Both of the panels “We’re nearly there” and “Is that your cabin” look like they’ve been resized. The dialogue is too close to the panel border on the latter panel. So even if you could fully rebuild Barks’ original pages, they would be a bit scruffy looking.
Yeah, those panels were both cropped by Western, as researchers like David Gerstein and Joakim Gunnarsson have pointed out. I agree the odds don't seem huge that the parts that were cropped off some panels back then have been preserved. You never know, but it's much easier to picture someone preserving a complete panel than smaller chunks of one.
Hi drakeborough, thanks for your comments. Maybe collectors more familiar with Italian reprints could give information regarding these (quite obscure) Italian versions? Regarding the edit date reported on the Inducks webpage, such edits do not necessarily indicate a noteworthy change - I may change a comma in a comment, it will show up as an "edit". Also note that the Swedish publication is registered. I also added the following reprint of CS OS 456: inducks.org/issue.php?c=us%2FGGA+++3#b
Good to see that the discovered panel is not anymore listed as not having known publications. And that link shows an interesting new page, giving more details about pre-1981 publications of the deleted scenes. Anyway, I think the page about the discovered panel should be uniformed to other similar pages in that these all include the submission date, 18 September 1952.
Since I have mentioned Zio Paperone #1 and its inked panels, I'll post a high quality scan of the whole page below, since the Inducks image is pretty small:
Since I have mentioned Zio Paperone #1 and its inked panels, I'll post a high quality scan of the whole page below, since the Inducks image is pretty small:
Thanks for the scan! By chance, do you have the Inducks link to this Italian publication as well?
I would like to question whether the 1981 half-page by Barks was really "inked" for this color publication. It doesn't look like it to me. From what I can tell, they simply took Barks' pencil sketch and colored it. If you look at the original black-and-white version, the linework looks identical:
Thanks for the scan! By chance, do you have the Inducks link to this Italian publication as well?
This is the Inducks link to Zio Paperone #1. This was the link to the 1981 panels as they appear in ZP 1: the page was created a few days ago after I mentioned it here, but I see that it has been removed, and I think I understand why.
I would like to question whether the 1981 half-page by Barks was really "inked" for this color publication. It doesn't look like it to me. From what I can tell, they simply took Barks' pencil sketch and colored it. If you look at the original black-and-white version, the linework looks identical:
When I saw the ZP 1 page years ago and when I re-checked it few days ago, I assumed it was inked since to me it sort of looked like inked pages, but I have also wondered if I could be wrong and if it the panels could have been simply colored without being inked. I couldn't decide myself, and was only sure that it was different from Jippes' version. You just said you support the idea that the panels weren't inked, and apparently Inducks also came to the same conclusion.
Thanks for the scan! By chance, do you have the Inducks link to this Italian publication as well?
This is the Inducks link to Zio Paperone #1. This was the link to the 1981 panels as they appear in ZP 1: the page was created a few days ago after I mentioned it here, but I see that it has been removed, and I think I understand why.
I would like to question whether the 1981 half-page by Barks was really "inked" for this color publication. It doesn't look like it to me. From what I can tell, they simply took Barks' pencil sketch and colored it. If you look at the original black-and-white version, the linework looks identical:
When I saw the ZP 1 page years ago and when I re-checked it few days ago, I assumed it was inked since to me it sort of looked like inked pages, but I have also wondered if I could be wrong and if it the panels could have been simply colored without being inked. I couldn't decide myself, and was only sure that it was different from Jippes' version. You just said you support the idea that the panels weren't inked, and apparently Inducks also came to the same conclusion.
Study the linework. If someone had inked Barks' original sketch, there's no way he/she would have gotten THAT close to the pencil lines.
Study the linework. If someone had inked Barks' original sketch, there's no way he/she would have gotten THAT close to the pencil lines.
Yeah, after re-watching and comparing the images more carefully, I am convinced that they are not inked. I remember that I first saw these panels years ago in Zio Paperone #100, in an article that showed page 16 of the story as shown in ZP 1 as part of a retrospective of the main content from the first 99 volumes. That image was painfully small, but since it was in color I assumed that it was inked, and I was surprised because back then Jippes' inked version was known to have been published in Italy only in articles, but never inside the story. Once I got a copy of ZP 1 I noticed that it was different from Jippes' version, and therefore I assumed it must have been inked by someone else. It turns out that while I was right in ruling out that it was inked by Jippes, I was wrong in thinking it was inked at all. Still, I find it impressive how at first glance these panels seem inked just because they are colored: there are uninked drawings which would clearly appear as uninked even if they were colored.
I'm sorry for making Inducks users create a new page that they had to remove in a couple of days, so I'll try to make up for that by sending a better image from ZP 1, sending an image of the uncolored uninked version with Italian translation from more recent issues, and sending a better image of the most recent American version of the panels as shown in the Barks library.
Anyway, did I miss something, or Søren Marsner Hansen hasn't yet shared the details of how and where the missing panel was found? He has discussed the content of the panel online, but none of the people who have interacted with him seem to have asked him about it. I wonder why.
Last Edit: Feb 27, 2021 23:15:40 GMT by drakeborough
They're clearly not inked- you don't even need to compare to the original pencils, the scratchy rough lines in the final are a tell enough. Look at details like Scrooge's shoulder in the last panel. At a guess, they xeroxed it at a higher contrast to "clean" the lines up and coloured that.
Hi Drakeborough, no worry, it's not that much trouble to remove an entry in Inducks. We try to double-check things if we can, and the Italian Inducks team told me to revert it after I told them about the half-page.
No, Søren Marsner Hansen didn't share any detail as far as I know. I would guess that someone kept the artwork for a long time and then died, but that's a wild guess of course. In any case, weren't the editors supposed to send the art back to Barks? I am not sure that they paid Barks at all, and seem to remember they didn't, according to Barks.
They're clearly not inked- you don't even need to compare to the original pencils, the scratchy rough lines in the final are a tell enough. Look at details like Scrooge's shoulder in the last panel. At a guess, they xeroxed it at a higher contrast to "clean" the lines up and coloured that.
Indeed, the more I watch them now the more clear it is that they are not inked, to the point where I wonder why I didn't become convinced of that earlier.
Hi Drakeborough, no worry, it's not that much trouble to remove an entry in Inducks. We try to double-check things if we can, and the Italian Inducks team told me to revert it after I told them about the half-page.
Good to hear that. I know the Inducks team is very busy since there are suggested changes that could be done in a minute that are still marked as unsolved after years, but it makes sense that recent entries are double-checked. By the way, was this discussion with the Italian team public or private? I gave a quick glance through recently suggested edits but didn't find it. Anyway, I will still do the three suggested changes since I have the needed material, and it is not a long job.
No, Søren Marsner Hansen didn't share any detail as far as I know.
That's strange, given how he seemed eager to share his discovery with the web. It's possible that some of the people who were involved in the search asked not to be nominated for privacy concerns, but still, we won't know if that's the case until someone asks him. I would like to do it myself, but as I said I don't have Facebook and don't know his e-mail. Does the Swedish magazine say anything? A page was posted, but I can't translate it and don't even know if it's the only one.
I would guess that someone kept the artwork for a long time and then died, but that's a wild guess of course. In any case, weren't the editors supposed to send the art back to Barks? I am not sure that they paid Barks at all, and seem to remember they didn't, according to Barks.
In a 1974 interview, Barrier asked Barks "Were you paid for the other five pages?", and Barks answered "Evidently I wasn't". I guess the artwork may have not been sent back to him. What you said about a person having kept the artwork for a long time and then died is possible, though if that's the case it would be interesting to know if that person was aware or not of the value of that artwork, as well as the fact that duck fans were looking for it for a long time. But there's no point in speculating on that until we have more facts.
No, Søren Marsner Hansen didn't share any detail as far as I know.
That's strange, given how he seemed eager to share his discovery with the web.
A lot of people in hardcore collector circles are extremely private and in general don't want it to become public who they are and what kind of extreme rarities they are in possession of. It's very possible that whatever source Hansen obtained this panel from also had the other panels, which ended up with other private collectors, and that Hansen is keeping quiet because these other collectors don't want anyone outside their circles to know what they now have.
Nothing good is going to come out of bugging Hansen about this, please don't do so.
Hi Drakeborough, no worry, it's not that much trouble to remove an entry in Inducks. We try to double-check things if we can, and the Italian Inducks team told me to revert it after I told them about the half-page.
No, Søren Marsner Hansen didn't share any detail as far as I know. I would guess that someone kept the artwork for a long time and then died, but that's a wild guess of course. In any case, weren't the editors supposed to send the art back to Barks? I am not sure that they paid Barks at all, and seem to remember they didn't, according to Barks.
Comic-book publishers at the time were empathically not obligated to send unused (or used) artwork back to the creators, and in most cases they didn't. That's exactly why several cut sequences or panels from Barks' stories are still missing. Like an action-packed half-page panel Barks drew for the story "Mythtic Mystery". Here are some quotes about it from cbarks.dk:
Many times Barks was asked about the published story [Mythtic Mystery] as well as the missing panels. Here are some of his responses:
1: Oh, I've had stories butchered! I remember a story in which a planet that was Valhalla came down close to the Earth. And the ducks were picked up by a cyclone and transported to this big planet which was up there. The gravitational pull between the two planets was sort of controlled by how much gold there was on Valhalla and how much gold there was on the Earth. And while they were up there the kids and Donald, I think, persuaded Thor to come down and explore the Earth to see whether they wanted Valhalla to go any closer to Earth than it was then. So Thor came down in his chariot with the kids and went over the busiest street intersection in Duckburg. I had all kinds of noise and traffic and smog, every unpleasant thing we have on the Earth was in that one big, massive panel. And here was Thor in his chariot coming down over this street intersection. I worked for a couple of days to make that drawing, and it was taken out of the story and, I guess, wounded up in a waste basket some place, because they needed a little space to print an ad for some kind of ... sugar candy, I guess. Made me very disheartened!
2: I wrote a 16-pager of Uncle Scrooge and the ducks getting blown into Valhalla - a wandering small planet that strays into the earth's shadow. This Valhalla is peopled by dog-faces named Thor, Odin, and other names common to the Norse Gods. Also Vulcan, Jupiter, Venus, and the Latin Gods are named.
After Barks saw his amputated 16-pager that ended up being published as a 14-pager, he sighed: My chin hit my knees when I saw the big half-page stupender I did of Thor and Vulcan and a nephew riding above the busiest street corner in Duckburg in the gold chariot missing! Thor's horses terrified, thousands (at least) of people gaping upward in disbelief. Autos bumper to bumper, smoking, clanking. In short, I gave Vulcan something to be scared about. All wasted effort! - From that point on Barks stopped making half-page splashes...
That's strange, given how he seemed eager to share his discovery with the web.
A lot of people in hardcore collector circles are extremely private and in general don't want it to become public who they are and what kind of extreme rarities they are in possession of. It's very possible that whatever source Hansen obtained this panel from also had the other panels, which ended up with other private collectors, and that Hansen is keeping quiet because these other collectors don't want anyone outside their circles to know what they now have.
Nothing good is going to come out of bugging Hansen about this, please don't do so.
Personally, I kinda doubt that the source Søren got his panel from (six months ago or so) had the other panels. It makes more sense to me that this newly discovered panel ONCE came from a source that may have had the other panels, but that they have long since either been thrown away or (in the case of the new panel) found their way into the hands of collectors.
But even this doesn't need to be so. I mean... we know that the still-missing panels were cut up separately right from the beginning. It's entirely possible that an editor at Western thought, "I like this panel. I think I'll keep it", while another editor took another panel. Or maybe the other panels were just thrown away on the spot.
In any case, as far as I know, the existence of those four-and-a-half other pages from "Back to the Klondike" is due to someone at Western deciding to preserve them back when they were edited out of the story.
Hi Drakeborough, no worry, it's not that much trouble to remove an entry in Inducks. We try to double-check things if we can, and the Italian Inducks team told me to revert it after I told them about the half-page.
No, Søren Marsner Hansen didn't share any detail as far as I know. I would guess that someone kept the artwork for a long time and then died, but that's a wild guess of course. In any case, weren't the editors supposed to send the art back to Barks? I am not sure that they paid Barks at all, and seem to remember they didn't, according to Barks.
It seems from Barks record that he was paid in full for 32 pages.
The same amount of money was received for Back to the Klondike story as you can see at www.cbarks.dk/thepayments1953.htm. Not sure Western would suddenly increase Barks payment per page and then suddenly going back to the previous payment...
Hi Drakeborough, no worry, it's not that much trouble to remove an entry in Inducks. We try to double-check things if we can, and the Italian Inducks team told me to revert it after I told them about the half-page.
No, Søren Marsner Hansen didn't share any detail as far as I know. I would guess that someone kept the artwork for a long time and then died, but that's a wild guess of course. In any case, weren't the editors supposed to send the art back to Barks? I am not sure that they paid Barks at all, and seem to remember they didn't, according to Barks.
It seems from Barks record that he was paid in full for 32 pages.
The same amount of money was received for Back to the Klondike story as you can see at www.cbarks.dk/thepayments1953.htm. Not sure Western would suddenly increase Barks payment per page and then suddenly going back to the previous payment...
But what does the "** NR" behind the 5-pager "Somethin' Fishy Here" mean? That they didn't pay him for that, since it was the replacement for the 5 cut pages from "Back to the Klondike"?
The same amount of money was received for Back to the Klondike story as you can see at www.cbarks.dk/thepayments1953.htm. Not sure Western would suddenly increase Barks payment per page and then suddenly going back to the previous payment...
But what does the "** NR" behind the 5-pager "Somethin' Fishy Here" mean? That they didn't pay him for that, since it was the replacement for the 5 cut pages from "Back to the Klondike"?
Check this out as well. www.cbarks.dk/thepayslipsc.htm The **NR meaning is below in the page I pointed out in the other post.