This makes me curious about something: does anyone have a scan of the Gladstone's Mickey Mouse letter columns, mentioned by David Gerstein in a 1994 DCML message, in which someone first suggested the name Mouseton?
Okay, I skimmed through all the Gladstone I Mickey letter columns, and this was the only discussion of relevance I could find (from Mickey Mouse#235):
As you can see, it doesn't mention Mouseton, although it does suggest Mousachusetts for a state.
Maybe Ramapith can chime in if he remembers what letter column "Mouseton" was first suggested in? It would be nice to give the creator of that name due credit after all these years.
Post by drakeborough on Sept 17, 2019 16:32:58 GMT
Thanks for the image. Actually, I had already noticed that letter column a couple of days ago, and I remember thinking about posting it here myself, if only because of the irony of a reader making up the name Mousachussetts, which happens to be near identical to the name Mousechussetts used in an actual story and mentioned in the opening post of this thread. There is never time to do things...
I was puzzled by that "you asked where Mickey lives", since it doesn't seem to be supported by anything in the previous issues or even in WDC.
On the other hand, I found the letter column mentioned by yourself and by Ramapith in another thread three years ago, but never actually posted by anyone.
Here is Ramapith's message, which also quotes you:
I am aware of one use of "Mouseville" in Gottfredson's work ... the Phantom Blot continuity. Was it used at any other time? Also, which S-coded stories used that name (I'm always interested in Disney comic historical gems like that)?
I remember it appearing once or twice in 1950s strips. Unfortunately, I can't recall a specific one right at the moment. It is in lots of S-coded stories—like dozens. S 80006 is one example.
It always struck me as kind of strange how apart from two instances (Mouseville as above and Silo Center in an early story, neither of which were used again that I'm aware of)
Don't look now, but we used Silo Center as Oswald's hometown in the recent "Just Like Magic." I like to imagine it as another small town near Duckburg and Mouseton.
Is it true that Gladstone Series II studiously avoided using "Mouseton"? I read that, but can't recall offhand if they ever commented on it as an editorial policy. I seem to remember an editor saying in a post-Disney Comics, Inc., letter column somewhere that they would use either "Duckburg" or "Toontown" (not sure if that was Gladstone II or Gemstone)
Gladstone II tried to avoid mentioning Mickey's town, but used Duckburg in a pinch—I'm not sure why. (I could swear there might have been a singular use of Mouseton too, maybe in a story I worked on, but I can't find it now.)
Gemstone was initially encouraged by Disney to use Toontown (probably as a kind of Disneyland or Toontown Online tie-in; this was 2003), then approved to use Mouseton (in 2005), as Disney's publishing team continues to do today. The Toontown suggestion was referenced in a lettercol but never actually made it into a story. We were very happy to use Mouseton because it's a nice, comfy, unique-sounding name that fits naturally with the likes of Duckburg and St. Canard.
BTW, is Mouseton supposed to be a play on Houston or Boston?
Maybe both! I've heard people internally reference either one.
And here is the letter column, from Gemstone's Mickey Mouse #259 (cover date: December 2003):
So, a reader commented unfavorably on early Gemstone's use of Duckburg for Mickey's city, preferring that they stick to Mouseton instead. From what Ramapith wrote, I already expected that the answer would be something along the lines of Disney wanting to use Toon Town, but I didn't expect that the person who answered would also express personal disliking for Mouseton, which incidentally was also misspelled in the answer. There is also speculation about the name origin, regarding its similarity with Houston.
Anyway, Mouseton was used shortly after that, in the localization of the D-coded story "Riverside Rovers", in Mickey Mouse #261 (cover date: February 2004). I don't know if this the first use of the name in the Gemstone run or not, but at any rate the issue was actually released in January, and someone at the DCML made a positive comment for the return of the name Mouseton. Although the translator of that story was uncredited, Gary Leach wrote this on January 30, 2004:
Gemstone Name-of-City "rules" –
1) The Ducks live in Duckburg.
2) Mickey and his bunch live in a town that doesn't usually have a name to speak of. We feel - and Disney pretty much concurs, at least on this side of the Atlantic - that no one has come up with an entirely satisfactory name for Mickey's town to date. If one is required, however, we use Mouseton.
"Riverside Rovers" was one story where Mickey's town needed a name, so Mouseton got its day in the sun there. (I do most of the vetting on this sort of thing, so if you see Mouseton in a Gemstone comic, it's likely my doing.)
Still more of a mixed reaction of Mouseton from someone who was working with this comics at the time. At any rate, I guess that any perplexity about that name has since disappeared and that Mouseton was used constantly by Gemston, Boom! and now IDW.
Last Edit: Sept 19, 2019 19:01:12 GMT by drakeborough
I was puzzled by that "you asked where Mickey lives", since it doesn't seem to be supported by anything in the previous issues or even in WDC.
I wondered about that as well, but I finally found what was being referenced: a throwaway comment in Cross Talk (Gladstone's monthly editorial column) a few months earlier, where while promoting "Bobo the Elephant" that ran in Mickey Mouse #231, Geoffrey Blum stated that it was a comedy "set in Mickey's home town (by the way, has anybody figured out where Mickey's home town is? It certainly isn't Duckburg!)"
I'm beginning to think that the idea Bob Foster found "Mouseton" in a Gladstone I letter column is not correct ... even Ramapith was quoting what he had heard (from Foster himself), but either he or Foster may have been misremembering.
I was puzzled by that "you asked where Mickey lives", since it doesn't seem to be supported by anything in the previous issues or even in WDC.
I wondered about that as well, but I finally found what was being referenced: a throwaway comment in Cross Talk (Gladstone's monthly editorial column) a few months earlier, where while promoting "Bobo the Elephant" that ran in Mickey Mouse #231, Geoffrey Blum stated that it was a comedy "set in Mickey's home town (by the way, has anybody figured out where Mickey's home town is? It certainly isn't Duckburg!)"
Good job finding that! I'll post a scan of the relevant page of Cross Talk here for reference, in case anyone is interested: The image is taken from Mickey Mouse #231 (cover date: October 1987).
I'm beginning to think that the idea Bob Foster found "Mouseton" in a Gladstone I letter column is not correct ... even Ramapith was quoting what he had heard (from Foster himself), but either he or Foster may have been misremembering.
I was also thinking about this possibility, though I'd like to be proven wrong.
Last Edit: Sept 17, 2019 18:24:22 GMT by drakeborough
Post by Baar Baar Jinx on Sept 17, 2019 17:21:50 GMT
Honestly, I wouldn't have minded Mousechusetts as Mickey's state, if the name of his home town hadn't been Mouseton. But Mouseton, Mousechusetts is just a bit much. I did like the proposed name Squeekskill, though. (Are we sure Sam Whiteside, Jr, of Savannah, GA didn't get a job coming up with names for DuckTales '17?)
It's always seemed strange to me that some people connect "Mouseton" with "Houston." True, if you (mis)spell it as John Clark did there, it's *visually* similar. But in terms of pronunciation...the only people I've ever heard pronounce "Houston" to rhyme with "Mouseton" ("House-ton") are newscasters on BBC radio. Do any Americans pronounce it that way? I've always heard it as "Hue-ston".
Consider the name of a certain medical operation on a certain piece of male anatomy. It's really neither here nor there, but I can't hear that proposed Pennecticut name without thinking of it for some reason, and I think it makes it unlikely Disney would approve it.
I have to be honest, I'm still not quite sure what is being alluded to here. Is the reference to circumcision? Honestly, I would never have made that connection until you pointed it out, and it still seems like a huge leap to me; perhaps others can chime in as to whether they were struck by any unwholesome associations with the name. Maybe it's a regional/dialectic thing, or a slang I never heard of?
As for "Mousechussets", it's ... okay, I guess. I mean, it'd put Mouseton in the Northeast, which is where I think it belongs. But "Mouseton, Mousechussets" seems a little too cheesy to my ears; the good thing about Pennecticut is at least it mirrors the dual state portmanteau template established by Calisota. Actually, you could argue that Gottfredson established that template when he put Prickly Heat in Wyozona! When I read that name in one of Gemstone's take-along Mickey Mouse Adventures books, I thought it was made up for that story to mirror Calisota ... I was fascinated to later learn that Gofftredson came up with the tradition. I wonder if that's what inspired Barks to create Calisota?
BTW, are there any visual references to where Mickey's home state is located in Gottfredson's stories? Maps, extreme long shots, etc.?
Coming to "Calidornia" ... I've always been curious about Scarpa's use of this name. Where did he first use it, and did he use it more than once? Did he put Duckburg and Mouseton in the US or Italy? Why didn't he just go with California? And was he aware or not of Barks' name for the Ducks' home state, Calisota (which one came first)? Even if Calisota preceded Calidornia, I wouldn't blame Scarpa for being unaware of that name; Barks only used it once and then seemed to forget about it himself.
EDIT: Okay, according to this source, Calisota came first, Calidornia was only used once, and Scarpa put his Ducks and Mice in the USA.
About as cheesy as Indianapolis, Indiana, I suppose.
No matter what I say or do, know that Jesus loves you.
Coming to "Calidornia" ... I've always been curious about Scarpa's use of this name. Where did he first use it, and did he use it more than once? Did he put Duckburg and Mouseton in the US or Italy? Why didn't he just go with California? And was he aware or not of Barks' name for the Ducks' home state, Calisota (which one came first)? Even if Calisota preceded Calidornia, I wouldn't blame Scarpa for being unaware of that name; Barks only used it once and then seemed to forget about it himself.
EDIT: Okay, according to this source, Calisota came first, Calidornia was only used once, and Scarpa put his Ducks and Mice in the USA.
You have partially answered yourself already, but I will add that Scarpa's use of Calidornia was a one-time thing, and I seem to recall he used California in other stories instead. For example, the opening panel of this story mentions a fictional mission said to be in California, and if I remember correctly Duckburg was said to be just 50 miles to the north. The name California was also used in stories by other authors, for example I remember a few by Martina. There was also one early frame story that mentioned a fictional state that was not Calisota nor Calidornia, but I can't remember the name or the story.
I have found it: this is the frame story I had in mind. It was first published in 1964, written by Gian Giacomo Dalmasso and drawn by Giuseppe Perego. Here, the state Duckburg is in is called Paperonia. Coincidentally, the same name was reused in the translation of Rosa's "His Majesty, McDuck" as the equivalent of McDuckland. It was reused again in this Italian story from 2010, which is very similar to Rosa's, and once again here Paperonia is not the state Duckburg is in but the state Scrooge creates around his Money Bin.
Honestly, I wouldn't have minded Mousechusetts as Mickey's state, if the name of his home town hadn't been Mouseton. But Mouseton, Mousechusetts is just a bit much. I did like the proposed name Squeekskill, though. (Are we sure Sam Whiteside, Jr, of Savannah, GA didn't get a job coming up with names for DuckTales '17?)
To ME, Mickey and Goofy, Like I do, split time between USA and The Netherlands during each year . When they are in USA they live in Gottfredson's Mouseville, and when in The Netherlands, they live in Duckstad. They each have homes in both places. It doesn't matter to me that Disney is not allowed to use the term, "Mouseville", Mickey lives there, anyway.
Honestly, I wouldn't have minded Mousechusetts as Mickey's state, if the name of his home town hadn't been Mouseton. But Mouseton, Mousechusetts is just a bit much. I did like the proposed name Squeekskill, though. (Are we sure Sam Whiteside, Jr, of Savannah, GA didn't get a job coming up with names for DuckTales '17?)
To ME, Mickey and Goofy, Like I do, split time between USA and The Netherlands during each year . When they are in USA they live in Gottfredson's Mouseville, and when in The Netherlands, they live in Duckstad. They each have homes in both places. It doesn't matter to me that Disney is not allowed to use the term, "Mouseville", Mickey lives there, anyway.
Mouseville was used for a long time, but when Disney tried to make its comics universe popular again in the US in the late 80s and early 90s, there was another toon show from a different studio, which also featured an anthropomorphic mouse who lived in a city called Mouseville. Since that show was very popular back then and used the name Mouseville much more often than Disney comics, the writers changed the name to "Mouseton" instead, to prevent confusion.
I don't like the idea that the Ducks and Mice live in the same city. I used to endore it, because as a German reader, I was accustomed to that, but really I prefer the idea of two seperate cities like in the American and Italian localizations.
To me, the Disney comicbook universe is a parallel world, both cities are located in a country called the USA, with Duckburg at the West Coast in Calisota, and Mouseton at the East Coast in Mousechusetts or Pennecticut.
Mouseville was used for a long time, but when Disney tried to make its comics universe popular again in the US in the late 80s and early 90s, there was another toon show from a different studio, which also featured an anthropomorphic mouse who lived in a city called Mouseville. Since that show was very popular back then and used the name Mouseville much more often than Disney comics, the writers changed the name to "Mouseton" instead, to prevent confusion.
I don't like the idea that the Ducks and Mice live in the same city. I used to endore it, because as a German reader, I was accustomed to that, but really I prefer the idea of two seperate cities like in the American and Italian localizations.
To me, the Disney comicbook universe is a parallel world, both cities are located in a country called the USA, with Duckburg at the West Coast in Calisota, and Mouseton at the East Coast in Mousechusetts or Pennecticut.
The toon from another studio was "Mighty Mouse", and I don't think it was ever all that popular ... Disney was probably just proceeding with an abundance of caution (in any case, did Gottfredson's use of "Mouseville" pre-date the Mighty Mouse use? If so, Disney might have won any legal battle that ensued and, in fact, could have theoretically counter-sued Terrytoons for their appropriation of the name. For that matter, I always felt Mighty Mouse looked a little too much like Mickey to be a coincidence ... wonder why Disney didn't sue over *that*?)
But I agree with you that Mouseton and Duckburg aren't in the same state, or even the same universe (like Rosa, I'm an extreme splitter on the lumper-splitter scale), and there is a lot of evidence from Gottfredson's work that Mickey lives on the East Coast, so for me, Mouseton is in Pennecticut, somewhere near where Salem is in our real-world Massachusetts, maybe? I prefer Pennecticut to Mousechusetts because (a) it echoes Calisota and (b) as I said, Mouseton, Mousechusetts is pushing it. I'm okay with Mouseton over Mouseville because it evokes Boston, which is close to where I imagine Mouseton to be. I guess, pending further evidence coming to light, we are crediting Bob Foster with coming up with the name (it's interesting because he worked on the Duck books, not Mickey Mouse Adventures, where the name debuted).
Mouseville was used for a long time, but when Disney tried to make its comics universe popular again in the US in the late 80s and early 90s, there was another toon show from a different studio, which also featured an anthropomorphic mouse who lived in a city called Mouseville. Since that show was very popular back then and used the name Mouseville much more often than Disney comics, the writers changed the name to "Mouseton" instead, to prevent confusion.
I don't like the idea that the Ducks and Mice live in the same city. I used to endore it, because as a German reader, I was accustomed to that, but really I prefer the idea of two seperate cities like in the American and Italian localizations.
To me, the Disney comicbook universe is a parallel world, both cities are located in a country called the USA, with Duckburg at the West Coast in Calisota, and Mouseton at the East Coast in Mousechusetts or Pennecticut.
The toon from another studio was "Mighty Mouse", and I don't think it was ever all that popular ... Disney was probably just proceeding with an abundance of caution (in any case, did Gottfredson's use of "Mouseville" pre-date the Mighty Mouse use? If so, Disney might have won any legal battle that ensued and, in fact, could have theoretically counter-sued Terrytoons for their appropriation of the name. For that matter, I always felt Mighty Mouse looked a little too much like Mickey to be a coincidence ... wonder why Disney didn't sue over *that*?)
But I agree with you that Mouseton and Duckburg aren't in the same state, or even the same universe (like Rosa, I'm an extreme splitter on the lumper-splitter scale), and there is a lot of evidence from Gottfredson's work that Mickey lives on the East Coast, so for me, Mouseton is in Pennecticut, somewhere near where Salem is in our real-world Massachusetts, maybe? I prefer Pennecticut to Mousechusetts because (a) it echoes Calisota and (b) as I said, Mouseton, Mousechusetts is pushing it. I'm okay with Mouseton over Mouseville because it evokes Boston, which is close to where I imagine Mouseton to be. I guess, pending further evidence coming to light, we are crediting Bob Foster with coming up with the name (it's interesting because he worked on the Duck books, not Mickey Mouse Adventures, where the name debuted).
Mighty Mouse was extremely popular in USA and Canada in the 1940s and 1950s. He wasn't as popular as Mickey Mouse. But, the difference was that from the start of Mighty Mouse in 1942, it was established that he was the protector of Mouseville. This was told in EVERY Mighty Mouse animated cartoon, AND in every Mighty Mouse comic book. Floyd Gottfredson's single mention of Mickey Mouse living in Mouseville in one, single newspaper strip panel in 1939, and one reprinted comic book panel in 1942, didn't establish that as a trademark-type "fact" related to Mickey Mouse. Disney wouldn't have won a lawsuit court proceeding to try to keep Terrytoons from using that Mighty Mouse "fact", even as far back as 1942.
I don't care about Mighty Mouse, and I DO like Mickey Mouse enough to have an opinion about which town he lived. And I don't care what corporate decisions Disney had to make during years after the end of their comic books being printed with the Dell Comics imprint. So, I'll continue to stick with Mouseville as the town where Mickey Mouse dwells. Had my Goofy one-page gag been printed, or my Goofy/Gilbert story been submitted to Gutenberghus or Oberon, and bought by them, I might understand if I had referred to Mouseville in one of my stories, and it were changed to "Mouseton". But, I would still have Mouseville as their city/town, in my "headcanon".
The toon from another studio was "Mighty Mouse", and I don't think it was ever all that popular ... Disney was probably just proceeding with an abundance of caution (in any case, did Gottfredson's use of "Mouseville" pre-date the Mighty Mouse use? If so, Disney might have won any legal battle that ensued and, in fact, could have theoretically counter-sued Terrytoons for their appropriation of the name. For that matter, I always felt Mighty Mouse looked a little too much like Mickey to be a coincidence ... wonder why Disney didn't sue over *that*?)
I confirm that Gottfredson's first use of Mouseville, which was in the 1939 Phantom Blot continuity, predates the creation of that Mighty Mouse guy, which I haven't even heard of except for discussions relating to Mousevilee vs Mouseton, but which I can say, with a quick Google search, it was created in 1942.
Disney lawyers probably didn't sue Terrytoons because they didn't even know about the relatively obscure use of Mouseville in Mickey's strip, and of course they couldn't sue them decades later, after Terrytoons had already used the name countless times without being sued.
On the other hand, Terrytoons would have probably lost a lawsuit too if they tried to sue Disney for their use of Mouseville, since Disney used it first. I guess Disney people just decided to act like cowards and thus changed Mouseville into Mouseton for a flimsy reason. Like RobbK1, I wish they would have kept Mouseville out of respect for Gottfredson's work, and out of consistency, but I guess it's too late now to change the name from Mouseton back to Mouseville. I mean, in January 1994 David Gerstein wrote that Mouseton "has been used *so* often that I think that calling the town something else now would be quite unsettling. Actually, I wouldn't *mind* Mouseville at all, but I think that the name Mouseton is settled by now..." If it was unsettling to change it back more than 25 years ago, I think now it would be much worse.
But I agree with you that Mouseton and Duckburg aren't in the same state, or even the same universe (like Rosa, I'm an extreme splitter on the lumper-splitter scale), and there is a lot of evidence from Gottfredson's work that Mickey lives on the East Coast, so for me, Mouseton is in Pennecticut, somewhere near where Salem is in our real-world Massachusetts, maybe? I prefer Pennecticut to Mousechusetts because (a) it echoes Calisota and (b) as I said, Mouseton, Mousechusetts is pushing it. I'm okay with Mouseton over Mouseville because it evokes Boston, which is close to where I imagine Mouseton to be. I guess, pending further evidence coming to light, we are crediting Bob Foster with coming up with the name (it's interesting because he worked on the Duck books, not Mickey Mouse Adventures, where the name debuted).
Fun fact: although Rosa is a splitter and likes to think of the mouse characters as existing in a separate universe from the duck characters, in January 1994 he said that, if forced to think of them in the same universe, he would place Mouseton on the east side: I prefer, however, not to believe Mouseton is in Calisota, but is somewhere on the eastern seaboard, keeping Mickey as far from Duckberg as can be managed."
I find it weird that, while Duckburg has always being imagined as being in the West coast, Mouseton on the contrary has continually being moved from the West side to the East side, back and forth. Maybe one day I'll try to compile all instances of flip-flops about whether Mickey lives in the West or in the East in various stories. Although I wonder if it is wise to keep mentioning Pennecticut, which is a fanmade name that doesn't seem to exist outside of this forum, but that could be mistaken for a real thing if we name it all the time.
Mighty Mouse was extremely popular in USA and Canada in the 1940s and 1950s. He wasn't as popular as Mickey Mouse. But, the difference was that from the start of Mighty Mouse in 1942, it was established that he was the protector of Mouseville. This was told in EVERY Mighty Mouse animated cartoon, AND in every Mighty Mouse comic book.
Are you sure it was Mouseville in EVERY Mighty cartoon and comic? According to this message Gerstein wrote, also from January 1994...
Actually, the Terry 'toons were not the least bit consistent... sometimes Mighty lived in Terrytown, other times in Mouseville. When the now-infamous 1988 Bakshi-Kricfalusi Mighty Mouse TV toon appeared, the name Mouseville was chosen for good. That name appeared in Marvel's MiM comic, too... on the cover of more than one issue. Many Disney Comics staffers also did work for Marvel. I think that at that time, getting involved with a Marvel legal entanglement was the last thing Disney wanted...
Floyd Gottfredson's single mention of Mickey Mouse living in Mouseville in one, single newspaper strip panel in 1939, and one reprinted comic book panel in 1942, didn't establish that as a trademark-type "fact" related to Mickey Mouse. Disney wouldn't have won a lawsuit court proceeding to try to keep Terrytoons from using that Mighty Mouse "fact", even as far back as 1942.
Although it doesn't make much of a difference, Gottfredson used the name Mouseville at least a second time, in the 1955 Dr. X continuity:
That newspaper titled "The Mouseville Monitor" appears in two panels. But maybe Robb was writing for the point of view of 1942 Disney, which of course couldn't use a future strip to sue anyone. At any rate, I'd like to know if there are other mentions of Mouseville in addition to the Phantom Blot continuity, its redrawn version, and the Dr X. conitnuity. Unrelated Disney cities also named Mouseville don't count.
Post by Baar Baar Jinx on Sept 23, 2019 21:14:43 GMT
Rosa's full comment on the Mouseton matter is interesting ...
About Mouseton -- that's just what I'd expected! I had never heard the name until Disney Comics used it, and in light of everything they did to poor Mickey, from super-villain penguins to the Phantom Blot's niece wearing a Blot suit and being named "Blottie", I would resist its usage vehemently were it up to me. I wish to wipe away evrything from those 38 months the way they did in DALLAS when Pam dreamed a season of episodes. But if everyone else accepts it, I'll go along. I prefer, however, not to believe Mouseton is in Calisota, but is somewhere on the eastern seaboard, keeping Mickey as far from Duckberg as can be managed. No, I didn't use Clarabelle in my 60th Birthday story. Barks drew her in some Daisy Duck stories, and he also drew Clara Cluck in some of those, and Dumbo in one Grandma Duck tale, and maybe other atrocities! But Barks did not WRITE those stories. Therefore I am free to ignore them.
I wonder if Rosa would have been more positively disposed towards "Mouseton" if, say, Gladstone had come up with the name? In any case, Rosa has no locus standi when it comes to Mickey, since he never wrote any Mickey stories and believes Mickey doesn't exist in the Duck-verse (which I agree with). But his position that Mickey should be placed on the eastern seaboard has a lot to support it, although Rosa was probably unaware of that, given his self-admitted lack of familiarity with Gottfredson's work.
(But ... "Duckberg"? What an embarrassing typo for Don Rosa, of all people, to make!)
Post by TheMidgetMoose on Sept 23, 2019 21:36:36 GMT
I find it sort of sad that we live in a world where there is fear of legal disputes over a name as simple as "Mouseville". I understand the value to copyrights and that intellectual property should be protected, but a name I don't feel like a word, not the entire setting and characters wrapped around the setting but a word, like Mouseville should not be grounds for a legal battle in my opinion, though I'm obviously not an expert on the topic.
No matter what I say or do, know that Jesus loves you.