So, I will soon see whether they were given individual names in the German printing. Anybody who read this story in any language: were the kids given names in your version? If not, I will have to come up with fan names for them and post that on the "fan names" thread! Let's see...what goes well with "Umble"?
I always have trouble with Scrooge's Italian butler. His original name is Battista, which is how he's known in most of (Romance) Europe. But in Germanic countries, Baptist isn't a common given name, and they've had to get creative. The Dutch name is Bertus, which is unusual enough to be memorable and retains that initial B. It was probably taken from the Danish Albert, which I find awfully generic. And there's the English Quackmore, which is just awful. It reminds me of Duckworth, another dogface butler with a ducky name. It's also overly formal -- I know he's supposed to be a butler, but he's not all that stuck-up! He's called Baptiste in my headcanon, which is from the French, and a name you might hear in an English context. Stephen Colbert's musical director is called Jon Batiste, but I always heard that as Jean-Baptiste, and that's stuck with me.
Beyond names, I've got to credit the Italians for their seemingly limitless capacity for cramming -Paper- into every duck-related name. It's hard to translate, that one.
I totally agree that "Quackmore" is All Wrong. I also call him Baptiste in my headcanon.
"Bert" by itself is too informal, "Albert" is, I agree, too generic (like "James"--the character's name in Norwegian printings). If we wanted an English name related to "Bertus/Albert" we could go for "Bertram"--though that is Joe Torcivia's continuing in-joke!
One question, when thinking about an English name for this character, is whether we're thinking of it as a first name or a last name. By which name would a butler be called? By last name, I think. (But my friends don't have butlers!) Whoever unfortunately thought up the name "Quackmore" was thinking last name, clearly. The generic "James" for a male employee/servant in English is used for a chauffeur, not a butler. "Albert" is definitely a first name, while "Bertram" and "Baptiste" could be first or last names.
"Jeeves" was the cultists' generic name for a butler in 19th and early 20th Century English language and literary tradition. I assume that was his last (family) name. Barks never had Scrooge have a butler used in enough panels to give him a name. Jack Bradbury had Scrooge living in a mansion in several stories, and gave him the same butler in, at least, a few of them. I believe he called him "Jeeves" in one, or two of them, and "Jeems" in one. So, I thought the "Foreign" Disney editors should have used "Jeeves".
So, I will soon see whether they were given individual names in the German printing. Anybody who read this story in any language: were the kids given names in your version? If not, I will have to come up with fan names for them and post that on the "fan names" thread! Let's see...what goes well with "Umble"?
I read the German version when it came out (still have it stored in Munich-but I'm stuck in quarantine in L.A.-so can't check). I'm sure The Germans did not give those kids individual names, - otherwise I would remember them having done so. I don't remember reading that. I always notice such things.
I totally agree that "Quackmore" is All Wrong. I also call him Baptiste in my headcanon.
"Bert" by itself is too informal, "Albert" is, I agree, too generic (like "James"--the character's name in Norwegian printings). If we wanted an English name related to "Bertus/Albert" we could go for "Bertram"--though that is Joe Torcivia's continuing in-joke!
One question, when thinking about an English name for this character, is whether we're thinking of it as a first name or a last name. By which name would a butler be called? By last name, I think. (But my friends don't have butlers!) Whoever unfortunately thought up the name "Quackmore" was thinking last name, clearly. The generic "James" for a male employee/servant in English is used for a chauffeur, not a butler. "Albert" is definitely a first name, while "Bertram" and "Baptiste" could be first or last names.
"Jeeves" was the cultists' generic name for a butler in 19th and early 20th Century English language and literary tradition. I assume that was his last (family) name. Barks never had Scrooge have a butler used in enough panels to give him a name. Jack Bradbury had Scrooge living in a mansion in several stories, and gave him the same butler in, at least, a few of them. I believe he called him "Jeeves" in one, or two of them, and "Jeems" in one. So, I thought the "Foreign" Disney editors should have used "Jeeves".
Wikipedia backs up my own hitherto-unresearched assumption, that "Jeeves" as the generic name for a butler comes from P.G. Wodehouse's Bertie Wooster's valet. Wikipedia says that Wodehouse got the name "Jeeves" from a cricketer, Percy Jeeves, who was killed at the Battle of the Somme "less than a year after the appearance of the Wodehouse character who would make his name a household word."
In our Dutch version, Widow Umble's children were only called "de kinderen van Weduwe Schraal", meaning, "the children of Widow Meagre" or "Widow Impoverished". They weren't given individual names.
In the Danish version, the children are NOT given individual names. They are only called "De fattige børn" - meaning "The Poor children". That is worse than the German and Dutch translations, which are right-on-the-mark to call them "Widow Umble's kids". There is no mention of Barks' characters Widow Umble and her children. At least the Dutch, German, and Danish name for "Shacktown" is shown on the sign. Although, I think The Danish name for Shacktown being "Pennyless" or "Moneyless" is a silly name for it.
I always have trouble with Scrooge's Italian butler. His original name is Battista, which is how he's known in most of (Romance) Europe. But in Germanic countries, Baptist isn't a common given name, and they've had to get creative. The Dutch name is Bertus, which is unusual enough to be memorable and retains that initial B. It was probably taken from the Danish Albert, which I find awfully generic. And there's the English Quackmore, which is just awful. It reminds me of Duckworth, another dogface butler with a ducky name. It's also overly formal -- I know he's supposed to be a butler, but he's not all that stuck-up! He's called Baptiste in my headcanon, which is from the French, and a name you might hear in an English context. Stephen Colbert's musical director is called Jon Batiste, but I always heard that as Jean-Baptiste, and that's stuck with me.
Beyond names, I've got to credit the Italians for their seemingly limitless capacity for cramming -Paper- into every duck-related name. It's hard to translate, that one.
I totally agree that "Quackmore" is All Wrong. I also call him Baptiste in my headcanon.
"Bert" by itself is too informal, "Albert" is, I agree, too generic (like "James"--the character's name in Norwegian printings). If we wanted an English name related to "Bertus/Albert" we could go for "Bertram"--though that is Joe Torcivia's continuing in-joke!
One question, when thinking about an English name for this character, is whether we're thinking of it as a first name or a last name. By which name would a butler be called? By last name, I think. (But my friends don't have butlers!) Whoever unfortunately thought up the name "Quackmore" was thinking last name, clearly. The generic "James" for a male employee/servant in English is used for a chauffeur, not a butler. "Albert" is definitely a first name, while "Bertram" and "Baptiste" could be first or last names.
I like Bertram. Bertrand could be an alternative, I wouldn't mind a character named after Mr. Russell. Shame Baptist is such a descriptive name, you couldn't get away with it!
The first/last name question is an interesting one. Given how close the Italian characters seem to be with one another, a first-name basis seems fitting. I'd say that in general, employers call their butlers by their first names? I can't find any other name for Jeeves (from ... and Wooster). In my developing Scrooge history headcanon, his peers addressed him as "McDuck" at the time he was making his fortune. I've always liked the idea of addressing friends by their last name, but I'm not sure if it'd right for the period (maybe more Victorian than Edwardian?). In my headcanon, Scrooge didn't make it all on his own -- he had a network of close associates beyond the usual Quackfaster and Clerkly. Like I read in a GeoX post the other day: Scrooge may be all about the money, but he's not all all about the money.
Ms Quackfaster is called Juffrouw Eugenia in Dutch. I like it, it has character. I also like characters being called [title] [first name], no last name needed. Juffrouw is Dutch for Ms or Madam.
Another random favorite: Kranz, Indiana Goof's rival. It's got all the right consonants.
I totally agree that "Quackmore" is All Wrong. I also call him Baptiste in my headcanon.
"Bert" by itself is too informal, "Albert" is, I agree, too generic (like "James"--the character's name in Norwegian printings). If we wanted an English name related to "Bertus/Albert" we could go for "Bertram"--though that is Joe Torcivia's continuing in-joke!
One question, when thinking about an English name for this character, is whether we're thinking of it as a first name or a last name. By which name would a butler be called? By last name, I think. (But my friends don't have butlers!) Whoever unfortunately thought up the name "Quackmore" was thinking last name, clearly. The generic "James" for a male employee/servant in English is used for a chauffeur, not a butler. "Albert" is definitely a first name, while "Bertram" and "Baptiste" could be first or last names.
"Jeeves" was the cultists' generic name for a butler in 19th and early 20th Century English language and literary tradition. I assume that was his last (family) name. Barks never had Scrooge have a butler used in enough panels to give him a name. Jack Bradbury had Scrooge living in a mansion in several stories, and gave him the same butler in, at least, a few of them. I believe he called him "Jeeves" in one, or two of them, and "Jeems" in one. So, I thought the "Foreign" Disney editors should have used "Jeeves".
There's a James and an Edgerton in Christmas on Bear Mountain. I believe that's the only Barks story to feature Scrooge's servants. But then, he doesn't live in his mansion for long.
I totally agree that "Quackmore" is All Wrong. I also call him Baptiste in my headcanon.
"Bert" by itself is too informal, "Albert" is, I agree, too generic (like "James"--the character's name in Norwegian printings). If we wanted an English name related to "Bertus/Albert" we could go for "Bertram"--though that is Joe Torcivia's continuing in-joke!
One question, when thinking about an English name for this character, is whether we're thinking of it as a first name or a last name. By which name would a butler be called? By last name, I think. (But my friends don't have butlers!) Whoever unfortunately thought up the name "Quackmore" was thinking last name, clearly. The generic "James" for a male employee/servant in English is used for a chauffeur, not a butler. "Albert" is definitely a first name, while "Bertram" and "Baptiste" could be first or last names.
I like Bertram. Bertrand could be an alternative, I wouldn't mind a character named after Mr. Russell. Shame Baptist is such a descriptive name, you couldn't get away with it!
The first/last name question is an interesting one. Given how close the Italian characters seem to be with one another, a first-name basis seems fitting. I'd say that in general, employers call their butlers by their first names? I can't find any other name for Jeeves (from ... and Wooster). In my developing Scrooge history headcanon, his peers addressed him as "McDuck" at the time he was making his fortune. I've always liked the idea of addressing friends by their last name, but I'm not sure if it'd right for the period (maybe more Victorian than Edwardian?). In my headcanon, Scrooge didn't make it all on his own -- he had a network of close associates beyond the usual Quackfaster and Clerkly. Like I read in a GeoX post the other day: Scrooge may be all about the money, but he's not all all about the money.
Ms Quackfaster is called Juffrouw Eugenia in Dutch. I like it, it has character. I also like characters being called [title] [first name], no last name needed. Juffrouw is Dutch for Ms or Madam.
Another random favorite: Kranz, Indiana Goof's rival. It's got all the right consonants.
"Jeeves" in Wodehouse is definitely the valet's last name; his first name was eventually revealed to be Reginald. There was a whole protocol in England about which servants got addressed by first name and which by last name; valets and butlers apparently were addressed by last name.
Yes, if you're going to be historically accurate to the mid-20th century, people wouldn't use first names for adults unless they were close friends or associates on a peer level...or servants or servant-equivalent employees, especially those with darker skin. Calling an adult who wasn't a close friend/relative by first name was infantilizing and disrespectful, and done all the time to, say, housekeepers. Moving on in time...calling someone "Title Firstname" (unless they're, say, nuns or monks...and then it's not usually the first name they grew up with) was and is sometimes used as a way to split the difference between late 20th-century (and current) American informality, where almost everyone is on a first-name basis, and some remnant of formality, especially when children address unrelated adults. The children call the local children's librarian "Miss Firstname" and the kids at my church call the Sunday school teachers "Teacher Firstname" or "Ms. Firstname." It also pops up in other contexts, e.g. "Judge Judy." Nowadays in the USA gringo/dominant culture, the only people called by "Title Lastname" are important elected officials, judges, doctors, professors.... For most adults, the "formal" form of naming is to call them "Firstname Lastname" e.g. in a media story in the first mention, thereafter just "Lastname," unless that's confusing in context. Theoretically this is done for women as well as for men, though in practice, people who aren't following some media company's guidelines are far more likely to refer to a woman by first name only after the initial mention. But in everyday address, most people, including businesspeople such as bankers, introduce themselves by first name and call other adults by first name.
I like Bertram. Bertrand could be an alternative, I wouldn't mind a character named after Mr. Russell. Shame Baptist is such a descriptive name, you couldn't get away with it!
The first/last name question is an interesting one. Given how close the Italian characters seem to be with one another, a first-name basis seems fitting. I'd say that in general, employers call their butlers by their first names? I can't find any other name for Jeeves (from ... and Wooster). In my developing Scrooge history headcanon, his peers addressed him as "McDuck" at the time he was making his fortune. I've always liked the idea of addressing friends by their last name, but I'm not sure if it'd right for the period (maybe more Victorian than Edwardian?). In my headcanon, Scrooge didn't make it all on his own -- he had a network of close associates beyond the usual Quackfaster and Clerkly. Like I read in a GeoX post the other day: Scrooge may be all about the money, but he's not all all about the money.
Ms Quackfaster is called Juffrouw Eugenia in Dutch. I like it, it has character. I also like characters being called [title] [first name], no last name needed. Juffrouw is Dutch for Ms or Madam.
Another random favorite: Kranz, Indiana Goof's rival. It's got all the right consonants.
"Jeeves" in Wodehouse is definitely the valet's last name; his first name was eventually revealed to be Reginald. There was a whole protocol in England about which servants got addressed by first name and which by last name; valets and butlers apparently were addressed by last name.
Yes, if you're going to be historically accurate to the mid-20th century, people wouldn't use first names for adults unless they were close friends or associates on a peer level. Calling someone "Title Firstname" (unless they're, say, nuns or monks...and then it's not usually the first name they grew up with) was and is sometimes used as a way to split the difference between late 20th-century (and current) American informality, where almost everyone is on a first-name basis, and some remnant of formality, especially when children address unrelated adults. The children call the local children's librarian "Miss Firstname" and the kids at my church call the Sunday school teachers "Teacher Firstname" or "Ms. Firstname." It also pops up in other contexts, e.g. "Judge Judy." Nowadays in the USA gringo/dominant culture, the only people called by "Title Lastname" are important elected officials, judges, doctors, professors.... For most adults, the "formal" form of naming is to call them "Firstname Lastname" e.g. in a media story in the first mention, thereafter just "Lastname," unless that's confusing in context. Theoretically this is does for women as well as for men, though in practice, people who aren't following some media company's guidelines are far more likely to refer to a woman by first name only after the initial mention.
I just can't get used to such informality with relative strangers or total strangers. I would have died before I could call my close family elders, and respected other adults by their first names. That's why we referred to adult close friends to the family as "Auntie"(Tantje) or Uncle(y) (Oompje) if they were not ancient. If they were ancient, we called them Mr. or Mrs. if they were not so close. If we had a relationship to them similar to that of close relatives, then we DID call them uncle or Aunt, no matter how old they were.
"Jeeves" in Wodehouse is definitely the valet's last name; his first name was eventually revealed to be Reginald. There was a whole protocol in England about which servants got addressed by first name and which by last name; valets and butlers apparently were addressed by last name.
Yes, if you're going to be historically accurate to the mid-20th century, people wouldn't use first names for adults unless they were close friends or associates on a peer level. Calling someone "Title Firstname" (unless they're, say, nuns or monks...and then it's not usually the first name they grew up with) was and is sometimes used as a way to split the difference between late 20th-century (and current) American informality, where almost everyone is on a first-name basis, and some remnant of formality, especially when children address unrelated adults. The children call the local children's librarian "Miss Firstname" and the kids at my church call the Sunday school teachers "Teacher Firstname" or "Ms. Firstname." It also pops up in other contexts, e.g. "Judge Judy." Nowadays in the USA gringo/dominant culture, the only people called by "Title Lastname" are important elected officials, judges, doctors, professors.... For most adults, the "formal" form of naming is to call them "Firstname Lastname" e.g. in a media story in the first mention, thereafter just "Lastname," unless that's confusing in context. Theoretically this is does for women as well as for men, though in practice, people who aren't following some media company's guidelines are far more likely to refer to a woman by first name only after the initial mention.
I just can't get used to such informality with relative strangers or total strangers. I would have died before I could call my close family elders, and respected other adults by their first names. That's why we referred to adult close friends to the family as "Auntie"(Tantje) or Uncle(y) (Oompje) if they were not ancient. If they were ancient, we called them Mr. or Mrs. if they were not so close. If we had a relationship to them similar to that of close relatives, then we DID call them uncle or Aunt, no matter how old they were.
Yup, I'm in my early 60's, and I'm with you. I mostly have to go along with the cultural flow, where almost everyone's on a first-name basis, but I don't like it.
This has come up before, in our discussions of the nephews calling Daisy "Aunt Daisy" in some writers' scripts. I keep telling younger people that this doesn't indicate anything at all about a blood relationship--it doesn't even mean that Daisy as a longtime girlfriend of Donald's is a virtual aunt. In the mid-20th century when I grew up, many American kids used "Aunt" and "Uncle" as a title of respect for an adult friend of the family, because calling them "Mr/Mrs/Miss Lastname" would have felt too formal, but calling them "Firstname" would have been disrespectful.
On the other hand, Webby is better named in virtually every language other than English, as far as I'm concerned. The German "Nicky" is fine; I like the French "Zaza," distinguishable from the female triplet Zizi!
DuckTales' decision to use a jillion "web" words, Webby's name included, always struck me as mystifying, even when watching the show first-run as a kid in 1987.
Not "webfoot," just "web"—so the names suggested spiders, not ducks. (Making things even stranger, "web" names were even given to a few characters who must have been scripted as ducks, but didn't end up drawn as them, like the newscaster Webra Walters.)
I like Goofy's names in Scandinavian languages: he's called Langbein in Norwegian (and Långben in Swedish), which I assume means 'long legs'. In Danish it's Fedtmule, which is also quite something, even if I'm not sure what that something is.
Ratface is called Raafje in Dutch, which means little raven. I prefer Zwarte Magica over Magica DeSpell, but since magic doesn't have a C in it in Dutch, I'm never sure whether the Dutch name should be pronounced with a K sound or an S sound.
I also trip over Tick, Trick, and Track.
Zeke Wolf is called Midas Wolf in Dutch because of this little old Western story, where Li'l Wolf discovers his dad's middle name is Midas. Since the American idea of a middle name is a little alien to the Netherlands (it was more common to have multiple Christian names at this time), this story was published very early on (in the sixth weekly) and Zeke didn't have a name yet, Midas became his first name instead of his middle name.
I always have trouble with Scrooge's Italian butler. His original name is Battista, which is how he's known in most of (Romance) Europe. But in Germanic countries, Baptist isn't a common given name, and they've had to get creative. The Dutch name is Bertus, which is unusual enough to be memorable and retains that initial B. It was probably taken from the Danish Albert, which I find awfully generic. And there's the English Quackmore, which is just awful. It reminds me of Duckworth, another dogface butler with a ducky name. It's also overly formal -- I know he's supposed to be a butler, but he's not all that stuck-up! He's called Baptiste in my headcanon, which is from the French, and a name you might hear in an English context. Stephen Colbert's musical director is called Jon Batiste, but I always heard that as Jean-Baptiste, and that's stuck with me.
Beyond names, I've got to credit the Italians for their seemingly limitless capacity for cramming -Paper- into every duck-related name. It's hard to translate, that one.
Well, "fedt" in Danish means "cool" (in the good way, as opposed to the opposite of "warm", and it also is an adjective derived from "fed" , meaning fat. So, it could mean "fatty" as an adjective, or "greasy". "Mule" in Danish also means "mule" in English. So, as Goofy is relatively thin, I guess "Fedtmule" could mean "Greasy Mule". But his birth name was "Dippy Dog", and he looks a LOT more like a dog than a mule. So, I guess the "Greasy" adjective means "Cool", with a good connotation, as it was used to describe beautiful, melodious, 4 and 5-part Rhythm and Blues harmony songs which was referred to as "Greasy Ballads". But, that's a very unique way of naming a major Disney character, so, as it is just a guess from me, we'd better hope to get Ramapith's (David's) view on this, as he worked in Danish Egmont's office for several years, and probably knows the English translation of Fedtmule.
I like Goldie's name in Italian: Doretta Doremi. It's not better than Goldie O'Gilt, but it's as good. I assume that "Doremi" is from the first three notes of the scale? The Danish is pretty good, too: Gulda Glimmer. Her name in German, on the other hand, is pretty LAME: Miss Nelly.
Don't say that to a German Barks fan (or should I say German Carl Barks/Erika Fuchs fan)! One of my very best German friends in one of my "Home Towns", Munich, named his daughter "Nelly" because "Back To The Klondike" was his favourite story as a child.
"Jeeves" was the cultists' generic name for a butler in 19th and early 20th Century English language and literary tradition. I assume that was his last (family) name. Barks never had Scrooge have a butler used in enough panels to give him a name. Jack Bradbury had Scrooge living in a mansion in several stories, and gave him the same butler in, at least, a few of them. I believe he called him "Jeeves" in one, or two of them, and "Jeems" in one. So, I thought the "Foreign" Disney editors should have used "Jeeves".
Rob, Jack Bradbury never (or almost never) wrote the Disney stories he drew, so any name given to a Bradbury-drawn butler would have come from the stories' writers or editors.
That said, "Jeems" is really a Barks Scrooge butler-name! It's in his "Wispy Willie."
That said again—the main reason the "foreign" Disney editors didn't call Scrooge's butler Jeeves (or similar) is that as early as 1964, Disney's overseas editors were already calling John D. Rockerduck's butler Jeeves, and the name has stuck with Rockerduck's butler in English since, even in recent books I've worked on.
As for Quackmore, the name was coined by Gary Leach at Gladstone, who felt that because some stories already gave Scrooge a dogfaced butler with a duckish name at his mansion (Duckworth), the different dogfaced butler at his money bin needed a duckish name to match!
Jonathan Gray was the first to give Quackmore his first name of Albert, borrowing it from the Danes—but I don't think it's a "generic" name at all, as others say above. It makes me think of Albert the Alligator and Albert Ramsbottom, two instantly interesting fictional characters, even if Scrooge's harried bin-butler is nothing like them.