The Duck and Mouse Universes in video games

[alquackskey]

Nov 6, 2020 23:21:53 GMT bats said:

Nov 6, 2020 22:46:56 GMT alquackskey said:

I'm not sure which one I prefer; on the one hand, the American version is much more varied with its crossover elements, which is always fun.

Is it? I've only played the Japanese version, but I was under the impression the American version just replaced the Alice stuff with generic enemies.


The original isn't all Alice though - I mentioned Captain Hook is a boss, and those are clearly the brooms from Fantasia at the 2 minute mark. And is that Dr. Dawson at the 15 minute mark?

Before I say anything, I'll preface it with this:
Forgive me if I miss any of the references in either version; I haven't the greatest memory off-hand, and even at that, I might miss a few things based on the spritework.
Also, about it not being all Alice, I didn't mean to imply that it was - I more meant that the idea of the original was to be centred around Wonderland, despite the detour to Neverland. In general, the Japanese version actually commits to the idea of Wonderland and bases the surrounding characters on that.
The localized version does away with that; they just kind of throw characters in here and there without really trying to tie it together thematically.

So, between both games, here are the characters I recognize.

Japanese version:
Brooms (Fantasia)
Captain Hook (Peter Pan)
Cheshire Cat, The Dodo, Tweedle Dum and Tweedle Dee, The Caterpillar, Card Soldiers, Queen of Hearts, Alice (Alice in Wonderland)
The guy that you're referring to looks more like The Walrus from Alice in Wonderland, to me; I can see the resemblance, but I think he has more in common with The Walrus.

Mickey Mousecapade:
Brooms (Fantasia)
Witch Hazel (Duck universe) [Though the Disney Wiki just calls the character The Wizard? I always thought it was supposed to be Hazel, at any rate.]
The Crocodile (Peter Pan)[Opposite case here; I never made the Pan connection, but the Disney Wiki claims it to be the same one]
Peg-Leg Pete (Technically not really a crossover, but worth mentioning)
Card Soldiers, The Walrus, Alice (Alice in Wonderland)
A horrific looking Maleficent (Sleeping Beauty)
The Disney Wiki also claims that there are characters from Snow White, The Jungle Book and Country Bears Jamboree. I could see the bears being the ones in the Woods, but I have no idea where they're getting Snow White or Jungle Book from.

So, uh... admittedly, the crossover element isn't quite as prevalent as I remembered. I think that when I first played it, I assumed that some of the more interesting looking characters were ones that I didn't recognize; the Cat miniboss in the first level was one that I wondered about!

[bats]

I think the witch is just a generic witch. Doesn't look much like Hazel.

But yeah, that's definitely the Walrus, not Dr. Dawson, my bad.

[bats]

Here's an interesting one, the first ever Disney electronic game, made by Nintendo of all companies. It's not a "video" game, instead using the same type of screen as a calculator, with specific images on the screen being either lit up or turned off. Since this means no part of the screen can ever contain anything other than a specific image that's either there or not, the type of gameplay you can create is obviously somewhat limited, but you can simulate motion to a certain extent by lighting up and turning off pictures of the same object aligned in a row.



The game involves Mickey collecting eggs that are constantly laid by four hens (or just three, if you're playing on the easy difficulty mode), with the controller consisting of one button for each hen. If Mickey is positioned under a hen when that hen's egg is in its lowest position, he collects the egg and scores a point. Sounds simple enough, but the game gets quite hectic once the action speeds up and you have multiple eggs from all four hens to contend with at the same time - just skip ahead to the later parts of the video below to see how tough it can get. Like all good games of this type, there's a near hypnotic rhythm to the way everything moves, so once you get into the groove you're moving Mickey around almost without conscious thought to where he needs to be. It's a good one. Very simple, but well designed.



Nintendo only had the license to release Disney merchandise in Japan, Europe and America, so they also made a slightly different version of the game called "Egg" for Australia and the rest of Asia, where Mickey is replaced by a cartoony wolf character. And when they released a series of Game Boy titles in the 90s collecting multiple of these old LCDs games, the Game & Watch Gallery series, they could put that Egg version of the game on Game & Watch Gallery 3, which is where I got it. It's one of the better games in that collection.

[alquackskey]

Nov 7, 2020 16:38:12 GMT bats said:

Here's an interesting one, the first ever Disney electronic game, made by Nintendo of all companies. It's not a "video" game, instead using the same type of screen as a calculator, with specific images on the screen being either lit up or turned off. Since this means no part of the screen can ever contain anything other than a specific image that's either there or not, the type of gameplay you can create is obviously somewhat limited, but you can simulate motion to a certain extent by lighting up and turning off pictures of the same object aligned in a row.



The game involves Mickey collecting eggs that are constantly laid by four hens (or just three, if you're playing on the easy difficulty mode), with the controller consisting of one button for each hen. If Mickey is positioned under a hen when that hen's egg is in its lowest position, he collects the egg and scores a point. Sounds simple enough, but the game gets quite hectic once the action speeds up and you have multiple eggs from all four hens to contend with at the same time - just skip ahead to the later parts of the video below to see how tough it can get. Like all good games of this type, there's a near hypnotic rhythm to the way everything moves, so once you get into the groove you're moving Mickey around almost without conscious thought to where he needs to be. It's a good one. Very simple, but well designed.



Nintendo only had the license to release Disney merchandise in Japan, Europe and America, so they also made a slightly different version of the game called "Egg" for Australia and the rest of Asia, where Mickey is replaced by a cartoony wolf character. And when they released a series of Game Boy titles in the 90s collecting multiple of these old LCDs games, the Game & Watch Gallery series, they could put that Egg version of the game on Game & Watch Gallery 3, which is where I got it. It's one of the better games in that collection.

I've always wanted to try the Disney Game & Watch titles!
I've always found the Game & Watch to be really endearing (Probably because I had a few other LCD games when I was younger, so I developed a fondness for them), and I always thought that classic Mickey was a perfect fit for the concept.
Fun fact: Super Smash Bros. Brawl is the only Smash game to directly acknowledge Disney properties. They have a Chronicle of games released for each console up to Brawl's release. And, what do you know...


If you've ever played Kingdom Hearts, Kingdom Hearts 3 has content directly inspired by the Disney Game & Watch titles:



That was honestly one of my favourite parts of the game; it was such an unexpected reference, and it's a lot of fun to play. It's a little bit more advanced than I would expect from an actual LCD game, but it still feels authentic enough.

The games themselves look like decent fun; it'd be cool to see Disney partner with Nintendo to actually rerelease them in some small capacity. Either in an updated Game & Watch Gallery or as small releases on the eShop.
I know I'd buy them!

[bats]

Nov 7, 2020 20:15:32 GMT alquackskey said:

The games themselves look like decent fun; it'd be cool to see Disney partner with Nintendo to actually rerelease them in some small capacity. Either in an updated Game & Watch Gallery or as small releases on the eShop.
I know I'd buy them!

Two of the three Disney Game & Watch games (both of them titled "Mickey Mouse") are included in Game & Watch Gallery 3 for the Game Boy Color, though it's in their Disney license-free variants "Egg" and "Donkey Kong Circus". The third one, "Mickey and Donald", is the only one that has never been rereleased due to a lack of such a Disney-less variant.

The chances of Nintendo being able to rerelease them with the Disney license intact is near zero.

[alquackskey]

Nov 7, 2020 20:31:51 GMT bats said:

Nov 7, 2020 20:15:32 GMT alquackskey said:

The games themselves look like decent fun; it'd be cool to see Disney partner with Nintendo to actually rerelease them in some small capacity. Either in an updated Game & Watch Gallery or as small releases on the eShop.
I know I'd buy them!

Two of the three Disney Game & Watch games (both of them titled "Mickey Mouse") are included in Game & Watch Gallery 3 for the Game Boy Color, though it's in their Disney license-free variants "Egg" and "Donkey Kong Circus". The third one, "Mickey and Donald", is the only one that has never been rereleased due to a lack of such a Disney-less variant.

The chances of Nintendo being able to rerelease them with the Disney license intact is near zero.

I know that there's probably no chance of it ever happening; it's mainly just a pipe dream, and not one I hold onto too heavily.
Getting rereleases of the original games would most likely take more effort than either side is interested in putting in, but I'd love to see them do it.
Imagine, a limited edition bundle that has remade versions of the three games, maybe with some bonuses (Something like pins or maybe a little statue, maybe even a Mickey amiibo that functions like the Smash Bros. Mr. Game & Watch?).

As you say, saying that it's ludicrously unlikely is still quite generous, but... one can dream!

[bats]

Nov 7, 2020 21:00:41 GMT alquackskey said:

As you say, saying that it's ludicrously unlikely is still quite generous, but... one can dream!

Well, when Nintendo rereleased a bunch of G&W games in the early 2000s in a tiny keychain mascot format (I got the Donkey Kong one), they DID manage to secure the Peanuts license so they could rerelease Snoopy Tennis as part of that line. It's the only time that game has been rereleased in modern times.

Snoopy Tennis and Mickey Mouse were two of the best selling Game & Watch games, so I'm sure they'd have included Mickey in the line if the Disney license had been available to them. But something tells me it's not overly cheap these days.

[alquackskey]

Nov 8, 2020 0:05:49 GMT bats said:

Nov 7, 2020 21:00:41 GMT alquackskey said:

As you say, saying that it's ludicrously unlikely is still quite generous, but... one can dream!

Well, when Nintendo rereleased a bunch of G&W games in the early 2000s in a tiny keychain mascot format (I got the Donkey Kong one), they DID manage to secure the Peanuts license so they could rerelease Snoopy Tennis as part of that line. It's the only time that game has been rereleased in modern times.

Snoopy Tennis and Mickey Mouse were two of the best selling Game & Watch games, so I'm sure they'd have included Mickey in the line if the Disney license had been available to them. But something tells me it's not overly cheap these days.

While you're most likely right, I like to think that Disney might be a bit more lax about it these days.

Given the fact that they've all but pulled out of making games, choosing instead to allow other studios to develop them, I like to think that they might have loosened up a little. Before, it could have been seen as "We have our own game studios, why would we co-operate with Nintendo when we can get all of the profit for new games?", whereas now, it could be a case of "Hey, we could make some easy money if we let Nintendo bring back these games."

Like you've pointed out, the only real obstacle is greed; there's a decent chance that Nintendo would be up for it, but Disney are asking for too much for it to be considered profitable.

Still, I like to think that it might happen some day.
Maybe if Sora gets into Smash Bros 

[bats]

We already looked at the first Disney electronic game, but how about the first actual VIDEO game starring characters from the Duck/Mouse universes?


That'd be this one, 1983's Sorcerer's Apprentice for the Atari VCS, obviously based on the Fantasia segment of the same name, tying into the 1982 version of the movie:




It's almost the first Disney video game too, only beaten out by a slew of Tron games from the year before.

Unfortunately the game isn't all that hot. It follows the general concept of the Fantasia segment, with Mickey trying to prevent the brooms from flooding the sorcerer's basement (or cavern, as the manual calls it) - Mickey starts out at a mountaintop where magic stars and comets are heading towards him. Every time a star hits the ground it transforms into a broom that will head down into the basement and add some water to it. Mickey can stop the stars either by grabbing them as they fall or by shooting them with a magic fireball, and he can also head down to the basement to intercept the brooms there before they can deposit their water - though the more water there is in the basement, the less room he has to manuever down there, and once the basement flood completely the game is over. The only way to make the water level go down is to create magic buckets that will empty it, which is done by shooting fireballs at the magic comets in the mountain area. Since it's much easier to stop the brooms by intercepting them in the basement as opposed to stopping the stars from hitting the ground, this means the player needs to run back and forth, switching between staying in the basement to intercept brooms and staying in the mountain to collect more buckets.



It's one of those games I just never found all that fun. The controls are annoying, the comets are frustratingly hard to hit, and the game itself is heavily balanced around the player being able to constantly pick off those comets at a really rapid pace, since the basement gets near impossible to cover once the water reaches past the middle level. Lots of other games from the era have similar "try to stay on top of the situation without getting overwhelmed" gameplay, but this one just doesn't do it for me. Missile Command this is not.

Curiously enough this game was released as part of Atari's kids' line, which otherwise consisted of basic edutainment titles for kindergarteners, which feels like an odd fit. This game has no edutainment content and can get pretty hard pretty fast.

[alquackskey]

Nov 9, 2020 17:46:39 GMT bats said:

We already looked at the first Disney electronic game, but how about the first actual VIDEO game starring characters from the Duck/Mouse universes?


That'd be this one, 1983's Sorcerer's Apprentice for the Atari VCS, obviously based on the Fantasia segment of the same name, tying into the 1982 version of the movie:




It's almost the first Disney video game too, only beaten out by a slew of Tron games from the year before.

Unfortunately the game isn't all that hot. It follows the general concept of the Fantasia segment, with Mickey trying to prevent the brooms from flooding the sorcerer's basement (or cavern, as the manual calls it) - Mickey starts out at a mountaintop where magic stars and comets are heading towards him. Every time a star hits the ground it transforms into a broom that will head down into the basement and add some water to it. Mickey can stop the stars either by grabbing them as they fall or by shooting them with a magic fireball, and he can also head down to the basement to intercept the brooms there before they can deposit their water - though the more water there is in the basement, the less room he has to manuever down there, and once the basement flood completely the game is over. The only way to make the water level go down is to create magic buckets that will empty it, which is done by shooting fireballs at the magic comets in the mountain area. Since it's much easier to stop the brooms by intercepting them in the basement as opposed to stopping the stars from hitting the ground, this means the player needs to run back and forth, switching between staying in the basement to intercept brooms and staying in the mountain to collect more buckets.



It's one of those games I just never found all that fun. The controls are annoying, the comets are frustratingly hard to hit, and the game itself is heavily balanced around the player being able to constantly pick off those comets at a really rapid pace, since the basement gets near impossible to cover once the water reaches past the middle level. Lots of other games from the era have similar "try to stay on top of the situation without getting overwhelmed" gameplay, but this one just doesn't do it for me. Missile Command this is not.

Curiously enough this game was released as part of Atari's kids' line, which otherwise consisted of basic edutainment titles for kindergarteners, which feels like an odd fit. This game has no edutainment content and can get pretty hard pretty fast.

Ooooooof.
As soon as I saw the word 'Atari', I knew to set my expectations low, but... ouch.

It can be given some leeway, in fairness - it was an early licensed game, it was one of the first Disney games ever made, all in all it came from a time where its quality was, to some degree, justifiable.
It definitely doesn't look like the kind of game you'd be too pushed on revisiting, though.
Still, despite that, it does have some sort of odd charm to it; I can't comment on the controls, of course, but it looks competently made and functional (Unlike certain other games for the Atari, especially licensed ones...).
Plus, even if it grates on the ears a little, I find the music endearing. I probably wouldn't be too quick to say that if I was to actually play it for more than a few minutes, though!

The point about it being released in the Atari kids' line is actually pretty interesting - it doesn't really have any educational value.
Maybe it was just the Disney branding that got it in there?

[bats]

Nov 11, 2020 20:36:04 GMT alquackskey said:

The point about it being released in the Atari kids' line is actually pretty interesting - it doesn't really have any educational value.
Maybe it was just the Disney branding that got it in there?

Probably. The line got canceled after 7 games - 4 educational Sesame Street ones meant to be played with a specialized controller made for very young kids (Alpha Beam with Ernie, Big Bird's Egg Catch, Cookie Monster Munch and Oscar's Trash Race), two rather simplistic and easy action games based on Peanuts and the Muppets (Snoopy and the Red Baron and Pigs in Space)... and then this one, which is both complicated enough you really need to read the manual to understand the gameplay AND with the same kind of difficulty level you'd expect from your average video game rather than a toned down one aimed at younger kids. It feels like an outlier.

But yeah, the idea behind the game is fine - gather resources on one screen and use them on another, while working fast and efficiently to stay on top of the situation, it's just hurt by poor controls, balance issues and the relative lack of action in the basement screen. There are games with similar concepts that work very well, like the timeless classic Rampart, but this one's just not very fun.

[alquackskey]

Nov 11, 2020 22:04:04 GMT bats said:

Nov 11, 2020 20:36:04 GMT alquackskey said:

The point about it being released in the Atari kids' line is actually pretty interesting - it doesn't really have any educational value.
Maybe it was just the Disney branding that got it in there?

Probably. The line got canceled after 7 games - 4 educational Sesame Street ones meant to be played with a specialized controller made for very young kids (Alpha Beam with Ernie, Big Bird's Egg Catch, Cookie Monster Munch and Oscar's Trash Race), two rather simplistic and easy action games based on Peanuts and the Muppets (Snoopy and the Red Baron and Pigs in Space)... and then this one, which is both complicated enough you really need to read the manual to understand the gameplay AND with the same kind of difficulty level you'd expect from your average video game rather than a toned down one aimed at younger kids. It feels like an outlier.

But yeah, the idea behind the game is fine - gather resources on one screen and use them on another, while working fast and efficiently to stay on top of the situation, it's just hurt by poor controls, balance issues and the relative lack of action in the basement screen. There are games with similar concepts that work very well, like the timeless classic Rampart, but this one's just not very fun.

Given the fact that the line ended up getting cancelled, perhaps they just didn't really have anything else to throw in there?
It seems that the line is primarily based on licensed properties. Educational licensed properties were probably not in the greatest supply - though I was never really an Atari fan, so I might not be wholly correct on that.

They probably started the line, realized that there wasn't enough to sustain it, tried sticking Mickey Mouse in there and canned the concept altogether after.

I suppose that's probably for the best - I think that edutainment games need to have a certain degree of quality. I got suckered into plenty of educational games when I was younger because they were decently made - it's not really something that the Atari can do very well.
Could make a fun little educational game on Disney's website if they were to remaster it and throw in some sort of math or logic based concepts, though... 

[bats]

Nov 11, 2020 22:50:26 GMT alquackskey said:

They probably started the line, realized that there wasn't enough to sustain it, tried sticking Mickey Mouse in there and canned the concept altogether after.

It got canceled because it wasn't profitable enough, and Atari was having financial difficulties at the time. At least 9 other games were in various states of development at the time: Bugs Bunny, The Count's Castle, Donald Duck's Speedboat, Dumbo's Flying Circus, Garfield, Good Luck Charlie Brown, Grover's Music Maker, Miss Piggy's Wedding and Snow White.

But educational video games were absolutely a thing, and a lot of the early 80s Disney games were exactly that. Just not this one.

[alquackskey]

Nov 11, 2020 23:26:37 GMT bats said:

Nov 11, 2020 22:50:26 GMT alquackskey said:

They probably started the line, realized that there wasn't enough to sustain it, tried sticking Mickey Mouse in there and canned the concept altogether after.

It got canceled because it wasn't profitable enough, and Atari was having financial difficulties at the time. At least 9 other games were in various states of development at the time: Bugs Bunny, The Count's Castle, Donald Duck's Speedboat, Dumbo's Flying Circus, Garfield, Good Luck Charlie Brown, Grover's Music Maker, Miss Piggy's Wedding and Snow White.

But educational video games were absolutely a thing, and a lot of the early 80s Disney games were exactly that. Just not this one.

Ah, fair enough! My experience with Atari is fairly limited outside of the more well-known subjects surrounding it.

I didn't mean to discount the concept of educational games entirely - just those on the Atari.
Of course, that idea carries some bias in it... I have a love of retro gaming, but I just can't deal with Atari for some reason. Even the more well regarded games just don't sit well with me for some reason.

[bats]

Nov 11, 2020 23:47:24 GMT alquackskey said:

Ah, fair enough! My experience with Atari is fairly limited outside of the more well-known subjects surrounding it.

I didn't mean to discount the concept of educational games entirely - just those on the Atari.
Of course, that idea carries some bias in it... I have a love of retro gaming, but I just can't deal with Atari for some reason. Even the more well regarded games just don't sit well with me for some reason.

Bit of a departure from the general subject, but if you're interested in getting more exposure, I heavily recommend this Youtube video series, which presents highly in-depth retrospectives on the Atari VCS games in chronological order:
www.youtube.com/c/AtariArchive/videos?sort=da