(2) I believe such creatures are called "goofs" in American use.
I don't know... I do remember seeing lines like "he's just a goof" in the Super Goof series, but it seemed to me that the term was used like it would be used in real life, i.e. to indicate "he's just an ordinary fool". The term pippide (whose first use was probably in this 2006 series) seems to carry the implication of characters being somehow a "copy" of Goofy, or the implication of Goofy playing different characters. That's why pippide is a term found in reviews of Goofy classic shorts. A similar but fan-made term is pietride ("peteid" ), used to refer to the various incarnation/clones of Pete, mainly found in animation but also, more rarely, in comics.
I'm not talking about official use; but I do recall some article or other on the Internet describing the Goofy cartoons by saying something to the effect of "If the title character was Mickey or Donald you'd get good old Goofy, but if Goofy was on the title card, not only would you get the main Goofy, but everyone else would be a Goof."
"Pippide" is more used to refer to Goofy's family- in the story linked it comes out they are a parallel off-shot of evolution since day-1. Like Neanderthals, but with a much better fashion sense.
"Pippide" is more used to refer to Goofy's family- in the story linked it comes out they are a parallel off-shot of evolution since day-1.
It started that way, true, but then the term evolved to indicate various alter egos of Goofy, mainly present in animation. Even "pietride" refers to Pete's "clones" rather than Pete's relatives.
Whatevs*, you have done a very beautiful job with that page! I cannot believe there are so many Goofy and Clarabelle coming from the 40's and 50's!
Two important missing in your list: Mickey's crazy uncle Gudger, relevant as coming from Walsh& Gott, and Goofy's brother Pappo (Gaffy?) invented by Scarpa.
(*By the way, only now I realize that you are not the user named Whatever who has slightly changed his nick... )
Double thank you! Gudger I was aware of to be missing, but Gaffy is a new find to me. Never knew Goofy has a brother. I'll add him soon. And I just realized, one character not mentioned from the Gottfredson era is Clarabelle's maternal grandfather Durham, to whom the gold belongs in "Race for Riches". Though we don't get a picture, I think he marks the first time (1935) Clarabelle's family gets explored.
As far as Mouseton's structure goes, it's located seaside. Dryupp University generally seems to be depicted as part of Mouseton. Doc Static's laboratory, an observatory, is rather notable. There's Bassett Estate, Bird's Nest Mountain, anything mentioned in "The Midnight Mysteries", the dog tracks, and so on. There's a lot of fiction that adds something.
Clarabelle has one cousin, Boinifácio, on Brazil, whose shtick is being very unlucky.
She's got at least one Aunt, as seen in various Italian stories, who was a high-society eccentric woman with whom Clarabelle lived as a kid.
I haven't seen stories with this aunt, but I feel I am going to dislike her for making Clarabelle yet another example of a character being needlessly shown to have been raised by someone else instead of their parents.
That'd be Nerissa Cow, from a series starting with "Clarabella e l'eccentrica Zia Nena". The series is based on the Auntie Mame novels and as far as I can tell not directly compatible with "regular" fiction involving Clarabelle. It also offers a minimal take on Clarabelle's father, Camillo, who is nothing like Beeble, except for that they both appear to be politicians(?). Beeble's easily the superior character. Though mind one of the Dutch comics featuring Maw Cow implies her husband's been dead for a while.
Thank you for confirming the Nataniele Ragnatele / Heath O'Hara matter.
(2) I believe such creatures are called "goofs" in American use.
I don't know... I do remember seeing lines like "he's just a goof" in the Super Goof series, but it seemed to me that the term was used like it would be used in real life, i.e. to indicate "he's just an ordinary fool". The term pippide (whose first use was probably in this 2006 series) seems to carry the implication of characters being somehow a "copy" of Goofy, or the implication of Goofy playing different characters. That's why pippide is a term found in reviews of Goofy classic shorts. A similar but fan-made term is pietride ("peteid" ), used to refer to the various incarnation/clones of Pete, mainly found in animation but also, more rarely, in comics.
(3) May I point to "Mayor Beeble", Clarabelle's father in W OS 468-02?
I guess that's one of the two reasons for which there aren't too many mothers and fathers in Dissney comics: with so many writers/artists working independently from each other, the risk of characters getting multiple mothers/multiple fathers is high.
The other reason being more important, owing to the fact that Disney had few parents in their animated feature films and short cartoons long before Western had a large staff working on comic book stories with different writers working on the same characters.
The other reason being more important, owing to the fact that Disney had few parents in their animated feature films and short cartoons long before Western had a large staff working on comic book stories with different writers working on the same characters.
The animated features rarely have parents because being orphaned is a good drive for initial drama (the happy ending wouldn't be as fulfilling if the character had started out with a happy family, except if it was an unkind family and Disney was unwilling to delve into that kind of darkness). The cartoons didn't have the taboo against parents (see Goofy/George Geef as a father, Daisy's parents in Donald's Diary), and their rarity, methinks, is only a side-effect of the general lack of relatives in animation. Only Gus and HDL were featured in the cartoons in the way of Duck relatives (not a single uncle or aunt, even though the comics would later have 'uncle' be the go-to relationship to introduce a new relative), and aside from a brief mention of his mother, not a single relative of Mickey ever appeared.
The other reason being more important, owing to the fact that Disney had few parents in their animated feature films and short cartoons long before Western had a large staff working on comic book stories with different writers working on the same characters.
The animated features rarely have parents because being orphaned is a good drive for initial drama (the happy ending wouldn't be as fulfilling if the character had started out with a happy family, except if it was an unkind family and Disney was unwilling to delve into that kind of darkness). The cartoons didn't have the taboo against parents (see Goofy/George Geef as a father, Daisy's parents in Donald's Diary), and their rarity, methinks, is only a side-effect of the general lack of relatives in animation. Only Gus and HDL were featured in the cartoons in the way of Duck relatives (not a single uncle or aunt, even though the comics would later have 'uncle' be the go-to relationship to introduce a new relative), and aside from a brief mention of his mother, not a single relative of Mickey ever appeared.
The animated features rarely have parents because being orphaned is a good drive for initial drama (the happy ending wouldn't be as fulfilling if the character had started out with a happy family, except if it was an unkind family and Disney was unwilling to delve into that kind of darkness). The cartoons didn't have the taboo against parents (see Goofy/George Geef as a father, Daisy's parents in Donald's Diary), and their rarity, methinks, is only a side-effect of the general lack of relatives in animation. Only Gus and HDL were featured in the cartoons in the way of Duck relatives (not a single uncle or aunt, even though the comics would later have 'uncle' be the go-to relationship to introduce a new relative), and aside from a brief mention of his mother, not a single relative of Mickey ever appeared.
So, then, what was the OTHER of the two reasons?
Simple puritanist reluctance to show married characters in comics, with living breathing evidence that they have "done the thing". It's stupid but it is what it is. (See the Which characters ARE married? thread.)
Simple puritanist reluctance to show married characters in comics, with living breathing evidence that they have "done the thing". It's stupid but it is what it is. (See the Which characters ARE married? thread.)
That's what I had assumed, which is why I referred to the animated films as an example of that. Perhaps that was NOT the reason for the absence of parents in SOME of the animated features and shorts. But, I'd bet it was in the OTHER animated features and shorts that had children with no parents.
Simple puritanist reluctance to show married characters in comics, with living breathing evidence that they have "done the thing". It's stupid but it is what it is. (See the Which characters ARE married? thread.)
That's what I had assumed, which is why I referred to the animated films as an example of that. Perhaps that was NOT the reason for the absence of parents in SOME of the animated features and shorts. But, I'd bet it was in the OTHER animated features and shorts that had children with no parents.
Do you have any examples of Disney animated features with parent-less kids (where that wasn't lifted right off the original fairy tale or book, of course, so Cinderella and Snow White and The Sword in the Stone are out)?
I haven't seen stories with this aunt, but I feel I am going to dislike her for making Clarabelle yet another example of a character being needlessly shown to have been raised by someone else instead of their parents.
That'd be Nerissa Cow, from a series starting with "Clarabella e l'eccentrica Zia Nena". The series is based on the Auntie Mame novels and as far as I can tell not directly compatible with "regular" fiction involving Clarabelle. It also offers a minimal take on Clarabelle's father, Camillo, who is nothing like Beeble, except for that they both appear to be politicians(?). Beeble's easily the superior character. Though mind one of the Dutch comics featuring Maw Cow implies her husband's been dead for a while.
I see that it's a series made of three episodes, all of them from 2014. Also, Paperpedia says that Camillo is Clarabelle's uncle, not father.
I don't know... I do remember seeing lines like "he's just a goof" in the Super Goof series, but it seemed to me that the term was used like it would be used in real life, i.e. to indicate "he's just an ordinary fool". The term pippide (whose first use was probably in this 2006 series) seems to carry the implication of characters being somehow a "copy" of Goofy, or the implication of Goofy playing different characters. That's why pippide is a term found in reviews of Goofy classic shorts. A similar but fan-made term is pietride ("peteid" ), used to refer to the various incarnation/clones of Pete, mainly found in animation but also, more rarely, in comics.
I guess that's one of the two reasons for which there aren't too many mothers and fathers in Dissney comics: with so many writers/artists working independently from each other, the risk of characters getting multiple mothers/multiple fathers is high.
The other reason being more important, owing to the fact that Disney had few parents in their animated feature films and short cartoons long before Western had a large staff working on comic book stories with different writers working on the same characters.
That's also what Wikipedia claims, as it has an article titled Roles of mothers in Disney media, which has the following incipit:
The heroes and heroines of most Disney movies come from unstable family backgrounds;[1] most are either orphaned or have no mothers.[2] Few, if any, have only single-parent mothers. In other instances, mothers are presented as "bad surrogates" eventually "punished for their misdeeds."[3] There is much debate about the reasoning behind this phenomenon.[4] Some feminists (such as Amy Richards) believe it is to create dramatic interest in the main characters; if mothers were present to guide them, they argue, there would not be much of a plot.[5] Some entertainment journalists (such as G. Shearer) believe that it is to show that a happy family does not have to consist of a mother, father and a child and that a family can be one parent and one child, or one parent and many siblings.[6] Below is a list of some notable examples of this aspect of Disney movies and television series.[7]
To me, the whole "debate about the reasoning behind this phenomenon" seems nonsense: most of Disney animated films are not original stories but rather remakes of novels, fairy tales, and other pre-existing works. If a character in a Disney movie has no parents, that's because the same thing is true in the original source.
When I mentioned two reasons, the second one was had nothing to do with Disney movies.
That's what I had assumed, which is why I referred to the animated films as an example of that. Perhaps that was NOT the reason for the absence of parents in SOME of the animated features and shorts. But, I'd bet it was in the OTHER animated features and shorts that had children with no parents.
Do you have any examples of Disney animated features with parent-less kids (where that wasn't lifted right off the original fairy tale or book, of course, so Cinderella and Snow White and The Sword in the Stone are out)?
Probably not feature films. Perhaps I should have mentioned only animated shorts.
Simple puritanist reluctance to show married characters in comics, with living breathing evidence that they have "done the thing". It's stupid but it is what it is. (See the Which characters ARE married? thread.)
That's what many people say, but I don't think it's true. I mean, even the most idiotic censor would not think of preventing parents-children relationship from being shown just because it implies the parents had sex. That would be really over the top insane.
No, for me the reason why main characters have nephews/nieces instead of sons/daughters is that this way the continuity is preserved. I mean, after you have 100 stories in which character X is shown not to have any children, you can't just have a ten years old child appearing out of nowhere in the 101st story as if he had always been there: it would be like insulting the intelligence of the reader/viewer, so it almost never happens (this is one of the reason why I strongly dislike the concept of Goofy having a son named Max, concept that luckily seems to have vanished from the most recent animated products). That's why, if you plan to make a main character which had been established as childless interact with a child, the simplest, quicker, most obvious and most logical way of doing it is by introducing a nephew or niece.
Because of the above, there is an urban legend* that said nephews/nieces are all orphans who live with their aunt or uncle, but when you look at it more carefully, you see that HDL living with Donald is basically the only situation in which this happens, while the other cases are different (for example, April, May and June don't live with Aunt Daisy, they live with their parents and only occasionally visit her aunt, etc.).
As for why many of the adult main characters have no parents, the reason is simply that... they are not needed. I mean, since adults are not expected to live with their parents, then said parents should not appear unless they are needed for the story. Did Gottfredson need Minnie's parents in the third Mickey strip? He did, so he invented them. Did animatorsneed Daisy's parents' in "Donald's Diary"? They did, so they invented them. So there was no rule that prevented parents. As to why Mickey and Donald were not also shown with their parents back then, the answer is simply that, unlike Minnie and Daisy, they were never in a story that required parents forthem: if there was such story, I am pretty sure parents for them would have been created.
The only difficulty is that the longer a character remains without parents, the higher is the chance that creators would refrain from inventing them to avoid contradictions. I mean, Scrooge has two parents (Fergus and Downy), created by Don Rosa, but before that he already had two different parents invented by DuckTales, and even before that he had two different parents invented by Guido Martina. Same for Donald: he has two parents (Quackmore and Hortense), basically created by Don Rosa based on some names appearing in a Barks sketch for a family tree, but before that there was already a story featuring a different set of Donald's parents. I can undertand why some creators would avoid creating parents for the main characters to avoid contradictions: a characters can have any number of uncles and aunts, but should not have multiple fathers or multiple mothers. A similar problem is when multiple creators, working independently from each other, create flashbacks featuring the decesead spouse of a character who is a vidower in present-time (like Grandma Duck): the multiple versions of the spouse will end up having different names and different designs.
*If some recent stories seem to indicate this is a fact and not an urban legend, I argue that this is because urban legends are sometimes similar to self-fullfilling prophecies. If a person convinced that there's a rule preventing parents from being shown becomes an author, he/she will follow that rule even though the rule doesn't really exists. And if they becomes editors in addition of, or instead of, becoming authors, they will make that non-existant rule into an actual rule. It seems this is already happening, with Donald Mickey, Minnie, Goofy, Clarabelle etc. being shown as being raised by people other than their parents, which feels completely gratuitous and which I don't like.
Maybe we should have a separate thread for this discussion?
That'd be Nerissa Cow, from a series starting with "Clarabella e l'eccentrica Zia Nena". The series is based on the Auntie Mame novels and as far as I can tell not directly compatible with "regular" fiction involving Clarabelle. It also offers a minimal take on Clarabelle's father, Camillo, who is nothing like Beeble, except for that they both appear to be politicians(?). Beeble's easily the superior character. Though mind one of the Dutch comics featuring Maw Cow implies her husband's been dead for a while.
I see that it's a series made of three episodes, all of them from 2014. Also, Paperpedia says that Camillo is Clarabelle's uncle, not father.
Nothing but respect for that wiki (and wikis in general), but I've found that, as far as I am able to verify, I cannot trust it too much when it comes to exact family relations (quite a few unsourced/un-argumented claims). Perhaps the Camillo spoken of is from another story, but if I read this (+ know what Auntie Mame is about), the conclusion is that Camillo is the name of Clarabelle's father in the Zia Nena stories. Or am I mistaken?
Ah, the orgin of Mouseton is pretty simple. All the Mouses get smart cose people experimented on them, they escaped, started stealing electricity and to question what is moral and... Oh, wait! It's that "Scret of NIMH" movie. Never mind...
Last Edit: Jul 29, 2017 19:34:07 GMT by Pan Maciej
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