You've all missed the point. I didn't make this thread to enlist how many uncles/aunts/other relatives Mickey and Goofy have. I expected you to get imaginative. Don't you have any ideas/opinions about the heroes' lives and experiences before their countless comic stories were told? Something like a mouse version of Rosa's ''Life and times of Scrooge McDuck''?
Post by Monkey_Feyerabend on Jul 29, 2017 22:18:53 GMT
Ahahah, I just re-read your opening post, you are right! This is very funny. You asked something and immediately starting from the second (maybe third) post we all changed the meaning of the topic. Sorry
(Nevertheless, my suggestion of collecting informations on the town appeared in real published stories could be of some use to the theme of the topic, i.e. invent historical stuff on the town.)
Post by Scrooge MacDuck on Jul 29, 2017 22:25:49 GMT
I see. The first idea I'd contribute is that Mouseton started out as a smaller town next to Duckburg, no greater or more advanced than Quacktown, and businessmen (including, I suppose, Lucius Lamb) who heard of Scrooge's sucecss and wanted a piece of the cake, so to sepak, without directly settling in the same town, decided to instead do business in Mouseton, leading to it growing and growing into the large megapolis we know today.
I see that it's a series made of three episodes, all of them from 2014. Also, Paperpedia says that Camillo is Clarabelle's uncle, not father.
Nothing but respect for that wiki (and wikis in general), but I've found that, as far as I am able to verify, I cannot trust it too much when it comes to exact family relations (quite a few unsourced/un-argumented claims). Perhaps the Camillo spoken of is from another story, but if I read this (+ know what Auntie Mame is about), the conclusion is that Camillo is the name of Clarabelle's father in the Zia Nena stories. Or am I mistaken?
Actually, the page you link has the following sentence:
Nena, zia di Clarabella e sorella di Camillo Cow, zio e legittimo tutore della suddetta nipote. Come nel romanzo di Dennis, anche in questo caso Clarabella viene affidata alla zia, ma non a causa della morte di Camillo, ma per via del fatto che quest'ultimo, sempre via per lavoro, non può occuparsi della bambina.
That translates into:
Nena, aunt of Clarabelle and sister of Camillo Cow, uncle and legal guardian of the aforementioned nephew. Like in Dennis' novel, Clarabella is sent to her aunt, not because of Camillo's death, but because of the fact that he, always away for work, can't take care of the child.
So, not only Clarabelle's legal guardian in the series is an uncle rather than her parents, but he is not even the one who raises her. Sigh.
You've all missed the point. I didn't make this thread to enlist how many uncles/aunts/other relatives Mickey and Goofy have. I expected you to get imaginative. Don't you have any ideas/opinions about the heroes' lives and experiences before their countless comic stories were told? Something like a mouse version of Rosa's ''Life and times of Scrooge McDuck''?
The problem is, there's not a mouse equivalent of ''The Life and Times of Scrooge McDuck'', for the simple reason that the Mouse Unvierse doesn't have a main character who is old and has a complex personality and adventurous past which makes him what he is today. If the Duck Universe didn't have a character like Scrooge, there could be no "Life and Times" either, since you can't do that with Donald (who is young and an everyman), even though we could still have origin stories like "W.H.A.D.A.L.O.T.T.A.J.A.R.J.O.N.", "The Sign of the Triple Distelfink", "Gyro's First Invention" etc.
There's also the fact that Duckburg is a well-developed city which has a complex history (his founder, Cornelius Coot, has even been a recurring character since 1952), while Mouseton is much less developed, to the point that some countries even assume that Mouseton doesn't exist (in-universe, I mean) and that the Mouse characters live in Duckburg! (I plan to open a thread on that). Given how much more developed the Duck universe is, it's no wonder most readers prefer it.
Anyway, I recall two Italian stories with the statue of the founder of Mouseton, and in both cases it's a different character. In Topolino e la scia delle torpedini (1987), he's called Harvey Exploribus (I can't upload images in this period). In Topolino e l'effetto trasmutatore (1995), he's called Geremia Ratt, and luckily there's already an image of him online:
Paperpedia claims that the surname of Mickey's aunt Topolinda (Melinda in the English version) is Ratt and that Geremia is an ancestor of her. However, the 1995 story doesn't say that, and since I don't think he was mentioned in more than one story this may be one of the cases in which Wikis can't be trusted for family relations.
Also, in Scarpa's Topolino imperatore della Calidornia (1961), it is said that in the 19th century the city was known as Spavent City. Plus, some years ago there was a sticker or something that gave Mouseton's foundation year as 1695, but I don't know if they took that from a story or just made it up.
Nothing but respect for that wiki (and wikis in general), but I've found that, as far as I am able to verify, I cannot trust it too much when it comes to exact family relations (quite a few unsourced/un-argumented claims). Perhaps the Camillo spoken of is from another story, but if I read this (+ know what Auntie Mame is about), the conclusion is that Camillo is the name of Clarabelle's father in the Zia Nena stories. Or am I mistaken?
Actually, the page you link has the following sentence:
Nena, zia di Clarabella e sorella di Camillo Cow, zio e legittimo tutore della suddetta nipote. Come nel romanzo di Dennis, anche in questo caso Clarabella viene affidata alla zia, ma non a causa della morte di Camillo, ma per via del fatto che quest'ultimo, sempre via per lavoro, non può occuparsi della bambina.
That translates into:
Nena, aunt of Clarabelle and sister of Camillo Cow, uncle and legal guardian of the aforementioned nephew. Like in Dennis' novel, Clarabella is sent to her aunt, not because of Camillo's death, but because of the fact that he, always away for work, can't take care of the child.
So, not only Clarabelle's legal guardian in the series is an uncle rather than her parents, but he is not even the one who raises her. Sigh.
You've all missed the point. I didn't make this thread to enlist how many uncles/aunts/other relatives Mickey and Goofy have. I expected you to get imaginative. Don't you have any ideas/opinions about the heroes' lives and experiences before their countless comic stories were told? Something like a mouse version of Rosa's ''Life and times of Scrooge McDuck''?
The problem is, there's not a mouse equivalent of ''The Life and Times of Scrooge McDuck'', for the simple reason that the Mouse Unvierse doesn't have a main character who is old and has a complex personality and adventurous past which makes him what he is today. If the Duck Universe didn't have a character like Scrooge, there could be no "Life and Times" either, since you can't do that with Donald (who is young and an everyman), even though we could still have origin stories like "W.H.A.D.A.L.O.T.T.A.J.A.R.J.O.N.", "The Sign of the Triple Distelfink", "Gyro's First Invention" etc.
There's also the fact that Duckburg is a well-developed city which has a complex history (his founder, Cornelius Coot, has even been a recurring character since 1952), while Mouseton is much less developed, to the point that some countries even assume that Mouseton doesn't exist (in-universe, I mean) and that the Mouse characters live in Duckburg! (I plan to open a thread on that). Given how much more developed the Duck universe is, it's no wonder most readers prefer it.
Anyway, I recall two Italian stories with the statue of the founder of Mouseton, and in both cases it's a different character. In Topolino e la scia delle torpedini (1987), he's called Harvey Exploribus (I can't upload images in this period). In Topolino e l'effetto trasmutatore (1995), he's called Geremia Ratt, and luckily there's already an image of him online:
Paperpedia claims that the surname of Mickey's aunt Topolinda (Melinda in the English version) is Ratt and that Geremia is an ancestor of her. However, the 1995 story doesn't say that, and since I don't think he was mentioned in more than one story this may be one of the cases in which Wikis can't be trusted for family relations.
Also, in Scarpa's Topolino imperatore della Calidornia (1961), it is said that in the 19th century the city was known as Spavent City. Plus, some years ago there was a sticker or something that gave Mouseton's foundation year as 1695, but I don't know if they took that from a story or just made it up.
Wow! A Mouse version of Cornelius Coot! Couldn't the ItalianMouse artists and writers have had a bit of originality, and not made this city founder almost an exact carbon copy of Duckburg's founder?
Whatevs*, you have done a very beautiful job with that page! I cannot believe there are so many Goofy and Clarabelle coming from the 40's and 50's!
Two important missing in your list: Mickey's crazy uncle Gudger, relevant as coming from Walsh& Gott, and Goofy's brother Pappo (Gaffy?) invented by Scarpa.
(*By the way, only now I realize that you are not the user named Whatever who has slightly changed his nick... )
Double thank you! Gudger I was aware of to be missing, but Gaffy is a new find to me.
You're welcome. Gaffy is no official name of course, I made it up for the post above. His name is Pappo, a variation on the Italian Goofy's name, which is Pippo, as you may know. He appeared only in a famous story by Scarpa from 1957, named Topolino e il Pippotarzan (Mickey Mouse and Tarzan-Goofy). In this story Goofy also mentions to have a cousin Peppo and an uncle Puppo. Pappo is a sibling of Goofy who lives in Africa. The story has an impressive sequence of gags, and has the same (pretty high) quality of all Mickey's adventures by Scarpa from the 50's. In Italy it is a cult story even because it inspired a famous movie by master comedy filmmaker Ettore Scola, with the equally legendary title "Will Our Heroes Be Able to Find Their Friend Who Has Mysteriously Desappeared in Africa?". But I think you will never see this story published in the US, because of the stereotyped and not very politically correct depiction of African savages.
There is a similar story by Fallberg and Murry, called The Lens Hunter. Even in this case Mickey and Goofy are in wild Africa, and even in this case there is a relative of Goofy emigrated to Africa (and a bad guy looking for him), that is one uncle Grubley, who maybe you can add to your list, Whatevs. Notice that Fallberg-Murry's story is from 1953, and was published in Italy in 1954. So Scarpa read it, that's almost for sure. Now, maybe we cannot speak of plagiarism, because the stories develop kinda differently (and Scarpa's one is a masterpiece compared to the American one, honestly). But nevertheless I think that Scarpa was inspired by Murry's story. The basic structure of the plot is too similar.
So the sequence of plot stealing** is: Carl Fallberg ---> Romano Scarpa ---> Ettore Scola!!! (But of course, I guess that every time this Scarpa's story is reprinted in Italy and introduced by a little essay by Beccattini or Boschi, only the passage Scarpa ---> Scola is told, to prove how a genius Scarpa was...the suspect precedent by Fallberg is never mentioned...)
[**"plot stealing" is a joke, I repeat: there is no real serious plagiarism involved here...]
Sorry again to whatever for the nth OT, but these pieces of information here were quite important
Did you guys also think about Goofy's son Max? He appeared in many french comics in the 90's. Goofy's wife is not there, supposedly deceased. She appeared in early Gotfredson strips though.
Did you guys also think about Goofy's son Max? He appeared in many french comics in the 90's. Goofy's wife is not there, supposedly deceased. She appeared in early Gotfredson strips though.
We discussed Max (who actually comes from the TV show Goof Troop, or La Bande à Dingo in French — are you French, to know him primarily through French comics?) in another thread. Glory-Bee in the strips was only a girlfriend and not a wife according to the strips, and it's only a fan theory that she might be Max's mother — I personally find it unlikely, as Goofy's son had already been introduced when the comic strips showed Goofy "meeting" Glory-Bee.
There's also the fact that Duckburg is a well-developed city which has a complex history (his founder, Cornelius Coot, has even been a recurring character since 1952), while Mouseton is much less developed, to the point that some countries even assume that Mouseton doesn't exist (in-universe, I mean) and that the Mouse characters live in Duckburg! (I plan to open a thread on that). Given how much more developed the Duck universe is, it's no wonder most readers prefer it.
Anyway, I recall two Italian stories with the statue of the founder of Mouseton, and in both cases it's a different character. In Topolino e la scia delle torpedini (1987), he's called Harvey Exploribus (I can't upload images in this period). In Topolino e l'effetto trasmutatore (1995), he's called Geremia Ratt, and luckily there's already an image of him online:
Paperpedia claims that the surname of Mickey's aunt Topolinda (Melinda in the English version) is Ratt and that Geremia is an ancestor of her. However, the 1995 story doesn't say that, and since I don't think he was mentioned in more than one story this may be one of the cases in which Wikis can't be trusted for family relations.
Also, in Scarpa's Topolino imperatore della Calidornia (1961), it is said that in the 19th century the city was known as Spavent City. Plus, some years ago there was a sticker or something that gave Mouseton's foundation year as 1695, but I don't know if they took that from a story or just made it up.
Cornelius rip-off, much, that Jeremiah Ratt character? Look at this design and giant statue. Bah. That is cheap. Also, out of sheer curiosity, what is this pixie-winged dog (!?!?! This really isn't something I thought I'd ever have cause to type!) floating by in the background?
It has a statue to the honor of the benefactor of the town, Fortunio Bancarotta, as we see inthe Delta Dimension. How was the guy translated in English? His name is literally "Lucky Bankruptcy" - an ironic name for a millionaire! As you may remember, the statue was destroyed in one of the most memorable gag in Scarpa's early work. But I like to think that it was rebuilt. It is a pity that none re-showed it, as far as I know.
Fortunio Bancarotta is called "senator Slushfund" in David Gerstein's localization in Gemstone's Mickey Mouse Adventures #11 and "Fortunius Bankrupt" by the anonymous Comixology translator.
I'd love to see the statue rebuilt as well, it would be nice to have a recognizable reoccurring historical monument in Mouseton, much like Cornelius Coot's statue, but I don't think we need another pioneer founder like this Jeremiah Ratt. That's too much of a rip-off. Fortunio's statue would be perfect, but unfortunately it seems that the Mouseton folk didn't care enough for their city's benefactor to rebuilt it.
Someday, i'll post my version of the history of mouse universe. But i'll most likely do it in the adult section, so that i'll have more liberty to be creative.
It has a statue to the honor of the benefactor of the town, Fortunio Bancarotta, as we see inthe Delta Dimension. How was the guy translated in English? His name is literally "Lucky Bankruptcy" - an ironic name for a millionaire! As you may remember, the statue was destroyed in one of the most memorable gag in Scarpa's early work. But I like to think that it was rebuilt. It is a pity that none re-showed it, as far as I know.
Fortunio Bancarotta is called "senator Slushfund" in David Gerstein's localization in Gemstone's Mickey Mouse Adventures #11 and "Fortunius Bankrupt" by the anonymous Comixology translator.
Hm. "Senator Slushfound" is amusing but I rather prefer Fortunius Bankrupt, as it better conveys the kind of character the original author had in mind — nothing about Bancarotta suggested a politician.
Did you guys also think about Goofy's son Max? He appeared in many french comics in the 90's.
What do I think of Max? I think that he's not canon. I mean, Goofy has been portrayed as a childless bachelor for decades in comics, and also in animation*, and then a son of him comes out of nowhere in that mediocre Goof Troop series, part of Disney Afternoon who took so many liberties with the original material in its shows? No thanks. It would have been sort of aceptable if they showed the Goofy from Goof Troop as a separate character from the real Goofy, but no, they treated him as the real Goofy, and even tried to incorporate Max into some later animated products. Luckily, Max seems to have been forgotten in more recent animated products, while he was almost never in the comics (classic comics, I mean: most of the comics with Max are Goof Troop stories).
*There was a Goofy-like character named George Geef in the 1950's/1960's short who had a son named George Junior. However, that was basically a separate character from Goofy or, if you prefer, it was Goofy playing a role.
Goofy's wife is not there, supposedly deceased. She appeared in early Gotfredson strips though.
That female character is Glory-Bee, who was a love interest for Goofy for some time, though I wouldn't call that those strips "early Gottfredson strips", since she made her debut in 1969 (Gottrfedson mainly drew serials from 1930 to 1955, and then drew daily strips from 1955 to 1975). The credit for the character goes to writer Del Connell.
Cornelius rip-off, much, that Jeremiah Ratt character? Look at this design and giant statue. Bah. That is cheap.
Response to him seems to be negative, judging from this thread. I wonder if Harvey Exploribus, who had a different design, will get a more positive fan response, though it will be a moot point until I can upload a picture of him.
Also, out of sheer curiosity, what is this pixie-winged dog (!?!?! This really isn't something I thought I'd ever have cause to type!) floating by in the background?
That pixie-winged dog is Pluto who had been accidentally fused with another animal (a dragonfly, if I remember correctly) after both of them passed through an Eega Beeva device designed to quickly move things up/down the stairs.
Yes, I used to watch Goof Troop and Quack Pack, then found out about the comics with Max. Do you mean Goofy's son appeared before Glory-Bee?
Scrooge MacDuck holds to the idea that the George Geef character from the 1950's/1960's shorts is actually the "real" Goofy, and that his son George Junior is actually Max.
Wow! A Mouse version of Cornelius Coot! Couldn't the ItalianMouse artists and writers have had a bit of originality, and not made this city founder almost an exact carbon copy of Duckburg's founder?
Wait, wait. To be fair, that is one single panel from one single and probably completely unknown story - as thousands of those produced weekly by Topolino one the last seven or eight decades - by one single artist and one single writer. Nothing that has gone beyond that story. The only accountable people for this (cheap, I agree) choice are Panaro and that unknown guy who was drawing this (and maybe the editor).
A problem that I see in many posts by the user Drakeborough - do not get offended, take it as a suggestion! - is that he often posts references to obscure unsuccessful Italian (but also foreign) stories, in the same way as he does for more relevant and influential ones, or even milestones. He should realize that not everyone in this forum has his panoramic view on the Disney worldwide production, hence not everyone here is necessarily able to measure and contextualize the reference.