two random questions re: French Duck names

[Matilda]

(1) What are the French names for Katie Mallard and Ducky Bird? They aren't listed on their INDUCKS character pages.

(2) How did the French names for Scrooge's two uncles (Jake and Pothole/Angus) come to be Jack and John? When the second of these two to get a French name was named, did the person who decided on his French name not know about the other uncle's French name? Or was that person not aware that Jack is a nickname for John, and the two names would be highly unlikely to be given to a pair of brothers?

I'm not even going to ask about the Picsou/McPicsou history, though I'd be happy to understand that better....

[juicymcduck]

The fist question I can answer! Katie Mallard's name remains the same in French, and her nickname "Hashknife Kate" becomes "Katie la cuillière." Ducky Bird is "Jeanne Lacane." (Note that in the first (1966) translation of the story, Katie was renamed "Laure Yfère," and Ducky went unnamed.)

The second question... Well I don't know. But I'm a bit surprised, though. Jack is a nickname for John? Isn't it a diminutive for Jacob?

Re. the McPicsou/Picsou situation, I have no definitive answer either, but here's what I can tell you. The last name Picsou was first used in the first (1956) translation of Barks's The Tuckered Tiger, albeit with the first name "Omer." Now, at the time, The Old Castle's Secret had already been published in France once (in 1949), and therefore Scrooge's Scottish origin was already established, but it never played a major role in other stories. Therefore the name "Picsou" was good enough. However, when Don Rosa came up with the Life and Times, I assume the translators felt the need to play up Scrooge's Scottishness, hence the addition of the Mc. Then again, in the "modern" era, Scrooge McDuck is always referred to as "Balthazar Picsou," without the Mc/Mac! It's never explicitely explained why, but it is speculated that he "Americanized" his surname by removing the prefix.

[Matilda]

Nope, Jake is the nickname for Jacob. But your question may answer my question: the French translator who named the second brother may not have realized that Jack is a nickname for John, either. President John F. Kennedy, for instance, was called Jack by friends and acquaintances.

The names that were hugely common in English in medieval times accrued a slew of nicknames that are often quite different-sounding from the formal name. I don't know whether the development of "Jack" as a nickname for John was influenced by "Jacques," which is of course the French version of Jacob, or whether it was just a random derivation from John using the first letter of the formal name only, in the same way "Molly" was a nickname for "Mary." If someone is named Jacques, that can be phonetically converted to English as Jack (or as Jake or Jacob, preserving its origin), so that could certainly contribute to the confusion.

Thanks for the Picsou/McPicsou explanation! That makes sense, and it would be reasonable to assume that in-universe Scrooge "Americanized" his name. Has there been any attempt in post-L&T printings of other stories featuring Scrooge's Scottish family to give them a "Mc"? Whether or not the stories had been printed earlier in France without the "Mc"....

Nice name for Ducky Bird!

EDIT: I should have said that "Jacques" is the equivalent of Jacob or James, as James is derived from the Hebrew name Jacob/Latin Jacobus. "Jack" was doubtless used as a nickname for Jacob in the past, though it's assigned to John nowadays.

[cacou]

"Picsou" was actually introduced in 1952 in issue 30 of the Journal de Mickey. The name was reportedly created by Raymond Calame. Only later did the first name "Omer" appear, never to appear again. In France Picsou's first name is "Balthazar". (While in non-Hachette publications from the 1940s and 1950s he was "Harpagon").
When Picsou Magazine published the life and times of Scrooge McDuck, they decided to give new English-sounding names to all minor characters. So for instance, the tradition of naming Goldie "Doretta Doremi" was abandoned and Goldie became simply Goldie. I do not know about Jack and John, but I'd guess that "Angus" is a quite strange name for a French reader whereas Jack and John are very recognizable names.

[juicymcduck]

May 18, 2021 14:48:24 GMT cacou said:

"Picsou" was actually introduced in 1952 in issue 30 of the Journal de Mickey. The name was reportedly created by Raymond Calame. Only later did the first name "Omer" appear, never to appear again. In France Picsou's first name is "Balthazar". (While in non-Hachette publications from the 1940s and 1950s he was "Harpagon").
When Picsou Magazine published the life and times of Scrooge McDuck, they decided to give new English-sounding names to all minor characters. So for instance, the tradition of naming Goldie "Doretta Doremi" was abandoned and Goldie became simply Goldie. I do not know about Jack and John, but I'd guess that "Angus" is a quite strange name for a French reader whereas Jack and John are very recognizable names.

I think that "translating" Angus with John was not a good decision. The former sounds very Scottish, while the latter sounds pretty bland by comparison.

[Matilda]

May 18, 2021 14:48:24 GMT cacou said:

"Picsou" was actually introduced in 1952 in issue 30 of the Journal de Mickey. The name was reportedly created by Raymond Calame. Only later did the first name "Omer" appear, never to appear again. In France Picsou's first name is "Balthazar". (While in non-Hachette publications from the 1940s and 1950s he was "Harpagon").
When Picsou Magazine published the life and times of Scrooge McDuck, they decided to give new English-sounding names to all minor characters. So for instance, the tradition of naming Goldie "Doretta Doremi" was abandoned and Goldie became simply Goldie. I do not know about Jack and John, but I'd guess that "Angus" is a quite strange name for a French reader whereas Jack and John are very recognizable names.

Sure, I'm not surprised the French gave the uncles more everyday names--just surprised that they used Jack and John for brothers, since Jack is a nickname for John!

It's interesting to hear what a big shift in naming there was at the publication of L&T--from long-used names for certain characters like Goldie to English-sounding names, and from Piscou to McPicsou for the Scottish family-of-origin.

[cacou]

Most probably, the translators was not aware that Jack is a nickname of John, as Jack looks like Jacques and John is similar to Jean, whereas I guess Jacques shares the same origin as Jacob or Jake.

[Orora]

Isn't "Jack" also a nickname of "James"?

[Matilda]

May 21, 2021 14:11:07 GMT Orora said:

Isn't "Jack" also a nickname of "James"?

No, it’s not. Nicknames for James are Jim (most common) or Jamie.

[Orora]

May 21, 2021 22:16:04 GMT Matilda said:

May 21, 2021 14:11:07 GMT Orora said:

Isn't "Jack" also a nickname of "James"?

No, it’s not. Nicknames for James are Jim (most common) or Jamie.

Wow, for years, I thought "Jack" was just a nickname for "James"... and then learned about the "John" connection...


This is also because in French, the equivalent of "James" is "Jacques", which sounds a lot like "Jack". And I feel that quite a few English-to-French translations localized "Jack" as "Jacques" because of this.