Hello. I'm curious about finding more McDuck ancestors than those that Taliaferro, Barks, and Rosa introduced. Below is a timeline of sorts of the ancestors I'm currently aware of. Red text indicates that the information is not based on any actual source, but just pure guesswork. Since a generation is around 25 years, the unknown spots have been separated by roughly that amount of time.
The objective here is pretty much to find ancestor-characters from stories which can slot into the appropriate empty portraits to fill out and complete the genealogy. Do you know of any great-great [...] grandfathers of Scrooge not present in the timeline?
The sketchy black-and-white ducks are from Rosa's The History of the Clan McDuck-sketches.
Friar Juicy and Sir Smokt are from Barks' painting Dubious Doings at Dismal Downs.
The searching duck (1135-?) is from Rosa's The Last of the Clan McDuck. As is the (1460-?) duck. Note that both of these are surrounded by siblings and/or cousins and may not be the father to the next one in line.
Sir Simon is from Rosa's A Letter From Home or The Castle's Other Secret.
The (1485)-duck is from a Taliaferro-strip. The flintlock musket he has just invented, was invented around 1550. Being that this duck appears to be as old as Scrooge at this time, I placed him here - born around 75 years before his inventing.
The (1580)-duck is from the same Taliaferro-strip as the last guy. The only time a McDuck had been to North America at this point in time was when Malcolm McDuck traveled there in 1579. I therefore imagine that this native American duck was born around 1580. However, Malcolm would have been 50 at this point, meaning that there is time for one whole generation in-between the two. Malcolm could have brought his child (born around 1555) with him to America in order to reproduce at arrival.
I can't find the story which features the Earl of Asketty. The Earl was powerful enough to have his own face on a coin in 1700. But according to Rosa's History-sketches, the clan McDuck didn't have enough money to buy Castle McDuck back in 1707. Locksley stole from the rich, which is weird if his son is a rich Earl... I don't know what to do about that. Maybe it makes more sense to switch the two of them? As in, the Earl is Locksley's father instead. I don't know.
This guy seems to be a perfect candidate for Malcolm's son, born around 1555. The French wiki to suggests this too. That being said, I haven't read the story, so I don't know. All my info on the guy comes from this wiki-article.
Post by TheMidgetMoose on Jan 21, 2020 21:00:38 GMT
Glad you opened this thread! Personally, I had always figured that Sir Smokt was Slye's father without a generation between them, but Fayodor seems like a good fit for the man in between them, though I know little about him.
I haven't read the story and could very well be wrong, but I think the Earl of Asketty might have debuted in this story, Zio Paperone e il decreto reale. Maybe someone who has read the story can confirm one way or another. Anyways, I had assumed that the Earl was a relative of the McDucks by marriage, with his daughter or granddaughter marrying into the McDuck Clan. Maybe his debut story did state he was a McDuck by birth, but I had always assumed otherwise.
You probably already know this, but I think there are other proposed names for Scrooge's great-grandfather besides just Potluck. I know of at least one. According to this article, Scrooge's great-grandfather was Pampero "The Old Wizard" McDuck, a carpenter in the American West in 1848, in Paperino e i chiodi di mago Pampero, though it's worth noting that a French INDUCKS description for the story describes him as Scrooge's granduncle. I don't know if this was the relationship in the original Italian or in a French translation.
In my personal McDuck family tree, I have a certain Richman McDuck as the father of Locksley. He is mentioned in the article I linked earlier (link again), where the author of the article says, "Richman McDuck fooled the ancestors of the Beagle Boys in 1713 in “The great exciting gold coup” (AA 2-3/1979)." Months ago, I was able to find the story in question on INDUCKS and take a screenshot of what I assume is Richman McDuck from the scans on INDUCKS. Here is that screenshot of what I believe is Richman, presumably in 1713, but I don't know for sure as I haven't read the relevant story.
Unfortunately, I forgot to bookmark the INDUCKS entry for the story in which he appears, and I can't seem to find it again. Does this fellow and the description from the article ring a bell with anyone? Does anyone have the INDUCKS link to his story? Anyways he seems to already be an old man by the time in which the image I have occurs, which is presumably 1713. I estimated his birth at 1660, which would make him 53 in 1713, but I guess he could have been as early as the 1720's, which works with your timeline, I think.
For Richman's father, I had Danblane McDuck from The Flying Scot. He is said to be Scrooge's great-great-great-granduncle in the English translation, I believe, but he is apparently Scrooge's tris-tris-trisavolo in the original Italian. drakeborough once said in a thread that this might mean that he is Scrooge's great-great-great-great-great-great-grandfather. On your tree, this would make Locksley's father, if I'm counting right. Anyways, Danblane was an active pirate from 1636 to 1666 if the info from the Scrooge McDuck Wiki is correct, so he was probably born in the early 1600's. I estimated his birth to have occurred in 1617, but that's based on no information other than what I have already given you. His picture is below.
That's all I have for now. I'll be sure to post here when I think of more.
No matter what I say or do, know that Jesus loves you.
Post by TheMidgetMoose on Jan 21, 2020 21:43:02 GMT
Alright, I've got more. First of all, let me point out that I have never read Storia e gloria della dinastia dei paperi, though I would love to if there was ever an English version. Anyways, using secondhand sources like this page about the Clan McDuck and PaperPedia, I think I may be able to at least tell enough that you get a rough idea of the chronological placement of some of the characters from Storia e gloria.
First of all, there's Paperon McPaperon (the non-Paperpedia page refers to him as "Drago McDuck"). This man was alive and aged in 1392, when he moved his family from Scotland to Spain. Paperpedia says that Paul McPaperin was his nephew, while the other page claims that "Don McDuck" was his son.
One hundred years later in 1492, Paperon y Paperonios was a rich old man who moved with his family from Spain to the New World on Christopher Columbus' voyage. His nephew in 1492 was Don Paperin de la Scalogna. Whoever wrote the non-Paperpedia page theorized that Paperin de la Scalogna was the son of Sir Simon McDuck, with Paperon y Papronios being Simon's brother.
Then in the late 1600's, there's Paperion Paperonies and his nephews. They live in around the Gulf of Mexico, I think.
As far as I know, the next ancestors in Storia e Gloria are versions of Scrooge's grandfather and father. I imagine you aren't as interested in those, but you can read about them on PaperPedia if you are.
There are several other ancestors mentioned on the non-Paperpedia site I linked to, but I don't where they all came from and I don't know how much of what is stated on that site is fact and how much is theory.
No matter what I say or do, know that Jesus loves you.
Post by Scrooge MacDuck on Jan 21, 2020 22:17:09 GMT
More thoughts later, but two things jump out to me:
• yes, the "American ancestor of Scrooge" whose page on the French Wiki you linked does fit as Malcolm's son, begat in Calisota after Malcolm was stranded in Fort Duckburg.
• are you sure FRIAR Juicy McDuck should be a direct ancestor of Scrooge, rather than a celibate g-g-g-g-g-…great-uncle? I mean, *think* about it.
• are you sure FRIAR Juicy McDuck should be a direct ancestor of Scrooge, rather than a celibate g-g-g-g-g-…great-uncle? I mean, *think* about it.
I did think about it, and came to the conclusion that one could probably become a friar even after the age of 21. I do take your point, though. Earlier, I had Juicy as a brother of Sir Eider, but I prefer it the way it is now. Until we find a suitable replacement, I'll keep Juicy as Smokt's father.
Glad you opened this thread! Personally, I had always figured that Sir Smokt was Slye's father without a generation between them, but Fayodor seems like a good fit for the man in between them, though I know little about him.
I originally had Slye as Smokt's son too, but then I realized that Slye would have been in his late 50's or 60's by the time he is spying on the Angles. I thought that was a bit too old.
The Earl being related by marriage makes sense! I think I'll remove him from the timeline in my next update!
You are correct in me being aware of the Ande-Aner/Duck-Ancestors article. That's where I found the Earl and Potluck in the first place. Since there is potential that the Old Wizard's great-grandfatherhood is simply a mistranslation, I'll keep Potluck for that position!
I'd love to have a look at that family tree of yours, if you'd be willing of course! This stuff is interesting to me! ^^ Using information from the Ande-Aner article, I found the Richman-story. It's D 4517. And I'm 99% sure that the duck in your image is indeed Richman!
I estimated his birth at 1660, which would make him 53 in 1713, but I guess he could have been as early as the 1720's, which works with your timeline, I think.
By this I assume you mean that he could have been born as early as the 1620's, not 1720's, making him around 90 in the story. However, my timeline has a spot for someone born around 1630, which would be closer to your 1660-date! I'll consider adding Richman!
I'm familiar with Danblane, but as you mentioned, I've always thought he was a g-g-g-g-granduncle, which is why I didn't include him. I've just read through The Flying Scot, and Scrooge says the Danblane is his "direct ancestor". Then a caption box calls him Scrooge's "great-great-great-uncle on his father's side". This would put him as a brother of Potcrack in my timeline, generation-wise. However, I have Potcrack as being born around 1740, while Danblane mentions that he left Glasgow around 1677, which is a pretty big gap for two brothers. I guess that if we prioritize the time frame rather than the number of "greats" (which might as well be a mistranslation), he could slot into the 1655-generation, where I currently have Locksley. I find it odd that the Scrooge wiki says he was active during 1636 - 1666, as the English version never mentions that. Maybe the information differs from the original version? The fact that the Italian Paperpedia agrees with the 1636 - 1666 dates seems to indicate some translation-screw ups, given that the story was Italian in it's original version. I'm considering adding Danblane in the (1605-?)-slot.
Alright, I've got more. First of all, let me point out that I have never read Storia e gloria della dinastia dei paperi, though I would love to if there was ever an English version. Anyways, using secondhand sources like this page about the Clan McDuck and PaperPedia, I think I may be able to at least tell enough that you get a rough idea of the chronological placement of some of the characters from Storia e gloria.
First of all, there's Paperon McPaperon (the non-Paperpedia page refers to him as "Drago McDuck"). This man was alive and aged in 1392, when he moved his family from Scotland to Spain. Paperpedia says that Paul McPaperin was his nephew, while the other page claims that "Don McDuck" was his son.
I agree that an English version of Storia e Gloria would be a fascinating read, indeed! Although, as you say, I prioritize Rosa's version of the McDuck ancestors.
I read about Paperon McPaperon on Paperpedia, but I hesitated to put him on the timeline since he moved to Spain. That suggests that he's probably not a g-g-grandfather, but rather a g-g-granduncle to Scrooge.
Here's an update. I added Fayodor, Malcolm's son, Danblane, and Richman. I removed the Earl, and realized that Seafoam's father should be Locksley, so ignore what I said about Richman's age earlier.
I like that the gaps are getting smaller, but the 1200s and 1300s are still very empty.
Glad you opened this thread! Personally, I had always figured that Sir Smokt was Slye's father without a generation between them, but Fayodor seems like a good fit for the man in between them, though I know little about him.
I originally had Slye as Smokt's son too, but then I realized that Slye would have been in his late 50's or 60's by the time he is spying on the Angles. I thought that was a bit too old.
The Earl being related by marriage makes sense! I think I'll remove him from the timeline in my next update!
You are correct in me being aware of the Ande-Aner/Duck-Ancestors article. That's where I found the Earl and Potluck in the first place. Since there is potential that the Old Wizard's great-grandfatherhood is simply a mistranslation, I'll keep Potluck for that position!
I'd love to have a look at that family tree of yours, if you'd be willing of course! This stuff is interesting to me! ^^ Using information from the Ande-Aner article, I found the Richman-story. It's D 4517. And I'm 99% sure that the duck in your image is indeed Richman!
I estimated his birth at 1660, which would make him 53 in 1713, but I guess he could have been as early as the 1720's, which works with your timeline, I think.
By this I assume you mean that he could have been born as early as the 1620's, not 1720's, making him around 90 in the story. However, my timeline has a spot for someone born around 1630, which would be closer to your 1660-date! I'll consider adding Richman!
I'm familiar with Danblane, but as you mentioned, I've always thought he was a g-g-g-g-granduncle, which is why I didn't include him. I've just read through The Flying Scot, and Scrooge says the Danblane is his "direct ancestor". Then a caption box calls him Scrooge's "great-great-great-uncle on his father's side". This would put him as a brother of Potcrack in my timeline, generation-wise. However, I have Potcrack as being born around 1740, while Danblane mentions that he left Glasgow around 1677, which is a pretty big gap for two brothers. I guess that if we prioritize the time frame rather than the number of "greats" (which might as well be a mistranslation), he could slot into the 1655-generation, where I currently have Locksley. I find it odd that the Scrooge wiki says he was active during 1636 - 1666, as the English version never mentions that. Maybe the information differs from the original version? The fact that the Italian Paperpedia agrees with the 1636 - 1666 dates seems to indicate some translation-screw ups, given that the story was Italian in it's original version. I'm considering adding Danblane in the (1605-?)-slot.
Thanks for finding the Richman story. Here's the INDUCKS link to make it even easier for others to find: link
I did indeed mean the 1620's could have been when Richman was born. Thanks for pointing that mistake out.
Having read neither the English translation nor the original version of The Flying Scot, I really can't comment on the dates. However I do feel like it's worth pointing out that 1636 is 321 years before 1957, when The Flying Scot was initially released, while 1677 is 321 years from 1998, when the English translation was released as per INDUCKS. I would suspect, though I can't state definitively, that the English translation moved the dates forward so that the story could take place in 1998 without changing the gap of time between Danblane's adventures and the "present-day".
On the topic of my tree, I'd rather not release the whole thing as of now. It's still a work in progress and contains a variety of headcanons and theories that I'm either not 100% certain I really believe in or have changed my mind on but have yet to change the tree. I might just make a tree with just the McDuck line and present that when I get the time to, though it may not be worth it as there's not really much there that isn't already in your tree. The only interesting thing there is my weird hypothesis that Potcrack and Seafoam were brothers and that Potcrack was the biological father of Scrooge's great-grandfather through an affair with Seafoam's wife, but I'm re-evaluating that hypothesis anyway.
No matter what I say or do, know that Jesus loves you.
Having read neither the English translation nor the original version of The Flying Scot, I really can't comment on the dates. However I do feel like it's worth pointing out that 1636 is 321 years before 1957, when The Flying Scot was initially released, while 1677 is 321 years from 1998, when the English translation was released as per INDUCKS. I would suspect, though I can't state definitively, that the English translation moved the dates forward so that the story could take place in 1998 without changing the gap of time between Danblane's adventures and the "present-day".
On the topic of my tree, I'd rather not release the whole thing as of now. It's still a work in progress and contains a variety of headcanons and theories that I'm either not 100% certain I really believe in or have changed my mind on but have yet to change the tree. I might just make a tree with just the McDuck line and present that when I get the time to, though it may not be worth it as there's not really much there that isn't already in your tree. The only interesting thing there is my weird hypothesis that Potcrack and Seafoam were brothers and that Potcrack was the biological father of Scrooge's great-grandfather through an affair with Seafoam's wife, but I'm re-evaluating that hypothesis anyway.
Your point on The Flying Scot is very reasonable! I believe that's it!
Fair enough. If you don't feel ready to post it, I certainly won't push you! I am curious though, why the affair business? I mean, why make it more complicated than it needs to be? Is that based on something in any story? Also, this would push Seafoam down (or up, depending on how one sees it) one generation in relation to Scrooge. I can only see cons with this theory; no pros. The only reason for this that I can see would be if there were another character you'd want to slot in as Scrooge's great-great-grandfather (a position that Seafoam otherwise would hold). I hope I'm not coming off as criticizing your theory too hard; I'm simply trying to understand.
I did some quick research on Storia e Gloria, and it seems that it mostly features ancestors living in Egypt, Rome, and Spain. Basically, they move around a lot. Since we know that the McDucks have been Scottish for centuries, I'm going to assume that Storia features distant cousins that Scrooge isn't directly descended from. I don't know if that theory is contradicted in the story itself, but most of the "main" McDuck-line not living in Scotland would contradict both Barks and Rosa, which is the base that I'm working from here, I guess.
I've never heard of that second story you're referring to and INDUCKS unfortunately doesn't have much info. I'd love to know more!
I did some quick research on Storia e Gloria, and it seems that it mostly features ancestors living in Egypt, Rome, and Spain. Basically, they move around a lot. Since we know that the McDucks have been Scottish for centuries, I'm going to assume that Storia features distant cousins that Scrooge isn't directly descended from. I don't know if that theory is contradicted in the story itself, but most of the "main" McDuck-line not living in Scotland would contradict both Barks and Rosa, which is the base that I'm working from here, I guess.
The Egyptian McDuck is the same McDuck who later moves to Rome and eventually finds himself in Scotland, where he settles down and founds the Clan McDuck. (I like the idea that Mac Duich is a corruption of Mac Dux, "son of the Dux", Dux being the Roman name for a leader.) You then have, yes, branches of the family who travel about the world in much the same way as Scrooge, but still think of themselves as a Scottish family, I believe.