One interesting thing you might notice if you look at the tree is that "Donald" is a much-recurrent name on both sides of the family, which makes me wonder whether it was Hortense or Quackmore that named "our" Donald.
One interesting thing you might notice if you look at the tree is that "Donald" is a much-recurrent name on both sides of the family, which makes me wonder whether it was Hortense or Quackmore that named "our" Donald.
Don Rosa established that it was Quackmore (Hortense was reluctant to the idea). Maybe she was precisely against it because of the past McDuck Donalds who, not conforming to the tradition of stinginess, were a disgrace?
One interesting thing you might notice if you look at the tree is that "Donald" is a much-recurrent name on both sides of the family, which makes me wonder whether it was Hortense or Quackmore that named "our" Donald.
Well, according to the closing scene of Rosa's Lo$ part 10, it was Quackmore who wanted to name his future son Donald, while Hortense didn't like the name.
EDIT: I see that Scrooge MacDuck anticipated me in answering this question. At any rate, I don't think Hortsense (and Matilda) were ever stingy.
Last Edit: Jun 30, 2017 9:10:26 GMT by drakeborough
Yeah, I remember that scene, which made me assume it was Quackmore too.
In other news, I've found Miser McDuck ("A Fortune in Stingyville"), Jason Duck (mentioned in this Christmas special and apparently a business partner of Fergus McDuck), and Tom Duck (name-dropped in the same story that has Pieretto).
Also MAY have a lead on Kerababor and Bovspryd. According to Gilles' old explanatory table, the story that has Uncle Nicodemus/Gummo features some paintings of other McDuck ancestors, and the two pirates' pictures on the tree definitely look like paintings to me. I have no easy way of getting access to that story, so could someone double-check for me? Thanks.
In other news, I've found Miser McDuck ("A Fortune in Stingyville"), Jason Duck (mentioned in this Christmas special and apparently a business partner of Fergus McDuck), and Tom Duck (name-dropped in the same story that has Pieretto).
Is Scrooge's father mentioned in the original version of the Christmas story? In the Italian version there's no mention of Scrooge's father: Scrooge says that an associate of him was part of that company, and then reads the document who is written by one Melenio Paper, which is identified by Daisy as her great-uncle.
Oh, and I had forgotten about Tom Paper. Maybe it was because you only mentioned him by his first name, but also because you mentioned him as a great-uncle of Donald, while in the original version Tom is the cousin of Donald's grandfather Pietrino Paperino. Plus, Pieretto Paperetto is said to be a distant relative of Tom, and Grandma Duck a distant cousin of Pieretto Paperetto. But it's better if I quote myself:
I got hold of the story ("Paperino e la vecchia ricevuta", 1967, text by Carlo Chendi and art by Luciano Gatto), and there's no reference to Grandma and Scrooge being sibilings in the original Italian version. Since you said there's a reference to that in the Dutch version, it must have been added by the Dutch translator. Can you tell me the page and panel in which the reference is present?
That said, we are not off-topic if we discuss that story here because I saw that it contains multiple mentions of the very subject of this thread: Donald's grandfather.
This is the plot of the story (I'll include many spoilers): while looking for a costume for a masked ball, Donald finds his grandfather's uniform when he was part of the 7th Cavalry Regiment. Inside the uniform's cap there's a receipt belonged to Pietrino Paperino (his name can be translated as Little-Peter Little-Duck, and is similar to Donald Duck's Italian name, Paolino Paperino, which means Little-Paul Little-Duck. I guess the logical English localized name of Pietrino Paperino would be Peter Duck). According to the receipt, Peter Duck had loaned Scrooge ten dollars so that Scrooge could buy an equipment to be a gold prospector in the Klondike (Soapy Slick is reading this and says hi); in exchange for the loan, Scrooge had to repay Peter with half of the gold he would find in the Klondike plus the interests. And since all of Scrooge's money directly or indirectly derives from the gold he found in the Klondike, half of Scrooge's money now belongs to the heir of the late Peter Duck, which is Donald Duck. Scrooge decides to do a research on Peter's will, and finds out that he left everything to his grandson, Donald Duck, with the exception of his uniform which was left to Peter's cousin Tom Paper (Peter and Tom were both part of the 7th Cavalry Regiment). Since Donald found the receipt in Peter's uniform's cap, Scrooge concludes that Donald doesn't own it. Tom Paper is dead, and in his will he left everything (i.e. Peter's uniform) to his distant relative Pieretto Paperetto, who is still alive and tells Scrooge that he gave up his inheritance in favour of Grandma Duck who is a distant cousin of him. Grandma Duck tells Scrooge that a mysterious benefactor once gave her the money to rebuild her farm (which had been destroyed by a fire) without revealing his identity: he didn't expect to be refunded, but she still decided to gave him something, and she gave him the rights on that uniform. The benefactor was actually Scrooge, and now that he owns the uniform and the receipt contained in it, Donald doesn't own anymore half of Scrooge's money and even has to repay him of the 10 million dollars he already spent. The story ends with an example of Writers Cannot Do Math, as Scrooge wrongly says that, if Donald pays him one dollar per day, it would take him about 27,387 years and six months to pay the whole debt.
I won't upload every panel in which Donald's grandfather is mentioned, but I will at least upload the panels where he actually appears:
SCROOGE: Hi, Peter!
PETER: Scrooge, my boy! How did it go for you? Did you find the gold?
SCROOGE: Yes, and I came to pay my debt with half of the gold I found!
PETER: Are you kidding? I don't want it!
SCROOGE: But you lend me those ten dollars and...
PETER: It was you who insisted to sign the receipt! I gave you those ten dollars as a gift! So, keep your gold!
SCROOGE: Thanks, Peter!
PETER: You are a good boy, and you really deserve to make a fortune!
SCROOGE: I was so moved that I forgot to tell him to destroy the receipt! I am sure he forgot too!
I can also confirm that what I read about Grandma Duck's name is true: in this story, she is actually referred to as Genoveffa Papera ("Genevieve Duck"):
SCROOGE: Then you are the heir of Tom Paper!
PIERETTO PAPERETTO: Yes, but I gave up that inheritance in favout of a distant cousin of mine. Genevieve Duck!
SCROOGE: It's Grandma Duck!
PIERETTO PAPERETTO: ?
By the way, now that I think about it, I am not sure that what I said in the first paragraph of this message is 100% true. Peter is never said to be Grandma Duck's late husband, and it seems he is not since his heir is Donald and not Grandma Duck; plus, we are told Grandma Duck is the distant cousin of the distant relative of a cousin of Peter, so it seems the two of them are basically unrelated. Every family tree has two sides, and if Peter was Donald's grandfather but was unrelated to both Scrooge and Grandma Duck then it seems that, in the context of this story, Peter belonged to one side of Donald's family tree and both Scrooge and Grandma belong to the other. If Scrooge and Grandma are implied to belong to the same side of Donald's family tree, then it's possible that Chendi did think of Scrooge and Grandma as sibilings when writing this story. Maybe. Or maybe I am seeing too much into this issue despite the fact that this is just a story written in a period when writers didn't always think too hard about what they were doing and often had no idea of what exactly they were implying.
Also MAY have a lead on Kerabab and Bovspryd. According to Gilles' old explanatory table, the story that has Uncle Nicodemus/Gummo features some paintings of other McDuck ancestors, and the two pirates' pictures on the tree definitely look like paintings to me. I have no easy way of getting access to that story, so could someone double-check for me? Thanks.
I checked the story on Topolino #1712: the first thing to be noted about the story is that, even though it's officially a DuckTales comic, it has actually nothing to suggest that it takes place in the show's continuity rather than in the traditional comic book continuity, since it only features Scrooge, Donald and HDL. Indeed, Inducks has a note saying "not a real DT story", and the Italian title even removed the reference to DuckTales, using a standard title ("Zio Paperone al castello del monello"): I wish this has been done more often in DuckTales comics, and maybe even in the upcoming reboot. Looking at the first page, I see that Scrooge talks about "castello dei Paperi" ("castle of the Ducks"), which doesn't make sense, while I see the American scan refers to the McDucks.
Anyway, we are shown four paintings: Paperardo Cuor di Leone, Paperin Errante, Penna d'Usignolo and Paper Mac Paper; the latter also appears in a flashback with young Scrooge, who has a design similar to Rosa's young Scrooge (i.e., he looks like HDL). None of these characters is Kerababor or Bovsprydor:
As for Grandma's brother Gus: could it be that Maurice confused him with Grandma's uncle Gus, who is mentioned in this 1944 stip by Karp and Taliaferro?
You know, in gratitude I think I will make a table of all I've found so far. Might take a while, but it'll definitely come!
P.S. The mustachioed duck in Paperetto's story is apparently called Jeremias von And/Jeremiah McDuck in at least the Danish version, and is said to be Scrooge's uncle; this seems to be what Gilles used. My source for this is Asger Pedersen's site.
Last Edit: Jun 30, 2017 21:52:58 GMT by stuftmcduck
You know, in gratitude I think I will make a table of all I've found so far. Might take a while, but it'll definitely come!
I guess a more ambitious work would be trying to write a complete explanatory table. This would compensate for the fact that the table under the current version of the tree has been "under construction" since about 2006, when Gilles Maurice's website stopped being updated for unknown reasons.
Of course, such a table would require an enormous amount of work.
P.S. The mustachioed duck in Paperetto's story is apparently called Jeremias von And/Jeremiah McDuck in at least the Danish version, and is said to be Scrooge's uncle; this seems to be what Gilles used. My source for this is Asger Pedersen's site.
In the original version, he is called Pietrino Paperino and is said to be Donald's grandfather. Of course, this creates some problems because Pietrino is unrelated to Scrooge and also doesn't seem to be Grandma Duck's late husband. Maybe the story uses the old idea that Scrooge and Grandma are sibilings and thus belong to the same side of Donald's family tree, with Pietrino belonging to the other side. Or maybe the writer didn't know what he was doing. At any rate, I don't think I need to add other details since the old quote of mine that I have copied here should explain everything about the original version.
Paper Mac Paper is explicitly stated being Scrooge's uncle.
He is called "grande zio" two times, which seems a translation mistake: "grande zio" is a literal translation of "great uncle", except that "prozio" is the correct wod for "great uncle", while "grande zio" would just indicate an uncle who is a great guy. The world "prozio" is later used by HDL, which is also strange because if Paper is HDL's great-uncle he would be of the same generation as Scrooge. If Paper is Scrooge's uncle, he would be HDL's great-great-uncle, while if he is Scrooge's great-uncle, then he is HDL's great-great-great-uncle.
EDIT: I corrected a mistake in the last paragraph.
Last Edit: Jul 1, 2017 11:34:45 GMT by drakeborough
You know, in gratitude I think I will make a table of all I've found so far. Might take a while, but it'll definitely come!
I guess a more ambitious work would be trying to write a complete explanatory table. This would compensate for the fact that the table under the current version of the tree has been "under construction" since about 2006, when Gilles Maurice's website stopped being updated for unknown reasons.
Of course, such a table would require an enormous amount of work.
P.S. The mustachioed duck in Paperetto's story is apparently called Jeremias von And/Jeremiah McDuck in at least the Danish version, and is said to be Scrooge's uncle; this seems to be what Gilles used. My source for this is Asger Pedersen's site.
In the original version, he is called Pietrino Paperino and is said to be Donald's grandfather. Of course, this creates some problems because Pietrino is unrelated to Scrooge and also doesn't seem to be Grandma Duck's late husband. Maybe the story uses the old idea that Scrooge and Grandma are sibilings and thus belong to the same side of Donald's family tree, with Pietrino belonging to the other side. Or maybe the writer didn't know what he was doing. At any rate, I don't think I need to add other details since the old quote of mine that I have copied here should explain everything about the original version.
Paper Mac Paper is explicitly stated being Scrooge's uncle.
He is called "grande zio" two times, which seems a translation mistake: "grande zio" is a literal translation of "great uncle", except that "prozio" is the correct wod for "great uncle", while "grande zio" would just indicate an uncle who is a great guy. The world "prozio" is later used by HDL, which is also strange because if Paper is HDL's great-uncle he would be of the same generation as Scrooge. If Paper is Scrooge's uncle, he would be HDL's great-great-great-uncle, while if he is Scrooge's great-uncle, then he is HDL's great-great-great-great-uncle.
Is Paper MacPaper Gummo McDuck? Because the English version is clear that Gummo was Scrooge's uncle.
Is Paper MacPaper Gummo McDuck? Because the English version is clear that Gummo was Scrooge's uncle.
Paper Mac Paper is the practical joker mentioned as early as the first page, and seen in a flashback with young Scrooge in addition to a painting. The English scan is very small so I can't see if he is called Gummo or not in that version. If he is said to be Scrooge's uncle in the English version, then "grande zio" was just a way to express Scrooge's admiration for him, something that would make sense in the context of the story. HDL referring to him as "prozio" ("great-uncle") is still strange, though: either they should call him "pro-prozio" ("great-great-uncle") or they should just call him "zio" ("uncle") for short.
By the way, I noticed a mistake in the last paragraph of my previous message while I was publishing it, but I couldn't stop the "Create Post" command, and for various reasons it took me almost two hours before I had the time to edit it. I edited it now, even though of course the version quoted in your message is the one with the mistake.
Is Paper MacPaper Gummo McDuck? Because the English version is clear that Gummo was Scrooge's uncle.
Paper Mac Paper is the practical joker mentioned as early as the first page, and seen in a flashback with young Scrooge in addition to a painting. The English scan is very small so I can't see if he is called Gummo or not in that version. If he is said to be Scrooge's uncle in the English version, then "grande zio" was just a way to express Scrooge's admiration for him, something that would make sense in the context of the story. HDL referring to him as "prozio" ("great-uncle") is still strange, though: either they should call him "pro-prozio" ("great-great-uncle") or they should just call him "zio" ("uncle") for short.
By the way, I noticed a mistake in the last paragraph of my previous message while I was publishing it, but I couldn't stop the "Create Post" command, and for various reasons it took me almost two hours before I had the time to edit it. I edited it now, even though of course the version quoted in your message is the one with the mistake.
Yes, it is "Gummo McDuck" in English. The castle is said to have belonged to Gummo and served as a "summer residence" for all the McDucks.