It does indeed seem like the farm was larger back in the day than it is in "the present". Case in point, this panel from Life & Times chapter 12:
Maybe the farm used to be large enough to extend from Quackby/Quacktown/the outskirts of Duckburg to the foot of Killmule Hill? But then, sometime in between 1930 and 1942, Elvira sold most of her land to Scrooge and only kept the farmland on the outskirts of town.
Anyways, I pulled the relevant panels from Invader which shows the farm in relation to Killmule Hill. It is really only the fifth panel shown below in which the proximity between the two are definite. The third panel does imply that the farm is just at the foot of the hill. However, the farm could still be located in the outskirts of town as long as the farm is downhill from the foot of the hill. Also, I just realized that in the third panel, we can see what appears to be another farm in the horizon, in what would be the outskirts of "present day" Duckburg. Maybe this part of the farm is the one used by Elvira in "the present"?
I should also add that I don't see any problems with Invader placing Killmule/Killmotor Hill close to the sea. Has it ever been established that the Money Bin should be the absolute center of Duckburg?
While I find this geography interesting, maybe this discussion should be continued in another thread? This thread should be about genealogy after all!
It does indeed seem like the farm was larger back in the day than it is in "the present". Case in point, this panel from Life & Times chapter 12:
Maybe the farm used to be large enough to extend from Quackby/Quacktown/the outskirts of Duckburg to the foot of Killmule Hill? But then, sometime in between 1930 and 1942, Elvira sold most of her land to Scrooge and only kept the farmland on the outskirts of town.
Anyways, I pulled the relevant panels from Invader which shows the farm in relation to Killmule Hill. It is really only the fifth panel shown below in which the proximity between the two are definite. The third panel does imply that the farm is just at the foot of the hill. However, the farm could still be located in the outskirts of town as long as the farm is downhill from the foot of the hill. Also, I just realized that in the third panel, we can see what appears to be another farm in the horizon, in what would be the outskirts of "present day" Duckburg. Maybe this part of the farm is the one used by Elvira in "the present"?
I should also add that I don't see any problems with Invader placing Killmule/Killmotor Hill close to the sea. Has it ever been established that the Money Bin should be the absolute center of Duckburg?
While I find this geography interesting, maybe this discussion should be continued in another thread? This thread should be about genealogy after all!
Before Don Rosa, Carl Barks' story Money Stairs also places Scrooge's money bin not so far from the harbor. Rosa used several details and information created by Barks to create a more cohesive Duckburg and this was one fun detail. But making Grandma Duck to descendant of Cornelius Coot was Rosa's idea (and now recently I've been interested in how Rosa ended up with this particular result and why).
Last Edit: Aug 10, 2022 14:55:50 GMT by Daniel Maline
Before Don Rosa, Carl Barks' story Money Stairs also places Scrooge's money bin not so far from the harbor. Rosa used several details and information created by Barks to create a more cohesive Duckburg and this was one fun detail. But making Grandma Duck to descendant of Cornelius Coot was Rosa's idea (and now recently I've been interested in how Rosa ended up with this particular result and why).
Your image appears to be broken, but yes, the harbor is right outside the window of the Bin in that story! (Even though that part of the story is just a dream, but still!)
Here's what Rosa has to say about the Grandma Duck-Cornelius Coot connection in The Don Rosa Library #5:
Before Don Rosa, Carl Barks' story Money Stairs also places Scrooge's money bin not so far from the harbor. Rosa used several details and information created by Barks to create a more cohesive Duckburg and this was one fun detail. But making Grandma Duck to descendant of Cornelius Coot was Rosa's idea (and now recently I've been interested in how Rosa ended up with this particular result and why).
Your image appears to be broken, but yes, the harbor is right outside the window of the Bin in that story! (Even though that part of the story is just a dream, but still!)
Here's what Rosa has to say about the Grandma Duck-Cornelius Coot connection in The Don Rosa Library #5:
This is exactly what I thought and wrote in this article for the Danish Rappet:
As it is known, Rosa places Cornelius Coot as Grandma’s grandfather in his tree and stories and, since he has always been very respectful to Barks’ work, this choice may seem kind of out of place at first, but I guess his reasoning could be easily rebuilt. In fact, Barks himself introduced a cousin of the Ducks named Cuthbert Coot in Webfooted Wrangler (W WDC 55-02) and mentioned another “cousin Coot” (maybe the same one, even if not shown) in Pearls of Wisdom (W WDC 97-02). Thus, Donald’s cousin having the same surname as the Duckburg’s founder has probably led Rosa thinking they could be somehow related
I read Archimede e l'idea luminosa the other day (the story with Alex Gearloose) and found that Gyro describes Alex as a "distant relative" of his (at least in the Swedish translation). I currently have Alex placed as Gyro's grandfather's brother, but that isn't very distant. I therefore propose a more distant alternative: Alex is Descates' son. Thoughts on this?
I read Archimede e l'idea luminosa the other day (the story with Alex Gearloose) and found that Gyro describes Alex as a "distant relative" of his (at least in the Swedish translation). I currently have Alex placed as Gyro's grandfather's brother, but that isn't very distant. I therefore propose a more distant alternative: Alex is Descates' son. Thoughts on this?
Alex Gearloose (named "Alex Pitagorico" in the Italian version) is introduced by Gyro as "un lontano prozio appartenente al ramo europeo della mia famiglia!" ("a distant granduncle belonging to the European branch of my family!")
Alex Gearloose (named "Alex Pitagorico" in the Italian version) is introduced by Gyro as "un lontano prozio appartenente al ramo europeo della mia famiglia!" ("a distant granduncle belonging to the European branch of my family!")
Ah, okay! There's no mention of any European branch in the Swedish version! Where do you think Alex fits best?
I have a vaguely family-related question, I hope it's ok if I ask it here. In this Danish story, Gladstone has a cousin named Fræk Drøjben. Does this name "mean" anything in Danish? Is it a pun, does it contain a cultural reference of some kind?
I have a vaguely family-related question, I hope it's ok if I ask it here. In this Danish story, Gladstone has a cousin named Fræk Drøjben. Does this name "mean" anything in Danish? Is it a pun, does it contain a cultural reference of some kind?
That's Disraeli Duck. I believe I have him as "Disraeli Grebe" on the tree, as "Grebe" is the English translation of his original name.
I don't know Danish, but Danish and Swedish are pretty similar. In Swedish, the homophone "fräck" can mean "rude" or "mean", and according to Google Translate, the same is true for the Danish counterpart. "Drøjben" is a pun on "Højben"; Gladstone's surname in Danish. Literally, "Drøjben" means something like "slow leg", while "Højben" means "high leg". However, I assume there is an additional level of punning here that I'm not familiar with, though.
I have a vaguely family-related question, I hope it's ok if I ask it here. In this Danish story, Gladstone has a cousin named Fræk Drøjben. Does this name "mean" anything in Danish? Is it a pun, does it contain a cultural reference of some kind?
That's Disraeli Duck. I believe I have him as "Disraeli Grebe" on the tree, as "Grebe" is the English translation of his original name.
I don't know Danish, but Danish and Swedish are pretty similar. In Swedish, the homophone "fräck" can mean "rude" or "mean", and according to Google Translate, the same is true for the Danish counterpart. "Drøjben" is a pun on "Højben"; Gladstone's surname in Danish. Literally, "Drøjben" means something like "slow leg", while "Højben" means "high leg". However, I assume there is an additional level of punning here that I'm not familiar with, though.
Yep, I knew of his English name, although I kinda wonder why they went with the surname "Duck" here instead of something unique, and why they chose "Disraeli" too. Perhaps our dear Ramapith could tell us?
That's Disraeli Duck. I believe I have him as "Disraeli Grebe" on the tree, as "Grebe" is the English translation of his original name.
I don't know Danish, but Danish and Swedish are pretty similar. In Swedish, the homophone "fräck" can mean "rude" or "mean", and according to Google Translate, the same is true for the Danish counterpart. "Drøjben" is a pun on "Højben"; Gladstone's surname in Danish. Literally, "Drøjben" means something like "slow leg", while "Højben" means "high leg". However, I assume there is an additional level of punning here that I'm not familiar with, though.
Yep, I knew of his English name, although I kinda wonder why they went with the surname "Duck" here instead of something unique, and why they chose "Disraeli" too. Perhaps our dear Ramapith could tell us?
I think I know the answer to the second one! Gladstone's most famous namesake is William Ewart Gladstone, 19th century leader of the Liberal Party and four times Prime Minister of the United Kingdom. The rivalry between Gladstone and his Conservative counterpart, Benjamin Disraeli, the Earl of Beaconsfield, was legendary in its day.
Funny enough, Disraeli was much more like Gladstone the goose than Gladstone the man was, he was a social gadfly and a darling of Queen Victoria. Gladstone was a very pious man, filled with that Victorian paternalistic self-righteousness that commanded the British Empire.
Yep, I knew of his English name, although I kinda wonder why they went with the surname "Duck" here instead of something unique, and why they chose "Disraeli" too. Perhaps our dear Ramapith could tell us?
I think I know the answer to the second one! Gladstone's most famous namesake is William Ewart Gladstone, 19th century leader of the Liberal Party and four times Prime Minister of the United Kingdom. The rivalry between Gladstone and his Conservative counterpart, Benjamin Disraeli, the Earl of Beaconsfield, was legendary in its day.
Funny enough, Disraeli was much more like Gladstone the goose than Gladstone the man was, he was a social gadfly and a darling of Queen Victoria. Gladstone was a very pious man, filled with that Victorian paternalistic self-righteousness that commanded the British Empire.
Ah yes, very interesting! So, if we translate from the original Danish, this guy is basically called "Meanie The-Opposite-of-Gladstone."
This time, I haven't kept track on everything I've updated. I started editing the tree a few weeks ago and didn't finish until now. But it's pretty much just the stuff we've been talking about. Some changes worth mentioning:
I've moved Alex Gearloose from Ratchet's brother to Grandflop's son. Alex is supposed to be from the European branch of the family. I haven't read the story in which Grandflop appears, so I'm not sure if he's supposed to be European. However, I've seen a few panels and the backgrounds look European enough for me to take a chance until someone tells me otherwise.
Also on the Gearloose-side of the tree, I realized that Gustave Gearloose is supposed to be in his late 20s-early 30s in 1792. In addition, I assume Benjamin Gearloose is supposed to have lived during the same time as Benjamin Franklin (1706-1791). I have therefore inserted an extra generation between the two.
Speaking of Gustave Gearloose, he is supposed to be contemporary and the same age as the Donald look-a-like Aaldert van Duck, yet he is now one generation below Aaldert. This is simply because of the fact that Scrooge McDuck is much older than Hortense, and also Hortense procreated very late in her generation, causing a "long" generation, which in turn caused a chain reaction resulting in the generations appearing desynchronized. I could fix this, but then I would have to restructure the whole tree, and by this point it's too cluttered, so... Basically, don't worry about it. It's fine.
Also, I was informed elsewhere about Donald's Danish ancestor Donaldus and his wife, appearing in Donaldus' Locket. Donaldus is from 1708 in the story and appears to be around Donald's age. Therefore he was probably born around 1680. Maybe Donaldus could be the father of Donald the Red or his wife? If this is the case, Donaldus and his wife are just barely outside of the tree. Maybe I'll extend the tree vertically one generation for the next update, just to fit these in.
The riemersion of Daisy relatives' thread made me research some branch of this ultimate tree that made me scratch the head for a lot of time. Specifically the o'Fly branch. I remembered that story, and my memory always conflicted on how it was represented in the tree. So to put an end to this confusion, I went and re-read the story on the original Topolino, with particular attention to particulars that could help define the genealogy.
First of all: while never explicitly stated, we know that Paperina o'Fly is an ancestor (antenata) of current day Daisy, since she is the protagonist of this episode of the serie Dai diari delle antenate (From the ancestors' diaries), which is about different Daisy's ancestors. So from her, we can start to connect all the others characters to the main cast.
Another character who is easy to connect is Paperone o'Fly, which Paperina o'Fly calls uncle (zio) multiple times (6, to be precise).
Next character, instead, is more tricky. The Gyro-lookalike is called Archie o'Fly, so we can suppose a relationship of some sort. But he also refers to Paperone (the only time that he does) by name, instead of saying "uncle"/"whatever they are related" like the others character. Maybe it meant nothing, but it is particular how he is the only one to not calling him "uncle". If it wasn't for the same surname, in the same story, with such a limited cast, I wouldn't consider they being related more then a theory, but since it is, I say it is more than probable they are.
The last character to study is Paperino, the Donald-lookalike. Unfortunately we don't know his surname. Every tree about this story place him as Paperina's partner, outside of the o'Fly family. But reading the story I don't see any reason why. He refers to Paperone as "uncle" for 3 times, so it seems to me much more probable that he is a nephew of him, and so an o'Fly (from mother or father). One could argue against it by bringing the panel where Paperina convince him by making sweet eyes and hearts over her head, and so they are in a relationship, plausibly banning a first cousin incest. But we also see Paperina making heart-shaped eyes and bubbles for an airplane, with which she probably doesn't have intercourse. In every other panel the relationship between Paperino and Paperina is shown nothing different than platonic, not much different than that between Paperina and Archie. So, personally, I don't see the two as a couple, but more as relatives.
What all this means for the tree? Not as much as I thought before I reread the story. The major difference is Paperino, in my opinion. The industry o'Fly seems much of a family-run company, and from the first pages we learn that Paperino knew Paperina since when she was little. Another possible change depends on the approach we want to have for the tree. If we prefer a "minimal space" style, with the less possible number of made up-void characters, there is nothing in the story saying that Paperina and Archie (and in my opinion, Paperino too) must be cousins. They could plausibly be all siblings. (I guess the origin of this cousin-relation comes from this article showing a Daisy family tree from xanderares, which refers to this other article about the Paperina o'Fly story).
Another, this time major, change for the tree is that the Gyro-lookalike Archie is, in no way in the story, stated to be related to current day Gyro. I don't know if you traced the relation from some successive story of article, but if not you shouldn't probably connect the two only because they are drawn the same, otherwise there are tons of others historical lookalikes that should be added to the tree.
Fun facts: * the story is placed in the 1903, in the country around Duckburg ("Paperopoli"). The place is also near a sea.
* While often interesting and discussing some niche topics, xanderares's articles are often wrong on some facts, or mix official informations with fan-made facts (an example for the latter is the whole "Via col Vento" section. It made up all the names and likeness of Donald Butler and Paperella o'Hara's parents, but doesn't mention neither her aunt Polly or her grandfather, both mentioned and/or appearing in the story) (example for the former, instead, is this other article about "A tree for free" story. It claims that the story in the original language mention a great-great-grandfather of Daisy named Pamfilius Duck, plus in an edit says that in an english translation he is named Jason Duck. I went and check the first print of the story, directly from 1962, and no, he isn't Daisy gr-gr-grandpa, nor he is called Pamfilius/Jason. Instead he is Da "great, great uncle" like in the italian version)
Thanks for all this info, Farmspirit! I had hoped that the Generation Duck blog was trustworthy, but apparently not. But, this is partly why this thread exist: so that we can discard misinformation! I'll clean up the tree and post an update soon enough!