Calisota and Calidornia

[timoro]

Calisota was first mentioned in Barks' story The Gilded Man (1952). Just as we all know. Scarpa used the name Calidornia in his Mickey adventure in 1961 "Imperatore della Calidornia".
I wonder why Scarpa chosed Calidornia instead of Calisota? Unless Calisota was translated as Calidornia in Italian version of The Gilded Man "Paperino contro l'uomo d'oro"? Did that translation mention the name of the state? Was it translated or left as it is as "Calisota"?

Timo

[pollux]

In many European localisations the translators try to mask the fact that Duckburg and Mouseton are supposed to be located in America, in Calisota and Pennecticut. Instead they try to locate them in their homelands.

[Scrooge MacDuck]

Pollux: you're right, of course, but this isn't the case in Emperor of Calidornia, which explicitly places Mouseton somewhere in the United States of America. 

The simple reason Scarpa used “Calidornia” is that “Calisota” hadn't yet been created at the time, or, if it had, hadn't been translated into Italian yet (I forget which). At any rate it wasn't anything near to well-established. In American comics as well, you will find alternative fictional states; I believe there's one 1950's story (not by Barks) where Scrooge is shown to live in “Califrisco”. 

[RobbK1]

Mar 29, 2019 20:11:25 GMT Scrooge MacDuck said:

Pollux: you're right, of course, but this isn't the case in Emperor of Calidornia, which explicitly places Mouseton somewhere in the United States of America. 

The simple reason Scarpa used “Calidornia” is that “Calisota” hadn't yet been created at the time, or, if it had, hadn't been translated into Italian yet (I forget which). At any rate it wasn't anything near to well-established. In American comics as well, you will find alternative fictional states; I believe there's one 1950's story (not by Barks) where Scrooge is shown to live in “Califrisco”. 

Barks' "Calisota was coined in 1952.  Scarpa used "Calidornia later (1955 or 1956?).  But, perhaps "The Gilded Man" hadn't been translated yet into Italian.

[The KKM]

Even if it had, Scarpa might've just not remembered that detail of the story, even.

[Ramapith]

Mar 29, 2019 19:46:22 GMT pollux said:

In many European localisations the translators try to mask the fact that Duckburg and Mouseton are supposed to be located in America, in Calisota and Pennecticut. Instead they try to locate them in their homelands.

There is no "supposed to be."

"Pennecticut" is fanon. It originated on a fan wiki, created by a non-professional who came up with his/her own idea about the place where they wanted Mouseton to be located, with no approval from creators or publishers or Disney.

A lot of actual English language comics have presented Mouseton as being located in Calisota. No English language comics have ever used "Pennecticut," for better or worse.

As a sometime pro, I've often been concerned about wikis absorbing unofficial canon, simply because it often leads to others—fans, pros, and both—mistaking that information for fact.

[sirredknee]

Mar 29, 2019 20:11:25 GMT Scrooge MacDuck said:

I believe there's one 1950's story (not by Barks) where Scrooge is shown to live in “Califrisco”. 

"Donald Duck Captures the Range Rustlers“ by Murry.

[Scrooge MacDuck]

Mar 30, 2019 6:54:13 GMT Ramapith said:

There is no "supposed to be."

Well… technically, that is fact precisely what Pennecticut is — supposed. Heheh.

[Dr Ivo G Bombastus]

What I find odd is, not having The Gilded Man in front of him to draw from, Scarpa nevertheless decided that the characters lived somewhere California-like.

[pollux]

Because that is where the Disney company is from. On maps, Duckburg is often located where Los Angeles is in real life.

[Baar Baar Jinx]

Apr 4, 2019 21:55:55 GMT Dr Ivo G Bombastus said:

What I find odd is, not having The Gilded Man in front of him to draw from, Scarpa nevertheless decided that the characters lived somewhere California-like.

Also, that he chose to use a variation of California, rather than California itself.

I also consider it remarkable that, independently and much earlier, Gottfredson also named a fictional state after a portmanteau of two actual states (Wyozona).  Unless Barks was inspired by this to create Calisota (which seems unlikely because it was an obscure reference used, I believe, only once), it's an amazing coincidence.

[RobbK1]

Apr 5, 2019 2:49:59 GMT Baar Baar Jinx said:

Apr 4, 2019 21:55:55 GMT Dr Ivo G Bombastus said:

What I find odd is, not having The Gilded Man in front of him to draw from, Scarpa nevertheless decided that the characters lived somewhere California-like.

Also, that he chose to use a variation of California, rather than California itself.

I also consider it remarkable that, independently and much earlier, Gottfredson also named a fictional state after a portmanteau of two actual states (Wyozona).  Unless Barks was inspired by this to create Calisota (which seems unlikely because it was an obscure reference used, I believe, only once), it's an amazing coincidence.

I don't think it's a tremendous coincidence, because mixing the names of 2 states is a logical choice for use as a "fictional" state.  I remember "Pennsyltucky" having been used in fiction writing from the late 1940s or early 1950s of my childhood.

[timoro]

The thing is that The Gilded Man was translated in Italian right away in Albi d'oro 52357 as "Paperino contro l'uomo d'oro". So Romano Scarpa must have seen that. The thing I basicly would like to know is that how Calisota was translated in that version? As "Calisota" or perhaps "Calidornia"?

Timo

[Baar Baar Jinx]

Apr 25, 2019 8:46:14 GMT timoro said:

The thing is that The Gilded Man was translated in Italian right away in Albi d'oro 52357 as "Paperino contro l'uomo d'oro". So Romano Scarpa must have seen that. The thing I basicly would like to know is that how Calisota was translated in that version? As "Calisota" or perhaps "Calidornia"?

Timo

Good point! That might explain the "coincidence" (though it would also mean that this is where Scarpa took the leap that Barks apparently didn't, and put Mickey and Donald in the same state). Does anybody have the answer?

[juicymcduck]

Years later, I have a contribution to make to this thread. I'm not sure from which Italian edition of the story this comes from (because I didn't properly label it, ugh!) but I managed to find this panel buried somewhere in my files:



Note that, for some reason, it's Callisota, with two Ls.