I can't remember if this "cousin Theobald" had already been mentioned it.
Well, friends, it has been a long, long time since I have been around here. I recently got a burst of duck craze and started reading some threads here. LP , you have done a wonderful job with this tree and all this research, and so have many others here! I haven't had the time to read through this whole thread yet. It's a lot to read for someone who missed this thread when it was started.
Anyhow, I saw this scan from sim and figured that I would give some input while I'm back in these parts. I don't know how much has been said about "Cousin Theobald" in this thread yet. I did a search in the thread for "Theobald," and it doesn't appear that much has been said at all, but I easily could have missed something. I apologize in advance if I end up just repeating what others have already said.
There is a whole story (which again, may have already been mentioned here) about a certain "Uncle Theobald." I have not had the chance to read this story but have garnered information from INDUCKS and from the Picsou Wiki . This Theobald is apparently a wealthy rancher who lives elsewhere. He is related to Scrooge, Donald, Huey, Dewey, Louie, Gladstone Gander, and Ludwig von Drake. How many Theobalds are in this family, or can we merge these fellers into the same character? Behold, another Theobald arrives on the scene!
"Uncle Theobald" is also apparently the name given to an old admiral uncle of Donald's whose sailor hat is in Donald's attic. I assume this means that this Theobald is, like Scrooge's cousin Theobald in the above strip, deceased. This is from this story. I have not been able to read this one either but gleaned this information from an old family tree by Scrooge MacDuck . He once proposed that this man was the father of Moby Duck. My thought has been that this Theobald may be the same as that old sailor duck appearing in a portrait on Donald's wall in The Sign of the Triple Distelfink. I can't totally shake the feeling that there was at least one more mention of a "Theobald" in the family tree, but I'm not sure. Anyways, here's at least three instances of a "Theobald" in the family. The same individual all three times? Same drake as "Admiral Duck," as the Scrooge McDuck Wiki calls him? Again, I apologize if this is all old information.
No matter what I say or do, know that Jesus loves you.
Well, friends, it has been a long, long time since I have been around here. I recently got a burst of duck craze and started reading some threads here. LP , you have done a wonderful job with this tree and all this research, and so have many others here! I haven't had the time to read through this whole thread yet. It's a lot to read for someone who missed this thread when it was started.
Anyhow, I saw this scan from sim and figured that I would give some input while I'm back in these parts. I don't know how much has been said about "Cousin Theobald" in this thread yet. I did a search in the thread for "Theobald," and it doesn't appear that much has been said at all, but I easily could have missed something. I apologize in advance if I end up just repeating what others have already said.
There is a whole story (which again, may have already been mentioned here) about a certain "Uncle Theobald." I have not had the chance to read this story but have garnered information from INDUCKS and from the Picsou Wiki . This Theobald is apparently a wealthy rancher who lives elsewhere. He is related to Scrooge, Donald, Huey, Dewey, Louie, Gladstone Gander, and Ludwig von Drake. How many Theobalds are in this family, or can we merge these fellers into the same character? Behold, another Theobald arrives on the scene!
"Uncle Theobald" is also apparently the name given to an old admiral uncle of Donald's whose sailor hat is in Donald's attic. I assume this means that this Theobald is, like Scrooge's cousin Theobald in the above strip, deceased. This is from this story. I have not been able to read this one either but gleaned this information from an old family tree by Scrooge MacDuck . He once proposed that this man was the father of Moby Duck. My thought has been that this Theobald may be the same as that old sailor duck appearing in a portrait on Donald's wall in The Sign of the Triple Distelfink. I can't totally shake the feeling that there was at least one more mention of a "Theobald" in the family tree, but I'm not sure. Anyways, here's at least three instances of a "Theobald" in the family. The same individual all three times? Same drake as "Admiral Duck," as the Scrooge McDuck Wiki calls him? Again, I apologize if this is all old information.
Welcome back, Moose!
I believe all three Theobalds have been accounted for on the tree. First off, Scrooge's cousin Theobald (the dead one from the strip that Sim posted) is on the tree as the son of one of Fergus' brothers.
Secondly, the uncle Theobald is also on the tree, but as Scrooge's second cousin (Quagmire McDuck's grandson). I believe this is because the Picsou Wiki states that this Theobald is a distant uncle of Scrooge, rather than an uncle. Don't know which option is better.
Thirdly, Donald's uncle Teobaldo is on the tree as one of Humperdink Duck's many brothers.
I'm hesitant to put in background portraits if there's no information associated with them. Speculation is fun, but I'd prefer to have the tree rooted in "facts" if possible.
I believe all three Theobalds have been accounted for on the tree. First off, Scrooge's cousin Theobald (the dead one from the strip that Sim posted) is on the tree as the son of one of Fergus' brothers.
Secondly, the uncle Theobald is also on the tree, but as Scrooge's second cousin (Quagmire McDuck's grandson). I believe this is because the Picsou Wiki states that this Theobald is a distant uncle of Scrooge, rather than an uncle. Don't know which option is better.
Thirdly, Donald's uncle Teobaldo is on the tree as one of Humperdink Duck's many brothers.
I'm hesitant to put in background portraits if there's no information associated with them. Speculation is fun, but I'd prefer to have the tree rooted in "facts" if possible.
Excellent! LP, you really have done a great job here! This tree is so massive and feels so complete. This will be a great reference for Duck relatives for all present and future fans of Duck genealogy!
No matter what I say or do, know that Jesus loves you.
Excellent! LP, you really have done a great job here! This tree is so massive and feels so complete. This will be a great reference for Duck relatives for all present and future fans of Duck genealogy!
You're too kind! I just wish I'd kept a record of the stories where every relative originates from. But I don't know how to document it in an accessible manner. Maybe I could do some sort of Google Drive-excel document/spreadsheet thing... That would have to be some other time though.
Excellent! LP, you really have done a great job here! This tree is so massive and feels so complete. This will be a great reference for Duck relatives for all present and future fans of Duck genealogy!
You're too kind! I just wish I'd kept a record of the stories where every relative originates from. But I don't know how to document it in an accessible manner. Maybe I could do some sort of Google Drive-excel document/spreadsheet thing... That would have to be some other time though.
A Google Spreadsheet sounds like a good idea to me! (A part of me cringes that some other solution to store knowledge about all Duck relatives than, well, the Scrooge McDuck Wiki, is needed… but it's my own ruddy fault for having bit off more than I could chew with the Wiki, leading it to its present somewhat-dormant, still very incomplete state. Someday… someday…!…)
Also from Quel tesoro di Cornelius, we've discussed the potential appearance of a Gearloose and a Goose ancestor. In the Swedish version, the Gearloose ancestor is named "Jockimedes Johansson", sharing his surname with Gyro (whose Swedish name is "Oppfinnar-Jocke Johansson").
However, the potential Goose ancestor is named "Måns Gåsafjun" (Gåsafjun = Goose fuzz), whereas Gus Goose's Swedish name is "Mårten Gås" (Gås = Goose). I find it annoying that there is a slight change in surname. As a result, I'm hesitant about including Måns Gåsafjun in the tree.
A final thing worth noticing is that the Gearloose ancestor implies that his pioneer team (which includes Cornelius Coot and Måns Gåsafjun) originates from Scotland. "Guys! I'm planning old Scottish games for tonight! Do you want to join the caber toss?"
So the Coots and Gearlooses (and potentially the Gooses) might have originally come from Scotland. I thought that was interesting. Anyways, I'll be back with more soon-ish.
Also from Quel tesoro di Cornelius, we've discussed the potential appearance of a Gearloose and a Goose ancestor. In the Swedish version, the Gearloose ancestor is named "Jockimedes Johansson", sharing his surname with Gyro (whose Swedish name is "Oppfinnar-Jocke Johansson").
However, the potential Goose ancestor is named "Måns Gåsafjun" (Gåsafjun = Goose fuzz), whereas Gus Goose's Swedish name is "Mårten Gås" (Gås = Goose). I find it annoying that there is a slight change in surname. As a result, I'm hesitant about including Måns Gåsafjun in the tree.
A final thing worth noticing is that the Gearloose ancestor implies that his pioneer team (which includes Cornelius Coot and Måns Gåsafjun) originates from Scotland. "Guys! I'm planning old Scottish games for tonight! Do you want to join the caber toss?"
So the Coots and Gearlooses (and potentially the Gooses) might have originally come from Scotland. I thought that was interesting. Anyways, I'll be back with more soon-ish.
I've already talked about this story in a previous post. In the original version there are no mention of those characters being ancestors of their modern counterparts, other than the similar look (but if you use this rule, there are tons of other characters that should be related, too). In italian the surnames are in no way similar to GY's. Pioneers-time are "Archie Meed" and "Sommersby" (yes, the clock's one and the log's are supposed to be 2 different GY's lookalikes), while GY is "Archimede Pitagorico". I thought you wouldn't follow translations parentage, since sometimes those are added or modified by the translators.
Been finally reading through some of these pages and wanted to add a couple of things:
Regarding the canonicity of "Scrooge's sister Evelyn" - I don't believe that she is entirely a translation-made character, but I'd love to hear from anyone who has read the story in its original language. I made a whole thread about the genealogical issue here over three years ago as the thought of Scrooge having a sister other than Matilda or Hortense was astounding and status quo-shattering to Rosa-influenced me. What we were able to gather from the research in that thread is that the story revolves around Donald inheriting some wealth from a deceased aunt but only on the condition that he tend to her beloved cat. We theorized that the reason that one Duck genealogist placed her as Scrooge's sister maybe had something to do with a comment in the story about Donald being her "only nephew," which would presumably place her on the McDuck side rather than the Duck side, where she would have Gladstone, Fethry, and others as nephews. Has anyone here read the original of that story? I'd love to hear some confirmation regarding what the original said about her. From what I can tell though, there must be some aunt of Donald's who died to kick off the plot of Feline Felony, but the questions remaining would be if her name is really Evelyn and if there are any firm indicators as to where on the family tree she belongs.
On another note... WOW! Clinton, Casey, and Gertrude Coot have all appeared in a story? And Goosetave has appeared or will be appearing in one? What a time to be a Duck family tree fan! Also, the story stating that Clinton managed the farm, followed by Casey, and followed by Gertrude would imply (from aRosa-conforming perspective) that both Casey and Gertrude died sometime between 1899 when Casey sold Killmule Hill to Scrooge and 1902 when Scrooge arrives in Duckburg and Grandma already has her farm (or maybe it is a different farm from the one that she runs now?). That's kind of sad to think about, but I also just happened to make a thread about that very topic over three years ago, too. What Happened to Grandma Duck's Parents?
No matter what I say or do, know that Jesus loves you.
Been finally reading through some of these pages and wanted to add a couple of things:
Regarding the canonicity of "Scrooge's sister Evelyn" - I don't believe that she is entirely a translation-made character, but I'd love to hear from anyone who has read the story in its original language. I made a whole thread about the genealogical issue here over three years ago as the thought of Scrooge having a sister other than Matilda or Hortense was astounding and status quo-shattering to Rosa-influenced me. What we were able to gather from the research in that thread is that the story revolves around Donald inheriting some wealth from a deceased aunt but only on the condition that he tend to her beloved cat. We theorized that the reason that one Duck genealogist placed her as Scrooge's sister maybe had something to do with a comment in the story about Donald being her "only nephew," which would presumably place her on the McDuck side rather than the Duck side, where she would have Gladstone, Fethry, and others as nephews. Has anyone here read the original of that story? I'd love to hear some confirmation regarding what the original said about her. From what I can tell though, there must be some aunt of Donald's who died to kick off the plot of Feline Felony, but the questions remaining would be if her name is really Evelyn and if there are any firm indicators as to where on the family tree she belongs.
In the story, Donald is the sole relative of the aunt, which is called Paperalfonsina (literally "Alphonsine Duck") in the Italian version. She is said to have been very rich, but no connection with Scrooge is made (and he probably would have been her relative as well, being her brother). I don't know what to make of this aunt and I wonder what the name in the English reprint was, but those DDFL issues are pretty rare.
On another note... WOW! Clinton, Casey, and Gertrude Coot have all appeared in a story? And Goosetave has appeared or will be appearing in one? What a time to be a Duck family tree fan! Also, the story stating that Clinton managed the farm, followed by Casey, and followed by Gertrude would imply (from aRosa-conforming perspective) that both Casey and Gertrude died sometime between 1899 when Casey sold Killmule Hill to Scrooge and 1902 when Scrooge arrives in Duckburg and Grandma already has her farm (or maybe it is a different farm from the one that she runs now?). That's kind of sad to think about, but I also just happened to make a thread about that very topic over three years ago, too. What Happened to Grandma Duck's Parents?
Italian authors seem to be very respecting of Rosa's work. In the last few issues of Topolino, some characters of the likes of Glittering Goldie and Soapy Slick also made a comeback. Regarding Goosetave, he appeared in this published story, which I have talked about it here, posting a few panels from it and the general storyline.
Grandma already has her farm (or maybe it is a different farm from the one that she runs now?)
It's a different farm, yes — right at the base of Killmotormule Hill, unlike her modern-day farm which is clearly not in the middle of the city centre!
In the story, Donald is the sole relative of the aunt, which is called Paperalfonsina (literally "Alphonsine Duck") in the Italian version. She is said to have been very rich, but no connection with Scrooge is made (and he probably would have been her relative as well, being her brother). I don't know what to make of this aunt and I wonder what the name in the English reprint was, but those DDFL issues are pretty rare.
On another note... WOW! Clinton, Casey, and Gertrude Coot have all appeared in a story? And Goosetave has appeared or will be appearing in one? What a time to be a Duck family tree fan! Also, the story stating that Clinton managed the farm, followed by Casey, and followed by Gertrude would imply (from aRosa-conforming perspective) that both Casey and Gertrude died sometime between 1899 when Casey sold Killmule Hill to Scrooge and 1902 when Scrooge arrives in Duckburg and Grandma already has her farm (or maybe it is a different farm from the one that she runs now?). That's kind of sad to think about, but I also just happened to make a thread about that very topic over three years ago, too. What Happened to Grandma Duck's Parents?
Italian authors seem to be very respecting of Rosa's work. In the last few issues of Topolino, some characters of the likes of Glittering Goldie and Soapy Slick also made a comeback. Regarding Goosetave, he appeared in this published story, which I have talked about it here, posting a few panels from it and the general storyline.
Thank you so much, sim, for the information about Feline Felony! I have obviously wanted to know about this story for literal years by now. "Sole relative" obviously seems to imply that Scrooge is not her brother, but she also can't be on Grandma Duck's side of the family. Either Carlo Chendi did not have any real, specific relation in mind, or maybe the thought was that Grandma, Scrooge, Gladstone, etc. are all on the same side of Donald's family (possibly going with the "Scrooge and Grandma as siblings" thing) while this Aunt Alphonsine was on other side of Donald's family. Makes it perhaps a bit hard to fit her onto an inclusive family tree like LP's.
The Goosetave story is already published? That's great! I hope I can read it sometime soon. Thank you for all this information!
Grandma already has her farm (or maybe it is a different farm from the one that she runs now?)
It's a different farm, yes — right at the base of Killmotormule Hill, unlike her modern-day farm which is clearly not in the middle of the city centre!
Thanks for the reminder, Scrooge MacDuck. I was thinking about The Invader of Fort Duckburg while typing my post but totally forgot that the farm in it is so much closer to what will eventually be the center of a very urban Duckburg than Grandma's current farm is. That's something that we've even discussed on this forum before, I believe, but oh, this poor memory of mine...
No matter what I say or do, know that Jesus loves you.
Is it a different farm though? The Sign of the Triple Distelfink establishes that Grandma has had the same barn since Daphne was born, which was some twenty years before Invader. Invader isn't at all internally consistent on Duckburg geography. In some panels, the farm is literally on the foot on the hill, while on others the hill is far away in the distance, maybe as much as a few miles out, considering its size. Which is also inconsistent. Fort Duckburg on the top is considerably smaller than Scrooge's bin occupying the same space half a year later. And we know for a fact that the hill wasn't flattened in the process of building the bin, since that would destroy the basis for stories like Guardians of the Lost Library.
Last Edit: Aug 5, 2022 16:50:20 GMT by That Duckfan
Is it a different farm though? The Sign of the Triple Distelfink establishes that Grandma has had the same barn since Daphne was born, which was some twenty years before Invader. Invader isn't at all internally consistent on Duckburg geography. In some panels, the farm is literally on the foot on the hill, while on others the hill is far away in the distance, maybe as much as a few miles out, considering its size. Which is also inconsistent. Fort Duckburg on the top is considerably smaller than Scrooge's bin occupying the same space half a year later. And we know for a fact that the hill wasn't flattened in the process of building the bin, since that would destroy the basis for stories like Guardians of the Lost Library.
Hmm. Well-observed. It's a bit odd — and rather unlike Don Rosa to have left such a conspicuous nuts-and-bolts ambiguity unanswered. I think my assumption has been that the Duck farming operation in the pre-Invader era was a fairly huge thing, with multiple sets of houses and barns, already including (but far from being limited to) the smaller portion that we see the elderly Grandma Duck still operating in the present day. So she did not so much move farms, as that the farm got smaller — and she stopped using the farmhouse at the bottom of Killmule Hill as the primary farmhouse, switching to a building further out, on the outskirts of what would become the city.
This… probably doesn't make a lot of sense scale-wise, depending on how large we assume Duckburg to be, and how off-centre vs. actually in the geometric centre the "city centre" is. But it's my story, and I'm stickin' to it!
Is it a different farm though? The Sign of the Triple Distelfink establishes that Grandma has had the same barn since Daphne was born, which was some twenty years before Invader. Invader isn't at all internally consistent on Duckburg geography. In some panels, the farm is literally on the foot on the hill, while on others the hill is far away in the distance, maybe as much as a few miles out, considering its size. Which is also inconsistent. Fort Duckburg on the top is considerably smaller than Scrooge's bin occupying the same space half a year later. And we know for a fact that the hill wasn't flattened in the process of building the bin, since that would destroy the basis for stories like Guardians of the Lost Library.
Hmm. Well-observed. It's a bit odd — and rather unlike Don Rosa to have left such a conspicuous nuts-and-bolts ambiguity unanswered. I think my assumption has been that the Duck farming operation in the pre-Invader era was a fairly huge thing, with multiple sets of houses and barns, already including (but far from being limited to) the smaller portion that we see the elderly Grandma Duck still operating in the present day. So she did not so much move farms, as that the farm got smaller — and she stopped using the farmhouse at the bottom of Killmule Hill as the primary farmhouse, switching to a building further out, on the outskirts of what would become the city.
This… probably doesn't make a lot of sense scale-wise, depending on how large we assume Duckburg to be, and how off-centre vs. actually in the geometric centre the "city centre" is. But it's my story, and I'm stickin' to it!
I mean, Invader also suggests that you can see right into Duckburg harbor from the top of Killmotor Hill, which I also find hard to believe. I can see why it all had to fit together to tell the story, and Triple Distelfink only came along years later.
I would say it's the same farm, but the story is compressed and the hill is quite a way away. That say, you could see it from Grandma's place in the old days: Duckburg isn't equally sprawling in each direction, so there are some relatively rural parts close to the city. (If you asked me, that sounds like something Grandma negotiated with Scrooge in person!)
Initially I dismissed the idea of Scrooge moving Grandma's farm to somewhere far out of town, but it's not unheard of either -- and it seems like a Scroogean type of solution!