I'm not the expert on this, but I think it comes down to a few major factors:
(1) The Disney comics published in the USA went way down in quality around the 1970's--maybe by the late 1960's? So they lost readership. And it's hard to bring back readers once there's been a long stretch of low-quality comics. (Back in the day, of course, the comic titled Uncle Scrooge was the most popular comic book in the USA, thanks to Unca Carl.) There was a period after that low-quality stretch when there weren't any Disney comics produced in the USA at all. Then when the small publisher Gladstone started publishing, it couldn't get more than a niche readership.
Just one thing here... I agree with all your points, but I'm fairly certain (as I've read it in several books over the years) that Walt Disney's Comics and Stories was the bestselling American comic book. This of course can also be attributed in large part to Carl Barks, as his Donald Duck ten-pagers led off practically every issue of WDC in those days. When it comes to Uncle Scrooge, I'm guessing it might have become a good number two over the years, but I don't think I've seen any statements about its sales in relation to WDC, DD or MM. Nor sure how high on the overall sales list for comic books the other Disney titles were, either.
You can find some sale stats for 1960-1969 at Comichron, but the records aren't perfect. The problems that Disney comics had during the 60s are however evident.
Just one thing here... I agree with all your points, but I'm fairly certain (as I've read it in several books over the years) that Walt Disney's Comics and Stories was the bestselling American comic book. This of course can also be attributed in large part to Carl Barks, as his Donald Duck ten-pagers led off practically every issue of WDC in those days. When it comes to Uncle Scrooge, I'm guessing it might have become a good number two over the years, but I don't think I've seen any statements about its sales in relation to WDC, DD or MM. Nor sure how high on the overall sales list for comic books the other Disney titles were, either.
You can find some sale stats for 1960-1969 at Comichron, but the records aren't perfect. The problems that Disney comics had during the 60s are however evident.
Wow! Interesting... the figures they calculate for 1960 has U$ averaging 1,040,543 issues sold per month, while WDC averaged 1,004,901 copies. Next on the list is DC's Superman with 810,000 copies.
I think the real golden age for WDC sales-wise was several years before 1960, though. If I remember correctly, I've read that its sales started to slip by the late 1950s.
Also, where is Donald Duck on that 1960 sales list? Mickey Mouse is listed as number 5 with 568,803 sold copies, so it seems inconceivable that Donald wouldn't also be somewhere in that vicinity.
Last Edit: Aug 9, 2022 18:56:38 GMT by Mesterius: Say wak?
You can find some sale stats for 1960-1969 at Comichron, but the records aren't perfect. The problems that Disney comics had during the 60s are however evident.
Also, where is Donald Duck on that 1960 sales list? Mickey Mouse is listed as number 5 with 568,803 sold copies, so it seems inconceivable that Donald wouldn't also be somewhere in that vicinity.
The same is true for WDC&S in 1961. As Comichron writes: No Statement has been found for Walt Disney's Comics & Stories, which presumably would have tracked Uncle Scrooge in sales on the way down.
And in 1962 Gold Key accidentally only reported the subscription sales so that list is off too.
Put it this way. I grew up a Disney fan. Tons of VHS, DVDs, books, trips to Walt Disney World, plushes, etc. Everything imaginable. I didn't know about Disney comics until a visit to the Library of Congress where in the gift shop Volume 1 of the Floyd Gottfredson Library was being sold. Best impulse purchase ever.
If a Disney loving family wasn't aware of Disney comics in America, what hope do most Americans have?
There is no doubt in my mind that the comics would be insanely popular if they were widely known.
I think I agree with aspects of this perspective. The United States has plenty of Disney fans and even some Mickey Mouse or Donald Duck fans, but the comics featuring these characters are just relatively unknown for reasons that I'm not smart enough to figure out. I don't think most people that I talk to here in the States in real life are super familiar with the concept of Donald Duck comics, but then again, it's not like I ask everyone that I meet. My upbringing was similar to yours in that I was raised around lots of Disney-centered stuff, but had no exposure to the comics until I found them for myself.
I've seen superheroes mentioned on this thread as perhaps being more popular than Disney ducks and mice in American comics, but I think superhero comics are probably being surpassed today, at least to some extent, by manga. I know there are loads of kids today (at least, kids that I or my family know) who read manga. I know more of them than I do people who read superhero comics and certainly know more of them than I do people who read Duck comics. I'm not necessarily saying that this is a bad thing, but it's just my (admittedly anecdotal) observation about trends in young people's reading in the modern United States.
No matter what I say or do, know that Jesus loves you.
Put it this way. I grew up a Disney fan. Tons of VHS, DVDs, books, trips to Walt Disney World, plushes, etc. Everything imaginable. I didn't know about Disney comics until a visit to the Library of Congress where in the gift shop Volume 1 of the Floyd Gottfredson Library was being sold. Best impulse purchase ever.
If a Disney loving family wasn't aware of Disney comics in America, what hope do most Americans have?
There is no doubt in my mind that the comics would be insanely popular if they were widely known.
I think I agree with aspects of this perspective. The United States has plenty of Disney fans and even some Mickey Mouse or Donald Duck fans, but the comics featuring these characters are just relatively unknown for reasons that I'm not smart enough to figure out. I don't think most people that I talk to here in the States in real life are super familiar with the concept of Donald Duck comics, but then again, it's not like I ask everyone that I meet. My upbringing was similar to yours in that I was raised around lots of Disney-centered stuff, but had no exposure to the comics until I found them for myself.
I've seen superheroes mentioned on this thread as perhaps being more popular than Disney ducks and mice in American comics, but I think superhero comics are probably being surpassed today, at least to some extent, by manga. I know there are loads of kids today (at least, kids that I or my family know) who read manga. I know more of them than I do people who read superhero comics and certainly know more of them than I do people who read Duck comics. I'm not necessarily saying that this is a bad thing, but it's just my (admittedly anecdotal) observation about trends in young people's reading in the modern United States.
I think that tracks. I would say that in my age bracket (18-30), anime is also more popular than Western animation series, with only the occasional Adult Swim series like Rick and Morty or Bojack Horseman reaching a similar level of popularity among young adults.
Lack of spinner racks. One thing I've noticed is that there's a real dearth of comics aimed at kids. I grew up in the 70s, back when Harvey and Dell were still around. I probably read far more Casper and Disney than I did Marvel or DC. Now, I see the occasional Archie digest, but even the Archie main line seems more focused on horror. I assume this is because there's just not a market anymore, but personally I think if they put spinner racks back in grocery stores we'd see a resurgence of interest.
Lack of spinner racks. One thing I've noticed is that there's a real dearth of comics aimed at kids. I grew up in the 70s, back when Harvey and Dell were still around. I probably read far more Casper and Disney than I did Marvel or DC. Now, I see the occasional Archie digest, but even the Archie main line seems more focused on horror. I assume this is because there's just not a market anymore, but personally I think if they put spinner racks back in grocery stores we'd see a resurgence of interest.
Yes, this is one aspect of what I meant when I said that the whole infrastructure of distribution had collapsed. If you start up your own comics company, you can't just get the comics to grocery stores around the country on your own hook. There has to be a whole system of marketing & distribution in place.
Now, basically the only place in the US where what I think of as comic books are sold is comic book stores--as I said, not close by for much of the population, and often not very welcoming to women and kids. Manga and graphic novels (longer comic books that look like books!), though, are sold in bookstores and in-school sales and other places. People also find out about them on social media etc. and order them from online booksellers. Also, graphic novels are easier for libraries to deal with than traditional floppy comics! Manga is indeed quite popular with many young folks in the US, along with anime. Graphic novels are doing well among kids. Public libraries around me are developing pretty extensive collections of graphic novels for kids.
Some young people I know who *do* read comic books "trade-wait": they don't buy the individual floppies, they wait to buy the collection of issues in a trade paperback book. It's enough of a phenomenon that I've seen it referenced in online discussions, using that term. People seem to choose this strategy because it's more economical, but it's also a sign of the general loss of cultural currency for the floppy comic book.
Theoretically you'd think it would be possible to publish Duck or Mouse comics in the format of the graphic novel and market/sell them to kids. There would be some awkwardness in this, because the comics stories weren't written assuming a naive reader who has to be introduced to all the characters and a 200-page storyline, but it probably could be done, with a significant upfront investment in editors and translators and creators and in online marketing. If the Disney Company were interested in seeing that happen in the US, they might be able to pull it off. But the Corporate Mouse has never been all that interested in the comics...which has mostly been to the readers' benefit, in my opinion, allowing the glorious patchwork garden of incompatible takes on the Duck/Mouse universe to bloom unsupervised around the world.
One element of that loss of currency for the floppy is it's incentivised, too- stories by DC, Marvel, etc, are written with the trade reprint in mind as a priority over making sure the floppies are worth it. You get great stories when bought in trade paperbacks and read as a binge, but which are terrible when reading monthly because each floppy has very little content in itself, being just a part of a planned final book.
Theoretically you'd think it would be possible to publish Duck or Mouse comics in the format of the graphic novel and market/sell them to kids. There would be some awkwardness in this, because the comics stories weren't written assuming a naive reader who has to be introduced to all the characters and a 200-page storyline, but it probably could be done, with a significant upfront investment in editors and translators and creators and in online marketing. If the Disney Company were interested in seeing that happen in the US, they might be able to pull it off. But the Corporate Mouse has never been all that interested in the comics...which has mostly been to the readers' benefit, in my opinion, allowing the glorious patchwork garden of incompatible takes on the Duck/Mouse universe to bloom unsupervised around the world.
Eh. The average American floppy has 20 pages of story, and the average trade collects between 4 and 6 floppies. There's lots of 60+ page stories out there from both Italian publishers and Egmont, so it would absolutely be doable to publish these in the "standard" format.
Post by Dr Ivo G Bombastus on Aug 18, 2022 11:23:19 GMT
The distinction between formats is significant.
Disney comics as monthly titles are invisible in the US but the Life and Times of $crooge McDuck enjoyed what can very much be called mainstream success as a graphic novel.