Brady, Wiki, and Dishonesty: A Tale of Censorship

[Scrooge MacDuck]

Or, Part III of the "Hire Them Back You Blind Fools" Campaign. 

My opinion of Erin Brady has recently downgraded from "not qualified for the job, but means well" to "loathed villain". Until recently, the Wiki page for Erin Brady hosted a picture of her taken from one of her (public!) social networks profiles, as well as an overview of her career (as I could parse it from the interview she gave and from her LinkedIn profile).

There were also two paragraphs detailing the fact that her Disney works haven't exactly been universally popular in the fandom, to say the least. 

I think Ms Brady must have taken issue to the latter item, because lo and behold what the article had to be stripped to by a member of the Wikia Staff after she made a personal and explicit request for the material to be removed. For "copyright reasons". If I want to return to the original, not-written-by-a-robot text for good, I'll have to find specific quotes and citations for every damn thing in there, clearly because that way if Brady sues for libel or something, Wikia can wash its hands of the matter by saying "who, us? we were just quoting what other non-Wikia people were saying". And under no circumstances will they let us reupload the image. Unless I get written permission from Erin Brady, because right, that is a thing that could happen now. 

On the bright side, our inability to use a real photograph means that by our policies we have to resort to a drawing to illustrate the page. Does someone feel like caricaturing a mean translator? Anyone? (Am I being petty? Maybe. But seriously… maybe it ought not to be a caricature, but if someone could volunteer to draw a likeness of Ms Brady, we need one. I'll supply the source photograph — I still have it kicking around my hard drive, I just can't upload it anywhere because Erin would sue.)

[Monkey_Feyerabend]

Come on, she has all the right to ask you to remove her picture. I would have done the same, honestly.
I do not know if the law allows it or not, but I do not care: taking someone's picture from a social media account and use it on your web page without asking for permission is inappropriate, or at very least highly impolite.

Moreover, I would honestly suggest you to tone down this repeated j'accuse of yours against this translator. I do not know how bad her translations are and to what extent it is her fault for that (I suspect not at all, or very few), but in any case you seem to me at the edge of public harassment. Which is not fine. Just a kind suggestion, then do what you want.

[Scrooge MacDuck]

Jan 15, 2019 18:27:29 GMT Monkey_Feyerabend said:

Come on, she has all the right to ask you to remove her picture. I would have done the same, honestly.

Fair enough, though A) it's not like I hacked her computer and stole a personal photo or anything. This is a picture (a profile picture) she posted herself, on the public World Wide Web, to represent herself. And B), if she still wished to see the picture gone, she could have contacted us at the Wiki (we have made it clear in our Policies that we will delete any picture if their rightful owners ask it of us), rather than threaten to sue and take it up with Wikia Staff. 

Also, I would not object nearly as much if she hadn't also taken the opportunity to have the information deleted. 

Jan 15, 2019 18:27:29 GMT Monkey_Feyerabend said:

Moreover, I would honestly suggest you to tone down this repeated j'accuse of yours against this translator. I do not know how bad her translations are and to what extent it is her fault for that (I suspect not at all, or very few), but in any case you seem to me at the edge of public harassment. Which is not fine. Just a kind suggestion, then do what you want.

There I would have agreed with you yesterday, you see. I have thus far followed the policy (dating back to talk of Kay Wright on TIAH) of criticizing the work and not the person.

I (and many others) find Erin Brady's Disney comic translations to be horrendous hackjobs, and while some of it I do lay at the feet of the editors and their Disney overlords, some particularly egregious failures of language must be credited to Brady's translation itself, as even the most draconian directive of "go simple" is no excuse for using phrases that just plain don't exist, i.e. "What a… happy surprise!". Those translations are bad. And I will speak my mind on this no matter what, just as even those of us (like me) who love Warren Spector and James Silvani tend to recognize that Rightful Owners is, in many places, quite dire. I thought of my writing of the previous messages on Brady no different than I would if I were discussing the (also cosmically misguided) artstyle of Guiseppe Perego, or the plotting abilities of Vic Lockman. Compare the way GeoX spoke of Del Connell. In all cases, mere criticism, albeit very acerbic. 

This is one thing. 

But if you find my tone more biting today, it is as I said in my opening sentence that my opinion of Erin Brady as a person has indeed taken a turn for the worse — unrelated from her talent per se. Threatening to sue the Wikia overlords behind us Wiki-editors' back and having the page stripped to the dreadful skeleton I linked to was, unless there is some misunderstanding here, pretty inarguably one of those things that would make Bugs Bunny say "of course, you realize that this means war…". Being a reasonable, reasonably-charitable human being, rather than a gleefully sociopathic cartoon rabbit, I won't actually follow through on that, of course.

But. When this person then gives me grief as Wikimaster in the aforementioned way, when it is my work whom she has Staff delete behind my back on the threat of lawsuits—a page, might I add, where I policed my tone considerably, where I praised her obvious enthusiasm in the interview, where I talked at length of her numerous language skills; where the opinion that her Disney work was bad was already explicitly mentioned merely as "an opinion of many prominent fans", as opposed to some actual fact—then it is not, in my opinion, "harassment" to then go out and inform fellow Disney-aficionados with at least a passing interest in Erin Brady's Disney career on the one hand, and in my Wiki project on the other, of these events; and of the fact that I am not okay with them and that in my opinion it is a pretty crummy thing that she did. 

Let me restate that I have moved on from academically finding Erin Brady's work lacking (and saying so, of course, in rather strong and emotional terms; but remember that you did much the same with the Core Four), to being mildly angry with a rather disloyal move she made in relation to the product of my own work. This does not translate to some kind of hatred for the translator in question, nor in any way intent to ‘harass’ her. I take pretty strong issue with a thing she did; I'm not asking anyone to set her house on fire here.

I'm not even calling her names, aside from that 'loathed villain' turn of phrase which I thought you would all be able to recognize as comical hyperbole to communicate my annoyance, much like GeoX doesn't really think Del Connell was a space alien trying to pose as a homo sapiens.

And… Erin Brady. If you're reading this and it's all a big misunderstanding — like, say, you didn't want your picture on another site than the blog where you'd first posted it, you don't know enough of how Wikis work to message anyone but staff, and they misunderstood your comment in deleting the info. I'm all ears. I really want to believe you didn't mean any harm here. The evidence just seems to be pointing against you.

[TheMidgetMoose]

Well, uh, you may already know this, and I hate to break the news to you if you don't. I'll just add a spoiler tag so you can decide whether you'd find out here or on the wiki.

SPOILER: Click to show

{Spoiler}
Ok, so apparently, the Erin Brady page has been taken down by the Fandom staff. They say "the person is not a public figure that is well-known." I really don't get that. She's relevant to the contents of the Scrooge McDuck Wiki and I'd say she's certainly well-known within the English-speaking Disney comics fandom, though that's just my perception. I could honestly understand their previous complaints. I understand asking you not to use that image, and I understand them wanting everything to be cited. But this? Having the whole page removed? Is Erin Brady not relevant to Disney comics? I guess maybe this comes down to one's definition of "public figure" and "well-known", but, as I said, I would argue that she is well-known within the English-speaking fandom. As for being a "public figure", I'm honestly not sure if translating comics that contain some of the most popular comic and cartoon characters from around the whole world counts as being a "public figure", but I'd say it comes pretty close to being one. As I said, I understand most of their complaints, and I wasn't even going to comment on this thread as I was somewhat neutral. A full deletion of the Erin Brady, however? This is just too far. I don't blame her, as the staff member who announced the deletion didn't state that she personally requested the deletion, but I blame the staff member for deleting an article that, in my opinion, had no reason to be deleted.

[Scrooge MacDuck]

There is a phrase, which is used in certain blogging circles. It describes particularly hated individuals. The phrase is "literally Voldemort". 

I wasn't going to use it about Erin Brady. That seemed to be crossing a line. 

But… she's literally become She Who Must Not Be Named on the Wiki. So… yeah. 

Very, very literally Voldemort. 

(UGH.)

[Monkey_Feyerabend]

Jan 15, 2019 21:43:38 GMT Scrooge MacDuck said:

Jan 15, 2019 18:27:29 GMT Monkey_Feyerabend said:

 much like GeoX doesn't really think Del Connell was a space alien trying to pose as a homo sapiens.
 

 

[TheMidgetMoose]

Jan 17, 2019 0:17:48 GMT drleevezan said:

Well, they're going to let the Wiki have a page about her, it just can't include any information about her other than the Disney comics which she has translated. So that's something, I suppose.

This is still ridiculous. Any information she revealed in public interviews should, in my opinion, be allowed to be recorded on other websites. If she gave the information away publicly, surely there's nothing wrong with putting it on a fan wiki. If I told certain information in an interview available to the public, I wouldn't be angry at someone for using that information, as, well, I gave it away in a public interview. Of course, I can't honestly tell if Erin Brady herself insisted the page be initially taken down and now turned into a lifeless list of comics translated by her. Nonetheless, it's totally ridiculous, no matter who's requesting it. That's just my two cents.

[The KKM]

Guys. Can we tone it down with this stuff? Like Monkey_Feyerabend says, it's starting to come off a bit obcessive, especially since odds are she's just doing what she's being told by superiors. If we've been asked to tone down on the former IDW staff, I feel it's pretty fair to ask to pipe down a bit on attacking the current staff as well, especially in terms of "TALE OF DISHONESTY AND CENSORSHIP". She didn't run over your dog.

[Scrooge MacDuck]

I refer you to my earlier reply to Monkey. (As for the title, I again thought it was obvious, but it's to be taken as the same kind of hyperbole as "loathed villain" or "Del Connell was a space alien".)

[deb]

Seriously...this whole thing is beginning to creep me out. Let’s not get to the level of Star Wars fans or “Comicsgate” with this. Like someone’s work or not, they deserve to have their privacy respected if they want it. Let’s not turn this into a personal vendetta against Erin Brady. In this sort of climate, why would anyone want to be in a creative field if they’re going to be publicly raked over the coals and attacked? Flipping burgers or cashiering starts to look better by comparison.

[Scrooge MacDuck]

That's a very good point. On the other hand, there's also the fact that if artists start censoring criticism of their work, there's less incentive for them to do their best/for editors to hire the best. 

[TheMidgetMoose]

Jan 18, 2019 11:48:44 GMT The KKM said:

Guys. Can we tone it down with this stuff? Like Monkey_Feyerabend says, it's starting to come off a bit obcessive, especially since odds are she's just doing what she's being told by superiors. If we've been asked to tone down on the former IDW staff, I feel it's pretty fair to ask to pipe down a bit on attacking the current staff as well, especially in terms of "TALE OF DISHONESTY AND CENSORSHIP". She didn't run over your dog.

I do apologize if I have said anything inappropriate or exceedingly rude. I did not intend to do so. Furthermore, my arguments were not against Erin Brady, but against the folks at the Fandom website who said that the Scrooge McDuck Wiki could not have an article on her as she is not, according to them, a public figure. I have never read a single comic translated by Erin Brady, so I do not criticize her work, seeing as I've never read any of it. Furthermore, I can kind of understand the initial complaints. While the picture used in the Wiki was a picture that she had made public on the Internet, I can understand her not wanting to be used. I also fully understand asking an article to include citations. I thought the picture request was just a little immature, but, as I said, I have nothing against Brady as a person. Seeing as that is the case, it didn't bother me too much, though I understood Scrooge MacDuck's frustration.

It was only when the article was taken down that my problems began. As far as I can tell, it was not Brady that took the article down, but "the senior leaders in the team" at Fandom. That action is what I thought to be wholly ridiculous, and I thought it was time to let my voice be heard and make it clear that I think she does qualify as a public figure, at least to an extent, and that an article on her should be deleted. After all, she is, as far as I know, the sole American translator for comics that contain some of the most popular comic and cartoon characters worldwide. Even if the American readership isn't too large, these are still extremely famous characters globally, and their comics are, if my understanding is correct, being translated into English solely by her. I understand her or anyone else not wanting a negative article on her to exist, but a neutral article that uses information given straight from her in interviews should, in my mind, be allowed to exist. To me, she's significant enough figure to merit an article. I'm perfectly neutral as to whether her translations are good or not as, let me repeat, I've never read them.

I hope that I haven't seemed unreasonable or rude in anything I've said on this thread. I apologize if I came across that way. My only complaint is against those who don't want a well-written, informative article on her to be written, which I see as, to repeat myself, wholly ridiculous. Otherwise, I'm still pretty neutral on the whole subject, and I genuinely hope I haven't given off the wrong impression. I was simply trying to advocate for her to have an article that covers information she herself has given away in public interviews. If I seemed overly-hostile or rude in the way I conveyed these opinions, I do apologize.

[Mesterius]

I kind of feel the same as deb and The KKM, this is going a little too far. And as The KMM mentioned we don't know the full reasons why Brady is doing this. In principle, I agree that public information is public information, but still...

And Scrooge MacDuck, if your intention really is that your comments about Brady ("literally Voldemort" etc) should be read as "comic hyperbole", it might be a sign that it's not working when you have to explain this intention over and over again.

By the way... I imagine that some readers coming to this thread are curious about what the Wiki page on Brady used to say, considering that's what this is all about. For anyone who's interested, the old version of the page can still be read via Google Cache.

[Scrooge MacDuck]

Jan 19, 2019 19:29:14 GMT Mesterius said:

And Scrooge MacDuck, if your intention really is that your comments about Brady ("literally Voldemort" etc) should be read as "comic hyperbole", it might be a sign that it's not working when you have to explain this intention over and over again.

Maybe. Tis well-known that one of the thorniest problems for Internet-writers is the tricky art of getting readers to recognize sarcasm for what it is… so at least I fail in good and numerous company. 

(As for the "literally Voldemort" comment in particular, though, that wasn't enough 'comic hyperbole' so much as a pun; see the message again. The idea was that, as I explicitly said, calling her this for the expected reason of "Person X is so terrible they might as well be that famous evil sorcerer" would be distasteful overkill… but the Wikia dictates at the time made it that the comparison was now wholly appropriate for the unrelated reason of both now having a taboo about calling them by name.)

Jan 19, 2019 19:29:14 GMT Mesterius said:

I kind of feel the same as deb and The KKM, this is going a little too far. And as The KMM mentioned we don't know the full reasons why Brady is doing this. In principle, I agree that public information is public information, but still...

On that record, see my lengthy reply to Monkey earlier upthread, whose entire point was to clarify my intentions, stripped of the snark. I specifically noted the possibility (though I consider it remote) that Ms Brady had other, much better reasons that what we're led to believe for what she has done; I invite her (or anyone with knowledge of said motives) to speak up if so. But as long as I acknowledge this possibility, it's not going to stop me from otherwise discussing the other, much more obvious (and unpleasant) option — any more than a policeman would be stopped from crying "THIEF" at an apparent pickpocket, even if there's a chance, for all we know, that they are the object's original owner and are recovering their property from the actual thief.

[Spectrus]

Jan 15, 2019 18:27:29 GMT Monkey_Feyerabend said:

Come on, she has all the right to ask you to remove her picture. I would have done the same, honestly.
I do not know if the law allows it or not, but I do not care: taking someone's picture from a social media account and use it on your web page without asking for permission is inappropriate, or at very least highly impolite.

Moreover, I would honestly suggest you to tone down this repeated j'accuse of yours against this translator. I do not know how bad her translations are and to what extent it is her fault for that (I suspect not at all, or very few), but in any case you seem to me at the edge of public harassment. Which is not fine. Just a kind suggestion, then do what you want.

This. I actually contacted her with the clear idea of a) alerting her to the way her work is being discussed (with the possible view to taking some of the criticism to heart) and b) allowing her to respond to such criticisms. After all, it would only be fair compared to some of the discussions we've had with Joe, Thad & David. (... especially when it comes to ruining somebody's work life by posting negative things about them - this is one of the things that the old translating team sometimes alluded to, but it had never gone beyond criticism on forums/blog posts...)

And if you don't like somebody, it's not a good idea to write a wiki article about them. Chances are your negativity is going to show through anyhow.