Howdy Disney TV & Comics fans! (resurrected DCF thread)
Nov 8, 2019 19:43:37 GMT
Scroogerello likes this
Post by Baar Baar Jinx on Nov 8, 2019 19:43:37 GMT
I thought this one was interesting because it contained some behind the scenes information about DuckTales '87 (some of which we've already discussed elsewhere, but still) and discussion of Scrooge's accent.
Mike Peraza 2012-07-03, 08:43:50
I was sent a link to this site which was discussing some of the tales from my blog, in particular my reminiscences of working on shows like "Ducktales", "Talespin", "Goof Troop", "Darkwing Duck" and other titles. My blog link is here:
michaelperaza.blogspot.com/search/label/Saturday%20Morning%20Memories
I'm thrilled that there are folks out there who still remember and enjoyed those efforts and happy to meet you all. I'll be doing a future story in the blog about the comics I did for Disney in the near future that I hope you'll enjoy.
Best wishes,
Mike
I was sent a link to this site which was discussing some of the tales from my blog, in particular my reminiscences of working on shows like "Ducktales", "Talespin", "Goof Troop", "Darkwing Duck" and other titles. My blog link is here:
michaelperaza.blogspot.com/search/label/Saturday%20Morning%20Memories
I'm thrilled that there are folks out there who still remember and enjoyed those efforts and happy to meet you all. I'll be doing a future story in the blog about the comics I did for Disney in the near future that I hope you'll enjoy.
Best wishes,
Mike
DuckburgUSA 2012-07-03, 18:37:07
Hi, Mike and welcome to the Forum!
I had posted a link to your blog last year here, hopefully it brought you some traffic and possibly some nice comments.
There are people from all around the world on this forum, and the posters are very civil, so please feel free to check in from time to time. The new paintings you created for the updated Dumbo attraction in Florida look GREAT, and 100% true to the look of the film.
Keep up the outstanding work, and please let us know of any updates. Folks here love some ducks, mice and etc.
Hi, Mike and welcome to the Forum!
I had posted a link to your blog last year here, hopefully it brought you some traffic and possibly some nice comments.
There are people from all around the world on this forum, and the posters are very civil, so please feel free to check in from time to time. The new paintings you created for the updated Dumbo attraction in Florida look GREAT, and 100% true to the look of the film.
Keep up the outstanding work, and please let us know of any updates. Folks here love some ducks, mice and etc.
stavner 2012-07-03, 18:50:23
Welcome!
Welcome!
Mike Peraza 2012-07-03, 20:02:55
Hello DuckburgUSA,
Thank you for the warm welcome! Your comments were very appreciated on my blog and I'm very happy you enjoyed the pieces. Glad you enjoyed the DUMBO paintings too as it is one of my favorite Disney films, so rich in heartfelt scenes. It's fun to stumble into a site like this where so many people are familiar with the Disney "Ducks".
Hello DuckburgUSA,
Thank you for the warm welcome! Your comments were very appreciated on my blog and I'm very happy you enjoyed the pieces. Glad you enjoyed the DUMBO paintings too as it is one of my favorite Disney films, so rich in heartfelt scenes. It's fun to stumble into a site like this where so many people are familiar with the Disney "Ducks".
Lars Jensen 2012-07-03, 20:53:35
Welcome from me as well.
Mike, a question: Disney produced movies based on DuckTales and Goof Troop. Do you know why that never happened for Darkwing Duck, Gummi Bears, Chip 'n Dale Rescue Rangers or TaleSpin? (Yes, I wanted them all. Still do.)
Welcome from me as well.
Mike, a question: Disney produced movies based on DuckTales and Goof Troop. Do you know why that never happened for Darkwing Duck, Gummi Bears, Chip 'n Dale Rescue Rangers or TaleSpin? (Yes, I wanted them all. Still do.)
Mike Peraza 2012-07-03, 21:23:15
"DuckTale"s was wildly successful during it's premiere and throughout the run of the series so it was inevitable that it warranted a "feature" version. "Goof Troop" got the same excitement and backing from the studio due to it starring one of the original trio of the Disney Stock company of Mickey, Donald and Goofy. It also comes down to timing and perceived box office. The two that got feature treatment seemed to have the strongest fan base and name recognition at the time they were in production.
"DuckTale"s was wildly successful during it's premiere and throughout the run of the series so it was inevitable that it warranted a "feature" version. "Goof Troop" got the same excitement and backing from the studio due to it starring one of the original trio of the Disney Stock company of Mickey, Donald and Goofy. It also comes down to timing and perceived box office. The two that got feature treatment seemed to have the strongest fan base and name recognition at the time they were in production.
steet 2012-07-04, 11:06:31
Hello Mr.Peraza!
I'm a HUGE TaleSpin fan, so if you would be able to make articles about your work on the show like you did for Darkwing Duck or Ducktales, that would be awesome!!!
I actually own an (active) fansite dedicated to the show :
www.animationsource.org/talespin/en/
If ONLY there had been a TaleSpin film...this would have been the greatest Disney film ever, and it would still have a lot of recognition from Disney *sigh*
Hello Mr.Peraza!
I'm a HUGE TaleSpin fan, so if you would be able to make articles about your work on the show like you did for Darkwing Duck or Ducktales, that would be awesome!!!
I actually own an (active) fansite dedicated to the show :
www.animationsource.org/talespin/en/
If ONLY there had been a TaleSpin film...this would have been the greatest Disney film ever, and it would still have a lot of recognition from Disney *sigh*
kimba_1962 2012-07-07, 17:22:33
In truth, I can understand the "argument from Stock Company familiarity" far better than I can the "argument from fan base." GOOF TROOP held its own in the ratings against Warners' original BATMAN series, but I can't recall any sort of organized GT fan base at the time... certainly nowhere NEAR as organized as the RESCUE RANGERS, DARKWING DUCK, and TALE SPIN fan bases. If Disney felt that A GOOFY MOVIE had big box-office potential, then why was it "stealth released" in the spring of 1995, with virtually no advertising support? Andy why completely change the appearance of Goofy back to what he looked like in some of the classic shorts?
Mike Peraza: "DuckTale"s was wildly successful during it's premiere and throughout the run of the series so it was inevitable that it warranted a "feature" version. "Goof Troop" got the same excitement and backing from the studio due to it starring one of the original trio of the Disney Stock company of Mickey, Donald and Goofy. It also comes down to timing and perceived box office. The two that got feature treatment seemed to have the strongest fan base and name recognition at the time they were in production.
Mike Peraza 2012-07-07, 21:26:38
There was actually quite a large fan base for "Goof Troop" when it initially ran and I would have to politely disagree with your assessment that it was a "stealth" release as it was announced not only during the Disney afternoon block but during prime time as well as a huge advertising campaign in various magazines and comics and throughout the theme parks. Goofy's design was never changed drastically from the classic shorts look because we used the "Jack Kinney" as our basic inspiration. If it ain't broke...
There was actually quite a large fan base for "Goof Troop" when it initially ran and I would have to politely disagree with your assessment that it was a "stealth" release as it was announced not only during the Disney afternoon block but during prime time as well as a huge advertising campaign in various magazines and comics and throughout the theme parks. Goofy's design was never changed drastically from the classic shorts look because we used the "Jack Kinney" as our basic inspiration. If it ain't broke...
kimba_1962 2012-07-07, 23:47:16
I remember the "It's hard to be cool when your Dad is goofy" ads for AGM, and that's about it. I wouldn't know about what went on at the parks. As for the GT fan base, I wonder what happened to it? Several of the older series appear to have held onto their fandoms far more successfully than GT.
I remember the "It's hard to be cool when your Dad is goofy" ads for AGM, and that's about it. I wouldn't know about what went on at the parks. As for the GT fan base, I wonder what happened to it? Several of the older series appear to have held onto their fandoms far more successfully than GT.
Baar Baar Jinx 2012-07-08, 00:25:17
I've always been curious about the decision to exclude Donald from the main cast of DuckTales. I always believed it was because his voice was difficult to understand, making it hard to give him a major speaking role, but I've also read that it was because they were afraid he would "overshadow" Scrooge. Your blog alludes to negotiating with the main company to use him, which seems to suggest it was actually a rights issue. How and why exactly was the ultimate decision made?
I've always been curious about the decision to exclude Donald from the main cast of DuckTales. I always believed it was because his voice was difficult to understand, making it hard to give him a major speaking role, but I've also read that it was because they were afraid he would "overshadow" Scrooge. Your blog alludes to negotiating with the main company to use him, which seems to suggest it was actually a rights issue. How and why exactly was the ultimate decision made?
Robb_K 2012-07-08, 01:43:12
I think they made a mistake. I don't see why Donald couldn't have played his Barks role and Launchpad have a much reduced role as a fool. I think Donald's voice is fine for longwinded speeches. I resent that The Nephews', Scrooge's, Daisy's and all other Ducks' voices became "non-ducklike", just so ALL the audience can make out clearly what they are saying at all times. It ruins the "realism" for me. And even Scrooge's Scots brogue was so toned down as to not be recognisable as Scottish. What's the point of using something so watered down as to be unrecognisable?
I'm tired of films being unrealistic (especially in US products). They are very egocentric, not really knowing much about the rest of The World. An early American Alfred Hitchcock film, "Foreign Correspondent" (1940) comes to mind, in which a Dutch diplomat is "kidnapped" by German (WAK) spies before WWII. It supposedly takes place in Amsterdam and its surroundings. It was filmed mostly on a Hollywood lot, and so, most of the actors came from the L.A. area. The "Dutch" diplomat was played by an actor with a heavy German (SOUTH German, no less) accent, which sounded NOTHING like Dutch. When the heroes were in the Dutch countryside, all but one of the "Dutch" residents, and police, were clearly English speakers, who had learned their Dutch lines phonetically, and they sounded TERRIBLE. This was especially true of a little girl, who had the main foreign language part. She sounded like a schoolgirl on her first day of hearing a word in her soon-to-be taken language course (as if she'd never heard each of those words before). I KNOW personally, Dutch families that had members living in L.A. at that time. Couldn't the producer have found a few Dutch-speaking people to use in those scenes so as not to ruin the believability of that film? NO. The powers in the US film industry figure: Almost no Americans know the difference between a German and Dutch accent in English, or, indeed, the difference between the sound of those 2 languages. So why bother?
The same is true for me regarding Donald. Thousands of us grew up hearing Donald's and Huey, Dewey and Louie's quacking. But the new filmmakers and TV producers feel that it's only necessary to cater to the current batch of kids. Not enough of the current batch of American kids know what a Scotsman sounds like to bother catering to them. Maybe instead of being drafted into the military service, there should be forced work in the workhouses of Aberdeen for two years each. Aye, let them learn how a Scotsman really sounds, and maybe learn a wee bit about thrift, in the bargain!
I think they made a mistake. I don't see why Donald couldn't have played his Barks role and Launchpad have a much reduced role as a fool. I think Donald's voice is fine for longwinded speeches. I resent that The Nephews', Scrooge's, Daisy's and all other Ducks' voices became "non-ducklike", just so ALL the audience can make out clearly what they are saying at all times. It ruins the "realism" for me. And even Scrooge's Scots brogue was so toned down as to not be recognisable as Scottish. What's the point of using something so watered down as to be unrecognisable?
I'm tired of films being unrealistic (especially in US products). They are very egocentric, not really knowing much about the rest of The World. An early American Alfred Hitchcock film, "Foreign Correspondent" (1940) comes to mind, in which a Dutch diplomat is "kidnapped" by German (WAK) spies before WWII. It supposedly takes place in Amsterdam and its surroundings. It was filmed mostly on a Hollywood lot, and so, most of the actors came from the L.A. area. The "Dutch" diplomat was played by an actor with a heavy German (SOUTH German, no less) accent, which sounded NOTHING like Dutch. When the heroes were in the Dutch countryside, all but one of the "Dutch" residents, and police, were clearly English speakers, who had learned their Dutch lines phonetically, and they sounded TERRIBLE. This was especially true of a little girl, who had the main foreign language part. She sounded like a schoolgirl on her first day of hearing a word in her soon-to-be taken language course (as if she'd never heard each of those words before). I KNOW personally, Dutch families that had members living in L.A. at that time. Couldn't the producer have found a few Dutch-speaking people to use in those scenes so as not to ruin the believability of that film? NO. The powers in the US film industry figure: Almost no Americans know the difference between a German and Dutch accent in English, or, indeed, the difference between the sound of those 2 languages. So why bother?
The same is true for me regarding Donald. Thousands of us grew up hearing Donald's and Huey, Dewey and Louie's quacking. But the new filmmakers and TV producers feel that it's only necessary to cater to the current batch of kids. Not enough of the current batch of American kids know what a Scotsman sounds like to bother catering to them. Maybe instead of being drafted into the military service, there should be forced work in the workhouses of Aberdeen for two years each. Aye, let them learn how a Scotsman really sounds, and maybe learn a wee bit about thrift, in the bargain!
Tightwad 2012-07-08, 10:17:43
Having been to Scotland and discussed with a few Scots, I can only describe Scrooge's accent as hilariously unrealistic and maybe stereotypical. The most condemning piece of evidence is that Alan Young, despite being from a Scottish family, doesn't have half of Scrooge's accent, a character who spent most of his life outside of Scotland, anyway.
Be one of the leading protagonists and having eloquent dialogue that moves the plot forward? Most likely because he sounds like this?
This issue is nothing new. Barks had suggested a plot to Disney Studios that can only be described as an early version of the Forbidden Valley. It was rejected because Donald's voice prevented from him being the narrator.
They have even made a cartoon on the problems that Donald's voice cause to his daily life.
By maintaining Donald's signature voice?
Even if they changed it, what does it have to do with catering? No one, but possibly a screenplay writer would have reason to ask for Donald's voice to slightly change. Okay, still. What does it have to do with catering to a batch of kids? When did any of them ask for Donald's voice to change?
Actually, when was the last time Donald's voice did change anyway? Why are we talking about catering about something that clearly didn't happen in the first place?
You are specifically singling out the 'new batch of kids' despite this being a problem since Barks' time in the Disney Studios. 75 years ago.
Toned down? Have you heard any Scot having more of a 'scottish' accent than Alan Young?
Having been to Scotland and discussed with a few Scots, I can only describe Scrooge's accent as hilariously unrealistic and maybe stereotypical. The most condemning piece of evidence is that Alan Young, despite being from a Scottish family, doesn't have half of Scrooge's accent, a character who spent most of his life outside of Scotland, anyway.
Robb_K: Not enough of the current batch of American kids know what a Scotsman sounds like to bother catering to them. Maybe instead of being drafted into the military service, there should be forced work in the workhouses of Aberdeen for two years each. Aye, let them learn how a Scotsman really sounds, and maybe learn a wee bit about thrift, in the bargain!
Having been to Scotland and discussed with a few Scots, I can only describe Scrooge's accent as hilariously unrealistic and maybe stereotypical. The most condemning piece of evidence is that Alan Young, despite being from a Scottish family, doesn't have half of Scrooge's accent, a character who spent most of his life outside of Scotland, anyway.
Robb_K: I think they made a mistake. I don't see why Donald couldn't have played his Barks role.
This issue is nothing new. Barks had suggested a plot to Disney Studios that can only be described as an early version of the Forbidden Valley. It was rejected because Donald's voice prevented from him being the narrator.
They have even made a cartoon on the problems that Donald's voice cause to his daily life.
Robb_K: The same is true for me regarding Donald. Thousands of us grew up hearing Donald's and Huey, Dewey and Louie's quacking. But the new filmmakers and TV producers feel that it's only necessary to cater to the current batch of kids.
By maintaining Donald's signature voice?
Even if they changed it, what does it have to do with catering? No one, but possibly a screenplay writer would have reason to ask for Donald's voice to slightly change. Okay, still. What does it have to do with catering to a batch of kids? When did any of them ask for Donald's voice to change?
Actually, when was the last time Donald's voice did change anyway? Why are we talking about catering about something that clearly didn't happen in the first place?
You are specifically singling out the 'new batch of kids' despite this being a problem since Barks' time in the Disney Studios. 75 years ago.
Robb_K: And even Scrooge's Scots brogue was so toned down as to not be recognisable as Scottish. What's the point of using something so watered down as to be unrecognisable?
Robb_K: Not enough of the current batch of American kids know what a Scotsman sounds like to bother catering to them. Maybe instead of being drafted into the military service, there should be forced work in the workhouses of Aberdeen for two years each. Aye, let them learn how a Scotsman really sounds, and maybe learn a wee bit about thrift, in the bargain!
Having been to Scotland and discussed with a few Scots, I can only describe Scrooge's accent as hilariously unrealistic and maybe stereotypical. The most condemning piece of evidence is that Alan Young, despite being from a Scottish family, doesn't have half of Scrooge's accent, a character who spent most of his life outside of Scotland, anyway.
Mike Peraza 2012-07-08, 16:37:57
The "official" reason was that Eisner and others in management at the time considered Donald part of Walt's original trio of stock along with Mickey and Goofy. Donald was to be a "big name" introduction for folks out there who were unfamiliar with Carl's world of Uncle Scrooge and then only make a cameo here and there if needed. It was also a concern that if the show was a failure they did not want to tarnish Donald's star image at the studio. Part of the mandate was that they wanted to have these "new" characters stand on their own without relying on old classic characters like Donald to draw all the interest and thus create a new fan base.
There has always on going concern about Donald's voice being hard to understand going back to "Wise Little Hen" but he was such a lovable hot head and the voice was such an individual display in the sea of so much relatable cartoon voice work that it was never changed.
Goofy went through the same discussions about using "Disney Stock" on a TV series when "Goof Troop" was brought up and it was only decided to go for it but only after much debate. Part of our argument for it was that Goofy had starred in plenty of made for TV episodes during the "World of Color" and so it was not that much of a reach to give it a try. Well. back to my pencils...
The "official" reason was that Eisner and others in management at the time considered Donald part of Walt's original trio of stock along with Mickey and Goofy. Donald was to be a "big name" introduction for folks out there who were unfamiliar with Carl's world of Uncle Scrooge and then only make a cameo here and there if needed. It was also a concern that if the show was a failure they did not want to tarnish Donald's star image at the studio. Part of the mandate was that they wanted to have these "new" characters stand on their own without relying on old classic characters like Donald to draw all the interest and thus create a new fan base.
There has always on going concern about Donald's voice being hard to understand going back to "Wise Little Hen" but he was such a lovable hot head and the voice was such an individual display in the sea of so much relatable cartoon voice work that it was never changed.
Goofy went through the same discussions about using "Disney Stock" on a TV series when "Goof Troop" was brought up and it was only decided to go for it but only after much debate. Part of our argument for it was that Goofy had starred in plenty of made for TV episodes during the "World of Color" and so it was not that much of a reach to give it a try. Well. back to my pencils...
Robb_K 2012-07-08, 17:34:03
A good typical Scots accent would be Robbie Coltrane. The Brogue Alan Young used with Scrooge was watered down from what I would gather. I've spent time in Scotland, in the Highlands (where there has been a lot less mixing with people of English origin). If Scrooge had been born in the late 1800s in The Highlands, he'd have had a very thick brogue speech. If he left Scotland in his early teens (as per Barks) he'd have kept that accent his whole life with only a slight watering down. I have some uncles and aunts who left The Netherlands near age 18-20, and lived in Canada for 70-75 years, and always had a very thick Dutch accent. Virtually all the people I know with a similar history share that same result, other than a couple actors or business people who worked extremely hard at getting rid of their foreign accent. People who leave one language for another after age 13-15, generally carry an accent to their grave in their new language, which only tones down slightly over a long, extended number of years.
I have known many, many people who have found a way to mimic Donald's cartoon speech so well that they could speak that way as their own native tongue if it became necessary. Furthermore, it was fully intelligible. I contend that had producers wanted to, they could have advertised and found such a person or two or three, to handle ALL of the Duck-people (character's) voices. That would have been what I'd have liked. I fully understand that most fans wouldn't require that to enjoy the series. Again, I like realism. I admit that the typical person on the street in Edinburgh doesn't have a heavy brogue. But that has no bearing on how Scrooge McDuck would have spoken when he was age 13 or 95.
A good typical Scots accent would be Robbie Coltrane. The Brogue Alan Young used with Scrooge was watered down from what I would gather. I've spent time in Scotland, in the Highlands (where there has been a lot less mixing with people of English origin). If Scrooge had been born in the late 1800s in The Highlands, he'd have had a very thick brogue speech. If he left Scotland in his early teens (as per Barks) he'd have kept that accent his whole life with only a slight watering down. I have some uncles and aunts who left The Netherlands near age 18-20, and lived in Canada for 70-75 years, and always had a very thick Dutch accent. Virtually all the people I know with a similar history share that same result, other than a couple actors or business people who worked extremely hard at getting rid of their foreign accent. People who leave one language for another after age 13-15, generally carry an accent to their grave in their new language, which only tones down slightly over a long, extended number of years.
I have known many, many people who have found a way to mimic Donald's cartoon speech so well that they could speak that way as their own native tongue if it became necessary. Furthermore, it was fully intelligible. I contend that had producers wanted to, they could have advertised and found such a person or two or three, to handle ALL of the Duck-people (character's) voices. That would have been what I'd have liked. I fully understand that most fans wouldn't require that to enjoy the series. Again, I like realism. I admit that the typical person on the street in Edinburgh doesn't have a heavy brogue. But that has no bearing on how Scrooge McDuck would have spoken when he was age 13 or 95.
kimba_1962 2012-07-09, 00:05:31
If you want to hear an early version of Alan Young's voice for Scrooge -- MUCH earlier than the voice he used for MICKEY'S CHRISTMAS CAROL -- go to:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9miqKm0aB0
My understanding is that Young worked hard to eliminate his native accent after he emigrated to America and sought work in American radio and TV. That was in the late 1940s and early 1950s, so, by the time Young "resurrected" a Scottish accent, he was probably a bit "out of practice." That could account for the "Scotch-lite" nature of Scrooge's voice on DT. That being said, I think the voice works wonderfully for the character, as does Russi Taylor's "quacky, but not TOO quacky" voice for the three Nephews.
If you want to hear an early version of Alan Young's voice for Scrooge -- MUCH earlier than the voice he used for MICKEY'S CHRISTMAS CAROL -- go to:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9miqKm0aB0
My understanding is that Young worked hard to eliminate his native accent after he emigrated to America and sought work in American radio and TV. That was in the late 1940s and early 1950s, so, by the time Young "resurrected" a Scottish accent, he was probably a bit "out of practice." That could account for the "Scotch-lite" nature of Scrooge's voice on DT. That being said, I think the voice works wonderfully for the character, as does Russi Taylor's "quacky, but not TOO quacky" voice for the three Nephews.
Baar Baar Jinx 2012-07-09, 00:59:26
So it was the "overshadowing" concern, and not the "voice" concern, that was the mitigating factor. I'd always wondered. Thanks for clearing that up.
I guess by the time Quack Pack came along, Disney felt confident enough to let Donald sink or swim on his merits? Ironic, I guess, since Quack Pack never picked up the fan following that DuckTales did.
Yes, I recall Young stating that he "fought to get rid of his accent" in an interview about Mickey's Christmas Carol, but that he could "easily get it back". But the relatively mild accent that Scrooge has does fit someone who's spent most of his life outside Scotland. That said, my experience has been that if someone doesn't make an effort to change it, their native accent gets firmly entrenched by the time they're ten, if not younger. I know people who have lived in the US for decades and who still sound like they just got off the plane from their native country.
Are you saying you would have liked all the duck characters to have Donald-like, quacky voices? I don't think I would. Donald owes his very existence to his voice (the story I've heard is that Walt Disney was so enamored of Clarence Nash's duck talk that he created a character to use it). The voice is part of his "species identity". But all the other characters, Scrooge, Daisy, the nephews, Gladstone et al. grew out of Donald with separate identities of their own. They don't need the "duck" voice to be relevant. It actually irritates me when they had the nephews speak with Donald's voice on "House of Mouse" shorts ... this is after DuckTales and Quack Pack! Why not use the wonderful, and more intelligible, Russi Taylor versions all the time? The nephews (and even Daisy very early on) spoke with Donald's voice in the shorts, but now that things are better established, I would rather that not happen any more. And while there were several cartoons in the 50s and the 60s that centered around Donald's voice being incomprehensible, I would have preferred it if they had left that aspect out of DuckTales (I refer to several characters finding him hard to understand, and his being calles "The Garbled One", etc.)
And no, I never had trouble understanding the Nash or Anselmo versions of Donald, but I can see how it might be hard to listen to that voice lecture Scrooge on the merits of ice cream sodas over hoarding money.
And as for Gyro's voice ... I think Will Ryan's try at it in "Soccermania" might have suited him more than Hal Smith's now better known DuckTales version. Does anyone else agree?
Mike Peraza: The "official" reason was that Eisner and others in management at the time considered Donald part of Walt's original trio of stock along with Mickey and Goofy. Donald was to be a "big name" introduction for folks out there who were unfamiliar with Carl's world of Uncle Scrooge and then only make a cameo here and there if needed. It was also a concern that if the show was a failure they did not want to tarnish Donald's star image at the studio.
I guess by the time Quack Pack came along, Disney felt confident enough to let Donald sink or swim on his merits? Ironic, I guess, since Quack Pack never picked up the fan following that DuckTales did.
kimba_1962: My understanding is that Young worked hard to eliminate his native accent after he emigrated to America and sought work in American radio and TV. That was in the late 1940s and early 1950s, so, by the time Young "resurrected" a Scottish accent, he was probably a bit "out of practice." That could account for the "Scotch-lite" nature of Scrooge's voice on DT. That being said, I think the voice works wonderfully for the character, as does Russi Taylor's "quacky, but not TOO quacky" voice for the three Nephews.
Yes, I recall Young stating that he "fought to get rid of his accent" in an interview about Mickey's Christmas Carol, but that he could "easily get it back". But the relatively mild accent that Scrooge has does fit someone who's spent most of his life outside Scotland. That said, my experience has been that if someone doesn't make an effort to change it, their native accent gets firmly entrenched by the time they're ten, if not younger. I know people who have lived in the US for decades and who still sound like they just got off the plane from their native country.
Robb_K: I have known many, many people who have found a way to mimic Donald's cartoon speech so well that they could speak that way as their own native tongue if it became necessary. Furthermore, it was fully intelligible. I contend that had producers wanted to, they could have advertised and found such a person or two or three, to handle ALL of the Duck-people (character's) voices. That would have been what I'd have liked.
Are you saying you would have liked all the duck characters to have Donald-like, quacky voices? I don't think I would. Donald owes his very existence to his voice (the story I've heard is that Walt Disney was so enamored of Clarence Nash's duck talk that he created a character to use it). The voice is part of his "species identity". But all the other characters, Scrooge, Daisy, the nephews, Gladstone et al. grew out of Donald with separate identities of their own. They don't need the "duck" voice to be relevant. It actually irritates me when they had the nephews speak with Donald's voice on "House of Mouse" shorts ... this is after DuckTales and Quack Pack! Why not use the wonderful, and more intelligible, Russi Taylor versions all the time? The nephews (and even Daisy very early on) spoke with Donald's voice in the shorts, but now that things are better established, I would rather that not happen any more. And while there were several cartoons in the 50s and the 60s that centered around Donald's voice being incomprehensible, I would have preferred it if they had left that aspect out of DuckTales (I refer to several characters finding him hard to understand, and his being calles "The Garbled One", etc.)
And no, I never had trouble understanding the Nash or Anselmo versions of Donald, but I can see how it might be hard to listen to that voice lecture Scrooge on the merits of ice cream sodas over hoarding money.
And as for Gyro's voice ... I think Will Ryan's try at it in "Soccermania" might have suited him more than Hal Smith's now better known DuckTales version. Does anyone else agree?
Tightwad 2012-07-09, 01:00:19
Ah, that's a bit of a shame, imo.
Just wondering, to what extent did you seek inspiration from Carl Barks' work? Was there a specific attempt to use the general idea of his stories, or was it more of a casual inspiration thing?
Mike Peraza: The "official" reason was that Eisner and others in management at the time considered Donald part of Walt's original trio of stock along with Mickey and Goofy. Donald was to be a "big name" introduction for folks out there who were unfamiliar with Carl's world of Uncle Scrooge and then only make a cameo here and there if needed. It was also a concern that if the show was a failure they did not want to tarnish Donald's star image at the studio. Part of the mandate was that they wanted to have these "new" characters stand on their own without relying on old classic characters like Donald to draw all the interest and thus create a new fan base.
There has always on going concern about Donald's voice being hard to understand going back to "Wise Little Hen" but he was such a lovable hot head and the voice was such an individual display in the sea of so much relatable cartoon voice work that it was never changed.
Goofy went through the same discussions about using "Disney Stock" on a TV series when "Goof Troop" was brought up and it was only decided to go for it but only after much debate. Part of our argument for it was that Goofy had starred in plenty of made for TV episodes during the "World of Color" and so it was not that much of a reach to give it a try. Well. back to my pencils...
There has always on going concern about Donald's voice being hard to understand going back to "Wise Little Hen" but he was such a lovable hot head and the voice was such an individual display in the sea of so much relatable cartoon voice work that it was never changed.
Goofy went through the same discussions about using "Disney Stock" on a TV series when "Goof Troop" was brought up and it was only decided to go for it but only after much debate. Part of our argument for it was that Goofy had starred in plenty of made for TV episodes during the "World of Color" and so it was not that much of a reach to give it a try. Well. back to my pencils...
Just wondering, to what extent did you seek inspiration from Carl Barks' work? Was there a specific attempt to use the general idea of his stories, or was it more of a casual inspiration thing?
Tightwad 2012-07-09, 01:30:15
What are you basing this on?
If anything, it is severly toned down to the typical accent this actor is trying to catch, with his accent's inflections being much closer to Alan Young's Scrooge (especially the pronounciation of 'r'). Which is actually interesting, because while Robbie maintained his accent (more or less) while portraying Hagrid in the Harry Potter movies, the dialogue Hagrid has in JK Rowling's books is much rougher. If I didn't know that Coltrane had Scottish origins, I could have easily mistaken him to be English.
Disney's voice acting direction in Brave is more in line with Young's and VideoJug's one, too. And that's supposed to pure Celtic too.
But what inflection makes it watered down?
Because I find Robbie Coltrane's accent to be closer to the average Scottish one I have heard so far, and yes, that does make it more realistic, but much lighter than Young's Scroogean one. Scrooge was easily recognized by most people as Scottish, and if a poll were to be made, I think that his accent would be more recognizably (stereotypically) Scottish that Coltrane's one.
Again, I had never realized that Coltrane was impersonating a Scottish character in the HP franchise, until I read JKR's books in English.
Another example: Listen to Sean Connery and Scrooge back-to-back.
To some extent. Of course, in situations where you are surrounded by only the domestic population, (like in Scrooge's situation), your accent is likely to 'degrade'.
Well, there's no doubt of that. That's how Donald cartoons are 'converted' to other languages as well. The same applies to Mickey and Goofey.
Having seen a Greek, Italian and Spanish version of Donald, I have yet to pick up any trace of the original accents, despite the entire dialogue being in foreign languages. That'd essentially destroy characters such as Scrooge, Ludwig, Jose' or Panchito.
Mind you, I could be wrong. I have yet to find any, though. That's not my main issue with Donald's speech anyway.
From a scale of 1-10, how intelligible would you rate this attempt?
Robb_K: A good typical Scots accent would be Robbie Coltrane.
What are you basing this on?
If anything, it is severly toned down to the typical accent this actor is trying to catch, with his accent's inflections being much closer to Alan Young's Scrooge (especially the pronounciation of 'r'). Which is actually interesting, because while Robbie maintained his accent (more or less) while portraying Hagrid in the Harry Potter movies, the dialogue Hagrid has in JK Rowling's books is much rougher. If I didn't know that Coltrane had Scottish origins, I could have easily mistaken him to be English.
Disney's voice acting direction in Brave is more in line with Young's and VideoJug's one, too. And that's supposed to pure Celtic too.
The Brogue Alan Young used with Scrooge was watered down from what I would gather. I've spent time in Scotland, in the Highlands (where there has been a lot less mixing with people of English origin). If Scrooge had been born in the late 1800s in The Highlands, he'd have had a very thick brogue speech.
But what inflection makes it watered down?
Because I find Robbie Coltrane's accent to be closer to the average Scottish one I have heard so far, and yes, that does make it more realistic, but much lighter than Young's Scroogean one. Scrooge was easily recognized by most people as Scottish, and if a poll were to be made, I think that his accent would be more recognizably (stereotypically) Scottish that Coltrane's one.
Again, I had never realized that Coltrane was impersonating a Scottish character in the HP franchise, until I read JKR's books in English.
Another example: Listen to Sean Connery and Scrooge back-to-back.
If he left Scotland in his early teens (as per Barks) he'd have kept that accent his whole life with only a slight watering down. I have some uncles and aunts who left The Netherlands near age 18-20, and lived in Canada for 70-75 years, and always had a very thick Dutch accent. Virtually all the people I know with a similar history share that same result, other than a couple actors or business people who worked extremely hard at getting rid of their foreign accent. People who leave one language for another after age 13-15, generally carry an accent to their grave in their new language, which only tones down slightly over a long, extended number of years.
To some extent. Of course, in situations where you are surrounded by only the domestic population, (like in Scrooge's situation), your accent is likely to 'degrade'.
I have known many, many people who have found a way to mimic Donald's cartoon speech so well that they could speak that way as their own native tongue if it became necessary.
Well, there's no doubt of that. That's how Donald cartoons are 'converted' to other languages as well. The same applies to Mickey and Goofey.
Having seen a Greek, Italian and Spanish version of Donald, I have yet to pick up any trace of the original accents, despite the entire dialogue being in foreign languages. That'd essentially destroy characters such as Scrooge, Ludwig, Jose' or Panchito.
Mind you, I could be wrong. I have yet to find any, though. That's not my main issue with Donald's speech anyway.
Furthermore, it was fully intelligible. I contend that had producers wanted to, they could have advertised and found such a person or two or three, to handle ALL of the Duck-people (character's) voices. That would have been what I'd have liked. I fully understand that most fans wouldn't require that to enjoy the series. Again, I like realism. I admit that the typical person on the street in Edinburgh doesn't have a heavy brogue. But that has no bearing on how Scrooge McDuck would have spoken when he was age 13 or 95.
From a scale of 1-10, how intelligible would you rate this attempt?
Robb_K 2012-07-09, 05:35:54
Yes, I would like ALL the Ducks to have quacky voices, and Gyro Gearloose (The big chicken) to have a squawky chicken voice.
It doesn't make sense for Donald to have a duck's voice, and the other ducks not. Most of the people I know who came from countries in which they spoke another language before the age of 13 or so, kept a heavy accent all their lives, which degraded slowly and relatively minutely over 30-4- 50 years, including my own grandparents and many uncles and aunts and many cousins. I wouldn't have expected Scrooge's strong and thick Scots brogue to have deteriorated enough to be so weak as I've heard in "Disney's Christmas Carol" and "Ducktales". Scrooge was too fixated on amassing large wealth in lands all over The Earth. He had to learn key words in many languages and was traveling much of the time. He would not devote much time to practicing diction in The Duckburg dialect (whether that be American English, Dutch, Danish, German or Italian-or whatever language a fan feels that they speak in Duckburg). People who work hard on removing an accent are generally actors or sales people (who will be speaking the local language in one place, or a "national speech" when traveling all over a single country -such as standard Hochdeutsch in Germany, "TV American" in USA, "BBC British", "CBC Canadian, Standard Dutch, etc.). Scrooge doesn't fit that category. He wouldn't bother putting energy into that activity that isn't going to help him amass wealth. Scrooge wasn't spending enough time in one place to pick up an accent the first 30-40 years after leaving The Highlands of Scotland. Even when he was roaming around the western USA and Canada, and even setting up his headquarters in Duckburg, Calisota and the rest of The West was filled with immigrants from all over The World. There was no Duckburg accent to "slide into" or affect his speech. Finally, after he was, perhaps 50 years old, and his adventure traveling slowed down enough for him to spend a lot of time in Duckburg, he was already too old for the speech around him to have a strong effect on his speech.
This kind of inconsistency of logic ruins the "integrity" and pseudo realism that could exist that would allow me to "accept" what is happening as real and not just a bunch of lines on papers being flashed across a screen. I feel the same way about researching history or geography in films. I can't stand when the "researchers of the films haven't done their jobs (especially historical films), or when an area with obvious Mediterranean vegetation is supposed to be a place in a clearly different climate zone, or I see a painting that's supposed to be an outside view, and the actors are obviously standing inside a building on a sound stage, and the nearby "trees" are made of plastic or some concoction of materials.
Yes, I would like ALL the Ducks to have quacky voices, and Gyro Gearloose (The big chicken) to have a squawky chicken voice.
It doesn't make sense for Donald to have a duck's voice, and the other ducks not. Most of the people I know who came from countries in which they spoke another language before the age of 13 or so, kept a heavy accent all their lives, which degraded slowly and relatively minutely over 30-4- 50 years, including my own grandparents and many uncles and aunts and many cousins. I wouldn't have expected Scrooge's strong and thick Scots brogue to have deteriorated enough to be so weak as I've heard in "Disney's Christmas Carol" and "Ducktales". Scrooge was too fixated on amassing large wealth in lands all over The Earth. He had to learn key words in many languages and was traveling much of the time. He would not devote much time to practicing diction in The Duckburg dialect (whether that be American English, Dutch, Danish, German or Italian-or whatever language a fan feels that they speak in Duckburg). People who work hard on removing an accent are generally actors or sales people (who will be speaking the local language in one place, or a "national speech" when traveling all over a single country -such as standard Hochdeutsch in Germany, "TV American" in USA, "BBC British", "CBC Canadian, Standard Dutch, etc.). Scrooge doesn't fit that category. He wouldn't bother putting energy into that activity that isn't going to help him amass wealth. Scrooge wasn't spending enough time in one place to pick up an accent the first 30-40 years after leaving The Highlands of Scotland. Even when he was roaming around the western USA and Canada, and even setting up his headquarters in Duckburg, Calisota and the rest of The West was filled with immigrants from all over The World. There was no Duckburg accent to "slide into" or affect his speech. Finally, after he was, perhaps 50 years old, and his adventure traveling slowed down enough for him to spend a lot of time in Duckburg, he was already too old for the speech around him to have a strong effect on his speech.
This kind of inconsistency of logic ruins the "integrity" and pseudo realism that could exist that would allow me to "accept" what is happening as real and not just a bunch of lines on papers being flashed across a screen. I feel the same way about researching history or geography in films. I can't stand when the "researchers of the films haven't done their jobs (especially historical films), or when an area with obvious Mediterranean vegetation is supposed to be a place in a clearly different climate zone, or I see a painting that's supposed to be an outside view, and the actors are obviously standing inside a building on a sound stage, and the nearby "trees" are made of plastic or some concoction of materials.
Dutch Duckfan Down Under 2012-07-09, 16:04:12
Well, Scrooge is a big businessman, so maybe he deliberately toned his accent down over the years. He doesn't want to leave his roots, but assuming he was raised in a Scottish dialect only, he might've changed it because it was just easier to understand. Real English dialects are unintelligible for Americans, or so I heard. Alternatively, he might have learned English after he left Scotland because they didn't speak English there. It seems strange, but there are people in the area where I live that only speak the local dialect, and they're only 70 years old. And we all know how poor young Scrooge was. It seems unlikely that he ever went to school and learned English there.
Besides, Barks' Scrooge doesn't have a phonetic accent either. Y'know, like th' ones they used in them early Mickey Mouse newspaper comics. Plus, and I quote:
"They speak Earth language 623X with a slight 737K accent!" (Martians, Lost Beneath the Sea, p16 panel 4)
They only heard Scrooge speak, so my guess is that 623X is American English-Calisota and 737X is British English - Glasgow accent. Only a slight accent.
I think you might be exaggerating here. First of all, there's no inconsistency of logic. Second, don't you think that researching Scrooge's past to get his accent right is going a bit too far? I thought it was just fine, and I still do. Making TV is still just work for most people, and many don't care about getting continuity or all that right. As long as they churn out 26 episodes per season, they're fine. Unfortunately, not everyone cares that much about his own work.
Plus, you can't accept Scrooge's wrong accent, despite the fact that he's a talking duck?
How do you feel about Ratatouille, then? Linguini and Remy talk in American English, but the others talk with a French accent. Is that inconsistency, and bad?
(On the same subject, I saw a bit of a Disney Channel series this week. There was this character who was supposed to be British, I think. Not really sure. He was wearing what looked like Medivalish clothing and spoke in antiquated linguistics with a strange accent. Seemed to me the Hollywood stereotype of a Brit. One problem: despite all efforts, his accent was still obviously American. Yeah. So there are worse things than getting the amount of Scottish in an accent right.)
Yeah, I have more problems with that, especially history. I hate it when two plot elements couldn't have existed at the same time.
Ah, that's just South California.
And that's just the budget. No writer can help that.
Well, Scrooge is a big businessman, so maybe he deliberately toned his accent down over the years. He doesn't want to leave his roots, but assuming he was raised in a Scottish dialect only, he might've changed it because it was just easier to understand. Real English dialects are unintelligible for Americans, or so I heard. Alternatively, he might have learned English after he left Scotland because they didn't speak English there. It seems strange, but there are people in the area where I live that only speak the local dialect, and they're only 70 years old. And we all know how poor young Scrooge was. It seems unlikely that he ever went to school and learned English there.
Besides, Barks' Scrooge doesn't have a phonetic accent either. Y'know, like th' ones they used in them early Mickey Mouse newspaper comics. Plus, and I quote:
"They speak Earth language 623X with a slight 737K accent!" (Martians, Lost Beneath the Sea, p16 panel 4)
They only heard Scrooge speak, so my guess is that 623X is American English-Calisota and 737X is British English - Glasgow accent. Only a slight accent.
Robb_K: This kind of inconsistency of logic ruins the "integrity" and pseudo realism that could exist that would allow me to "accept" what is happening as real and not just a bunch of lines on papers being flashed across a screen.
I think you might be exaggerating here. First of all, there's no inconsistency of logic. Second, don't you think that researching Scrooge's past to get his accent right is going a bit too far? I thought it was just fine, and I still do. Making TV is still just work for most people, and many don't care about getting continuity or all that right. As long as they churn out 26 episodes per season, they're fine. Unfortunately, not everyone cares that much about his own work.
Plus, you can't accept Scrooge's wrong accent, despite the fact that he's a talking duck?
How do you feel about Ratatouille, then? Linguini and Remy talk in American English, but the others talk with a French accent. Is that inconsistency, and bad?
(On the same subject, I saw a bit of a Disney Channel series this week. There was this character who was supposed to be British, I think. Not really sure. He was wearing what looked like Medivalish clothing and spoke in antiquated linguistics with a strange accent. Seemed to me the Hollywood stereotype of a Brit. One problem: despite all efforts, his accent was still obviously American. Yeah. So there are worse things than getting the amount of Scottish in an accent right.)
I feel the same way about researching history or geography in films.
Yeah, I have more problems with that, especially history. I hate it when two plot elements couldn't have existed at the same time.
I can't stand (...) when an area with obvious Mediterranean vegetation is supposed to be a place in a clearly different climate zone
or I see a painting that's supposed to be an outside view, and the actors are obviously standing inside a building on a sound stage, and the nearby "trees" are made of plastic or some concoction of materials
Robb_K 2012-07-09, 16:22:54
I saw the film "Ratatouille". The rats live in Paris. I assume that they should speak French. If some speak American English, we should have found out that they migrated there from USA.
I'm not blaming scriptwriters for paintings being used as backgrounds in films. I'm just pointing out that it ruins the "realism" for me. If I constantly notice that situations in a film are inconsistent, or unrealistic, I can't "believe" the story or "live in the film situation". It's the same with a comic book story. If the story has inconsistencies, I am constantly taken out of the action flow of the story, paying attention to details that seem "wrong". I can suspend my knowledge of reality to "believe" that "Duck People" can talk and act like humans. But if the producers make only ONE of these Duck-people speak with a quacking sound of a duck, but not the others, that only brings my attention to that inconsistency. If the writers use actual human history as a basis, but use only some parts exactly as they occurred in human history, but change other aspects, that is only confusing, and draws attention to the anomaly.
I saw the film "Ratatouille". The rats live in Paris. I assume that they should speak French. If some speak American English, we should have found out that they migrated there from USA.
I'm not blaming scriptwriters for paintings being used as backgrounds in films. I'm just pointing out that it ruins the "realism" for me. If I constantly notice that situations in a film are inconsistent, or unrealistic, I can't "believe" the story or "live in the film situation". It's the same with a comic book story. If the story has inconsistencies, I am constantly taken out of the action flow of the story, paying attention to details that seem "wrong". I can suspend my knowledge of reality to "believe" that "Duck People" can talk and act like humans. But if the producers make only ONE of these Duck-people speak with a quacking sound of a duck, but not the others, that only brings my attention to that inconsistency. If the writers use actual human history as a basis, but use only some parts exactly as they occurred in human history, but change other aspects, that is only confusing, and draws attention to the anomaly.
Baar Baar Jinx 2012-07-09, 16:54:11
Barks did envision Scrooge a Scottish accent, based on Donald's comment about his "Scotch" accent in "The Swamp of No Return".
As for Donald, I think the general approach that Disney is now taking with him is that he is hard to understand because he has a speech impediment, not because he's a duck. As has been pointed out, several cartoon shorts have him commiserating with Daisy about this (while Daisy herself has a normal human voice), but in DuckTales his unintelligible speech was a running gag. I don't know if it was ever brought up on "Quack Pack".
That said, while I view Barks' Donald and the animated Donald as two separate characters, I don't think I could have stomached DuckTales with Donald in his Barks role but with a different voice. I understand the quandry the writers were in (although from Mr. Peraza's post above, the voice had not been as much a concern as I used to think it was).
Barks did envision Scrooge a Scottish accent, based on Donald's comment about his "Scotch" accent in "The Swamp of No Return".
As for Donald, I think the general approach that Disney is now taking with him is that he is hard to understand because he has a speech impediment, not because he's a duck. As has been pointed out, several cartoon shorts have him commiserating with Daisy about this (while Daisy herself has a normal human voice), but in DuckTales his unintelligible speech was a running gag. I don't know if it was ever brought up on "Quack Pack".
That said, while I view Barks' Donald and the animated Donald as two separate characters, I don't think I could have stomached DuckTales with Donald in his Barks role but with a different voice. I understand the quandry the writers were in (although from Mr. Peraza's post above, the voice had not been as much a concern as I used to think it was).
Mike Peraza 2012-07-09, 17:10:16
Dutch Duckfan brings up quite a few good points the least of which is how the budget figured into Ducktales. MANY times I would read the new script in the morning, do about a half dozen thumbs before the crew showed up and then distribute those and my notes on the visuals. Sometimes we had to work on multiple shows on the same day. Luckily we had the benefit of a very talented staff and management that supported the show.
I have to chuckle at the dialog on here concerning Allen's Scottish accent as it is not only accepted by most Ducktales fans but Mickey's Christmas Carol followers also and I personally think he did a great job. That in itself may be the point, it is simply a personal opinion and everyone is entitled to like or dislike his or her own interpretation. We have fans of the show that don't like the comics (especially the later ones Carl didn't do) and vice versa, as well as those who can enjoy both worlds. In the end this show was intended to be enjoyed by a wide audience around the world and it accomplished that. Is it perfect? No. Could it be improved? Of course. Did we do our best at the time? I truly think we all did exactly that.
Dutch Duckfan brings up quite a few good points the least of which is how the budget figured into Ducktales. MANY times I would read the new script in the morning, do about a half dozen thumbs before the crew showed up and then distribute those and my notes on the visuals. Sometimes we had to work on multiple shows on the same day. Luckily we had the benefit of a very talented staff and management that supported the show.
I have to chuckle at the dialog on here concerning Allen's Scottish accent as it is not only accepted by most Ducktales fans but Mickey's Christmas Carol followers also and I personally think he did a great job. That in itself may be the point, it is simply a personal opinion and everyone is entitled to like or dislike his or her own interpretation. We have fans of the show that don't like the comics (especially the later ones Carl didn't do) and vice versa, as well as those who can enjoy both worlds. In the end this show was intended to be enjoyed by a wide audience around the world and it accomplished that. Is it perfect? No. Could it be improved? Of course. Did we do our best at the time? I truly think we all did exactly that.
DuckburgUSA 2012-07-09, 19:29:35
Well said, Mike! I think Alan Young's performance as Scrooge brings warmth to the character, very much in the way Bill Thompson did in "Scrooge McDuck and Money" for the 1967 featurette. Not warmth as in mushiness: Young gets inside Scrooge's skin whether McDuck is cast in a stingy or a lighthearted mood.
The key word here is "performance" - Alan Young and Bill Thompson were radio and screen actors, and they both took on Scrooge as a whole, 100% in character, not just doing a funny voice. Will Ryan's take on Scrooge in "Soccermania" was a solid effort from a talented and versatile voice actor, but his performance was a bit too cartoony (for my taste). I DO agree with another poster here, in that Will Ryan would have been the better casting choice as a more youthful Gyro Gearloose, with a design closer to Barks' model.
The entire DuckTales cast was a high watermark of voice casting! If you peruse the list of credits, everyone involved were old pros like June Foray, Hal Smith,Chuck McCann, Hamilton Camp and Howard Morris. The younger cast members were of equal caliber: Frank Welker, Terry McGovern, Russi Taylor, Tony Anselmo and many others. If you close your eyes and ONLY listen to a part of an episode, and you'll hear some real solid acting. Had Bill Scott (Bullwinkle) lived a bit longer, I have no doubt he would have been cast as a central character and 100s of incidentals!
It was also documented somewhere (I'll see if I can find it & post) that Alan Young received high praise from Carl Barks himself! They never got to meet, but Carl inscribed and sent a hardbound book of his stories for Mr. Young and they shared a phone conversation in which Barks exclaimed to the veteran actor: "You captured the character... you ARE Scrooge!"
Well said, Mike! I think Alan Young's performance as Scrooge brings warmth to the character, very much in the way Bill Thompson did in "Scrooge McDuck and Money" for the 1967 featurette. Not warmth as in mushiness: Young gets inside Scrooge's skin whether McDuck is cast in a stingy or a lighthearted mood.
The key word here is "performance" - Alan Young and Bill Thompson were radio and screen actors, and they both took on Scrooge as a whole, 100% in character, not just doing a funny voice. Will Ryan's take on Scrooge in "Soccermania" was a solid effort from a talented and versatile voice actor, but his performance was a bit too cartoony (for my taste). I DO agree with another poster here, in that Will Ryan would have been the better casting choice as a more youthful Gyro Gearloose, with a design closer to Barks' model.
The entire DuckTales cast was a high watermark of voice casting! If you peruse the list of credits, everyone involved were old pros like June Foray, Hal Smith,Chuck McCann, Hamilton Camp and Howard Morris. The younger cast members were of equal caliber: Frank Welker, Terry McGovern, Russi Taylor, Tony Anselmo and many others. If you close your eyes and ONLY listen to a part of an episode, and you'll hear some real solid acting. Had Bill Scott (Bullwinkle) lived a bit longer, I have no doubt he would have been cast as a central character and 100s of incidentals!
It was also documented somewhere (I'll see if I can find it & post) that Alan Young received high praise from Carl Barks himself! They never got to meet, but Carl inscribed and sent a hardbound book of his stories for Mr. Young and they shared a phone conversation in which Barks exclaimed to the veteran actor: "You captured the character... you ARE Scrooge!"
Dutch Duckfan Down Under 2012-07-09, 19:48:59
Well, I did make a bit of an unfair comparison. In the area where I live, there are people who speak the local dialect everywhere, whether or not the other person speaks it. These people are often over 70. Because they don't speak Dutch, I assumed they don't know any. (Which may be a bit silly.) Still, the Scrooge point sort of stands, since language standardisation is a relatively recent thing. Especially in small villages, where people can understand each other's dialect, so there's no need to speak in the country's main language. I don't know much about Victorian Scotland, but if Scrooge grew up in a small village, he may have only known a very Scottisized version of English.
Once in America, Scrooge learned real US English. Which reminds me, is there any flashback with Scrooge with an accent? Even Back to the Klondike shows Scrooge talking in "BBC English". On second thought, I don't think that's a good example. Even young Scrooge in "The Invisible Intruder" speaks English. I guess that either Barks didn't want to give Scrooge a phonetic accent, or he played it safe for the editors at Western. Personally, I think it's the first one.
Whatever it is, we can assume Scrooge never had more than a slight accent, because we've never seen/heard him with one. So Alan Young does it just fine.
I think Pixar just wanted to play it safe with their main characters. Who wants to see a movie with people with only stupid French accents? The film Hugo (which I really recommend, it's a family film for cinema buffs) just replaced French with British English, except for the words monsieur and madame. It's a bit odd, but it's consistent. I think the way Ratatouille does it is fine as well.
Yes. But the inconsistencies are usually not too jarring, I think. Except for The Flintstones, but that's not history anymore.
That sums it up perfectly. I think the accent is fine. Is it perfect? No. Could it be improved? Of course. But it does its job well.
Robb_K: I think you are confusing Scotland with Ireland regarding native Gaelic speakers that speak NO English. I don't believe there are ANY Scottish residents who speak Gaelic and that don't also speak and understand English. There are a few small pockets of people all probably above 80 years old (now) in the west of Ireland that speak only Gaelic. But as soon as they die out, that will exist no more.
Well, I did make a bit of an unfair comparison. In the area where I live, there are people who speak the local dialect everywhere, whether or not the other person speaks it. These people are often over 70. Because they don't speak Dutch, I assumed they don't know any. (Which may be a bit silly.) Still, the Scrooge point sort of stands, since language standardisation is a relatively recent thing. Especially in small villages, where people can understand each other's dialect, so there's no need to speak in the country's main language. I don't know much about Victorian Scotland, but if Scrooge grew up in a small village, he may have only known a very Scottisized version of English.
Once in America, Scrooge learned real US English. Which reminds me, is there any flashback with Scrooge with an accent? Even Back to the Klondike shows Scrooge talking in "BBC English". On second thought, I don't think that's a good example. Even young Scrooge in "The Invisible Intruder" speaks English. I guess that either Barks didn't want to give Scrooge a phonetic accent, or he played it safe for the editors at Western. Personally, I think it's the first one.
Whatever it is, we can assume Scrooge never had more than a slight accent, because we've never seen/heard him with one. So Alan Young does it just fine.
Robb_K: I saw the film "Ratatouille". The rats live in Paris. I assume that they should speak French. If some speak American English, we should have found out that they migrated there from USA.
I think Pixar just wanted to play it safe with their main characters. Who wants to see a movie with people with only stupid French accents? The film Hugo (which I really recommend, it's a family film for cinema buffs) just replaced French with British English, except for the words monsieur and madame. It's a bit odd, but it's consistent. I think the way Ratatouille does it is fine as well.
I'm not blaming scriptwriters for paintings being used as backgrounds in films. I'm just pointing out that it ruins the "realism" for me. If I constantly notice that situations in a film are inconsistent, or unrealistic, I can't "believe" the story or "live in the film situation". It's the same with a comic book story. If the story has inconsistencies, I am constantly taken out of the action flow of the story, paying attention to details that seem "wrong". I can suspend my knowledge of reality to "believe" that "Duck People" can talk and act like humans. But if the producers make only ONE of these Duck-people speak with a quacking sound of a duck, but not the others, that only brings my attention to that inconsistency. If the writers use actual human history as a basis, but use only some parts exactly as they occurred in human history, but change other aspects, that is only confusing, and draws attention to the anomaly.
Yes. But the inconsistencies are usually not too jarring, I think. Except for The Flintstones, but that's not history anymore.
Mike Peraza: I have to chuckle at the dialog on here concerning Allen's Scottish accent as it is not only accepted by most Ducktales fans but Mickey's Christmas Carol followers also and I personally think he did a great job. That in itself may be the point, it is simply a personal opinion and everyone is entitled to like or dislike his or her own interpretation. We have fans of the show that don't like the comics (especially the later ones Carl didn't do) and vice versa, as well as those who can enjoy both worlds. In the end this show was intended to be enjoyed by a wide audience around the world and it accomplished that. Is it perfect? No. Could it be improved? Of course. Did we do our best at the time? I truly think we all did exactly that.
That sums it up perfectly. I think the accent is fine. Is it perfect? No. Could it be improved? Of course. But it does its job well.
Robb_K 2012-07-09, 20:46:58
I am well aware of Limburgse taal (I even have a Donald Duck comic book printed in that language-as you well know).
The Scottish Highlanders had their own dialect spoken by many people in their region in the late 1800s. It is a version of English which still contains a lot of Anglo-Saxon-Frisian forms and vocabulary that have since been lost in standard English, due to replacement by Norman French forms and words. Although Gaelic was still spoken by a number of Highlanders in that period, we can assume that The McDucks, who owned land and a castle, were worldly enough to understand and speak English (and probably be more logical to assume that Scots English was their mother tongue). Given that Scrooge grew up speaking the Scots dialect of English, he would have been able to communicate in all the English-speaking countries to which he traveled. As I stated above, being away from The Highlands of Scotland for so many years, his heavy brogue would have flattened out (lessened in strength) to SOME degree. But, as I stated above, that is usually fairly minor in people leaving the land of their mother tongue after age 12-14.
The comic books never tried to show evidence of Scrooge's Scots dialect, other than Barks having Scrooge use "aye" for "yes" and "lad" for "son" when addressing The Nephews. I believe they would think that it might confuse the readers. I, myself, have represented accents and dialects in some of my own stories, only to have seen my editors edit the words back to standard Dutch and English. The same occurred when I used less formal and educated language spoken by supposedly ignorant villains or "stupid" characters.
I am not suggesting that the producers of Duck Tales SHOULD have had Scrooge speak with an extremely heavy brogue that would have not been intelligible to most viewers outside The UK (or possibly even all those outside Scotland). i am also NOT saying that all TV shows and films with The Ducks should have had ALL The Duck characters speaking with quacky duck-sounding voices, that would have made them unintelligible to most viewers. I am just stating that I, myself, would have liked them to be so (and they would NOT have been unintelligible to me in those situations).
I am well aware of Limburgse taal (I even have a Donald Duck comic book printed in that language-as you well know).
The Scottish Highlanders had their own dialect spoken by many people in their region in the late 1800s. It is a version of English which still contains a lot of Anglo-Saxon-Frisian forms and vocabulary that have since been lost in standard English, due to replacement by Norman French forms and words. Although Gaelic was still spoken by a number of Highlanders in that period, we can assume that The McDucks, who owned land and a castle, were worldly enough to understand and speak English (and probably be more logical to assume that Scots English was their mother tongue). Given that Scrooge grew up speaking the Scots dialect of English, he would have been able to communicate in all the English-speaking countries to which he traveled. As I stated above, being away from The Highlands of Scotland for so many years, his heavy brogue would have flattened out (lessened in strength) to SOME degree. But, as I stated above, that is usually fairly minor in people leaving the land of their mother tongue after age 12-14.
The comic books never tried to show evidence of Scrooge's Scots dialect, other than Barks having Scrooge use "aye" for "yes" and "lad" for "son" when addressing The Nephews. I believe they would think that it might confuse the readers. I, myself, have represented accents and dialects in some of my own stories, only to have seen my editors edit the words back to standard Dutch and English. The same occurred when I used less formal and educated language spoken by supposedly ignorant villains or "stupid" characters.
I am not suggesting that the producers of Duck Tales SHOULD have had Scrooge speak with an extremely heavy brogue that would have not been intelligible to most viewers outside The UK (or possibly even all those outside Scotland). i am also NOT saying that all TV shows and films with The Ducks should have had ALL The Duck characters speaking with quacky duck-sounding voices, that would have made them unintelligible to most viewers. I am just stating that I, myself, would have liked them to be so (and they would NOT have been unintelligible to me in those situations).
Mike Peraza 2012-07-10, 07:13:58
Yes Carl did enjoy the first season of DuckTales. I had the honor of meeting him through a mutual "Duck man" by the name of Jack Hannah who was a close friend and the original head of the Disney Program at Cal Arts. Also had a chance to work with Ducky Nash on a project for the parks and "Christmas Carol." I was "in-ducked" into their little group which was a treat. Jack and Carl worked together on the Duck shorts in their early days so they were a quack pack from back when. Ducky was a real gentleman and he had this unique ventriloquist dummy of Donald he would bring into my room and do a bit of business with that was priceless. Really miss all those guys. Too often you don't realize how lucky you are to be around talent like that until they're gone.
Sorry I didn't get back Street, I've been busy painting two illustrations for projects due tomorrow that I finished about an hour ago. Yes I will do a piece on behind the scenes of Talespin sometime when I get a chance, thanks for asking.
Yes Carl did enjoy the first season of DuckTales. I had the honor of meeting him through a mutual "Duck man" by the name of Jack Hannah who was a close friend and the original head of the Disney Program at Cal Arts. Also had a chance to work with Ducky Nash on a project for the parks and "Christmas Carol." I was "in-ducked" into their little group which was a treat. Jack and Carl worked together on the Duck shorts in their early days so they were a quack pack from back when. Ducky was a real gentleman and he had this unique ventriloquist dummy of Donald he would bring into my room and do a bit of business with that was priceless. Really miss all those guys. Too often you don't realize how lucky you are to be around talent like that until they're gone.
Sorry I didn't get back Street, I've been busy painting two illustrations for projects due tomorrow that I finished about an hour ago. Yes I will do a piece on behind the scenes of Talespin sometime when I get a chance, thanks for asking.
kimba_1962 2012-07-10, 15:01:12
And long before that film, we got "Gay Purr-ee," with Judy Garland, Paul Frees, Red Buttons, and Robert Goulet, among others, all providing voices... none of which could remotely be described as "Gallic-sounding." It's actually kind of strange... UPA made such an effort to get the atmosphere and backgrounds just right in "Gay Purr-ee," yet virtually everyone sounds conventionally American.
In this respect, I regard Alan Young's accent for Scrooge as being a perfectly acceptable middle ground... it sounds Scottish, yet is readily understandable even to those unfamiliar with heavier Scottish accents.
And if Carl signed off on it, well...
Robb_K: I saw the film "Ratatouille". The rats live in Paris. I assume that they should speak French. If some speak American English, we should have found out that they migrated there from USA.
And long before that film, we got "Gay Purr-ee," with Judy Garland, Paul Frees, Red Buttons, and Robert Goulet, among others, all providing voices... none of which could remotely be described as "Gallic-sounding." It's actually kind of strange... UPA made such an effort to get the atmosphere and backgrounds just right in "Gay Purr-ee," yet virtually everyone sounds conventionally American.
In this respect, I regard Alan Young's accent for Scrooge as being a perfectly acceptable middle ground... it sounds Scottish, yet is readily understandable even to those unfamiliar with heavier Scottish accents.
DuckburgUSA: It was also documented somewhere (I'll see if I can find it & post) that Alan Young received high praise from Carl Barks himself! They never got to meet, but Carl inscribed and sent a hardbound book of his stories for Mr. Young and they shared a phone conversation in which Barks exclaimed to the veteran actor: "You captured the character... you ARE Scrooge!"
And if Carl signed off on it, well...
steet 2012-07-10, 18:42:42
Ok, sorry to bother, and that's awesome, looking forward to it! 
Mike Peraza: Sorry I didn't get back Street, I've been busy painting two illustrations for projects due tomorrow that I finished about an hour ago. Yes I will do a piece on behind the scenes of Talespin sometime when I get a chance, thanks for asking.
Gyro Gearloose 2012-07-10, 21:11:34
As both a big Barks fan and a big Ducktales fan, I'm really, REALLY happy to hear that Barks so heartily approved of Young's portrayal of Scrooge. Young could make the old duck seem avuncular, crabby, manic, crafty, and dreamily eccentric as the case required; even when the show's writing wasn't at its best, his vocal characterization breathed additional life into the proceedings. And, while it's sometimes hard to tell whether Robb is being tongue-in-cheek or not, I can't see how his Scottish accent could be called weak, unconvincing, or least of all unrecognizable--much like Scrooge himself, Young came to the US as a young man and spent his formative years in Scotland. He did a fine job training the accent out for his earlier screen roles, but even in shows like Mister Ed (I've seen many episodes of that show), his brogue comes through occasionally.
(By the way, I also like Foreign Correspondent--my favorite Hitchcock picture. I wrote a rejected Mickey story for Egmont more or less inspired by the movie, complete with a windmill sequence. Still, I can understand why a Dutchman could get pulled out of the picture by the fake accents--although no Hollywood studio, past or present, has the money to make every film on location and cast 100% regionally correct actors in the bit roles. Movies are make-believe, after all).
As both a big Barks fan and a big Ducktales fan, I'm really, REALLY happy to hear that Barks so heartily approved of Young's portrayal of Scrooge. Young could make the old duck seem avuncular, crabby, manic, crafty, and dreamily eccentric as the case required; even when the show's writing wasn't at its best, his vocal characterization breathed additional life into the proceedings. And, while it's sometimes hard to tell whether Robb is being tongue-in-cheek or not, I can't see how his Scottish accent could be called weak, unconvincing, or least of all unrecognizable--much like Scrooge himself, Young came to the US as a young man and spent his formative years in Scotland. He did a fine job training the accent out for his earlier screen roles, but even in shows like Mister Ed (I've seen many episodes of that show), his brogue comes through occasionally.
(By the way, I also like Foreign Correspondent--my favorite Hitchcock picture. I wrote a rejected Mickey story for Egmont more or less inspired by the movie, complete with a windmill sequence. Still, I can understand why a Dutchman could get pulled out of the picture by the fake accents--although no Hollywood studio, past or present, has the money to make every film on location and cast 100% regionally correct actors in the bit roles. Movies are make-believe, after all).
Robb_K 2012-07-11, 07:43:10
Had they shot all the scenes in The Netherlands, they'd have been interrupted by the German troops overunning the country, as the film was shot in spring and early summer of 1940. Nevertheless, I'm sure that if they had tried, they could have found a 10 year old Dutch immigrant in L.A. to say a couple lines, and they could have found a Dutch immigrant who also was a Hollywood actor to play the diplomat. Otherwise, they should have had the German man who played the diplomat listen to a native Dutchman speak and have him mimic the accent. It would have taken only a few hours of his time. They should have had the girl speak in English, rather than her butchering the Dutch so badly that it was clear she had never heard a Dutch word spoken in her life before the shooting. It's little things like that that can ruin a film.
Another example of low-cost keeping story credibility in historical films is having historians on staff to assure that no glaring errors occur. Yet, they often do (such as horses appearing as military cavalry animals and beasts of burden in The Fertile crescent before 1400 B.C.E. and camels used as pack animals and transportation in Egypt before 900 B.C.E., and the like, or seeing penguins in The Arctic in cartoons, or polar bears in The Antarctic.
Yes, some of what I wrote above was "with tongue in cheek", but there is a little truth to every joke.
Gyro Gearloose: (By the way, I also like Foreign Correspondent--my favorite Hitchcock picture. I wrote a rejected Mickey story for Egmont more or less inspired by the movie, complete with a windmill sequence. Still, I can understand why a Dutchman could get pulled out of the picture by the fake accents--although no Hollywood studio, past or present, has the money to make every film on location and cast 100% regionally correct actors in the bit roles. Movies are make-believe, after all).
Another example of low-cost keeping story credibility in historical films is having historians on staff to assure that no glaring errors occur. Yet, they often do (such as horses appearing as military cavalry animals and beasts of burden in The Fertile crescent before 1400 B.C.E. and camels used as pack animals and transportation in Egypt before 900 B.C.E., and the like, or seeing penguins in The Arctic in cartoons, or polar bears in The Antarctic.
Yes, some of what I wrote above was "with tongue in cheek", but there is a little truth to every joke.
MustangRockstar 2012-07-16, 05:11:54
I never really had a problem with the voices. I guess I always assumed that Donald himself had a bit of a speech impediment, as evidenced by cartoons where other Ducks speak (Daisy, Ludwig, etc.)
For me, it makes Donald a stronger, more unique character.
As for Scrooge's accent, I always assumed it was a little muted from years of living abroad. If we go with the assertion that he came to America as a young man to sick his fortune, and we take into account that immigrants of the time often tried very hard to "Americanize" themselves, I thought it fit pretty well.
My only real beef with Ducktales was when they messed with the formula in seasons 2 and 3. It seemed like every great animated series in the 80s did that, and almost all of them where none the better for the decision.
I never really had a problem with the voices. I guess I always assumed that Donald himself had a bit of a speech impediment, as evidenced by cartoons where other Ducks speak (Daisy, Ludwig, etc.)
For me, it makes Donald a stronger, more unique character.
As for Scrooge's accent, I always assumed it was a little muted from years of living abroad. If we go with the assertion that he came to America as a young man to sick his fortune, and we take into account that immigrants of the time often tried very hard to "Americanize" themselves, I thought it fit pretty well.
My only real beef with Ducktales was when they messed with the formula in seasons 2 and 3. It seemed like every great animated series in the 80s did that, and almost all of them where none the better for the decision.
Furienna 2012-07-25, 21:26:50
And here, I must totally disagree with you. I prefer the last season so much. Fenton Crackshell is my favorite character of this show, and it was this season, that I grew up with as a little girl, so I might be a bit biased. I've only seen a half dozen or so out of the first 65 episodes, and they just don't click with me. They feel way too childish.
MustangRockstar: My only real beef with Ducktales was when they messed with the formula in seasons 2 and 3. It seemed like every great animated series in the 80s did that, and almost all of them where none the better for the decision.
And here, I must totally disagree with you. I prefer the last season so much. Fenton Crackshell is my favorite character of this show, and it was this season, that I grew up with as a little girl, so I might be a bit biased. I've only seen a half dozen or so out of the first 65 episodes, and they just don't click with me. They feel way too childish.
