Duck genealogy nerd that I am, I was curious what writer established that Cornelius was an ancestor of the main characters. Did it begin with Rosa saying he was Grandma Duck's grandfather, or does it predate that? I know Barks created a one-off cousin who was a Coot, but that doesn't necessarily mean he was a descendant of Cornelius.
Post by Scrooge MacDuck on Jan 1, 2019 0:28:28 GMT
I do believe that the first man to come up with the idea was Rosa, no doubt based on the "Cuthbert Coot/Cornelius Coot" homonymy and, indeed, resemblance. It's worth noting however that Johannes A. Grote's DONALDIST version of Duck genealogy, which postdates Rosa's work but entirely disregards it (it has Grandma Duck as Scrooge's sister, to name but the obvious), also has Cornelius as an ancestor of the Ducks in a completely different way.
This Dutch family tree illustration ( inducks.org/story.php?c=HC+DLVETE+1S ) already had Cornelius as the Ducks' ancestor as early as 1984. It's an illustrated version of a tree from 1972 ( goofy313g.free.fr/calisota_online/trees/ducktrees/germanic.html ) , so the idea goes way back. The tree also has Whitewater and Fethry as brothers, so Rosa wasn't the first to come up with either of these ideas.
I personally don't really like the idea of Cornelius as Donald's ancestor, by the way; Donald being a direct descendant of the city's founder would probably give him somewhat of a celebrity status in Duckburg, which is at odds with Donald's everyman persona. Also, it was never Barks' intention, so I'm curious as to why Rosa decided on it.
Last Edit: Jan 1, 2019 1:14:09 GMT by Scroogerello
I personally don't really like the idea of Cornelius as Donald's ancestor, by the way; Donald being a direct descendant of the city's founder would probably give him somewhat of a celebrity status in Duckburg, which is at odds with Donald's everyman persona.
I'm with you there. His being the nephew of and heir apparent to the richest man in the world is similarly problematic, in a more egregious way I'd say, but of course there's no help for that.
I personally don't really like the idea of Cornelius as Donald's ancestor, by the way; Donald being a direct descendant of the city's founder would probably give him somewhat of a celebrity status in Duckburg, which is at odds with Donald's everyman persona.
I'm with you there. His being the nephew of and heir apparent to the richest man in the world is similarly problematic, in a more egregious way I'd say, but of course there's no help for that.
We see in "The Fabulous Fixer" that Cornelia Coot, great-granddaughter of Cornelius Coot, is considered the most direct descendant, perhaps because he bears the surname of the Coot descends from the eldest of Cornelius's sons.
So Donald Duck hardly receives attention for this, if you think about half of the ducks on the Rose tree descend from Cornelius, it's normal for a person to have dozens of descendants after a hundred years.
I'm with you there. His being the nephew of and heir apparent to the richest man in the world is similarly problematic, in a more egregious way I'd say, but of course there's no help for that.
We see in "The Fabulous Fixer" that Cornelia Coot, great-granddaughter of Cornelius Coot, viene considerata la più diretta discendente, forse perchè porta il cognome dei Coot è discende dal maggiore dei figli di Cornelius.
You appear to have switched language halfway through this sentence, which is kind of hilarious but not exactly intelligible.
The tree also has Whitewater and Fethry as brothers, so Rosa wasn't the first to come up with either of these ideas.
Not to get too off-topic, but this is one of only two relationships that Rosa has proposed that I disagree with. Barks clearly stated that Whitewater was a "distant" cousin of Donald's. Nobody would describe the son of one's father's brother, i.e., a first cousin, as "distant". Also, in "Log Jockey", Donald and Whitewater have never met before, and Donald only learns about Whitewater by "reading about him in a family album". This would all be unlikely if they were so closely related (not that first cousins in real life couldn't first meet in adulthood, but the fact that they're unaware of each other's very existence seems unusual). Still, it's interesting that someone before Rosa came up with the Fethry-Whitewater siblinghood (although, does the tree have them as Donald's first cousins also? I can't quite tell).
We see in "The Fabulous Fixer" that Cornelia Coot, great-granddaughter of Cornelius Coot, is considered the most direct descendant, perhaps because he bears the surname of the Coot descends from the eldest of Cornelius's sons.
You appear to have switched language halfway through this sentence, which is kind of hilarious but not exactly intelligible.
Sorry, you're right, I did not notice. I have fixed the sentence.
The tree also has Whitewater and Fethry as brothers, so Rosa wasn't the first to come up with either of these ideas.
Not to get too off-topic, but this is one of only two relationships that Rosa has proposed that I disagree with. Barks clearly stated that Whitewater was a "distant" cousin of Donald's. Nobody would describe the son of one's father's brother, i.e., a first cousin, as "distant". Also, in "Log Jockey", Donald and Whitewater have never met before, and Donald only learns about Whitewater by "reading about him in a family album". This would all be unlikely if they were so closely related (not that first cousins in real life couldn't first meet in adulthood, but the fact that they're unaware of each other's very existence seems unusual). Still, it's interesting that someone before Rosa came up with the Fethry-Whitewater siblinghood (although, does the tree have them as Donald's first cousins also? I can't quite tell).
Your observation is interesting, in fact it's rare to know a first cousin and then not to know his brother.
In Van Schuijlenburg's tree, I think Donald is Fethry's fifth cousin.
English definition nerd here: "first cousins" share a set of grandparents (but not parents). "Second cousins" share a set of great-grandparents (but not grandparents). "Fifth cousins" would share only a set of great-great-great-great-grandparents (but not great-great-great-grandparents). Is that what you mean?
The tree also has Whitewater and Fethry as brothers, so Rosa wasn't the first to come up with either of these ideas.
Not to get too off-topic, but this is one of only two relationships that Rosa has proposed that I disagree with. Barks clearly stated that Whitewater was a "distant" cousin of Donald's. Nobody would describe the son of one's father's brother, i.e., a first cousin, as "distant". Also, in "Log Jockey", Donald and Whitewater have never met before, and Donald only learns about Whitewater by "reading about him in a family album". This would all be unlikely if they were so closely related (not that first cousins in real life couldn't first meet in adulthood, but the fact that they're unaware of each other's very existence seems unusual).
I agree, and I think Rosa probably realized this well; most likely the only reason Rosa put him as a first cousin was because indicating a more distant relationship would have complicated the family tree (similar to how Donald's cousin Cuthbert and Aunt Fanny are brother and sister here, even though they are supposed to be at least one generation apart).
Although, according to a Fethry story by Al Hubbard and Dick Kinney ( inducks.org/story.php?c=S+64136 ), Fethry is also "distantly related" to Donald, and therefore, like Whitewater, not a first cousin of Donald's.
Although, according to a Fethry story by Al Hubbard and Dick Kinney ( inducks.org/story.php?c=S+64136 ), Fethry is also "distantly related" to Donald, and therefore, like Whitewater, not a first cousin of Donald's.
Now that's interesting, I wasn't aware of that before. I've always happily adopted the idea of Fethry being Donald's first cousin into my headcanon, but this revelation by Hubbard/Kinney, Fethry's creators, is making me seriously rethink that position.
English definition nerd here: "first cousins" share a set of grandparents (but not parents). "Second cousins" share a set of great-grandparents (but not grandparents). "Fifth cousins" would share only a set of great-great-great-great-grandparents (but not great-great-great-grandparents). Is that what you mean?
In Van Schuijlenburg's tree Donald and Feltry have the same great great granpa. Degrees between cousins can be calculated by counting links as in this graph:
English definition nerd here: "first cousins" share a set of grandparents (but not parents). "Second cousins" share a set of great-grandparents (but not grandparents). "Fifth cousins" would share only a set of great-great-great-great-grandparents (but not great-great-great-grandparents). Is that what you mean?
In Van Schuijlenburg's tree Donald and Feltry have the same great great granpa. Degrees between cousins can be calculated by counting links as in this graph:
If Donald and Fethry/Whitewater share a set of great-great-grandparents on Van Schuijlenburg's tree, that makes them third cousins. I remember Lars Jensen (who I believe is the only author to use Whitewater besides Barks) once did a story where he specified the relationship between Donald and Whitewater by making Whitewater a nephew of Douglas McDuck, i.e. a second cousin of Donald.