"the nehews being one character split in three is one of the best and funniest things about them"
I don't necessarily disagree with that, but it needs to be done well, just as much as writing them separately is.
If them being three has no impact on anything and they are just a one character with three bodies, that's just bad bloat. If they are three, utilize that in the comic/cartoon- you don't need to separate the characters as such; but there needs to be a reason for there being three of them. Otherwise you might as well just use one of them and say the others are sick/visiting family.
Rosa and some of the other comic book artists are excellent at making the fact there are three of them count, despite them not having separate personalities. But most comic book stories starring them are bad at it.
Can you elaborate on this point? I find it strange, especially as Rosa himself often joked he wish he could "kill off" a nephew since the third one is useless and just more drawing work, tough of course he kept three of them since that's the tradition since 1937.
What do you mean that he made the fact that there are three of them count?
"the nehews being one character split in three is one of the best and funniest things about them"
I don't necessarily disagree with that, but it needs to be done well, just as much as writing them separately is.
If them being three has no impact on anything and they are just a one character with three bodies, that's just bad bloat. If they are three, utilize that in the comic/cartoon- you don't need to separate the characters as such; but there needs to be a reason for there being three of them. Otherwise you might as well just use one of them and say the others are sick/visiting family.
Rosa and some of the other comic book artists are excellent at making the fact there are three of them count, despite them not having separate personalities. But most comic book stories starring them are bad at it.
Can you elaborate on this point? I find it strange, especially as Rosa himself often joked he wish he could "kill off" a nephew since the third one is useless and just more drawing work, tough of course he kept three of them since that's the tradition since 1937.
What do you mean that he made the fact that there are three of them count?
Essentially, visually/or scenewise making use of all three. It can often be noted with Rosa that unless all three have something to provide, he'll often cut out the third brother from a panel. He'll make sure all three are visible on the first page they show up so you know they are all there.
Examples:
The first example gives the fact that they are three some visual interest(even if the third nephew isn't really needed). The second is a scene that actually requires there to be three characters.
But yeah, rereading, even Rosa and Barks are actually pretty bad at this too. You only need two nephews for pretty much any scenario of interest, and the third is almost always dead weight. Generally, the most use the third one brings is noticing things that are offpanel when the other two talk.
For the most part, there is almost nothing to be gained by having all three in there.
"the nehews being one character split in three is one of the best and funniest things about them"
Heck, even going back to this, I can't agree with it on closer inspection; Why is it one of the best and funniest things? If it's their similar behaviour, that can be done with just two, and better. If it is completing each others sentences, that also works with two of them.
The only benefit a third identical brother offers is a very rare visual gag. Rosa is pretty much correct in that cutting them down to two would be an improvement.
Post by Scrooge MacDuck on Jan 5, 2017 21:06:41 GMT
Sure, but I take three identical ones over three differenciated ones. I agree that two identical Huey and Dewey, and no Louie at all, could work just as well and probably better, but that is just not something anyone could change *now*.
Heck, even going back to this, I can't agree with it on closer inspection; Why is it one of the best and funniest things? If it's their similar behaviour, that can be done with just two, and better. If it is completing each others sentences, that also works with two of them.
Let's not forget what HD&L were originally created for: to make Donald's life miserable in the cartoons. As such, the more there are, the funnier it is, and making them all identical and indistinguishable from one another adds to the humor. It may not carry over perfectly into Barks/Rosa-type long adventures (where admittedly one nephew would suffice), but it's a funny reminder of the provenance of these characters. I'm glad Barks didn't take the Popeye route, where nephews were serially eliminated without explanation, or even the Gottfredson route, where Ferdie was sent off with a plan to return as a very different character. The only time giving HD&L dissimilar personalities was tried was in Quack Pack, and that didn't meet with much acclaim. I wish they had avoided it in this new series.
Heck, even going back to this, I can't agree with it on closer inspection; Why is it one of the best and funniest things? If it's their similar behaviour, that can be done with just two, and better. If it is completing each others sentences, that also works with two of them.
Let's not forget what HD&L were originally created for: to make Donald's life miserable in the cartoons. As such, the more there are, the funnier it is, and making them all identical and indistinguishable from one another adds to the humor. It may not carry over perfectly into Barks/Rosa-type long adventures (where admittedly one nephew would suffice), but it's a funny reminder of the provenance of these characters. I'm glad Barks didn't take the Popeye route, where nephews were serially eliminated without explanation, or even the Gottfredson route, where Ferdie was sent off with a plan to return as a very different character. The only time giving HD&L dissimilar personalities was tried was in Quack Pack, and that didn't meet with much acclaim. I wish they had avoided it in this new series.
"The only time giving HD&L dissimilar personalities was tried was in Quack Pack, and that didn't meet with much acclaim. "
And most takes on the Beagle Boys have had them have dissimilar personalities and pretty much all of them have been received positively. It was one of the strengths of Ducktales while the nephews was arguably a weakness. One misstep(making the nephews all 90s hip kids, rather than perhaps go for a more general archetype) does not mean that you should fear trying it again(heck, they did the nephews even worse in House of Mouse, where they are all a single non-speaking character who only has the "looking cool" thing).
Also, you could argue Rosa plays hard and loose with the nephews personalities. He usually has one that's the main exposition/inquring one and one that has the silly reactions/sarcastic quips(whenever Donald and Scrooge aren't there for that), with the third one mostly being filler(or providing a different reaction from the second nephew). His nephews quite often don't follow the "three characters in one" thing but rather they sorta skirt the line between that and the more "set of characteristics" deal the Beagle Boys have in european comics.
"It may not carry over perfectly into Barks/Rosa-type long adventures (where admittedly one nephew would suffice),"
Ducktales is primarily that style of cartoon series though.
"Let's not forget what HD&L were originally created for: to make Donald's life miserable in the cartoons. As such, the more there are, the funnier it is, and making them all identical and indistinguishable from one another adds to the humor."
But they weren't indistinguishable even back then, and that was clearly not a part of their joke. Even if you can't name who was who, you could still see the very visible color difference between them. Making them identical outside color was likely a choice to reduce work.
As long as the new Ducktales series doesn't feel the need to make the nephews "contemporary" and "cool", having them all work with a different archetype can easily work(Rosa and Barks already sorta had that thing going on in a way).
The Beagle Boys being different in DuckTales wasn't a great idea, and it's too bad they are doing it again. In the comics they are identical (minus 176-167's liking of prunes, and it only appears in two Barks stories and a few stories of Rosa); rwb seems to think they are often differentiated in the comics, but it seems to me this is a case of fans trying to see what is not there.
Plus, I don't see the deal with saying Rosa uses three nephews well and then saying "even Rosa and Barks are actually pretty bad at this too". Rosa thinks three nephews are too much, even Barks tought the same, but of course nobody can remove a nephew now.
The Beagle Boys being different in DuckTales wasn't a great idea, and it's too bad they are doing it again. In the comics they are identical (minus 176-167's liking of prunes, and it only appears in two Barks stories and a few stories of Rosa); rwb seems to think they are often differentiated in the comics, but it seems to me this is a case of fans trying to see what is not there.
Plus, I don't see the deal with saying Rosa uses three nephews well and then saying "even Rosa and Barks are actually pretty bad at this too". Rosa thinks three nephews are too much, even Barks tought the same, but of course nobody can remove a nephew now.
I agree; personally I intensely disliked the idea of dissimilar Beagle Boys in the original DuckTales. Giving them names was even worse (they refer to each other by their numbers in the comics, which I always found hilarious and appealing). The perception that dissimilar Beagle Boys were "always received positively" probably has more to do with the fact that, unlike HD&L, the Beagle Boys were not well known outside the comics before DuckTales, so those unfamiliar with the comics never realized that the Beagle Boys were not meant to be dissimilar. In their only previous animated appearance, Soccermania, they were essentially similar (there is a reference to "the twins", which I considered a joke since all the Beagle Boys were clones in that special; a little like Rosa's joke in "The Beagle Boys vs the Money Bin" were one Beagle brother was said to have inherited his father's good looks whereas the other did not ... and they all look identical! Rosa had a lot of fun in his stories with the Beagle Boys and HD&L being similar-looking).
I also agree that any differences between the Beagle Boys, and HD&L for that matter, in Barks and Rosa comics are inconsistent and probably more perceived than real. They are highly interchangable and their characterization varies from story to story, just like Scrooge's or Donald's does. To me, both the Beagle Boys and HD&L are one character each.
Oh, BTW, where was it confirmed that we will be seeing dissimilar Beagle Boys in the new DuckTales?
Oh, that thing. If only the same team had produced actual cartoons…
I've seen this before, but I don't know what it actually is. Is this an official Disney-commissioned piece of animation, or something Scarpa did on his own accord for some reason? Also, "Heigh-Ho" seems to be a strange choice of background music for an animated segment starring Duck and Mouse characters.
I'm also aware that Scarpa produced this sample of DuckTales test animation; from what I understand, he was attempting to get the job of supervising the animation on the show or something like that. Does anyone know anything more about this? In my opinion, the animation in this segment is actually superior to what we ultimately saw on the show, although I have no idea if they could have sustained it for every episode. I also am not sure what to make of Scrooge's strange trilling sound. We also get to see dissimilar Beagle Boys ... I guess that decision had already been made by this point.
I've seen this before, but I don't know what it actually is. Is this an official Disney-commissioned piece of animation, or something Scarpa did on his own accord for some reason? Also, "Heigh-Ho" seems to be a strange choice of background music for an animated segment starring Duck and Mouse characters.
From what I understand, that piece of animation was used to introduce every episode of Topolino show, an Italian TV show which aired on Rete 4 every Saturday from 8 November 1982 to 28 May 1983.
I'm also aware that Scarpa produced this sample of DuckTales test animation; from what I understand, he was attempting to get the job of supervising the animation on the show or something like that. Does anyone know anything more about this? In my opinion, the animation in this segment is actually superior to what we ultimately saw on the show, although I have no idea if they could have sustained it for every episode. I also am not sure what to make of Scrooge's strange trilling sound. We also get to see dissimilar Beagle Boys ... I guess that decision had already been made by this point.
According to the Italian Wikipedia (but the line is unsourced) Scarpa didn't get the job because Japanese animation was thought to be faster to produce than Italian animation. Anyway, I wonder if Scarpa doing a test for DuckTales has anything to do with the fact that the show took many element from Italian duck comics, like the Money Bin having curved walls and a dome, the colours of Scrooge's coat and the Beagle Boys' sweaters, the yellow coins, the Beagle Boys having gloves (also yellow) and so on.
Last Edit: Jan 7, 2017 17:24:24 GMT by drakeborough
I'm also aware that Scarpa produced this sample of DuckTales test animation; from what I understand, he was attempting to get the job of supervising the animation on the show or something like that. Does anyone know anything more about this? In my opinion, the animation in this segment is actually superior to what we ultimately saw on the show, although I have no idea if they could have sustained it for every episode. I also am not sure what to make of Scrooge's strange trilling sound. We also get to see dissimilar Beagle Boys ... I guess that decision had already been made by this point.
According to the Italian Wikipedia (but the line is unsourced) Scarpa didn't get the job because Japanese animation was thought to be faster to produce than Italian animation. Anyway, I wonder if Scarpa doing a test for DuckTales has anything to do with the fact that the show took many element from Italian duck comics, like the Money Bin having curved walls and a dome, the colours of Scrooge's coat and the Beagle Boys' sweaters, the yellow coins, the Beagle Boys having gloves (also yellow) and so on.
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About your questions: I think it very likely, and I'm very thankful for it. I love all the elements of Italian comics that made it (Scrooge's color scheme, the dome on the Bin, etc.).
About your questions: I think it very likely, and I'm very thankful for it. I love all the elements of Italian comics that made it (Scrooge's color scheme, the dome on the Bin, etc.).
I have nothing against the color schemes of Scrooge's coat or the Beagle Boys' sweaters, but colouring the coins yellow is a big mistake, as it is having the Beagle Boys wear gloves 24 hours a day.
Plus, I think the classic square Money Bin without a dome is better than the curved Bin with a dome from the Italian stories.
Anyway, it is said here that there was a strike in the Disney studios back in 1983, when there were talks of other branches being opened in other countries, with the possibility that they did their own animation products. The link says the strike caused the release of Mickey's Christmas Carol and A Day for Eeyore to be delayed. This is shortly after that bit of Italian animation I linked above (1982) aired.
Post by Scrooge MacDuck on Jan 7, 2017 20:09:45 GMT
I'm neutral on the Beagles having gloves (it makes sense since it seems to be in fashion in the Disney comics universe for people to wear gloves, but they look good either way). However, I have a very strong preference for the domed, red-blue-and-yellow Bin. It looks much more interesting and special than the rather bland grey cube.
As for the coins, I think they look better in gold, but I agree that it kind of goes against Barks's initial gag (that hilariously, Scrooge, having kept every coin he ever laid his hands on since 1867, now has a piggy bank of loose cash the size of an Olympic swimming pool), so again, I like both.
I'm neutral on the Beagles having gloves (it makes sense since it seems to be in fashion in the Disney comics universe for people to wear gloves, but they look good either way).
That's the problem with Italian (and maybe European in general) duck comics, they portray dognoses and pigs as always wearing gloves for no reason, even though that's not how they are portrayed in Barks comics. DuckTales did gave gloves to the Beagle Boys, and I don't like it, but at least they avoided giving it to everyone else.
However, I have a very strong preference for the domed, red-blue-and-yellow Bin. It looks much more interesting and special than the rather bland grey cube.
This is where we will agree to disagree: to me the cubic shape is just pure classic, while it is the curved bin with dome to look bland.
As for the coins, I think they look better in gold, but I agree that it kind of goes against Barks's initial gag (that hilariously, Scrooge, having kept every coin he ever laid his hands on since 1867, now has a piggy bank of loose cash the size of an Olympic swimming pool), so again, I like both.
As you say, the whole gag behind the money bin is that Scrooge keeps ordinary pocket change coins, so it's the whole content that is worth a lot, while a single bucket of them is not worth much. They are not supposed to be gold coins.