Is religion allowed in Donald Duck comics?

[jonas]

I feel like the only references to religion in Donald Duck is references to gods in prechristian religions the only reference to Christianity  in the Panthom of notre Duck. I have seen no references to Judaism, Islam, Hinduism etc. But let’s focus on the question is religion allowed in Donald Duck comics? I think that Duckburg is a place where most people Are atheists if that hadn’t been the case religion would be talked much about. So what do you think? Is religion allowed in Donald Duck comics?

[sim]

Apr 2, 2022 18:27:01 GMT jonas said:

I feel like the only references to religion in Donald Duck is references to gods in prechristian religions the only reference to Christianity  in the Panthom of notre Duck. I have seen no references to Judaism, Islam, Hinduism etc. But let’s focus on the question is religion allowed in Donald Duck comics? I think that Duckburg is a place where most people Are atheists if that hadn’t been the case religion would be talked much about. So what do you think? Is religion allowed in Donald Duck comics?

The Old Castle's Secrets featured McDuck cemetery with tombstones and such (this article was rather complete on the matter), but it was 1948... I don't think that religions are dealt in nowadays Disney comics if not tangentially or in a way that only far-far away traditions are involved (see Everett Ducklair in a Tibet-like context in the PK series).

[RobbK1]

As far as I remember, we Disney story writers were instructed to avoid using religion as a plot element in our stories.

The best person to answer your question is probably the Norwegian ex-seminary student, Vidar Svensen, who wrote a treatise on "Religion in Donald Duck Comics", who used to be on our Disney Comics Forum (which was the international Disney Comics Internet-based forum that was the precursor to this one).  But, I think he dropped out because he finished school and had to concentrate on his career work. Perhaps he became a Lutheran minister? Ironically, he lived in (or very close by to) Kristiansand. 

Luckily, French Donaldist, Adrien Miqueu, translated that treatise into English, and you can find it here:

donaldisme.dk/religion.htm

[tashlinfan44]

I was under the impression that any talk of religion was forbidden for these stories. I know Rosa could never do his much-requested Ark of the Covenant treasure hunt because he couldn’t mention Jesus Christ in his stories.

[Daniel Maline]

Relidions aren't actually forbidden, but reference to different religions is bewared with varying degrees in different countries and only references to the Greek and Norse gods have been left because "they are 'dead religions' and therefore cannot offend anyone." In Finland, for example, some references to religions have been erased from stories for security, for example, by removing the well-know Jesus statue from the stories that located in Rio, because they "don't want to offend non-religious and religious people" (in Finland, there are also opponents and supporters of this questionable practice). But in the other Nordic countries, this has not been the as strict case and they have been more permissive, for example, with this Jesus statue of Rio.

[Dr Ivo G Bombastus]

Hinduism, or at least Hindu themed treasures, are featured in some stories like Kali's Nail and the Treasure of the Ten Avatars. Likewise treasures of Jewish and Christian origin show up here and there as well, like King Og's Iron Bed and Solomon's Mines. The Old Castle's Other Secret or A Letter from Home in particular features the history of the Knights Templar as a key part of the McDuck clan's past and depicts treasures from Solomon's temple, the Holy Grail, the Shamir of Rabbanic lore, etc. Other stories that touch on real world historical events depict details relating to religion, churches, and so on.

Of course these stories aren't really about religion per se, such as addressing whether or not individual characters in the comics believe in God, but they do acknowledge that religions exist and are part of the world those characters live in.

There are a lot of stories that address the afterlife and the existence of ghosts, although the way different writers deal with those ideas is widely inconsistent (for example which characters believe in ghosts and which are skeptics changes from one story to another).

[threeseas]

What about all of the Christmas stories like "A Christmas for Shacktown?". I'd think that they count as being religious.

[tashlinfan44]

A lot of people just celebrate Christmas for the commercial aspect of it. Also, there's no mention of the religious side to the holiday in that story.

[bats]

Apr 3, 2022 20:32:32 GMT Dr Ivo G Bombastus said:

Hinduism, or at least Hindu themed treasures, are featured in some stories like (...) Treasure of the Ten Avatars.

That story also really feels like something that wouldn't be allowed today. 

[casmiki]

In some old stories (created in a bygone era) religious references were present. For instance, in "Paperino e i ribelli del Rif" ("Donald Duck and the Rif rebels", Martina/Carpi, 1954), the Rif rebels are muslims celebrating Ramadan and they call Donald "cane infedele" ("infidel dog"). These religious references (now considered outdated and potentially offensive) are often censored in reprints ("Paperino e i ribelli del Rif" was already censored in its first reprint in 1964).

[Rrr]

Apr 4, 2022 15:53:19 GMT casmiki said:

In some old stories (created in a bygone era) religious references were present. For instance, in "Paperino e i ribelli del Rif" ("Donald Duck and the Rif rebels", Martina/Carpi, 1954), the Rif rebels are muslims celebrating Ramadan and they call Donald "cane infedele" ("infidel dog"). These religious references (now considered outdated and potentially offensive) are often censored in reprints ("Paperino e i ribelli del Rif" was already censored in its first reprint in 1964).

I also remember a Italian story (from 60-70es i think) i read in a danish Jumbobog at some point, Scrooge and co were traveling to some Middle eastern country for a treasure hunt and some of the natives said something (i don’t remember the context exactly..) about that they were celebrating Ramasjang and they were fasting (something that iirc Scrooge reacted negatively to), a obvious parody on Ramadan (Ramasjang means smth like “hullabaloo” in Danish). i don’t remember what story it was, maybe i could find it later, but its possible that in the original they actually mentioned Ramadan or maybe something else

Rune
update: after searching a bit on INDUCKS I’m certain that the story is I TL 670-C

[sim]

I did not remember that Jesus himself appeared (or at least was hinted, I haven't read the story in a long time) here.

[Matilda]

The situation in Brazilian comics publishing must have been different, at least back in the 1980's. Witness especially Um Natal Bem Diferente in which the Ducks time-travel at Christmas. They travel to Rome at the time of Nero and meet Christians in the catacombs, who are celebrating Christmas with a meal of bread and wine (not explicitly labeled as communion/eucharist)...then Nero sets Rome on fire (and is going to blame the Christians, so they have to escape). Then the Ducks travel to Germany in the year 10, where the folks believe in the Norse gods--they initially think the Ducks are Odin, Thor, etc.--and dance around the evergreen tree which Fethry recognizes as the origin of the Christmas tree. Then the Ducks land in a desert in ancient Palestine, meet the three kings with the traditional names, Caspar, Melchior and Balthazar, and with the kings they actually observe the original nativity scene. Melchior had been waylaid and robbed of his gift, so Scrooge gives him the gold he picked up in Rome...hence, we now know that the king's gift of gold to the baby Jesus was provided by Scrooge himself! Jesus, Mary and Joseph don't do/say anything and are not named, but it's of course obvious what/whom we're looking at. From all this Scrooge learns at the end that giving is as much fun as receiving.

This is all based on the French translation in SPG 45, but it's pretty clear that most of the explicit Christian references must be in the original. Published 1981, won some Brazilian prize in 1984.

I remember someone saying somewhere that Brazilian Disney comics generally have had lots of references to Christian culture. Was that on Feathery or on GeoX's blog?

The fanzine Picsou Soir, the issues of which are available online and have been linked to on this forum, has had I think two articles on religion in the Duckworld. I'm not particularly impressed by those articles, though. One of them ends up theorizing that the Ducks are most likely Roman Catholic, due to Downy O'Drake's Irish origins and the predominance of Catholicism on the West Coast where Calisota is! The author of that one apparently has no idea how dominant the culture of Protestantism was in the US in the mid-20th century, and how an "everyman" character would have been coded Protestant whether or not he ever went near a church. Catholics were "other" to the average child reader, who was Protestant and most likely attended church at least at Christmas and Easter, whether or not their parents cared about church beliefs or practices.

[RobbK1]

Apr 3, 2022 20:32:32 GMT Dr Ivo G Bombastus said:

Hinduism, or at least Hindu themed treasures, are featured in some stories like Kali's Nail and the Treasure of the Ten Avatars. Likewise treasures of Jewish and Christian origin show up here and there as well, like King Og's Iron Bed and Solomon's Mines. The Old Castle's Other Secret or A Letter from Home in particular features the history of the Knights Templar as a key part of the McDuck clan's past and depicts treasures from Solomon's temple, the Holy Grail, the Shamir of Rabbanic lore, etc. Other stories that touch on real world historical events depict details relating to religion, churches, and so on.

Of course these stories aren't really about religion per se, such as addressing whether or not individual characters in the comics believe in God, but they do acknowledge that religions exist and are part of the world those characters live in.

There are a lot of stories that address the afterlife and the existence of ghosts, although the way different writers deal with those ideas is widely inconsistent (for example which characters believe in ghosts and which are skeptics changes from one story to another).

Your statement that King Og's iron bed was a "treasure of Jewish or Christian origin could be confusing.  Perhaps you should have worded that as "Jewish or Christian lore", rather than "origin".  The latter implies that Jewish believers manufactured King Og's bed, and dug King Solomon's mines (which they couldn't possibly have done).  Moreover, they couldn't possibly have even have invented those legends, as the legends existed long before they, themselves, existed.

Having been referred to in The Jewish and Christian Bibles, King Og was a pagan Amorite King of Bashan (a highland region east of The Jordan River (including Mount Hermon and The Golan Heights, and spreading eastward over the foothills and plateau, to the edge of The Syrian Desert, encompassing parts of northwestern Jordan and southwestern Syria), which actually only became part of The Kingdom of Israel after Bashan was defeated in war, long after King Og's death.  What we call Judaism, today, per se, didn't really start until The Judaites returned from Babylonia and built their Second Temple around 530 BCE.  So, IF his legendary iron bed was a "treasure", it wasn't "of Jewish origin", as Judaism didn't exist back when The Israelite Hebrews infiltrated that area, probably between 1400 and 1200 BCE (when The Bible said that King Og lived (e.g. the time of Joshua's victories over The Amorites)). And couldn't have been of "Christian origin", as Christianity didn't start until over 1,000 years later.  There are independent, non-Biblical historical sources to corroborate the historical existence of The Amorite Kingdom of Bashan, and the rulers that ruled it during the late Bronze Age (although no King Og is mentioned specifically in those texts).  In any case, The Bibles' references ARE Jewish and Christian LORE, but the legendary treasures, IF they ever existed, could NOT have had Jewish origins, because those legends were known by The Hebrew Israelites, who preceded the Jews(from Judah) by a few hundred years; and The Christians could NOT have created them, as they only got them much later, from The Jews.

Referring to King Solomon's Mines is, in no way referring to religion.  It is referring to an historical king of a country mentioned in The Jewish and Christian Bibles, and in The Koran.  But the legends about him related to what he built or his personal holdings or the holdings of his kingdom could be discussed in a context of history, only, without regard to religion, in the slightest.  Should there be a complete ban on mentioning the name of any noun mentioned in any holy book?

I do recognise your statement: "these stories aren't really about religion per se".  So, my problem with your statements are just about semantics, and what they imply, and how that could be misunderstood

[corrado]

There were some references to religion in early Karp/Taliaferro Comic-Strips, for example YD 38-12-30, YD 39-09-18, YD 40-03-04; also in one Barks-Story (if I remember correctly W OS 29-02) where Donald calls his nephews not to forget their prayers. Also some old Italian Christmas-stories refered explicitly to Christianity. The stories with the most explicit religious background I know are I TL 2125-1 (Topolino e la memoria futura; Sisti/Scarpa) where the Time-machine of Marlin and Zapotec brings Mickey near to Jesus (although he is not directly mentioned) and above all one story which has been mentioned by Matilda in this forum,namely Um natal bem diferente by Ivan Saidenberg and Ireneo Soares Rodrigues (B 810186). Sadly I also have only the French version where one (crucial) page seems to be missing (parts of page 21 and page 22 of this story). It would be fine if some Brazilian fan could send a scan of this page. A very ironic aproach to religion you can find in D 2003-243 by Gorm Transgaard and Flemming Andersen where a Godlike person called "The Great Registrator" plays a central role. Of course it would be possible to continue these examples if you consider also more indirect references to religion.