2015... but I am diverging, and what really matters for our discussion is that the 8-pager shows a picture of baby Grandma Duck, and the picture is labelled "Elviry Duck":
Elviry is of course a diminutive/nickname for Elvira, so Rosa decided to call her Elvira, even though in the sketches for "Life and Times" he called her Elviry:
As for her surname: the 1950 story implied Duck is also her maiden surname (as she was called "Elviry Duck" in a photo of her second birthday, well before she was married), but since it was not a Barks story Rosa felt free to ignore this fact, as he wanted her maiden surname to be Coot: if he used a fact from that non-Barks story is only because Barks never gave her a first name, and Rosa needed one for his Lo$ and family tree. Why did Rosa wanted her surname to be Coot? Well, essentially for three reasons:
1) Even though Barks never said Cornelius Coot was related to Donald or any member of Donald's family, he didn't negate it either, and in addition Barks did say Donald was related to someone named Coot (Cuthbert Coot).
2) The fact that Grandma lives and works on a farm seems fit with the idea that she is from a family of pioneers.
3) If Grandma is a granddaughter of Cornelius Coot, then this would give her an important role in the Lo$ as she could be the one who sold some land in Duckburg to Scrooge.
Anyway, Rosa used the name Elvira in other stories, and then other authors picked it up and used it too. One might ask why, if Rosa decided he was going to use a non-Barks name for Grandma, he chose the name Elvira used in a single story rather than the name Abigail used in two stories written by Carl Fallberg (untitled 1953 story, drawn by Frank McSavage, and 1955's Ridin' the Rails, drawn by Tony Strobl). Was it because Elvira was used first, or because he liked it better, or because he was not aware of the stories using the name Abigail? I guess it's the latter, since if I remember correctly the name Elviry has been part of Don Rosa's notes for many years before he even became an author, while he never talked about the name Abigail. Whatever the reason, I like the name Elvira much better than Abigail (maybe because as an Italian the name Abigail sounds very strange to me and I hadn't even ever heard it before reading that it was used in some stories as Grandma Duck's name), so I am glad he chose it. There is also the interesting topic of first names invented in other countries for Grandma Duck, but maybe it's better if we save that for another thread.
I don't think Taliaferro ever used the name Elvira, but this would be easy to check because Taliaferro only used her 53 times between daily strips and Sunday pages. Plus, the DCML user said he remembers it in a strip from the late 1930's, which couldn't be true because at the time Grandma hadn't been invented yet.
And Italian authors have been using the name Elvira Coot for about two decades, but all stories I know in which the name is used were published after Don's family tree and Lo$. The earliest Italian story I know to use the name Elvira for Grandma is Zio Paperone e le notizie... fraterne, published in the first day of 1996; the story used the name Elvira four times (the first time is in the picture below):
This story, however, doesn't say that her surname is Coot: she is given no surname, but the implication is that she is a McDuck, since she is referred as Scrooge's sister (it's the second-to-last Italian story to make this claim AFAIK) and has the McDuck tartan/pictures of McDucks hanging on the walls of her farm. It's worth noting that, at the time this story was published, neither "The Invader of Fort Duckburg" nor Don's family tree had been published in Italy (they would be published in April 1996 and December 1996 respectively), which means the writer either had access to the original version of Lo$ and/or the family tree before they were published in Italy (unlikely), or he was aware of the obscure 1950 story and decided to turn Elviry into Elvira independently from Rosa. In the DCML discussion of January 2002 Luca Boschi mentioned that the name Elvira and the panel from the 1950 story using it appeared in his book "Walt Disney presenta Paperina e le altre" (February 1994). It's possible that the book said Elviry should be regarded as a diminutive/nickname for Elvira (because Boschi was aware of Rosa's work, or because Boschi decided it himself independently from Rosa), and the writer of the Italian story above may have been inspired by the book and/or by some article/character profile based on the book. I don't have access to the book so I can't say how is the panel from the 1950 story commented, or even which version of it is shown: the original version or the Italian version? And if it's the Italian version, which edition is it? I see from Inducks that the 1950 story has four real Italian editions:
•Topolino (libretto) 23 (1951) Il compleanno di Nonna Papera •Capolavori Disney 7 - Le grandi storie di Riley Thompson 1950-51 (1992) Grandma Duck featuring Gus and Jaq the Cinderella Mice •Zio Paperone 169 (2003) idem •Topolino Story (Corriere della Sera) 3 - Topolino Story 1951 (2005) idem
I have access to the first and the fourth, which use the same edition. Here, "Elviry Duck" was replaced by "Nonna Papera" ("Grandma Duck") and even the date was changed to fit the publication date of that Topolino issue:
I don't have Capolavori Disney #7 and Zio Paperone #169, however I saw two alternate Italian versions of that panel. One of them is shown in this 1997 article (I have it but at the moment I can't provide it an image from it): the mouse say "una foto di Nonna Papera al suo secondo compleanno", while the name "Elviry Duck" and the month "October" under the picture are left unchanged. The other one is from this 2008 article:
The dialogue still says "una foto di Nonna Papera al suo secondo compleanno", but the lettering is different (this one uses Diego Ceresa's lettering), the coloring is different, and "Elviry Duck" was changed into "Elvira Coot" while OCT (as in "October") was changed into OTT (as in "ottobre", Italian translation of "October").
It seems obvious that the version of the panel that I can't upload now is from Capolavori Disney #7 (though for some reason Inducks gives this edition an English name, even though it's unlikely that the story was published in Italy untranslated); the version from the article above must be from Zio Paperone #169, since Inducks shows that it has a different translation and color from Topolino #23 and Topolino Story #3, and also shows that this version is lettered by Ceresa as one would expect. If I ever get hold of the book "Walt Disney presenta Paperina e le altre" I will update this part and tell you which version of the panel was used and how it was commented.
The newspaper calls her "Elvira Papera" ("Elvira Duck"), and it's implied Duck is just her married name since in the same story she is also said to be the Cornelius Coot's granddaughter:
Though the story doesn't say whether Cornelius is her paternal grandfather or maternal grandfather, it's obvious the story is meant to fit into Don Rosa's continuity (both for the name Elvira and for the fact that she is Cornelius' granddaughter) so it's equally obvious that the writer meant for Cornelius to be her paternal grandfather and for Elvira to have Coot as surname. Of course, writers and artists don't always work together while creating a story, and this explains why the unnamed duck in the picture above who is obviously Cornelius' son and Elvira's father doesn't look like Clinton. Also, it's interesting to note that this story shows Cornelius Coot's wife/girlfriend: I only know one other story that shows her. Anyway, the name Elvira Coot is frequently used now, though I never bothered to make a list of stories in which the name is used (there are too many stories I don't have, which would make any list made by me incomplete).
Last Edit: May 6, 2017 12:29:59 GMT by drakeborough
100% sure Rosa was aware of the name "Abigail", at least in the later years. He mentioned that name when he explained his tree in Don Rosa Library. 95% sure he always chose to stick with the first name used, no matter how rare it was used. It was the case for Della's name as well.
Rereading this thread, here are two interesting questions (when was the name Quackmore first used for Scrooge's butler, and where does the name Elvira for Grandma come from) that I don't think we ever answered. So I'm reposting the above in hopes of resuming that conversation.
I don't know when Battista's English name became Quackmore, so I also hope someone will be able to clarify this point.
As I stated in my post above, Battista's English name became Quackmore in the story The Bronze Gate (I TL 2423-3) (Donald Duck Adventures (Gemstone) # 16, January 2006).
I don't know when Battista's English name became Quackmore, so I also hope someone will be able to clarify this point.
As I stated in my post above, Battista's English name became Quackmore in the story The Bronze Gate (I TL 2423-3) (Donald Duck Adventures (Gemstone) # 16, January 2006).
Do you know who translated/Americanized the story?
Also, it's a shame the writer of the backup Grandma Duck story in WDC&S#121 is unknown ... that person gets credit for naming Grandma, as it's now clear that Taliaferro never used a first name for his creation; the DCML member's vague memories to that effect were obviously incorrect. Or could it be that Riley Thompson added the name on his own accord to the art, and thus is the originator? Unfortunately, we will probably never know.
As I stated in my post above, Battista's English name became Quackmore in the story The Bronze Gate (I TL 2423-3) (Donald Duck Adventures (Gemstone) # 16, January 2006).
Do you know who translated/Americanized the story?
Unfortunately there are no translation or dialogue credits.
100% sure Rosa was aware of the name "Abigail", at least in the later years. He mentioned that name when he explained his tree in Don Rosa Library.
That's interesting. Can someone upload a copy of the text that introduces the family tree? I only know of this version, and here Rosa didn't mention the name Abigail.
95% sure he always chose to stick with the first name used, no matter how rare it was used. It was the case for Della's name as well.
Well, in this case Rosa chose Della over Dumbella because the latter sounded stupid, and this has nothing to do with the fact that the newspaper comic using Della predates the animated short using Dumbella by few months: even in an alternate universe where the animated short predated the newspaper comic, I'm pretty sure that he would have still chosen Della over Dumbella.
As for Barks' Thelma... well, that name never appeared in a comic or cartoon (unlike Della and Dumbella), and was more like a placeholder name (Barks didn't remember her original name, and he couldn't google it... in the 1950's!) than a conscious name change. Plus, Della Duck sounds better than Thelma Duck. So, yes, in this case he chose the first name used.
I don't know when Battista's English name became Quackmore, so I also hope someone will be able to clarify this point.
As I stated in my post above, Battista's English name became Quackmore in the story The Bronze Gate (I TL 2423-3) (Donald Duck Adventures (Gemstone) # 16, January 2006).
Oh, now I see it. Your message was published when I was writing my last one (which took a long time as it was overly long), so I didn't notice yours.
According to Inducks, these are the first four stories with Battista that were published in the USA:
1) The Old West Diary of Goofalo Bill (I TL 1780-AP), Goofy Adventures 7 (December 1990) 2) The Money Ocean (I AT 215-A), Uncle Scrooge 266 (May 1992) 3) Magica's Hot Plot (H 98287), Uncle Scrooge 332 (July 21, 2004) 4) The Bronze Gate (I TL 2423-3), Donald Duck Adventures (Gemstone) 16 (January 2006)
So, you say that the third story calls him Albert and the fourth story calls him Quackmore. Is he called by name in the first and second story, or he is unnamed? And do we know who translated "The Bronze Gate"?
EDIT: I see that Baar Baar Jinx already asked the same question, and Zantaf already answered "Unfortunately there are no translation or dialogue credits."
As for "Magica's Hot Plot", you say he is called Albert, and an Inducks scan of the first page confirms this is true. I also see that in the orginal version he is called James, despite the fact that Battista's official Dutch name is Bertus. Well, Inducks also lists three alternate Dutch names (Albert, James and Van Stoetewolf): the name James is listed as having appeared only in the Dutch translation of one story (I TL 1886-A, published in 1992 in both Italy and the Netherlands), but these lists are often incomplete, and indeed this one is incomplete since we just saw that at least one story (Magica's Hot Plot) is missing. It may also debated whether he is meant to be Battista since he is a bit different from his Italian counterpart, but he is similar enough to be him, and the difference would be caused by different art styles. In the Italian translation of this story he is called Battista.
The name Albert in "Magica's Hot Plot" and in at least one Dutch translation may come from the fact that in older Italian comics Scrooge's butler was sometimes called Alberto rather than Battista. Anyway, in the English version of "Scrooge's Last Adventure" (published in Italy in 2013, and in the USA in 2016), translator Jonathan Gray and editor David Gerstein solved the contradiction of the character having two names (Albert and Quackmore) in American comics by saying that Albert is the first name and Quackmore the surname.
And speaking of names for Scrooge's butler(s): what is the original name of Scrooge's butler from this untitled 1954 story drawn by Bradbury? I only know that he is called Battista in the Italian translation.
Last Edit: May 6, 2017 15:59:50 GMT by drakeborough