The lack of empathy of H,D&L to Donald's unlucky

[poordonald]

Hi everyone, I'm happy to find this forum and it's my first post. Sorry for my poor english since I'm non-native speaker. 

I used to read lots of duck comics translated into Chinese when I'm a child. Most of them come from Italy or Denmark originally I think. For many stories, I was left the impression that H,D&L usually lacks empathy to Donald's unlucky. My impression may not be accurate since I read them long time ago, but I'll take them down from my own perspective.

A typical scearino is that when Uncle Scrooge is chasing Donald for something not his fault (usually at the end of the story), H,D&L will laugh by the side, not trying to feel sorry for that. Well, I can understand it's for humour when it's presented at the end of the story. However during the regular plot, H,D&L also show this lack of empathy frequently. Particulary, when there is Gladstone involved, such plot happens more frequent.

I remember that there is one story that Donald exchanges his luck with Gladstone by chance, then he laughed at Gladstone's funny experience. H,D&L denounced Donald for not showing empathy to the relative seriously and insist that he should exchange the luck back with Gladstone. I don't think it's very fair, considering Gladstone actually has Donald's original luck, his funny experience should be Donald's "daily routine". In other daily stories, when Gladstone laughed at Donald's bad experience and tried to date Daisy before Donald, H,D&L hardly showed such high morarity standard by blaming Gladstone, or make some unharmful jokes on Gladstone to stick up for Donald, even it's very common practice for them!

Again, I know that it's for humour for most cases, however those stories did leave me bad impressions and I think it hurt the personalities that H,D&L "are supposed to possess". I wonder is there any story which contradicts my impression (where H,D&L show some real empathy and stand by Donald), or it's common tradition over most of stories? If it's latter, how does the tradition come from? (I know that H,D&L is VERY naughty when they first appear in cartoon videos, however in the comic, I expect them to show more good and caring personality as they show in other stories unrelated to Donald.

Thank you very much. Any feedback will be appreciated!

[LP]

Welcome to the forum, Poordonald!

It's an interesting point you bring up. I've mostly read American Duck-stories by Carl Barks and Don Rosa (although I've grown up with Scandinavian Egmont-stories). I guess different writers have their own ideas of what the dynamic is between Donald and his nephews. A major factor in this might be that some writers think of HDL as five-year-olds, whereas others might think of them as being 10. The tone of the scene might also be a factor, as you suggested.

My general interpretation of Barks' HDL is that they generally would be Donald's backups in a Donald vs Gladstone story. They might prank their uncle on occasion, but they do love him.

Your post made me think of one story in particular, by Don Rosa, called The Magnificent Seven (Minus Four) Caballeros. It starts with HDL feeling pity for Donald and tries to cheer him up by sending him on a trip to visit his friends José Carioca and Panchito Pistoles. It shows a sweet side of their relationship.

[Matilda]

Welcome, Poordonald!

The first Barks story I think of regarding HDL's attitude towards Donald is No Such Varmint. They don't directly rag on him, but they're disappointed in him in comparison to people who hold down respectable jobs. They do try to help him out, though.

Two Rosa stories come to mind. In Super Snooper Strikes Again HDL talk explicitly about how their comments about Donald might affect his self-esteem. One of the boys makes a belittling remark about Donald's job status, and the other two rebuke him for it and he shows remorse. Later they are afraid that this comment has sent Donald over the edge, and that's why he has delusions of superpowers. At the end they acknowledge that Donald truly outshines people like Gladstone and Gyro because of how he stepped up to the plate to raise the three of them...though they don't say that to Donald, they vow to tell him this more often. In WHADALOTTAJARGON, their treatment of Donald (along with the rest of their behavior) changes radically due to their becoming Junior Woodchucks. Pre-JW, they are disrespectful and "running amok." By the end of the story, they are awarding Donald a special JW citation for being a noble and caring uncle. This story more successfully merges the sentimental with the comic than Super Snooper, though, in that they both start and end by blowing Donald out of his chair with a rocket--though in the end they're concerned about what they've done to him!

[Spectrus]

For what it's worth, Daisy sticks more negatively in my mind for how she deals with Donald's bad luck. At times. Worst was the story where Donald was run over by a car and Daisy then claimed, in front of his hospital bed, he did it on purpose to avoid going out with her. Not one of Rodolfo Cimino's best moments, really.

[That Duckfan]

I think the general tenor in Dutch stories is that Donald's money woes are adult problems. Not Huey, Dewey, and Louie's business most of the time. (And when they do try to help Donald, they often outshine him!) I don't think it's surprising that something like would not concern the children.

Donald's luck is somewhat of an exaggerated trope of his. It mainly pops up when Gladstone's around, and there's no saying how Daisy will respond. In other stories, at least the ones I find most satisfying, Donald's undoing is at least partially his own fault. Bad writers tend to heap on bad luck of cartoony proportions. That's often unnecessarily cruel.

Chinese Disney comics, huh? I've been going around INDUCKS lately, those are quite interesting!

[sim]

I guess you are referring to Martina's stories, especially in the '50s he represented the duckling just as plain crying kids, but also in '60s and '70s they often showed more empathy towards Gladstone rather than to Donald.

But I think this is due to the fact they live together. HDL see Donald as lazy, aggressive (he always forces them doing tasks under menace of physical damage), and generally presumptuous/arrogant (even when he's clearly wrong about something), so they easily avoid empathizing. Gladstone, on the other hand, is enough stranger for them, so that his vices are not always under their eyes.

[Matilda]

Also, Martina made everyone nasty.

[poordonald]

Jun 28, 2021 14:31:08 GMT LP said:

Welcome to the forum, Poordonald!

It's an interesting point you bring up. I've mostly read American Duck-stories by Carl Barks and Don Rosa (although I've grown up with Scandinavian Egmont-stories). I guess different writers have their own ideas of what the dynamic is between Donald and his nephews. A major factor in this might be that some writers think of HDL as five-year-olds, whereas others might think of them as being 10. The tone of the scene might also be a factor, as you suggested.

My general interpretation of Barks' HDL is that they generally would be Donald's backups in a Donald vs Gladstone story. They might prank their uncle on occasion, but they do love him.

Your post made me think of one story in particular, by Don Rosa, called The Magnificent Seven (Minus Four) Caballeros. It starts with HDL feeling pity for Donald and tries to cheer him up by sending him on a trip to visit his friends José Carioca and Panchito Pistoles. It shows a sweet side of their relationship.

Hello LP,

Yes, I think you had a very good point here. In different stories, HDL seem to have different ages. For classic Junior Woodchuck stories I think they are about 7 or 8. But for some stories which hve a modern school setting, HDL are trying to deal with some problems for teenagers.

I'll definitely check this Don Rosa story!

[poordonald]

Jun 28, 2021 20:42:01 GMT Matilda said:

Welcome, Poordonald!

The first Barks story I think of regarding HDL's attitude towards Donald is No Such Varmint. They don't directly rag on him, but they're disappointed in him in comparison to people who hold down respectable jobs. They do try to help him out, though.

Two Rosa stories come to mind. In Super Snooper Strikes Again HDL talk explicitly about how their comments about Donald might affect his self-esteem. One of the boys makes a belittling remark about Donald's job status, and the other two rebuke him for it and he shows remorse. Later they are afraid that this comment has sent Donald over the edge, and that's why he has delusions of superpowers. At the end they acknowledge that Donald truly outshines people like Gladstone and Gyro because of how he stepped up to the plate to raise the three of them...though they don't say that to Donald, they vow to tell him this more often. In WHADALOTTAJARGON, their treatment of Donald (along with the rest of their behavior) changes radically due to their becoming Junior Woodchucks. Pre-JW, they are disrespectful and "running amok." By the end of the story, they are awarding Donald a special JW citation for being a noble and caring uncle. This story more successfully merges the sentimental with the comic than Super Snooper, though, in that they both start and end by blowing Donald out of his chair with a rocket--though in the end they're concerned about what they've done to him!

Hello Matilda,

Yes, it seems like for a classic story line Barks and Rosa raised, Junior Woodchuck is a turning point for HDL to develop their personality. They are naughty but they are on the way to develop better personablity. Afterall they are kids, so making them understand Donald's trouble as an adult may be not possible.

[poordonald]

Jun 29, 2021 20:58:02 GMT Spectrus said:

For what it's worth, Daisy sticks more negatively in my mind for how she deals with Donald's bad luck. At times. Worst was the story where Donald was run over by a car and Daisy then claimed, in front of his hospital bed, he did it on purpose to avoid going out with her. Not one of Rodolfo Cimino's best moments, really.

Daisy's lack of empathy is another interesting topic. Image how many times Daisy dating with Gladstone, leaving Donald in the bad luck, at the end of a story. Afterall Donald is her official boy friend...such plot makes readers sad.

[poordonald]

Jun 29, 2021 21:10:42 GMT That Duckfan said:

I think the general tenor in Dutch stories is that Donald's money woes are adult problems. Not Huey, Dewey, and Louie's business most of the time. (And when they do try to help Donald, they often outshine him!) I don't think it's surprising that something like would not concern the children.

Donald's luck is somewhat of an exaggerated trope of his. It mainly pops up when Gladstone's around, and there's no saying how Daisy will respond. In other stories, at least the ones I find most satisfying, Donald's undoing is at least partially his own fault. Bad writers tend to heap on bad luck of cartoony proportions. That's often unnecessarily cruel.

Chinese Disney comics, huh? I've been going around INDUCKS lately, those are quite interesting!

I think most of stories translated in Chinese come from Europe, and don't have a English version. I agree that many of Europe stories are quite "adult"! They tend to talk about social problems. A story I had deep impression is D8790, where Donald's house is to be pulled down by city government. 

[poordonald]

Jun 30, 2021 6:47:51 GMT sim said:

I guess you are referring to Martina's stories, especially in the '50s he represented the duckling just as plain crying kids, but also in '60s and '70s they often showed more empathy towards Gladstone rather than to Donald.

But I think this is due to the fact they live together. HDL see Donald as lazy, aggressive (he always forces them doing tasks under menace of physical damage), and generally presumptuous/arrogant (even when he's clearly wrong about something), so they easily avoid empathizing. Gladstone, on the other hand, is enough stranger for them, so that his vices are not always under their eyes.

 Thank you, I will check it. You are right that naughty children usually will not have good impression on their guardian, because at that stage of their lives, he must play the role to discipline them...I remember that there's one story talking about if Donald doesn't ever exist, DHL are raised by Glastone, then they become fat couch potatos. That's very interesting! 

[Matilda]

Jul 12, 2021 5:02:38 GMT poordonald said:

Jun 30, 2021 6:47:51 GMT sim said:

I guess you are referring to Martina's stories, especially in the '50s he represented the duckling just as plain crying kids, but also in '60s and '70s they often showed more empathy towards Gladstone rather than to Donald.

But I think this is due to the fact they live together. HDL see Donald as lazy, aggressive (he always forces them doing tasks under menace of physical damage), and generally presumptuous/arrogant (even when he's clearly wrong about something), so they easily avoid empathizing. Gladstone, on the other hand, is enough stranger for them, so that his vices are not always under their eyes.

 Thank you, I will check it. You are right that naughty children usually will not have good impression on their guardian, because at that stage of their lives, he must play the role to discipline them...I remember that there's one story talking about if Donald doesn't ever exist, DHL are raised by Glastone, then they become fat couch potatos. That's very interesting! 

The story you’re talking of is another Rosa story, The Duck Who Never Was.

[Spectrus]

On a similar plane there's this story: inducks.org/story.php?c=I+TL+2369-1

Huey, Dewey and Louie are fed up with Donald and vice versa, so they go round to search for "replacement uncles". Fethry, Scrooge and Gladstone are tried out but it doesn't really work.

[That Duckfan]

Jul 12, 2021 4:53:31 GMT poordonald said:

Jun 29, 2021 21:10:42 GMT That Duckfan said:

I think the general tenor in Dutch stories is that Donald's money woes are adult problems. Not Huey, Dewey, and Louie's business most of the time. (And when they do try to help Donald, they often outshine him!) I don't think it's surprising that something like would not concern the children.

Donald's luck is somewhat of an exaggerated trope of his. It mainly pops up when Gladstone's around, and there's no saying how Daisy will respond. In other stories, at least the ones I find most satisfying, Donald's undoing is at least partially his own fault. Bad writers tend to heap on bad luck of cartoony proportions. That's often unnecessarily cruel.

Chinese Disney comics, huh? I've been going around INDUCKS lately, those are quite interesting!

I think most of stories translated in Chinese come from Europe, and don't have a English version. I agree that many of Europe stories are quite "adult"! They tend to talk about social problems. A story I had deep impression is D8790, where Donald's house is to be pulled down by city government. 

What I find interesting is that the editing and marketing of Chinese comics, as far as I can make it out on INDUCKS, is quite localized and suited to the culture. It's a big contrast to the magazines that popped into existence in post-Soviet states in the early 1990s, which were standardized Egmont publications to a large degree.

The social commentary is part of the appeal, I think. The most popular stories seem to be ones that people can relate to. A lot of writers use Donald as a way to channel their own anxieties and frustrations and ambitions -- the parts of ourselves and our society that are a bit ridiculous. Not in a moralistic, soapbox way, just as a bit of fun.