Post by Monkey_Feyerabend on May 23, 2017 21:34:08 GMT
The presence of Ma Beagle does not exclude the possible use of Granpa' Beagle. I think they can get closer to the comics universe, if they want. But it is clear that the connection to the original series (the most known thing in the national market) is the priority. Don't forget that the series must capture the nostalgic viewers, now in their thirties...
As concerns me, I was not a fan of the series when I was a kid, but I am much interested in this new DT. And if they let Fethry show up, even for five seconds, I will be happy for the rest of my days!
I also dislike the presence of Ma Beagle, even though it's true that her presence doesn't exclude the possible use of Grandpa Beagle. Of course, the main problem is that Grandpa Beagle is mostly an Italian character, while he rarely appears in American comics. I would like to see him, but I would be satisfied with just having identical Beagles, even if their grandfather is not present. Unfortunately, I don't think this is going to happen.
That said, I like the fact that the 2013 video game "The Duckforce Rises" shows the Beagle Boys and Flintheart Glomgold as they appear in the comics. This is a sign that, no matter what DuckTales does, the changes made for tv series won't automatically appear whenever Uncle Scrooge comics are adapted into another media. The video game even has Grandpa Beagle (with the prison number 186-802, as in Barks' and Rosa's stories).
From the Tumblr account of Frank Agnones (story editor for the new DuckTales):
Q: Are you going to be making new Beagle Boys for the rebooted series? I always loved how ridiculously large Ma Beagle's family was.
A: Don’t see how you could do a Scrooge show without Beagles. Also love the opportunity to contrast how Ma treats her boys with how Scrooge treats his kids.
It’s all about family.
So it looks like we're going to get Beagle Boys more like the ones from the original series, rather than ones from the comics universe. Expected, I suppose, but a disappointing choice in my estimation.
The way to handle it, in my opinion, would be to have a large family of "different personality" Beagles as in the original show, but then have some of the more often seen ones be "the Triplets", three identical Beagle Boys who will look and behave like the comic ones.
The way to handle it, in my opinion, would be to have a large family of "different personality" Beagles as in the original show, but then have some of the more often seen ones be "the Triplets", three identical Beagle Boys who will look and behave like the comic ones.
While I dislike the fact that in the original show the Beagle Boys were given names, different designs and different personalities, at the same time I like the fact that there were many of them (I think the recurring Beagles in the show, not counting their mother, are seven, wich ironically is the same number Rosa settled on in the same year). I don't like the fact that in modern Italian stories (and maybe in Egmont stories?) they always use just three Beagles.
While I dislike the fact that in the original show the Beagle Boys were given names, different designs and different personalities, at the same time I like the fact that there were many of them (I think the recurring Beagles in the show, not counting their mother, are seven, wich ironically is the same number Rosa settled on in the same year). I don't like the fact that in modern Italian stories (and maybe in Egmont stories?) they always use just three Beagles.
That's the reason why I dislike modern stories which only use 3 of them. I prefer stories that show more than 3 Beagles, regardless of the exact number (I am even fine if the number changes from story to story).
That's the reason why I dislike modern stories which only use 3 of them. I prefer stories that show more than 3 Beagles, regardless of the exact number (I am even fine if the number changes from story to story).
Yes, Barks' main joke with The Beagle Boys was that they are all alike, and there as always a different amount of them, as they are needed for a story. They are all the same, all as incompetent and dull-brained as every other one. It is not all that funny to have only 3 that have well-defined characters and whose individual behaviour can be predicted. The absurdity of a myriad of similar-looking, bumbling, dimwitted, would-be thugs is very funny. We DON'T want to get to know them intimately. Then, we might start to feel empathy for them. We want them to be a symbol of the incompetent, dimwitted crook, who Scrooge can defeat time after time, and we can relish in his victories. We don't want to start pulling for the crooks as an underdog being taken advantage by shrewd mega milliardaire, Scrooge.
That's the reason why I dislike modern stories which only use 3 of them. I prefer stories that show more than 3 Beagles, regardless of the exact number (I am even fine if the number changes from story to story).
Yes, Barks' main joke with The Beagle Boys was that they are all alike, and there as always a different amount of them, as they are needed for a story. They are all the same, all as incompetent and dull-brained as every other one. It is not all that funny to have only 3 that have well-defined characters and whose individual behaviour can be predicted. The absurdity of a myriad of similar-looking, bumbling, dimwitted, would-be thugs is very funny. We DON'T want to get to know them intimately. Then, we might start to feel empathy for them. We want them to be a symbol of the incompetent, dimwitted crook, who Scrooge can defeat time after time, and we can relish in his victories. We don't want to start pulling for the crooks as an underdog being taken advantage by shrewd mega milliardaire, Scrooge.
To be fair, I knew it's a running joke that Beagle Boys act as clumpy thieves, but it's hard to believe they are really incompetent. They look pretty resourceful in Only a Poor Old Man and other stories.
Yes, Barks' main joke with The Beagle Boys was that they are all alike
The fact they they are identical in appearance and personality is a joke I really like, while I didn't enjoy DuckTales' Beagle Boys. The fact they they are essentially the same character split into multiple bodies (except for 176-167's liking of prunes) is something they have in common with Huey, Dewey and Louie, and I like the joke in Don Rosa's "The Incredible Shrinking Tightwad" when the Beagle Boys don't realize this (which is similar to other jokes when HDL don't realize they look alike):
It is not all that funny to have only 3 that have well-defined characters and whose individual behaviour can be predicted.
To be fair, the three Beagle Boys from modern Italian stories are also identical in appearance and personality, so their main joke has been kept, even though I'd like to see more than three of them.
Yes, Barks' main joke with The Beagle Boys was that they are all alike
The fact they they are identical in appearance and personality is a joke I really like, while I didn't enjoy DuckTales' Beagle Boys. The fact they they are essentially the same character split into multiple bodies (except for 176-167's liking of prunes) is something they have in common with Huey, Dewey and Louie, and I like the joke in Don Rosa's "The Incredible Shrinking Tightwad" when the Beagle Boys don't realize this (which is similar to other jokes when HDL don't realize they look alike):
It is not all that funny to have only 3 that have well-defined characters and whose individual behaviour can be predicted.
To be fair, the three Beagle Boys from modern Italian stories are also identical in appearance and personality, so their main joke has been kept, even though I'd like to see more than three of them.
Oh, don't get me wrong, I love that joke too. I'm just saying that if the reboot was going to acknowledge the DuckTales Beagle Boys anyway, which is defendable as this is "a new DuckTales" rather than "a new cartoon based on the comics", then they should have used the Lockman trick of having at least three identical, otherwise not quirky Beagle Boys be part of the crowd of differing Beagles, so as to keep some of the comic Beagle Boys intact.
That's the reason why I dislike modern stories which only use 3 of them. I prefer stories that show more than 3 Beagles, regardless of the exact number (I am even fine if the number changes from story to story).
Yes, Barks' main joke with The Beagle Boys was that they are all alike, and there as always a different amount of them, as they are needed for a story. They are all the same, all as incompetent and dull-brained as every other one. It is not all that funny to have only 3 that have well-defined characters and whose individual behaviour can be predicted. The absurdity of a myriad of similar-looking, bumbling, dimwitted, would-be thugs is very funny. We DON'T want to get to know them intimately. Then, we might start to feel empathy for them. We want them to be a symbol of the incompetent, dimwitted crook, who Scrooge can defeat time after time, and we can relish in his victories. We don't want to start pulling for the crooks as an underdog being taken advantage by shrewd mega milliardaire, Scrooge.
From this perspective, one can compare Ducktales with Sport Goofy in Soccermania (a pilar of my cultural education...I've seen it so many times when I was a kid that at a certain point the VHS took fire ):
as you may know, it was some kind of "pre-DuckTales" experiment. The cartoon had many equivalent Beagle Boys (except one, who was a bit more idiot than the others for comic purposes).
EDIT: watching it now in English I find the acting voices kind of bad...
Oh, don't get me wrong, I love that joke too. I'm just saying that if the reboot was going to acknowledge the DuckTales Beagle Boys anyway, which is defendable as this is "a new DuckTales" rather than "a new cartoon based on the comics", then they should have used the Lockman trick of having at least three identical, otherwise not quirky Beagle Boys be part of the crowd of differing Beagles, so as to keep some of the comic Beagle Boys intact.
Yes, I did understand that was your point, and I agree with you: since we can't have just the Beagle Boys from the comics, then having (at least) three identical Beagle Boys in addition to the DuckTales' Beagle Boys would be better than only having DuckTales' Beagle Boys.
From this perspective, one can compare Ducktales with Sport Goofy in Soccermania (a pilar of my cultural education...I've seen it so many times when I was a kid that at a certain point the VHS took fire ):
as you may know, it was some kind of "pre-DuckTales" experiment. The cartoon had many equivalent Beagle Boys (except one, who was a bit more idiot than the others for comic purposes).
I'm not sure if "Sport Goofy in Soccermania" is really a pre-DuckTales experiment. Sure, it aired shortly before DuckTales, and includes several comic book characters that never (or rarely) appeared in animation and which would reapper in DuckTales... but I don't have many info about the production of Soccermania, other than the fact that it was directed by Matthew O'Callaghan and Darrell Van Citters (uncredited), and written by Tad Stones, Michael Giaimo and Joe Ranft.
DuckTales, on the other hand, originated by an idea of Jymn Magon, who was a Barks fan and suggested the idea of a tv series based on Barks comics (which Disney didn't know very well). Magon gave Disney people a few books of the Carl Barks Library that was still in production at the time (its 30 volumes ran from 1983 to 1990), but they decided there was not much interesting material there (?!?!), which obviously puzzled Magon. Their reaction may be the reason why the tv series made so much pointless changes from the comics.
Post by Baar Baar Jinx on May 27, 2017 13:31:00 GMT
In Soccermania, the Beagle Boys are all identical, but two of them are singled out as "the twins". This is hilarious, akin to Rosa's jokes about their (and HD&L's) similarity. Another example of the latter: a Beagle Boy is told that "he inherited his father's good looks, not his (identical) brother!" Rosa's mastery of subtle humor is unparalleled.
May 27, 2017 6:55:24 GMT -4 drakeborough said:
DuckTales, on the other hand, originated by an idea of Jymn Magon, who was a Barks fan and suggested the idea of a tv series based on Barks comics (which Disney didn't know very well). Magon gave Disney people a few books of the Carl Barks Library that was still in production at the time (its 30 volumes ran from 1983 to 1990), but they decided there was not much interesting material there (?!?!), which obviously puzzled Magon. Their reaction may be the reason why the tv series made so much pointless changes from the comics.
Amazingly, this is the first time I've heard the story about how the idea for DuckTales originated at Disney, and confirms the suspicion I've long had that the work Gladstone Publishing/Another Rainbow was doing at the time was the inspiration. Do you have a source for this story?
In Soccermania, the Beagle Boys are all identical, but two of them are singled out as "the twins". This is hilarious, akin to Rosa's jokes about their (and HD&L's) similarity. Another example of the latter: a Beagle Boy is told that "he inherited his father's good looks, not his (identical) brother!" Rosa's mastery of subtle humor is unparalleled.
Amazingly, this is the first time I've heard the story about how the idea for DuckTales originated at Disney [...] Do you have a source for this story?
I got that info from a discussion on the Papersera Forum that took place in 2009 between Vito Stabile (who at the time was just a forum user and not yet a Disney author) and Don Rosa. I am copying the relevant bits below.
DON ROSA: I worked with the creator of "DuckTales" when we did "TaleSpin" -- same guy created both series. He was a Barks fan who suggested the idea of a TV show based on the old Barks comics that people at Disney were pretty much unaware of. He gave a set of the Another Rainbow $crooge reprint books to his head writers to help them create the show and plotlines for the episodes. He told me that when they had read all of those Barks stories, they returned and said "there's not much there" (which amazed him), and that's why they changed so much.
VITO STABILE: Hi, Don!
It's interesting for me the background on the creation of DuckTales (I thank you very much, I’m one of the greatest fan of it, but I don't know much about the cartoon's creation, only ‘cause no one has talk about it, neither magazines, nor TV.)
Who’s Barks’ fan? Alan Zaslove? Tad Stones? If you have some other curiosity about DuckTales, I would be very grateful to you.
DON ROSA: The creator of "DuckTales" was Jymn Magon. And sorry, that's the only detail he mentioned to me about the birth of "DuckTales", that being that his head writers, whoever they were, didn't think Barks' stories gave them much to work with. He knew I'd find that as incredible as he had.
In the same discussion another user asked Rosa if he would have worked for DuckTales had Disney asked him, and Rosa's answer includes another info that I think is not well-known:
>>>>>You said you wrote two episodes for "TaleSpin". If you could do it, would you have written also for "DuckTales" (maybe with some barks' quotation?)
Disney TV called me and asked me to work on "DuckTales", but I was busy making comics for Gladstone. When I was compelled to quit Gladstone due to the business of Disney telling Gladstone not to return my art, "DuckTales" was already out of production. But then Disney TV asked me to work on "TaleSpin".
Beside what I posted above, I could not find other info about the production of DuckTales: even Wikipedia, in the "Production" section of its article about DuckTales, only has info about broadcast dates, the number of episodes, the fact that it's the first Disney cartoon to be produced for syndication, the fact that they also made a movie of it and other facts of little interest. Given the popularity of the series (which started 30 years ago and ended 27 years ago) I wuld have expected to find on the web much more background info than just few lines of Don Rosa's secondhand account on an Italian forum.
The only other info I read (on the old Disney Comics Forum) is that, according to a user of that forum, Donald was removed from most episodes because Disney wasn't sure about DuckTales becoming successful and couldn't afford associating a major star and icon with a show that might have become a failure. If true, this debunks the often repeated idea that Donald's role was reduced because of his hard-to-understand duck voice from animation. The user who said that mentioned a discussion in another thread that supposedly had more info about this point, but the forum became defunct before I could check that thread.
Since we are discussing the procution of the original DuckTales, and since we recently discussed the character of Fenton (who essentially took Donald's place in many episodes and even looks simlar to Donald) I wonder: is GizmoDuck based on Paperinik? The Italian Wikipedia says that the analogy between GizmoDuck and Paperinik is probably a coincidence, since Paperinik is a character from Italian comics, but there's no source for this claim, which seems like a fan speculation (hence the "probably"). I don't think the reasoning is very solid: other elements from the series are taken from the Italian comics (colors of the clothes for Scrooge and the Beagle Boys, the coins being yellow, the Bin having curved walls and a dome, the Beagle Boys having gloves and said gloves being yellow), so it's not impossible that other things are also taken from Italian comics. Another point for which I would like to see some sources is the question of whether these Italian elements have something to do with the fact that Romano Scarpa did an animation test for the series or not.
confirms the suspicion I've long had that the work Gladstone Publishing/Another Rainbow was doing at the time was the inspiration.
I am not sure about that: Jymn Magon was born in 1949, so it's possible (and Rosa's words suggest it) that he was a Barks fan since childhood, way before Another Rainbow started the Carl Barks Library in 1983. Of course, if Magon wanted to introduce Disney people to Barks comics in order to suggest doing a series based on them, it is logical that Magon would give them the volumes of the Carl Barks Library rather than giving them hundreds of old Western issues that mix Barks stories and non-Barks stories. That said, the writers eventually used other sources to read some Barks stories, at least the late ones: for example, the Barks Library didn't publish "Micro-Ducks from Outer Space" until 1989, while DuckTales had already adapted it in 1987.
Of course, if the television department of Disney had a low opinion of Barks' comics, well, that doesn't speak too well of them.
Last Edit: May 27, 2017 17:10:14 GMT by drakeborough