Well, this thread is about fave stories. Don't blame me for being older than you and having different tastes. Maybe Gatto is "average" and De Vita senior surely is an acquired taste. But in contrast to Casty, who may be more easy on younger readers' eyes, they at least had a style all of their own. That's something I appreciate.
My single favourite Disney comic produced in Italy is easily The Money Ocean by Marco Rota. It's a masterpiece!
To which the American colors did no justice, by the way. I mean, the color artists themselves were competent… but I think this is one case where no matter how much more sense it makes, the American tradition of making the coins a very pale silvery grey really doesn't look as good as the Italian gold. Look at these horribly pale colors. In my opinion, nearly all of the dreamlike wonder of the original is gone:
the translation has completely BUTCHERED the meaning of the first panel! In the original: Scrooge: In fact, they are nothing other than bank notes! Donald: Hope they don't take the way of the ventilators! Scrooge: Shut up, Murderer!
the translation has completely BUTCHERED the meaning of the first panel! In the original: Scrooge: In fact, they are nothing other than bank notes! Donald: Hope they don't take the way of the ventilators! Scrooge: Shut up, Murderer!
That's sadly par for the course with the American localizations. In this case, I agree with you that it was especially tasteless, inasmuch as they took a more "poetic" story and shoved admittedly funny, but out-of-place jokes in it.
Or maybe—as with references to suicide and the electric chair—the translation team (which, in 1992, didn't involve me) simply knew domestic Disney didn't want the casual reference to murder? It seems self-evident to me.
The Italian team revises some stories too; maybe more than you're aware?
I'm not trying to start a flame war here—I'd just appreciate it if you'd reconsider the constant implication that the American editions are the only ones "localized" rather than translated precisely.
Or maybe—as with references to suicide and the electric chair—the translation team (which, in 1992, didn't involve me) simply knew domestic Disney didn't want the casual reference to murder? It seems self-evident to me.
"Murder"… huh. I never looked at it this way, but you have to admit it would have been easy to just cut the "murderer" insult and keep the "hope the notes don't fly into the ventilators" idea intact, rather than replace it with a pun.
I'm sorry if we sound annoying. At any rate, let me clarify that I (while I was unaware of Italians altering their own stories to this extent — interesting stuff!) do not profess that American translators are the only ones to do this kind of thing. In fact, when I used to be more prominent in the French Disney fandom than the English-speaking one, I would rant just the same on our translators when they got dialogues "wrong".
In this particular case, however, I think it's something that happens more with American translations than others, which goes beyond the "faithful translations or not?" debate. The localization often add jokes. Lots of jokes. Pounds of jokes. And excellent jokes, usually! Whether or not one agrees to their translation-induced existence, they fit right in Scarpa stories and the like. On the other hand… sometimes, they still inject them into stories of a more "dramatic", less playful nature, and to an extent this feels like a betrayal to me. It's a matter of personal feelings, but I think in at least a few cases like The Money Ocean, something is lost and little is gained when strings of puns are added — weakening the atmosphere of wonder brought about by the art. Something similar happens in another Rota story, namely Night of the Saracen, when Don-al-Din utters the bantery, anachronistic line "Brother! That's action!" right in the middle of what GeoX justly describes as one of the most well-drawn, visually impressive sequences in Disney comicdom, whereas he had suitably dramatic dialogue in the original.
Something similar happens in another Rota story, namely Night of the Saracen, when Don-al-Din utters the bantery, anachronistic line "Brother! That's action!" right in the middle of what GeoX justly describes as one of the most well-drawn, visually impressive sequences in Disney comicdom, whereas he had suitably dramatic dialogue in the original.
In American Duck tradition, "Brother, that's action"—first used by Carl Barks—is a recurring, beloved expression always deployed during big, awe-inspiring, impressive moments of impact or excitement.
So when Don Markstein used it, it wasn't casual banter: it was a direct callback to similar such epic scenes in other stories, and the moment I saw it (as editor of the US edition), I recognized it and viscerally felt it was right. I can't think about the phrase now without remembering many of the most dramatic moments in Duckdom, whether they referenced it directly or not.
Of course, Don-al-Din, as an ancient Asian pirate, wouldn't have really been speaking in English to begin with, of course. But since we were already "translating" his words (both from Italian, and from al-Din's medieval tongue!), it didn't seem too anachronistic to me.
Something similar happens in another Rota story, namely Night of the Saracen, when Don-al-Din utters the bantery, anachronistic line "Brother! That's action!" right in the middle of what GeoX justly describes as one of the most well-drawn, visually impressive sequences in Disney comicdom, whereas he had suitably dramatic dialogue in the original.
In American Duck tradition, "Brother, that's action"—first used by Carl Barks—is a recurring, beloved expression always deployed during big, awe-inspiring, impressive moments of impact or excitement.
So when Don Markstein used it, it wasn't casual banter: it was a direct callback to similar such epic scenes in other stories, and the moment I saw it (as editor of the US edition), I recognized it and viscerally felt it was right. I can't think about the phrase now without remembering many of the most dramatic moments in Duckdom, whether they referenced it directly or not.
Of course, Don-al-Din, as an ancient Asian pirate, wouldn't have really been speaking in English to begin with, of course. But since we were already "translating" his words (both from Italian, and from al-Din's medieval tongue!), it didn't seem too anachronistic to me.
Hmmm. Interesting. I didn't recognize the quote from Rosa. Thanks! Still, I suppose it's a case of Very Much Varying Mileage, because while the phrase felt absolutely appropriate to comment on the far-fetched image of a barksdamn Aztec temple falling from a sky into a lake, not so much in front of a completely possible natural disaster. For me the clashing point was that as far as Don-al-Din knows as this point, he's going to die and those are his last words. We find out two pages later that he survived, of course, but especially on the first reading the tension was very real for me because since this is a Past-Donald, it is actually possible that he might die, unlike a situation involving the real Donald where you just know he's going to make it.
Or maybe—as with references to suicide and the electric chair—the translation team (which, in 1992, didn't involve me) simply knew domestic Disney didn't want the casual reference to murder? It seems self-evident to me.
It doesn't really seem that self-evident, frankly. Especially given the context which makes quite obvious it's an exaggeration by Scrooge part. I do quite agree with Scrooge MacDuck that if the problem was just the "murderer" then there were a number of ways to keep everything else and changing just that word.
The Italian team revises some stories too; maybe more than you're aware?
Yes, I'm aware stories get CENSORED(call it what it is) in Italy as well. It doesn't make it any better and I'm a vocal opposite if it. A nice thing about the latest "Paperinik" reprints monthly is that he had articles before the oldest stories detailing what was changed compared to the original and often images of the original panels with the original art\dialogues in the article while keeping the censored version in the story. It was better than nothing, though I'd much prefer the reverse...
I've also commented a few times in GeoX's blog how the French translations sometimes had a number of inconsistencies\errors\flat-out-censures compared to the Italian original, and IIRC at least a couple times (part of)his dislike for a story was due the altered meaning in the translation he was using.
Which brings back to an argument I used before, how many times stories should have Story By, Art By and Dialogues By, not Translated By. Writing dialogues for a story is a perfectly honest and valuable job, but it's NOT translation. Translation presumes that I'm reading the ORIGINAL story, just in my language(with the obvious differences due different languages), so i can judge the writing of the original author. If the dialogues aren't translated but changed but it's listed as a translation, I'm attributing faults and positives sides of the story and dialogues to the original author and not the dialogues writer.
If the Captain Retro(which will be forever used as the TIMELESS PERFECT EXAMPLE) had listed a DIALOGUE WRITER and not a TRANSLATOR, most wouldn't had a problem with it... and people wouldn't think it was the same story as the original.
If the Captain Retro(which will be forever used as the TIMELESS PERFECT EXAMPLE) had listed a DIALOGUE WRITER and not a TRANSLATOR, most wouldn't had a problem with it... and people wouldn't think it was the same story as the original.
IF it "had listed a DIALOGUE WRITER and not a TRANSLATOR, most wouldn't have had a problem with it..."
It DID list a dialogue writer. Joe, whose dialogue added the Captain Retro-Duck running gag, was—as you can see—credited only for dialogue, which was carefully listed as a separate credit from translation. Just as you wanted!
You've reached the point, sirtao, of blaming us for oversights we didn't actually make.
Folks, if you keep up this complaining about American localizations on threads of any topic at all, I personally am likely to stop commenting on this forum. For one thing, I'll be afraid to mention any story that has been re-dialogued for the USA, because it might trigger some complaints about the localization.
Look, you all have a right to state your views on this. But could you kindly start a new thread if you want to do that? And keep this thread, for instance, focused on people's naming of their favorite Italian stories? Or if you won't start a new thread ("How the Perfidious Americans Trashed the Money Ocean"), could you maybe adopt some icon or phrase (similar to a spoiler alert) that will announce that your post is taking up the localization issue...so that I could choose to avoid it and enjoy the rest of the thread? Maybe a little picture of a Thermian, as in, "I'm defending the historical documents of Duckburg." Gah.
Post by Scrooge MacDuck on Aug 23, 2017 9:06:10 GMT
So anyways–––
I think the Radice/Turconi Treasure Island and the Pippo Reporter series should well be on my list, as well as the Bottaro story From Zantaf with Lumps (for which, which will hopefully open and close the debate, I am very happy with the IDW translation).