Question for LP: I realized there's actually one more character from Gilles' tree that doesn't seem to be on yours - a very crabby duck in a pointy hat who is called "Paperonacchio" on that tree. Was he legitimately missed, is he on your tree under another name, or is he too far back? Thanks.
Question for LP: I realized there's actually one more character from Gilles' tree that doesn't seem to be on yours - a very crabby duck in a pointy hat who is called "Paperonacchio" on that tree. Was he legitimately missed, is he on your tree under another name, or is he too far back? Thanks.
I believe Paperonacchio is the same guy as this: picsou wiki link. In that case, he would be much older than Titus "Dingus" McDuck's uncle (as he is on Gilles Maurice's tree). But as our tree currently strives to reach further back than the 1700s, he should be there somewhere. Probably on the American MacDuck-branch.
I made a simplified tree (without a lot of cousins) to show how the connection around Scrooge/Rockerduck in a new version of the tree could look like. Is this something that would be in agreement with the sources?
Question for LP: I realized there's actually one more character from Gilles' tree that doesn't seem to be on yours - a very crabby duck in a pointy hat who is called "Paperonacchio" on that tree. Was he legitimately missed, is he on your tree under another name, or is he too far back? Thanks.
I believe Paperonacchio is the same guy as this: picsou wiki link. In that case, he would be much older than Titus "Dingus" McDuck's uncle (as he is on Gilles Maurice's tree). But as our tree currently strives to reach further back than the 1700s, he should be there somewhere. Probably on the American MacDuck-branch.
So, just a quick update: As has been requested, I wanted to go back through the tree and add the names that were known in other languages. Initially, I tried adding them in another column on the main tree - it has become clear, however, that that's not really feasible.
I decided that the best course of action would be to do a separate page. The idea I have in mind is to list the characters by their tree name and origin, followed by multiple columns for each language.
I've been looking at separate names on INDUCKS - as the character pages have names in other languages listed. These are the only source I'd have for the majority of these alternate names, so I'd have to assume that they're accurate, despite the fact that there have been mistakes on INDUCKS before - should I mark them somehow as being pulled from INDUCKS?
There's also the question of sources for these names; it's fine for characters that only have one appearance, but how about the likes of Huey, Dewey and Louie? It would be inordinately difficult to get a verified source for the first appearance of every time their names are used in every available language - however, at the same time, there's the question of verifying where the name comes from, right? Just as an example, Pepper Gosling from the tree - INDUCKS gives names for him in multiple languages, including Greek; however, his first appearance was only published in Italy and Portugal. He did, however, have a second appearance, which is where the names from the other languages come from. As such, should we try to have a verification list for these names? It would be a tall order, but it's the only way to be totally certain.
There's also the question of 'Occasional Names' and 'Alternative/Old Names' - thankfully, INDUCKS does provide sources for these ones. Is it worth adding these names, too? If so, do we make any kind of distinction? INDUCKS doesn't really seem to make one - what makes it more confusing is that some of the names are the only ones listed for a certain language: for example, Newton's page. There are multiple Dutch names listed in the 'Occasional Names' section, but no Dutch names in the 'Most Common Name' section. And if we choose not to include certain names, how do we decide which ones to include and which not?
Final point of question on the subject - should I include every single language included on INDUCKS? It's simple enough for some characters, but ones like Donald have a multitude of languages listed. I'm fine including the lot, but just want to be certain before I really dig in
Resident autistic, diabetic duck fan.
I love hearing about bizarre/obscure Disney works - recommendations welcome!
So, just a quick update: As has been requested, I wanted to go back through the tree and add the names that were known in other languages. Initially, I tried adding them in another column on the main tree - it has become clear, however, that that's not really feasible.
I decided that the best course of action would be to do a separate page. The idea I have in mind is to list the characters by their tree name and origin, followed by multiple columns for each language.
I've been looking at separate names on INDUCKS - as the character pages have names in other languages listed. These are the only source I'd have for the majority of these alternate names, so I'd have to assume that they're accurate, despite the fact that there have been mistakes on INDUCKS before - should I mark them somehow as being pulled from INDUCKS?
There's also the question of sources for these names; it's fine for characters that only have one appearance, but how about the likes of Huey, Dewey and Louie? It would be inordinately difficult to get a verified source for the first appearance of every time their names are used in every available language - however, at the same time, there's the question of verifying where the name comes from, right? Just as an example, Pepper Gosling from the tree - INDUCKS gives names for him in multiple languages, including Greek; however, his first appearance was only published in Italy and Portugal. He did, however, have a second appearance, which is where the names from the other languages come from. As such, should we try to have a verification list for these names? It would be a tall order, but it's the only way to be totally certain.
There's also the question of 'Occasional Names' and 'Alternative/Old Names' - thankfully, INDUCKS does provide sources for these ones. Is it worth adding these names, too? If so, do we make any kind of distinction? INDUCKS doesn't really seem to make one - what makes it more confusing is that some of the names are the only ones listed for a certain language: for example, Newton's page. There are multiple Dutch names listed in the 'Occasional Names' section, but no Dutch names in the 'Most Common Name' section. And if we choose not to include certain names, how do we decide which ones to include and which not?
Final point of question on the subject - should I include every single language included on INDUCKS? It's simple enough for some characters, but ones like Donald have a multitude of languages listed. I'm fine including the lot, but just want to be certain before I really dig in
It is a lot of work to find all names of all characters in all languages, especially if you would want to verify all these names. So, maybe it is an idea to initially just focus on those languages that are (arguably) most relevant for making this tree, i.e. those languages in which most stories are written (English, Italian, Brazilian Portuguese, Dutch, Danish, French) or maybe translated into (Swedish, Finnish, Norwegian, German, Spanish). Moreover, the names in multiple languages are most relevant for those stories originally written in English of which we don't have the original script and/or no English publication (mostly S and D coded stories), as that are the stories that most often lead to confusion about what the name of these characters should be and that most often result in translation errors. Though it might be nice to know how those W, H and I coded stories were translated in Mandarin, Greek or Malay, it's not at all necessary to know for the purpose of making this tree
As for Newton, yeah some not so very often recuring characters have different names in every other story, because the translator was probably not aware that they already had a name in another story (or they didn't bother about it). So, then there is not really a most common name.
Relatives that only have a non-English name, are now color-coded on the tree.
Two additional generations have been added, so there are 13 in total now. This resulted in the addition of:
Donald’s ancestor in a carriage from ZD 55-10-09 was added as the father of the ancestor on the ship.
Zamberlukko from I TL 1315-A was added as the father of Donaldus.
Gappo Buonasorte from I TL 3058-2 was added as an ancestor of Lochbert Gander.
The McDuck ancestors from D 91308 were added as the parents/uncles/grandfather of Angus McDuck.
Long Rocker from I TL 1852-A was added as an ancestor of Rockerduck.
Paperin Stradipaperi from I TL 2089-4 was added as a grandfather of Scrooge de’Pantaloni. Paperin’s uncle Paperon Stradipaperi, and his nephews Qui, Quo and Qua, were also attached.
Paper von Paperonen and his relative from I TL 718-B were added as ancestor of Scrooge via Locksley’s unknown wife.
The following relatives have further been newly added to the tree:
Karel from H 91028 and H 91115 was added as the husband of Anna-Lina Duck.
Sergus McSissy from D 98043 was added as the son of an unknown sister of Silas McDuck.
A fifth child was added for cousin Landy from S 71377.
Sjarel from H 25127 was added as a brother of Daisy’s cousin Ko.
Gilbert Meloen from H 26018 was added as the brother of the unknown mother of Martha Bird.
Sibbe from H 95018 was added as the father of Zak McWak.
Arend-Jan from H 91152 was added as the son of Jo.
Abel from H 93089 was added by taking the position of the unknown brother of Molly Mallard.
Roderik from D 91167 was added as added as a brother of Ebenezer.
The vampire from I TL 1969-B was added as a son of Gretchen Grebe.
Paperonacchio from I AT 122-A was added as the great-grandfather of Dackmar MacDuck.
The Duchess of Duckshire from ZD 73-02-11 was added as the great-great-grandmother of Bertrand Wister. Daisy’s aunt Daphne needs to be from the same side of the family, so she was switched with aunt Truus.
The Duchess of Duckshire from W US 47-01 was added as a cousin of Bertrand.
Agapetus Duck from D 89240 was added as a brother of Daniel Donald Duck.
Elias Hazelnut from H 87180 was added as a descendant of Johannes Coot.
The following changes are related to the creation of the McPaper branch and the reorganization of the shared relatives of Scrooge and Rockerduck:
Paper McPaper was moved. He is now a brother of the unknown wife of Anatrone.
The relatives of Paper McPaper from the Gone with the Wind story are similarly connected as before, via another sister of Paper McPaper.
Paper McPaper has now an unknown son, who is the father of Red McPaper from I PM 171-3 (who is newly added). The mother of Red is a sister of Gladstone’s great-grandfather Gastone.
Jacob McPaper (previously on the tree as Jacob McDuck) from I TL 2183-5 is now a son of Red McPaper.
Paper McPaper has also a brother, who is married to a daughter of Jedediah Rockerduck. They have two children, who are the parents of Pulcheria, Gawdensia, Eider, Ocagliostro and Duckpaper.
McPaper from I TL 2345-6 was added as the great-grandfather of Paper McPaper.
Danblane McPaper was moved. He is now the grandfather of the above.
Paperozzo from I TL 375-A was also moved. He was attached as the son of Donald Butler, but he needs a complicated connection to Donald and Scrooge (otherwise he would just be a cousin). So, he is now on the tree as a grandson of Pitty.
Scrooge’s maternal grandfather Roger O’Drake is now called Zeebaars O’Drake with the picture of Zeebaars
Roger has been merged with Scrooge’s paternal great-grandfather Ebenezer, who is now called Ebenezer Roger McDuck.
Silas McDuck was given an extra brother, who has a son and a grandson (their pictures were taken from the DuckTales episode). The grandson is married to a sister of Pat Davison, with Morag McDuck as their daughter.
Some more pictures of relatives of Silas from the DuckTales episode, were used to fill in other blank spots: for the wife of Pat La Tinhas; for the mother and grandfather of Glomgold’s mother; for the mother and grandparents of Paperonk; and for the son of Potcrack. Herbert McDuck was also given a picture, so this is now a merged character.
These are the changes in the Duck branch:
Paperonzo was made a brother of Hortensia.
Asa (now without any children) was made a brother of Pataco.
Andtonius was made a son of Patagão.
Grandma Duck’s cousin Leocádia Pato (in the tree called Leocádia Duck) from B 910356 was added as a daughter of Patagão.
Leocádia’s cousin Rufus was added as a brother of Elvira.
The Trouwharts were removed. Klazien was moved to become a daughter of Patagão, so her full name becomes Klazien Duck, as it is in the published story.
Pamfilius and his supposed grandson Buckaroo “2 Gun” Duck were moved to a completely separate branch, currently not yet connected to the other Ducks.
Theobald from D 3299 was moved. He is now the son of Featherbrain.
Three relatives were removed as they seem to be translation errors:
Gyro’s aunt Agathe from D 4734.
Gladstone’s aunt Thea from D 2689.
Daisy’s uncle Ottokar from D 4067.
The three previously unsourced cousins of Daisy from W WDC 318-01 now have a source. Since they all are heiresses to the previous Queen, I moved one of the cousins to become a daughter of Azalea, so they are all at the same side of Daisy’s family. I added a box for the in the story mentioned previous Queen of Quackland. I thought it would make most sense if the crown is inherited via the female line, so I made her a daughter of a sister of Daisy’s maternal great-grandmother.
Other changes:
The reference to Donald’s great-aunt Tryntsje has been corrected. The given reference was D 94238, but she is actually mentioned in H 96260. In the Dutch version, her full name is Tryntsje Duckma, so I made her an aunt by marriage to the unnamed grand-uncle of Donald from W DD 111-01.
A reference was added for Gladstone’s grandfather.
The Duke of Paperburgh (alias the Earl of Asketty) is temporarily not on the tree. As the coin is from 1600, he should be born before that, so he should be positioned slightly further back on the tree. His descendant (the current Duke of Paperburgh) is of course still on the tree (now also named the Duke of Paperburgh).
Thusnelda from S 71019, whose actual name is Dora, was merged with Dora from YD 68-09-23. So, the Thusnelda entry was removed, and Dora got the image from S 71019.
Genoveffa was removed, as she is supposed to be the same one as Eider.
The portrait of the unknown uncle from H 26054 was assigned to Herman.
Baldo von Drake is now the son of Corvus, instead of his grandson.
In some stories that have been mentioned (I TL 2892-5, I TL 2208-6, D 9774, D 8250, D 5570, D 2008-090), there are also (maybe/probably) relatives, but since I do not know about the original, and/or the translations give contradicting information, these relatives have not been included yet.
Sir Angus McDuck´s Parents. The Caracters were made on the "Last of the Clan McDuck" at the hound of wiskersville scene. that event happend in 1495 and Angus was most certantly an 17th century Duck, witch dosent fit at all for me.
Second thing, Danblade McPaper dosent fit either for me. the English translation says he is a "McDuck" even if he is a g-g-g-g-grandfather or g-g-g-g-granduncle (as an example)
Sir Angus McDuck´s Parents. The Caracters were made on the "Last of the Clan McDuck" at the hound of wiskersville scene. that event happend in 1495 and Angus was most certantly an 17th century Duck, witch dosent fit at all for me.
Second thing, Danblade McPaper dosent fit either for me. the English translation says he is a "McDuck" even if he is a g-g-g-g-grandfather or g-g-g-g-granduncle (as an example)
I don't know where you got the year 1495 from, but in my American version of the story, Fergus talks about 1675.
As for Danblane, I put him previously as Danblane McDuck on the tree, but it was suggested to change it, because the original name is Pap McPaper.
Sir Angus McDuck´s Parents. The Caracters were made on the "Last of the Clan McDuck" at the hound of wiskersville scene. that event happend in 1495 and Angus was most certantly an 17th century Duck, witch dosent fit at all for me.
Second thing, Danblade McPaper dosent fit either for me. the English translation says he is a "McDuck" even if he is a g-g-g-g-grandfather or g-g-g-g-granduncle (as an example)
As far as I know, the 1495-date was only used in Don Rosa's unfinished sketches of Lo$ chapter 1. Chapter 1's finished version gives the year as 1675 in both it's original Uncle Scrooge #285 and Don Rosa Library #4 publications.
To adhere to the unfinished sketches rather than the published versions seems wrong to me. Angus McDuck living in Castle McDuck in 1697 is indeed impossible, but putting the McDucks' abandonment of the castle 200 years earlier doesn't solve this.
About Danblane: as discussed before, we should probably adhere to the original version of a story if the translated English version contains changes. So since Danblane's surname is different from Scrooge's in the original, it should be different on the tree too.
Speaking of which, am I misremembering or was Ringtail van Dukke's surname the same as Donald's in the original version of his story?
A while back, Donald's ancestor Tobias Duck was brought up in this thread. Based on the Dutch version, it was said that he is Donald's great-great-great-great-grandfather. I finally managed to track down Haunted Hustlers, the story in which he appears, and I have some notes about his placement. Now, worth noting is that I'm basing the following on the Swedish version of the story. While some details might differ from the original Danish version, since both the Danish and Swedish versions are made by Egmont, the Swedish version is presumably more "accurate" than the Dutch version.
Tobias is currently listed as Donald's great-great-great-great-grandfather (aka Donald's grandfather's grandfather's grandfather). However, the Swedish version is not that specific. Instead, once the ghost of Tobias tells Donald that he has been haunting a mill for 200 years, Donald says "T-then you must be my grandfather's grandfather's grandfather's... something!"
This means that Donald believes that Tobias is at least one generation further back than grandfather's grandfather's grandfather. That means, Tobias cannot be Crockett's father, but must be at least Crockett's grandfather.
Furthermore, Tobias states that he has haunted the mill for 200 years, and lived by the river for 250 years.
In addition, Donald says that Tobias is his 250-year-old ancestor.
So, from this we can deduce that Tobias was born 250 years ago, and died 200 years ago. Depending on when "now" is (either 1999, when the story was first published, or around 1950, when our tree assumes "the present" is), Tobias would have been born in either 1749 or 1700. If he was born in 1749, he could just barely be the grandfather of Crockett (presumably born 1786).
In conclusion, I'd suggest having Tobias be born in 1700 to line up with the 1950s-setting that has been assumed for the rest of the tree. I suggest having the American Revolution War-soldier be Crockett's father, having the duck meeting Native Americans be Crockett's grandfather, and finally having Tobias be Crockett's great-grandfather (and also McTavish's brother). What do you all think about that?
Sir Angus McDuck´s Parents. The Caracters were made on the "Last of the Clan McDuck" at the hound of wiskersville scene. that event happend in 1495 and Angus was most certantly an 17th century Duck, witch dosent fit at all for me.
Second thing, Danblade McPaper dosent fit either for me. the English translation says he is a "McDuck" even if he is a g-g-g-g-grandfather or g-g-g-g-granduncle (as an example)
As far as I know, the 1495-date was only used in Don Rosa's unfinished sketches of Lo$ chapter 1. Chapter 1's finished version gives the year as 1675 in both it's original Uncle Scrooge #285 and Don Rosa Library #4 publications.
To adhere to the unfinished sketches rather than the published versions seems wrong to me. Angus McDuck living in Castle McDuck in 1697 is indeed impossible, but putting the McDucks' abandonment of the castle 200 years earlier doesn't solve this.
About Danblane: as discussed before, we should probably adhere to the original version of a story if the translated English version contains changes. So since Danblane's surname is different from Scrooge's in the original, it should be different on the tree too.
Speaking of which, am I misremembering or was Ringtail van Dukke's surname the same as Donald's in the original version of his story?
You are right, even my book on Swedish says 1675. And even if his real name in italian is Pap McPaper im still (in my tree) gonna keep Danblade as either a g-g-g-g-g-g-g-g-grandfather or uncle as an example
Relatives that only have a non-English name, are now color-coded on the tree.
Two additional generations have been added, so there are 13 in total now. This resulted in the addition of:
Donald’s ancestor in a carriage from ZD 55-10-09 was added as the father of the ancestor on the ship.
Zamberlukko from I TL 1315-A was added as the father of Donaldus.
Gappo Buonasorte from I TL 3058-2 was added as an ancestor of Lochbert Gander.
The McDuck ancestors from D 91308 were added as the parents/uncles/grandfather of Angus McDuck.
Long Rocker from I TL 1852-A was added as an ancestor of Rockerduck.
Paperin Stradipaperi from I TL 2089-4 was added as a grandfather of Scrooge de’Pantaloni. Paperin’s uncle Paperon Stradipaperi, and his nephews Qui, Quo and Qua, were also attached.
Paper von Paperonen and his relative from I TL 718-B were added as ancestor of Scrooge via Locksley’s unknown wife.
The following relatives have further been newly added to the tree:
Karel from H 91028 and H 91115 was added as the husband of Anna-Lina Duck.
Sergus McSissy from D 98043 was added as the son of an unknown sister of Silas McDuck.
A fifth child was added for cousin Landy from S 71377.
Sjarel from H 25127 was added as a brother of Daisy’s cousin Ko.
Gilbert Meloen from H 26018 was added as the brother of the unknown mother of Martha Bird.
Sibbe from H 95018 was added as the father of Zak McWak.
Arend-Jan from H 91152 was added as the son of Jo.
Abel from H 93089 was added by taking the position of the unknown brother of Molly Mallard.
Roderik from D 91167 was added as added as a brother of Ebenezer.
The vampire from I TL 1969-B was added as a son of Gretchen Grebe.
Paperonacchio from I AT 122-A was added as the great-grandfather of Dackmar MacDuck.
The Duchess of Duckshire from ZD 73-02-11 was added as the great-great-grandmother of Bertrand Wister. Daisy’s aunt Daphne needs to be from the same side of the family, so she was switched with aunt Truus.
The Duchess of Duckshire from W US 47-01 was added as a cousin of Bertrand.
Agapetus Duck from D 89240 was added as a brother of Daniel Donald Duck.
Elias Hazelnut from H 87180 was added as a descendant of Johannes Coot.
The following changes are related to the creation of the McPaper branch and the reorganization of the shared relatives of Scrooge and Rockerduck:
Paper McPaper was moved. He is now a brother of the unknown wife of Anatrone.
The relatives of Paper McPaper from the Gone with the Wind story are similarly connected as before, via another sister of Paper McPaper.
Paper McPaper has now an unknown son, who is the father of Red McPaper from I PM 171-3 (who is newly added). The mother of Red is a sister of Gladstone’s great-grandfather Gastone.
Jacob McPaper (previously on the tree as Jacob McDuck) from I TL 2183-5 is now a son of Red McPaper.
Paper McPaper has also a brother, who is married to a daughter of Jedediah Rockerduck. They have two children, who are the parents of Pulcheria, Gawdensia, Eider, Ocagliostro and Duckpaper.
McPaper from I TL 2345-6 was added as the great-grandfather of Paper McPaper.
Danblane McPaper was moved. He is now the grandfather of the above.
Paperozzo from I TL 375-A was also moved. He was attached as the son of Donald Butler, but he needs a complicated connection to Donald and Scrooge (otherwise he would just be a cousin). So, he is now on the tree as a grandson of Pitty.
Scrooge’s maternal grandfather Roger O’Drake is now called Zeebaars O’Drake with the picture of Zeebaars
Roger has been merged with Scrooge’s paternal great-grandfather Ebenezer, who is now called Ebenezer Roger McDuck.
Silas McDuck was given an extra brother, who has a son and a grandson (their pictures were taken from the DuckTales episode). The grandson is married to a sister of Pat Davison, with Morag McDuck as their daughter.
Some more pictures of relatives of Silas from the DuckTales episode, were used to fill in other blank spots: for the wife of Pat La Tinhas; for the mother and grandfather of Glomgold’s mother; for the mother and grandparents of Paperonk; and for the son of Potcrack. Herbert McDuck was also given a picture, so this is now a merged character.
These are the changes in the Duck branch:
Paperonzo was made a brother of Hortensia.
Asa (now without any children) was made a brother of Pataco.
Andtonius was made a son of Patagão.
Grandma Duck’s cousin Leocádia Pato (in the tree called Leocádia Duck) from B 910356 was added as a daughter of Patagão.
Leocádia’s cousin Rufus was added as a brother of Elvira.
The Trouwharts were removed. Klazien was moved to become a daughter of Patagão, so her full name becomes Klazien Duck, as it is in the published story.
Pamfilius and his supposed grandson Buckaroo “2 Gun” Duck were moved to a completely separate branch, currently not yet connected to the other Ducks.
Theobald from D 3299 was moved. He is now the son of Featherbrain.
Three relatives were removed as they seem to be translation errors:
Gyro’s aunt Agathe from D 4734.
Gladstone’s aunt Thea from D 2689.
Daisy’s uncle Ottokar from D 4067.
The three previously unsourced cousins of Daisy from W WDC 318-01 now have a source. Since they all are heiresses to the previous Queen, I moved one of the cousins to become a daughter of Azalea, so they are all at the same side of Daisy’s family. I added a box for the in the story mentioned previous Queen of Quackland. I thought it would make most sense if the crown is inherited via the female line, so I made her a daughter of a sister of Daisy’s maternal great-grandmother.
Other changes:
The reference to Donald’s great-aunt Tryntsje has been corrected. The given reference was D 94238, but she is actually mentioned in H 96260. In the Dutch version, her full name is Tryntsje Duckma, so I made her an aunt by marriage to the unnamed grand-uncle of Donald from W DD 111-01.
A reference was added for Gladstone’s grandfather.
The Duke of Paperburgh (alias the Earl of Asketty) is temporarily not on the tree. As the coin is from 1600, he should be born before that, so he should be positioned slightly further back on the tree. His descendant (the current Duke of Paperburgh) is of course still on the tree (now also named the Duke of Paperburgh).
Thusnelda from S 71019, whose actual name is Dora, was merged with Dora from YD 68-09-23. So, the Thusnelda entry was removed, and Dora got the image from S 71019.
Genoveffa was removed, as she is supposed to be the same one as Eider.
The portrait of the unknown uncle from H 26054 was assigned to Herman.
Baldo von Drake is now the son of Corvus, instead of his grandson.
In some stories that have been mentioned (I TL 2892-5, I TL 2208-6, D 9774, D 8250, D 5570, D 2008-090), there are also (maybe/probably) relatives, but since I do not know about the original, and/or the translations give contradicting information, these relatives have not been included yet.
In conclusion, I'd suggest having Tobias be born in 1700 to line up with the 1950s-setting that has been assumed for the rest of the tree. I suggest having the American Revolution War-soldier be Crockett's father, having the duck meeting Native Americans be Crockett's grandfather, and finally having Tobias be Crockett's great-grandfather (and also McTavish's brother). What do you all think about that?
That seems reasonable to me. I had just updated the tree, so that would have to be something for the next version then Though it all depends of course if the original version is indeed the same as the Swedish one...
He is temporarily removed, until we add even more generations. As I mentioned, the coin on which he is shown in the story, is from 1600. So, he is from a slightly older generation than the currently oldest ducks on the tree.