Mainly because I don’t accept his Scrooge. He’s such a wildly different character than we’re used to.
Taliaferro's Scrooge seems to have inherited his wealth from his father, dropped out of school because he had a lot of money, and likes to flaunt his wealth, especially to try and attract women far too young for him. Also, piecing together revelations from various Taliaferro strips, Scrooge's father seems to be American (or at least have emigrated and made his fortune in America) and have become wealthy by marrying a rich widow. So yes, Taliaferro's history of the McDuck clan is laughably at odds with the Barks/Rosa version.
So should Sock be taken as the first cousin of HD&L, or as a cousin in a wider meaning? If he’s their first cousin it would seem unlikely that his father Gus is the same Gus mentioned by Grandma.
I think this mostly depends on your interpretation of "Uncle Gus." If you interpret the Uncle Gus that Grandma refers to and the Uncle Gus that sent Sock to visit Donald as the same individual, then it would seem most likely that Sock is actually Donald's first cousin, making a him a first cousin once removed of HDL. This may sound crazy, but remember that HDL were not present in the strip where Grandma referred to Uncle Gus, which makes it unlikely that he is HDL's uncle. Why would she bother to refer to him as "uncle" when his nephews aren't around? If he was HDL's uncle, she'd probably be her grandson or grandson-in-law's brother, so I doubt she'd refer to him as uncle unless they were there. This means that he is, in all likeliness, either an uncle of Donald's or her own uncle. If he was Grandma's uncle, then this would make it unlikely that he would have a son around HDL's age. It's possible, but unlikely. The simpler and easier-to-swallow interpretation of this is that Gus is Donald's uncle, meaning that his son, Sock, is his cousin. The age disparity between Donald and Sock may make this seem unlikely. Still, if we say Donald is about 25 when these strips are taking place and that Sock is about 12, that's only a 13-year-age difference. It is absolutely possible that first cousins would be 13 years a part, especially if Donald's parent was older than Gus.
On the other hand, if you do not see the two "Uncle Gus" figures as being the same, the possibilities are almost endless. My personal interpretation is that the "Uncle Gus" who sent Sock to visit the Duck family was none other than Cousin Gus Goose. I feel like it is simpler to say that than to have another Gus character who may also be a goose around roughly the same generation on the family tree. That's not to say that I think Sock is Gus's son. I'm pretty sure Sock's official last name is Gosling, which doesn't jive with him being the son of a Goose. Rather, I imagine that Sock is Gus's sister's son, and that he was the writing the letter to Donald to inform him of Sock's arrival because he actually knew Donald, whereas his sister really did not. If what I say is true, he would be HDL's third cousin.
No matter what I say or do, know that Jesus loves you.
Grandmother referred to the brother as "his brother", as if Donald didn't know the fellow. So, he couldn't be Rumpus or Gideon. Furthermore, she didn't refer to him as a "half-brother", which one wouldn't do, normally, but probably would IF the listener hadn't known the person in question even existed. So, I assume that Scrooge had, at least, one full-blooded brother. To me, Taliaferro is a much more trustworthy source than Rosa. I believe Barks first, then Taliaferro, then Strobl....
I don't see the implication that Donald didn't know him. It seems to perfectly reasonable to me to assume it's Gideon. My understanding is that some comics show him as having been a child at the same time Scrooge was, and him still being around when Scrooge was nine doesn't contradict him not being around in stories where Scrooge is said to be ten. Also, don't forget about Scrooge's twin. He could have been the "brother" there as well. I just don't see the point in creating another brother for Scrooge when there are already three, and there isn't really any concrete evidence in this strip that he does have another one.
No matter what I say or do, know that Jesus loves you.
Grandmother referred to the brother as "his brother", as if Donald didn't know the fellow. So, he couldn't be Rumpus or Gideon. Furthermore, she didn't refer to him as a "half-brother", which one wouldn't do, normally, but probably would IF the listener hadn't known the person in question even existed. So, I assume that Scrooge had, at least, one full-blooded brother. To me, Taliaferro is a much more trustworthy source than Rosa. I believe Barks first, then Taliaferro, then Strobl....
I don't see the implication that Donald didn't know him. It seems to perfectly reasonable to me to assume it's Gideon. My understanding is that some comics show him as having been a child at the same time Scrooge was, and him still being around when Scrooge was nine doesn't contradict him not being around in stories where Scrooge is said to be ten. Also, don't forget about Scrooge's twin. He could have been the "brother" there as well. I just don't see the point in creating another brother for Scrooge when there are already three, and there isn't really any concrete evidence in this strip that he does have another one.
Yes, he could easily be Scrooge's twin. I forgot about him. I would vote for him, or Gideon. Scrooge doesn't need 4 brothers, when none of them appear very often.
Yes, he could easily be Scrooge's twin. I forgot about him. I would vote for him, or Gideon. Scrooge doesn't need 4 brothers, when none of them appear very often.
It would have to be either Gideon or the twin brother we've dubbed "Cheeryble". It couldn't be Rumpus anyway, because Scrooge and Rumpus weren't raised together as brothers, and didn't even know that they were so related growing up.
In the Disney cartoon "Chef Donald", Donald also listens to one of Aunt Fanny's radio shows, and Allison's character later made appearances on television as well, during the 1950s.
While the character on the radio show in CHEF DONALD may sound like Allison's character, she is called Mother Mallard, not Aunt Fanny in the show.
It's an important distinction if we want to nail this minutiae down.
So should Sock be taken as the first cousin of HD&L, or as a cousin in a wider meaning? If he’s their first cousin it would seem unlikely that his father Gus is the same Gus mentioned by Grandma.
I think this mostly depends on your interpretation of "Uncle Gus." If you interpret the Uncle Gus that Grandma refers to and the Uncle Gus that sent Sock to visit Donald as the same individual, then it would seem most likely that Sock is actually Donald's first cousin, making a him a first cousin once removed of HDL. This may sound crazy, but remember that HDL were not present in the strip where Grandma referred to Uncle Gus, which makes it unlikely that he is HDL's uncle. Why would she bother to refer to him as "uncle" when his nephews aren't around? If he was HDL's uncle, she'd probably be her grandson or grandson-in-law's brother, so I doubt she'd refer to him as uncle unless they were there. This means that he is, in all likeliness, either an uncle of Donald's or her own uncle. If he was Grandma's uncle, then this would make it unlikely that he would have a son around HDL's age. It's possible, but unlikely. The simpler and easier-to-swallow interpretation of this is that Gus is Donald's uncle, meaning that his son, Sock, is his cousin. The age disparity between Donald and Sock may make this seem unlikely. Still, if we say Donald is about 25 when these strips are taking place and that Sock is about 12, that's only a 13-year-age difference. It is absolutely possible that first cousins would be 13 years a part, especially if Donald's parent was older than Gus.
On the other hand, if you do not see the two "Uncle Gus" figures as being the same, the possibilities are almost endless. My personal interpretation is that the "Uncle Gus" who sent Sock to visit the Duck family was none other than Cousin Gus Goose. I feel like it is simpler to say that than to have another Gus character who may also be a goose around roughly the same generation on the family tree. That's not to say that I think Sock is Gus's son. I'm pretty sure Sock's official last name is Gosling, which doesn't jive with him being the son of a Goose. Rather, I imagine that Sock is Gus's sister's son, and that he was the writing the letter to Donald to inform him of Sock's arrival because he actually knew Donald, whereas his sister really did not. If what I say is true, he would be HDL's third cousin.
I pretty much agree with your reasoning. To me it seems weird for a person to refer to their son as ”uncle”, even with a grandchild in the room. Especially if the grandchild is an adult. But this might be a cultural/personal thing. To me it’s more plausible that that particular Gus is her uncle and that he either was around when Donald was a child, or that he and his neighbors have appeared in so many family stories that Donald should be able to remember them. (This is something I can personally relate to).
With Sock I don’t think I have a preferred theory. I can accept him as a nephew of Gus Goose, that would be the easiest option since I don’t favour Donald having an uncle Gus.
And then there’s the other relatives: aunt Deborah, uncle Willie Waddle and cousin Dora. I would prefer keeping to Rosa’s family tree but I could accept Grandma having more children than we have seen. Quackmore, Eider and Daphne are all adults when we’re introduced to them, so it’s possible that they had other siblings who had moved away. However I prefer Deborah as a sister to Grandpa and Dora as her daughter. This works with Donald calling them aunt and cousin, as it is what his father would had said. Uncle Willie I guess could be a brother-in-law to Grandpa?
Mainly because I don’t accept his Scrooge. He’s such a wildly different character than we’re used to.
Taliaferro's Scrooge seems to have inherited his wealth from his father, dropped out of school because he had a lot of money, and likes to flaunt his wealth, especially to try and attract women far too young for him. Also, piecing together revelations from various Taliaferro strips, Scrooge's father seems to be American (or at least have emigrated and made his fortune in America) and have become wealthy by marrying a rich widow. So yes, Taliaferro's history of the McDuck clan is laughably at odds with the Barks/Rosa version.
I would say the gist of Barks's character is spot-on in Taliaferro's strips. In both Barks's and Taliaferro's work, the main character trait is supposed to be that he is extremely rich, and yet unwilling to spend even the slightest amount of money; that's where the character's comedy has always come from, as well as being the catalyst for practically all of Barks's adventures. The history of Scrooge and his family is usually very different between different authors and stories (there was a Vicar story where he was raised by his uncle Angus, a Martina/Carpi story where he was raised by his grandmother, etc. and I believe he was born in the US in a couple of others), and I wouldn't say it's as important as his characterization.
By the way, in one of Taliaferro's older strips, Scrooge says he was a "poor simple farm boy", so even within the same serial the backstory very much depends on the joke. Although the rich father did become a recurring joke in the later strips, that was probably the only consistent info about Scrooge's family in Taliaferro's strips.
I would say the gist of Barks's character is spot-on in Taliaferro's strips. In both Barks's and Taliaferro's work, the main character trait is supposed to be that he is extremely rich, and yet unwilling to spend even the slightest amount of money; that's where the character's comedy has always come from, as well as being the catalyst for practically all of Barks's adventures.
His history per se isn't the problem, but rather what it means for Scrooge's character. Italian authors didn't always respect that, but in a primarily Barks-based reading of Scrooge, it's also very important that Scrooge feels morally justified in owning his money — that he knows he has earned it through the sweat of his brow and is exceedingly proud of that ("smarter than the smarties, tougher than the toughies"). Only a Poor Old Man wouldn't be nearly as good if it featured the smug, unrepentant old bastard that is Taliaferro's Scrooge.
Maybe the in-universe counterpart is actually called Fanny Mallard?
I suppose this is a possibility. As I was considering these things about Aunt Fanny, I wondered if maybe it would be possible to say that, in-universe, Fran Allison was inspired to create the "Aunt Fanny" persona by Gus's mom, Fanny Goose. I liked this thought, because I thought it would be a neat way to tie in the two Aunt Fanny's. I read, however, that Allison's Aunt Fanny was supposed to be a spinster, and Donald's aunt, Fanny, is not, which makes this hypothesis unlikely. Even if it can't be true, I still like the idea that "Aunt Fanny" is just what everyone calls Fanny Goose, even if they are not one of her niblings.
That said, while I guess there could be a Fanny Mallard, I don't see the purpose in combining the Mother Mallard and Aunt Fanny figures. They could just be two distinct individuals.
No matter what I say or do, know that Jesus loves you.
And then there’s the other relatives: aunt Deborah, uncle Willie Waddle and cousin Dora. I would prefer keeping to Rosa’s family tree but I could accept Grandma having more children than we have seen. Quackmore, Eider and Daphne are all adults when we’re introduced to them, so it’s possible that they had other siblings who had moved away. However I prefer Deborah as a sister to Grandpa and Dora as her daughter. This works with Donald calling them aunt and cousin, as it is what his father would had said. Uncle Willie I guess could be a brother-in-law to Grandpa?
I could accept this, but I think I like the theory LP created (at least, I think LP was the first one to come up with it) that Dora is Fethry's sister and Dugan's mother better. (His tree can be seen here: featherysociety.proboards.com/attachment/download/828). I know Scrooge MacDuck suggested in his tree that the Dora who appears in some Strobl stories is the same as Cousin Dora. I don't know if it's possible for this Dora to be the same as Dugan's mother, but I'd kind of like to think it is. I haven't actually read any stories with Dora in it, by the way.
I, too, appreciate and would prefer not to contradict Rosa's tree. That said, I honestly feel like Grandma and Grandpa should have more children. Three seems kind of low for a farming family at the turn of the 20th century. I'm not sure what the average was, but I have ancestors in my own family tree from the same era that had as many as twelve. Also, I think I've heard that they some farming couples would intentionally have many children, in hopes that they would have more help with running the farm. That may not be true, but if it is, then it gives more weight to the concept that Grandma and Grandpa should have more children than three. Thus, I have no problem with adding in Deborah as another child of Grandma and Grandpa. I don't think it creates any major issues.
Also, how do you know that Eider and Daphne were adults in "The Invader of Fort Duckburg"? I know that they are drawn like they are full-grown, but I didn't know that they were confirmed adults. I had assumed they were teenagers.
No matter what I say or do, know that Jesus loves you.
I, too, appreciate and would prefer not to contradict Rosa's tree. That said, I honestly feel like Grandma and Grandpa should have more children. Three seems kind of low for a farming family at the turn of the 20th century. I'm not sure what the average was, but I have ancestors in my own family tree from the same era that had as many as twelve. Also, I think I've heard that they some farming couples would intentionally have many children, in hopes that they would have more help with running the farm. That may not be true, but if it is, then it gives more weight to the concept that Grandma and Grandpa should have more children than three. Thus, I have no problem with adding in Deborah as another child of Grandma and Grandpa. I don't think it creates any major issues.
Yeah, farmers having ten kids or so was normal back then. As were a higher degree of childhood mortality, so who knows...
Also, how do you know that Eider and Daphne were adults in "The Invader of Fort Duckburg"? I know that they are drawn like they are full-grown, but I didn't know that they were confirmed adults. I had assumed they were teenagers.
That was just an assumption based on how they were drawn and Quackmore being born in 1875. They could definitely be in their late teens.
That said, while I guess there could be a Fanny Mallard, I don't see the purpose in combining the Mother Mallard and Aunt Fanny figures. They could just be two distinct individuals.
I'd agree.
Remember that CHEF DONALD, and its comics adaptation, ends with Donald rushing to the radio station and beating up Mother Mallard without even giving her a chance to protest or defend herself. In the comic, he goes as far as implying afterward that he knocked her out (commenting that her eyes are shut)!
While Donald is known for his bad temper and constant fight-starting, it seems hard to believe that he'd treat a fairly close adult relative this way. Even when starting a fight with Scrooge he usually gives him the benefit of defending himself.