Hello. We're doing this again, but this time it's the Duck family, rather than the clan McDuck. I'm curious about finding more Duck ancestors than those that Taliaferro, Barks, and Rosa introduced. Below is a timeline of sorts of the ancestors I'm currently aware of. Red text indicates that the information is not based on any actual source, but just pure guesswork. Since a generation is around 25-30 years, the unknown spots have been separated by roughly that amount of time. The portraits on the bottom line are Ducks I can't place in time, since I'm not a history buff. If you know stuff, please tell me.
The objective here is pretty much to find ancestor-characters from stories which can slot into the appropriate empty portraits to fill out and complete the genealogy. Do you know of any great-great [...] grandfathers of Donald not present in the timeline?
Post by TheMidgetMoose on Nov 11, 2020 0:33:06 GMT
There's the ancestor seen in The New Year's Curse -- Bridger Duck by name, I believe -- who was a contemporary of Cornelius Coot. I haven't actually read the story and thus don't know if he is supposed to be a direct ancestor of Donald's or not. I guess there's not really much room for him on your tree, anyway, since he was probably born somewhere around the year you have for Crockett's birth, and it's my understanding that Crockett is officially Donald's great-great-great-grandfather. Maybe Crockett isn't as old as his historical counterpart and is the son of Bridger, who in turn is the same of the unnamed American War for Independence veteran.
There might also be reason to try to fit in Silas Elias Duck of Rainbow Island Rendezvous somehow, but his placement on the tree is a bit confusing, in my opinion. I can't think of any others at the moment, but I'll get back to this thread if I do! I love this kind of stuff, as I think I've expressed before. I look forward to seeing how far this project goes.
No matter what I say or do, know that Jesus loves you.
There's the ancestor seen in The New Year's Curse -- Bridger Duck by name, I believe -- who was a contemporary of Cornelius Coot. I haven't actually read the story and thus don't know if he is supposed to be a direct ancestor of Donald's or not. I guess there's not really much room for him on your tree, anyway, since he was probably born somewhere around the year you have for Crockett's birth, and it's my understanding that Crockett is officially Donald's great-great-great-grandfather. Maybe Crockett isn't as old as his historical counterpart and is the son of Bridger, who in turn is the same of the unnamed American War for Independence veteran.
There might also be reason to try to fit in Silas Elias Duck of Rainbow Island Rendezvous somehow, but his placement on the tree is a bit confusing, in my opinion. I can't think of any others at the moment, but I'll get back to this thread if I do! I love this kind of stuff, as I think I've expressed before. I look forward to seeing how far this project goes.
I tried to fit Bridger into the timeline, but faced the same problem as you. I don't like the idea of changing Crockett's birth year. I mean, he's supposed to be the Duck-universe's Davy Crockett, meaning that his life would be largely the same (including his year of birth). The idea of merging him with the American Revolutionary warrior is an interesting one. However, I prefer, at least for now, to think of Bridger as a brother to either Crockett or the warrior.
I had completely forgotten that Silas Elias is a candidate for this! This is probably because everything in his story points to him being a McDuck, except for the fact that his name is Duck! How can someone named Duck be an ancestor of Scrooge? Of course, McTavish Duck has the same problem, yet I put him. I have no reason for this.
Anyways, I seem to recall either Donald or Scrooge referring to Silas Elias as their "old sea grandfather" or something like that. This would place Silas Elias in either the "Dabney" or "Danial" slots - neither of which I am keen on replacing. However, I guess "grandfather" is a vague enough term that can refer to an ancestor that's a few generations older. For example, I don't see any problems with pushing both Seth and McTavish back a generation and placing Silas Elias in the "1725" slot, if he would fit there. Then the question becomes whether that is too much of a stretch, given the limited information we have.
Needless to say, you and I share this love of Duck trees, Moose! You'd think Duck-ancestors would be easier to find than McDucks, but I don't know where to turn for any more.
I tried to fit Bridger into the timeline, but faced the same problem as you. I don't like the idea of changing Crockett's birth year. I mean, he's supposed to be the Duck-universe's Davy Crockett, meaning that his life would be largely the same (including his year of birth). The idea of merging him with the American Revolutionary warrior is an interesting one. However, I prefer, at least for now, to think of Bridger as a brother to either Crockett or the warrior.
I had completely forgotten that Silas Elias is a candidate for this! This is probably because everything in his story points to him being a McDuck, except for the fact that his name is Duck! How can someone named Duck be an ancestor of Scrooge? Of course, McTavish Duck has the same problem, yet I put him. I have no reason for this.
Anyways, I seem to recall either Donald or Scrooge referring to Silas Elias as their "old sea grandfather" or something like that. This would place Silas Elias in either the "Dabney" or "Danial" slots - neither of which I am keen on replacing. However, I guess "grandfather" is a vague enough term that can refer to an ancestor that's a few generations older. For example, I don't see any problems with pushing both Seth and McTavish back a generation and placing Silas Elias in the "1725" slot, if he would fit there. Then the question becomes whether that is too much of a stretch, given the limited information we have.
Needless to say, you and I share this love of Duck trees, Moose! You'd think Duck-ancestors would be easier to find than McDucks, but I don't know where to turn for any more.
In Rainbow Island Rendezvous, Donald refers to Silas Elias as "that old sea dog grandpa of ours" (emphasis mine). It's unclear if he means that Silas Elias is his and Huey, Dewey, and Louie's grandpa or that he is his and Scrooge's grandpa. Scrooge later refers to Silas Elias as his "relative" and says that he is his and Donald's "ancestor." I don't think he's actually grandpa, either, as Donald refers to him as "Silas" at other points in the comic instead of "Grandpa" or "Grandpa Silas." I think when he said "that old sea dog grandpa," he really just meant "that old sea dog male ancestor." All in all, he could be very distant and fit in where you would place him.
The only issue is that Donald says that Silas willed an "old sea chest" to him specifically. In other words, he implies that Silas gave the chest to him directly as opposed to it being passed down through several generations. Perhaps we can just ignore that line, but if we count it and can't come up with a way to handwave it away, then it seems that Silas was still alive when Donald was born, which is pretty unlikely if he was born in 1725, at least in my imaginings of the Duck Universe.
No matter what I say or do, know that Jesus loves you.
Is Andold Wild Duck considered to be a direct ancestor of Donald?
I believe so, yes. However, as he was stationed in Scotland, I have him down as the maternal grandfather of a McDuck. Then again, both McTavish and Seth were likely both based in Scotland, so maybe that's where Andold would fit?
In Rainbow Island Rendezvous, Donald refers to Silas Elias as "that old sea dog grandpa of ours" (emphasis mine). It's unclear if he means that Silas Elias is his and Huey, Dewey, and Louie's grandpa or that he is his and Scrooge's grandpa. Scrooge later refers to Silas Elias as his "relative" and says that he is his and Donald's "ancestor." I don't think he's actually grandpa, either, as Donald refers to him as "Silas" at other points in the comic instead of "Grandpa" or "Grandpa Silas." I think when he said "that old sea dog grandpa," he really just meant "that old sea dog male ancestor." All in all, he could be very distant and fit in where you would place him.
The only issue is that Donald says that Silas willed an "old sea chest" to him specifically. In other words, he implies that Silas gave the chest to him directly as opposed to it being passed down through several generations. Perhaps we can just ignore that line, but if we count it and can't come up with a way to handwave it away, then it seems that Silas was still alive when Donald was born, which is pretty unlikely if he was born in 1725, at least in my imaginings of the Duck Universe.
I'm so curious about what the writer of that story thought the Duck family tree looked like. I mean, the easy answer is that "they didn't care", but you kinda have to when you're specifically writing a story about an ancestor! Did they intend for Silas Elias to be Grandma's late husband? ...And also that Scrooge was her brother...? Then Silas and Scrooge still wouldn't be related... Or was Silas Elias supposed to be Donald's great-grandfather instead? Well, Scrooge still isn't named Duck...
I've got nothing. This really doesn't make any sense. My takeaway from this is that they should have made Silas Elias a McDuck.
Silas giving Donald the chest directly just makes this mess so much worse. I'm not... I... I don't like this Silas Elias character.
Hello. We're doing this again, but this time it's the Duck family, rather than the clan McDuck. I'm curious about finding more Duck ancestors than those that Taliaferro, Barks, and Rosa introduced. Below is a timeline of sorts of the ancestors I'm currently aware of. Red text indicates that the information is not based on any actual source, but just pure guesswork. Since a generation is around 25-30 years, the unknown spots have been separated by roughly that amount of time. The portraits on the bottom line are Ducks I can't place in time, since I'm not a history buff. If you know stuff, please tell me.
The objective here is pretty much to find ancestor-characters from stories which can slot into the appropriate empty portraits to fill out and complete the genealogy. Do you know of any great-great [...] grandfathers of Donald not present in the timeline?
In which stories do the characters in the bottom line appear? Maybe that makes it easier to place them in a timeline.
Sir Sooth McDuck looks to me like a late medieval knight. As you can see in the picture, only since 1450 knights wore full plate armor.
Johannes de Duck's name sounds very Dutch. His hat doesn't look like a typical historical Dutch hat, so maybe he is a duck of Dutch ancestry that lived in another country. Duck C seems to be wearing a wig. Wigs were popular between 1650 and 1795. Duck C is probably from this period. I can't say much about the other Ducks in the bottom line if I don't know the context they appear in.
In which stories do the characters in the bottom line appear? Maybe that makes it easier to place them in a timeline.
Sir Sooth McDuck looks to me like a late medieval knight. As you can see in the picture, only since 1450 knights wore full plate armor.
Johannes de Duck's name sounds very Dutch. His hat doesn't look like a typical historical Dutch hat, so maybe he is a duck of Dutch ancestry that lived in another country. Duck C seems to be wearing a wig. Wigs were popular between 1650 and 1795. Duck C is probably from this period. I can't say much about the other Ducks in the bottom line if I don't know the context they appear in.
Out of those, I've only read the one with Sooth (I do not recommend it!). There's no helpful indication of when his native era is. I suppose Duck F (which I now realize I should have named E) could very well be retconned into being "Colombust", as he is seen meeting native Americans in his story. I could make Sooth his son.
In which stories do the characters in the bottom line appear? Maybe that makes it easier to place them in a timeline.
Sir Sooth McDuck looks to me like a late medieval knight. As you can see in the picture, only since 1450 knights wore full plate armor.
Johannes de Duck's name sounds very Dutch. His hat doesn't look like a typical historical Dutch hat, so maybe he is a duck of Dutch ancestry that lived in another country. Duck C seems to be wearing a wig. Wigs were popular between 1650 and 1795. Duck C is probably from this period. I can't say much about the other Ducks in the bottom line if I don't know the context they appear in.
Out of those, I've only read the one with Sooth (I do not recommend it!). There's no helpful indication of when his native era is. I suppose Duck F (which I now realize I should have named E) could very well be retconned into being "Colombust", as he is seen meeting native Americans in his story. I could make Sooth his son.
Hm... Now that I think about it, Duck D might be a good fit for Columbust Duck. He seems to be standing on a ship, which is fitting for a Columbus parody, and does bare something of a resemblance to Christopher Columbus, in my opinion. Duck F could be his son, perhaps, while Sooth could be Columbust's father. This would make the family line be Sooth --> Columbust --> Duck F --> Unknown --> Pintail.
No matter what I say or do, know that Jesus loves you.
Hm... Now that I think about it, Duck D might be a good fit for Columbust Duck. He seems to be standing on a ship, which is fitting for a Columbus parody, and does bare something of a resemblance to Christopher Columbus, in my opinion. Duck F could be his son, perhaps, while Sooth could be Columbust's father. This would make the family line be Sooth --> Columbust --> Duck F --> Unknown --> Pintail.
I like the way you think, Moose! Duck F seems to be giving something to the native American. I wonder what that is. My only guess is that this is some sort of reference to the Siege of Fort Pitt, and that the duck is handing over an item infected with smallpox... But that would place this event in 1763. Him being Columbust's son works well enough. The image is too small to make out anyways.
Fantomius mentioned that wigs were popular in between 1650 and 1795. However, the strip that these Ducks are from seems to imply that the timeline goes medieval knights (1400s?) -> wigs ->Three musketeers-era (early 1600s) -> Christopher Columbus (late 1400s). It seems like the chronology of that strip isn't to be trusted... Is there a history buff here who can clarify? (I'll place the wig-man once the strip's non-chronology is confirmed!)
That leaves us with this:
I decided to not include Silas Elias since that guy remains a mystery.
Hm... Now that I think about it, Duck D might be a good fit for Columbust Duck. He seems to be standing on a ship, which is fitting for a Columbus parody, and does bare something of a resemblance to Christopher Columbus, in my opinion. Duck F could be his son, perhaps, while Sooth could be Columbust's father. This would make the family line be Sooth --> Columbust --> Duck F --> Unknown --> Pintail.
I like the way you think, Moose! Duck F seems to be giving something to the native American. I wonder what that is. My only guess is that this is some sort of reference to the Siege of Fort Pitt, and that the duck is handing over an item infected with smallpox... But that would place this event in 1763. Him being Columbust's son works well enough. The image is too small to make out anyways.
Fantomius mentioned that wigs were popular in between 1650 and 1795. However, the strip that these Ducks are from seems to imply that the timeline goes medieval knights (1400s?) -> wigs ->Three musketeers-era (early 1600s) -> Christopher Columbus (late 1400s). It seems like the chronology of that strip isn't to be trusted... Is there a history buff here who can clarify? (I'll place the wig-man once the strip's non-chronology is confirmed!)
That leaves us with this:
I decided to not include Silas Elias since that guy remains a mystery.
So, I'm gonna preface this by saying that I'm no history buff.
Johannes de Duck is wearing a bicorne, and, from what I can find, they weren't really a thing before 1790. Not much to go on, but it's something?
Is there any context for Donaldus? From what I'm seeing, he seems to be either a parody of Nostradamus or an alchemist of some sort. If the former, he's easily slotted around 1503-1566. If the latter, it'd be pretty difficult to pin down without context. The clothing doesn't give too much to work with; it's hard to tell if there is anything significant because the beard is covering a lot of it. The headwear is pretty simple, but I think it's likely that he was somewhere around 13th-16th century? I could probably do some more digging to try to narrow it down, but that's a starting point from what I can find. EDIT: I missed your post that mentioned their comics of origin, I'll give it another look!
You seem to have an idea for the one in the wig, and I can barely see A and B, so that's about all I can offer there
Last Edit: Nov 26, 2020 15:38:03 GMT by alquackskey: Missed a post that gives context
Resident autistic, diabetic duck fan.
I love hearing about bizarre/obscure Disney works - recommendations welcome!
In which stories do the characters in the bottom line appear? Maybe that makes it easier to place them in a timeline.
Sir Sooth McDuck looks to me like a late medieval knight. As you can see in the picture, only since 1450 knights wore full plate armor.
Johannes de Duck's name sounds very Dutch. His hat doesn't look like a typical historical Dutch hat, so maybe he is a duck of Dutch ancestry that lived in another country. Duck C seems to be wearing a wig. Wigs were popular between 1650 and 1795. Duck C is probably from this period. I can't say much about the other Ducks in the bottom line if I don't know the context they appear in.
Out of those, I've only read the one with Sooth (I do not recommend it!). There's no helpful indication of when his native era is. I suppose Duck F (which I now realize I should have named E) could very well be retconned into being "Colombust", as he is seen meeting native Americans in his story. I could make Sooth his son.
The story featuring Johannes refers to him as Bluebill.
Obviously that's a parody of Bluebeard, but that presents an issue - Bluebill is a pirate, whereas Bluebeard actually wasn't one. That leaves two possibilities - either it's a parody in name only, and has no in-universe relation... ...or he's actually a parody of Blackbeard. It's a common mix-up.
The real Blackbeard was alive from 1680-1718, and was only active as a pirate towards the end of his life. The fact that Blackbeard was purported to have written a journal (Which wasn't the case, but we all know that Duck stories have a certain fondness for popular myths and legends) certainly helps the idea that it was a mix-up, and that he's a parody of Blackbeard, Now, that somewhat contradicts the image of Johannes wearing a bicorne (Blackbeard is often depicted as wearing a tricorne), but the only sources I've seen say that the bicorne was popularized around 1790. So you could allow for a little bit of jiggery-pokery with the dates and it could still make relative sense. Images of the two for comparison: Johannes, wearing a bicorne:
Blackbeard, wearing a tricorne:
Of course, I could just be looking too deep into it or overlooking some details, but that might mean something, at least?
Last Edit: Nov 26, 2020 15:59:44 GMT by alquackskey: Adding images and a little more context
Resident autistic, diabetic duck fan.
I love hearing about bizarre/obscure Disney works - recommendations welcome!