In any case she must be some cool character doing some cool stuff in some cool place. Otherwise, why would she leave her sons to his brother.
Well, that's one of the issues with bringing Della back into the main continuity, and one of the problems Rosa mentioned. Gallivanting around the world on adventures while leaving your brother to raise your kids could easily be construed as abandonment or irresponsible parenting. The "Della in Space" story tried to circumvent this (as I understand it) by having Della not know that she was gone for years instead of just minutes (the whole idea has always struck me as somewhat childish and simplistic, but I seem to be in the minority on this since a lot of people on this forum seem to like it). But if they bring her back to adventure with Scrooge, Donald and HD&L in the "present day", as seems to be in store in the DuckTales story in question, how do they explain why she isn't raising her sons from this point on?
I probably count in your mind as a person on this forum who likes the idea of Della in space. Let me clarify that I'm not down on the "What? No one told me about time dilation!" aspect of Geradts' plot. My godson's theory was that Della and the boys' father were for some reason uniquely qualified (chosen by the aliens?) to represent Earth diplomatically to aliens who could threaten the planet. I thought this was pretty clever for a ten-year-old, because it allowed HDL's parents to be alive while dealing with the two major problems if they are alive: (1) why they haven't been in contact with the boys and (2) how they could abandon the boys--go somewhere where they knew they'd be out of contact for years--without being horrible people and deadbeat parents. My godson's solution had them somewhere where they would be definitely out of contact for years. And it gave them the only truly acceptable reason for abandoning your children for years: saving the whole friggin' planet.
So this narrative solution more or less made it into my headcanon. The same way that Rosa apparently has had a vague notion about the boys' parents having been stranded in the vicinity of Tralla La. Or the way the Paperinik fanfic Scrooge MacDuck mentions had Della on a several-year scientific mission to the North Pole (though you'd think in that case she would have been in contact with them!). As Rob says, being marooned on a desert island is another option (presumably the family would have been told the ship went down, everyone drowned--otherwise they would have been looking for her/them). It's more complicated if you think HDL's father is alive and cares about them--then you have to come up with a narrative that accounts for both of them. And it's more complicated if you set the stories in the present, when there are fewer ways of being kept out of contact with the outside world for years when you're on the planet (at least, ways that don't involve human evil of a sort we don't want to imagine operating in the Duckiverse).
Post by Baar Baar Jinx on Jul 22, 2017 1:21:32 GMT
Well, actually, back when we discussed it on the old DCF, I think I was the only one who didn't like it. I remember your telling us how your godson came up with a similar explanation for HD&L's parents' absence, and that was one of the reasons you liked the idea so much. My objection has always been that it's a story that seems to be tailored to kids (or a story one would tell kids to gloss over the fact that their parents are dead or derelict) and, like Rosa, I like to take a more "adult" view of the Duck universe. But the idea that Della is in the military could work, I have to admit. Or maybe in the new series, Della is the one who joins the navy and leaves the kids with Donald (who then apparently moves them all in with Scrooge)? Still, it's one thing for an uncle to leave the kids with a granduncle, and quite another for a parent to leave them with an uncle. And where is the father in all this? It'll be interesting to see what DuckTales '17 does with all this, as long as it's contained within this discrete "universe" and not presumed to be an "official" explanation superseding everything else.
Well, in your message just above you seemed to be complaining mostly about the time dilation aspect of Geradt's "Della in space" narrative, so that's why I responded to that issue. Now I understand that by "the whole idea" you meant not the time dilation piece but the idea that Della was in outer space. To each their own, of course, in terms of what fits into your headcanon. There've been plenty of stories (including Barksian stories) about the Ducks interacting with aliens in one way or another, so it doesn't seem so outré in my Duckworld.
I am also very interested to see how DuckTales '17 deals with HDL's parents, what explanation it gives for Della's years-long absence (incommunicado), and whether it says anything at all about the boys' father. And like you, I hope whatever they come up with is not granted "official" status outside of DuckTales. I'm pretty hopeful that the lack of official canon in the world of Disney Duck comics will prevent this from happening.
Well, in your message just above you seemed to be complaining mostly about the time dilation aspect of Geradt's "Della in space" narrative, so that's why I responded to that issue. Now I understand that by "the whole idea" you meant not the time dilation piece but the idea that Della was in outer space. To each their own, of course, in terms of what fits into your headcanon. There've been plenty of stories (including Barksian stories) about the Ducks interacting with aliens in one way or another, so it doesn't seem so outré in my Duckworld.
Yes, I dislike the whole "Della in Space" concept, the time dilation part just makes it even worse (in my mind). As to there being several Duck stories with space aliens, yes, but you can choose to "blip" over those if you don't like the idea. When it comes to a fundamental question like the fate of HD&L's parents, you don't have that option if the official explanation is that "they're in space". But I accept that most people are fine with it, even embrace it, and yes, to each their own.
Of course, we don't know what the producers of DuckTales are planning to do, so we can't judge them yet. Maybe they plan to change the status quo and having Della's return be, in the continuity of the series at least, permanent. It wouldn't be the only time in which an animated product tries to change the status quo.
At the D23 Expo panel, Angones put emphasis on how much Donald's struggles with raising the kids as a single father appealed to him as a parent, and stated that it was one of the main reasons he was so excited to be able to use him more than the original series had. So I doubt their intention is to bring Della back full time. It's possible, of course, that the production teams for the animated series and the comics are working independently off their own ideas.
Well, actually, back when we discussed it on the old DCF, I think I was the only one who didn't like it. I remember your telling us how your godson came up with a similar explanation for HD&L's parents' absence, and that was one of the reasons you liked the idea so much. My objection has always been that it's a story that seems to be tailored to kids (or a story one would tell kids to gloss over the fact that their parents are dead or derelict) and, like Rosa, I like to take a more "adult" view of the Duck universe. But the idea that Della is in the military could work, I have to admit. Or maybe in the new series, Della is the one who joins the navy and leaves the kids with Donald (who then apparently moves them all in with Scrooge)? Still, it's one thing for an uncle to leave the kids with a granduncle, and quite another for a parent to leave them with an uncle. And where is the father in all this? It'll be interesting to see what DuckTales '17 does with all this, as long as it's contained within this discrete "universe" and not presumed to be an "official" explanation superseding everything else.
This leads to the following assumptions: (1) that their father ran away from his wife and children; (2) their parents were divorced, and the father ran away from his responsibilities towards his children; (3) their father is in prison, a mental hospital, or is otherwise institutionalised for being incompetent for one of various possible reasons due to injury or disease; or (4) he is deceased ; or (5) their mother had them out of wedlock, and the father is shirking his fatherly responsibilities, or their mother never told the father of their birth, as she didn't want him to play a part in their lives (as he was an unsavoury character, and/or wasn't approved of by Della's parents. None of these scenarios are able to be considered, given Disney's rules.
Post by Baar Baar Jinx on Jul 22, 2017 13:06:32 GMT
Is anyone still seriously entertaining the "firecracker under the chair" story in their headcanon? Or are we dismissing that as a now-abandoned concept that resulted from the relationships being nebulous in the early days?
I would go with scenario 5 in Robb's list, which is a commonplace situation and generally considered acceptable today, although probably not in the '30s and '40s, and probably still not today in a Disney product. Also to be taken into account is the early Taliaferro strip where HD&L are shown praying for both their parents to be blessed, which would invalidate both scenarios 4 and 5 (come to think of it, prayer itself would probably not be shown in a Disney comic today, either).
Well, in your message just above you seemed to be complaining mostly about the time dilation aspect of Geradt's "Della in space" narrative, so that's why I responded to that issue. Now I understand that by "the whole idea" you meant not the time dilation piece but the idea that Della was in outer space. To each their own, of course, in terms of what fits into your headcanon. There've been plenty of stories (including Barksian stories) about the Ducks interacting with aliens in one way or another, so it doesn't seem so outré in my Duckworld.
Yes, I dislike the whole "Della in Space" concept, the time dilation part just makes it even worse (in my mind). As to there being several Duck stories with space aliens, yes, but you can choose to "blip" over those if you don't like the idea. When it comes to a fundamental question like the fate of HD&L's parents, you don't have that option if the official explanation is that "they're in space". But I accept that most people are fine with it, even embrace it, and yes, to each their own.
Oh, that's interesting! You blip over all the aliens. I'm very fond of Muchkale and the Micro-Ducks. So that fantastic/scifi aspect is part of my Duckiverse. I assume Rosa accepts the Barksian aliens, too, as he created his own aliens. He didn't cotton to my godson's theory, of course--said it seemed to much like a silly superhero story. I can see that. I still think it's about the only way to have HDL's parents be alive, not horrible parents, and not able to communicate regularly or to show up any time soon to take HDL away from Donald (or at least move in with them). I don't see how even Tralla La can meet all these requirements. Which is probably why Rosa never wrote a story about that scenario, in spite of the countless fan requests he got to write about HDL's parents!
In my headcanon, I'm actually OK with the possibility of HDL's parents being dead, too. In either case (death or disappearance, far far away), I can understand HDL's destructive behavior when they first lived with Donald (WHADDALOTTAJARGON. earlier Barks stories) as a common grief symptom in kids. I don't accept the Taliaferro strips or cartoons as canon, so I don't have to believe they were destructive when they lived with their parents. I know Barks had a more Taliaferro-compatible idea in his head about the boys' background, but I don't feel bound by that, either.
Is anyone still seriously entertaining the "firecracker under the chair" story in their headcanon? Or are we dismissing that as a now-abandoned concept that resulted from the relationships being nebulous in the early days?
I would go with scenario 5 in Robb's list, which is a commonplace situation and generally considered acceptable today, although probably not in the '30s and '40s, and probably still not today in a Disney product. Also to be taken into account is the early Taliaferro strip where HD&L are shown praying for both their parents to be blessed, which would invalidate both scenarios 4 and 5 (come to think of it, prayer itself would probably not be shown in a Disney comic today, either).
This is correct. As I understand it, portrayal of praying in a government publication would be a violation of the separation of church and state. So, even a private company, like Disney, would want to be politically correct, and not foist the unwanted portrayal of religious rites of "The People of The Book" on Atheists and Agnostics, thereby depriving them of their rights to avoid being underrepresented in the media.
On Della in the military: I don't know how common it is today (certainly not in the 1950's) for a single mother to deploy and leave her kids with relatives. If that happens, it would probably be grandparents who would keep the kids, but there are no grandparents as Della and Donald's parents are almost certainly dead. The scenario of Della being in the military doesn't explain why we haven't heard anything about/from her, and it also doesn't answer the problem of what happens when she comes back. Does she reclaim the kids from Donald, or do they all move in together?
I do think DuckTales is much freer to pursue such a scenario--or any of several other possible scenarios involving Della--than the comics are. For one thing, DuckTales doesn't have a backlog of thousands of stories where HDL are living with Donald their guardian and there is zero indication that their mother is alive, that they know where she is or have any contact with her. If DuckTales wants to rewrite history in this way, they're totally free to do so.
Incidentally, on Della and Donald being twins: you could argue that a mother might be more likely to leave her children in the custody of a twin than in the custody of an unmarried brother who's not her twin. True, there are no other members of her immediate family alive, but I'm saying if she had a choice about leaving (enlisting?), she might be more likely to be OK with that choice if she were leaving the kids with a twin, someone she had been constantly with as a child.
Another DuckTales twist, of course, is that the kids are not living with Donald, they're living with Scrooge. Even though Donald has now moved his houseboat into Scrooge's pond. So did Della leave town knowing the kids would live with Scrooge?
Oh, that's interesting! You blip over all the aliens. I'm very fond of Muchkale and the Micro-Ducks. So that fantastic/scifi aspect is part of my Duckiverse. I assume Rosa accepts the Barksian aliens, too, as he created his own aliens.
Yes, I read and can enjoy stories with aliens (if they're good, which is not always the case), but they don't become "real" to me or enter my headcanon (like stories that mix the Ducks and Mice, or stories that feature Donald as Duck Avenger but otherwise take place in everyday Duckburg). Rosa's use of such fantastic elements is, I would argue, out-of-character with his otherwise "real-world" view of the Duck universe; perhaps he "blips" as a writer when he does them (has anyone ever asked him about this?). Perhaps he feels he can do it since Barks did. One could argue that the whole character of Magica, even as a mortal who practices sorcery, is similarly at odds with a realistic universe (as well as Gyro's most outrageous inventions) so I acknowledge it's a fine line.
He didn't cotton to my godson's theory, of course--said it seemed to much like a silly superhero story. I can see that. I still think it's about the only way to have HDL's parents be alive, not horrible parents, and not able to communicate regularly or to show up any time soon to take HDL away from Donald (or at least move in with them). I don't see how even Tralla La can meet all these requirements. Which is probably why Rosa never wrote a story about that scenario, in spite of the countless fan requests he got to write about HDL's parents!
Did you actually communicate with him about it? I agree with his view on it, but also yours, that whatever Tralla La story he was thinking of with regards to HD&L's parents would potentially suffer the same criticism. In my "real world" Duckburg, Della has to be dead, there's really nothing else that fits.
I know Barks had a more Taliaferro-compatible idea in his head about the boys' background, but I don't feel bound by that, either.
Did Barks ever say anything about that? I am unaware.
Another DuckTales twist, of course, is that the kids are not living with Donald, they're living with Scrooge. Even though Donald has now moved his houseboat into Scrooge's pond. So did Della leave town knowing the kids would live with Scrooge?
I honestly doubt, based on everything Angones has said so far, that they're going to have Della come back and resume care of HD&L. Thus, I am baffled by this decision to bring Della back, and wonder if it's something the comics writers came up with on their own, or was a mistake after all (and maybe they really meant Matilda McDuck?). Also, I'm not sure why, with Donald still an active participant, they felt the need to have everyone move in with Scrooge anyway. But ... it's an alternate universe!
But coming back to the idea of HD&L's father: I've been thinking about this and really, would Disney still be averse, in 2017, to portraying Della as a single mother by default (i.e., no father shown or mentioned)? After all, kids today probably have friends who are growing up in single-mother homes, and it doesn't carry the stigma that it did 50 years ago. Gerardts kind of did this already, when he had Della show up to drop the kids off with Donald before flying into space, with no mention of a father (and Donald doesn't even ask). The political atmosphere, in the US at least, has gradually gone from socially conservative to liberal-progressive, especially in the "creative community" (Hollywood, publishing houses), and Marvel and DC have introduced LGBT characters. Even Archie Comics, once seen as a bastion of "wholesome conservative values" and who once put out a line of Christian comics starring their flagship characters (imagine that happening today!), recently introduced a gay character with much fanfare and won widespread acclaim for it. And J K Rowling openly talks about Dumbledore being gay (although she never put LGBT elements into her books, even in "The Cursed Child" where she seemed to hint towards it until the very end). All this, in literature aimed at children and teens. Since it's all about inclusivism, and the promotion of non-traditional families, why not single mother Della to make kids of single mothers feel represented? Actually, I'm kind of surprised there hasn't been announcement of an LGBT character in the new DuckTales yet, a true sign of "modernization". It certainly isn't a risk to have a gay character these days, so it seems like low-hanging fruit for Disney to do that.