"Mouseton" in the FantaGraphics Gottfredson books

[Baar Baar Jinx]

Mar 23, 2017 17:16:34 GMT drakeborough said:

I don't know if there are other uses of Mouseville in the newspaper comics, but I see that an obscure W-coded Chip 'n' Dale story from 1980 (which does not feature the Mickey cast) is titled The Sheriffs of Mouseville.

Interesting. Is Mouseville explicitly identified as the town Chip N Dale reside in? Strange choice, even if they assumed that was Mickey's hometown.

EDIT: Okay, "Mouseville" here has nothing to do with Mickey's hometown. It refers to a colony of MEAS-2 mice that Chip 'N Dale take over law enforcement responsibilities for.

 

[Scrooge MacDuck]

Hello! Just a new crumb of information for what has been a very informative thread, but in the 1990 video game Castle of Illusion, featuring Mickey, the town he and Minnie live in is inexplicably called Vera City. Which is… not a bad pun, but… wuh? 

[Baar Baar Jinx]

Oct 2, 2016 2:49:52 GMT Ramapith said:

Sept 29, 2016 23:29:50 GMT Baar Baar Jinx said:

I am aware of one use of "Mouseville" in Gottfredson's work ... the Phantom Blot continuity. Was it used at any other time?
Also, which S-coded stories used that name (I'm always interested in Disney comic historical gems like that)?

I remember it appearing once or twice in 1950s strips. Unfortunately, I can't recall a specific one right at the moment.
It is in lots of S-coded stories—like dozens. S 80006 is one example.

But were those S-coded stories ever published in English? The one referenced above doesn't seem to have been. I would assume the name of Mickey's hometown would have been translated into the relevant language in all non-English stories.

EDIT: (Does double-take) Wait! Scarpa did S-coded stories? I never knew that! How did that come about? And why would he use "Mouseville"?

[RobbK1]

Oct 2, 2016 17:32:40 GMT Matilda said:

I associate Mouseton with Boston, partly because I still think of Mouseton as being in an eastern state (Pennecticut). However, I do think of Mickey's town whenever I hear a BBC radio announcer pronounce "Houston" to rhyme with "Mouseton"!

I seem to remember "Houston" being pronounced "Euston" or "Yewston" in London, rather than "Howwston".

[cacou]

Feb 8, 2018 20:08:33 GMT Baar Baar Jinx said:

But were those S-coded stories ever published in English? The one referenced above doesn't seem to have been. I would assume the name of Mickey's hometown would have been translated into the relevant language in all non-English stories.

EDIT: (Does double-take) Wait! Scarpa did S-coded stories? I never knew that! How did that come about? And why would he use "Mouseville"?

I confirm the name Mouseville is used in the original script for S 80066. Only a few Studio stories were published in English (for instance, in Australia, England or the US), although most or all of them had English dialogues.
Scarpa indeed did Studio stories, but most of the time the story was not his.

[Baar Baar Jinx]

Feb 11, 2018 12:07:55 GMT cacou said:

Feb 8, 2018 20:08:33 GMT Baar Baar Jinx said:

But were those S-coded stories ever published in English? The one referenced above doesn't seem to have been. I would assume the name of Mickey's hometown would have been translated into the relevant language in all non-English stories.

EDIT: (Does double-take) Wait! Scarpa did S-coded stories? I never knew that! How did that come about? And why would he use "Mouseville"?

I confirm the name Mouseville is used in the original script for S 80066. Only a few Studio stories were published in English (for instance, in Australia, England or the US), although most or all of them had English dialogues.
Scarpa indeed did Studio stories, but most of the time the story was not his.

INDUCKS lists this particular story as also being written by Scarpa (unless that's an error). Was it originally written in Italian or English? If Italian, then "Mouseville" may not have been the name used by Scarpa (who probably used "Topolinia"), but rather the name chosen by the translator of the script into English. Then again, this story has never been published in English, so where does "Mouseville" actually appear? Also, how did Scarpa come to work for the Disney Studios program?

[RobbK1]

Feb 11, 2018 22:53:36 GMT Baar Baar Jinx said:

Feb 11, 2018 12:07:55 GMT cacou said:

I confirm the name Mouseville is used in the original script for S 80066. Only a few Studio stories were published in English (for instance, in Australia, England or the US), although most or all of them had English dialogues.
Scarpa indeed did Studio stories, but most of the time the story was not his.

INDUCKS lists this particular story as also being written by Scarpa (unless that's an error). Was it originally written in Italian or English? If Italian, then "Mouseville" may not have been the name used by Scarpa (who probably used "Topolinia"), but rather the name chosen by the translator of the script into English. Then again, this story has never been published in English, so where does "Mouseville" actually appear? Also, how did Scarpa come to work for the Disney Studios program?

I would bet the farm that Scarpa wrote all his stories in Italian.  IF he wrote any S coded stories, they must have been translated into English.

[cacou]

Hi

I've had access to the English script for S 80066. Although this one has apparently never been published in English, Disney editors like Hachette in France got the story in English before translation. The story is clearly drawn by Scarpa.

Scarpa and various other Italian artists worked for the Studio program. The Studio program got in touch with the artists who worked for Mondadori in the mid 1960s. I do not know for which reason exactly, but Italy was at that time the major producer of Disney comics beside the US, and had many talented artists who knew how to draw Disney characters. Also, the Studio program was meant to be a production for the international market (Europe and South America mainly, but also countries like Egypt). Later, they would submit many stories to Argentinian artists via the famous Jaime Diaz studio. Again, Argentina had many very good artists at that time.

Many scripts have been written by American writers, but not all of them, they also worked with foreign freelancers. I'd bet the story credit for S 80066 comes from Scarpa himself (via an Italian Disney expert who asked him about Studio stories, maybe Luca Boschi?).
But I suspect Scarpa may actually have worked on a plot that was submitted to him by Disney in the US, or rewrote an entire script. It is very unusual for Scarpa to be the sole author of a Disney Studio story; it is not unusual for him to rewrite stories.

In any case, the English dialogues are not Scarpa's, unless Scarpa really was as fluent in English as an English teacher

[acara]

Feb 12, 2018 9:26:55 GMT cacou said:

Hi

I've had access to the English script for S 80066. Although this one has apparently never been published in English, Disney editors like Hachette in France got the story in English before translation. The story is clearly drawn by Scarpa.

Scarpa and various other Italian artists worked for the Studio program. The Studio program got in touch with the artists who worked for Mondadori in the mid 1960s. I do not know for which reason exactly, but Italy was at that time the major producer of Disney comics beside the US, and had many talented artists who knew how to draw Disney characters. Also, the Studio program was meant to be a production for the international market (Europe and South America mainly, but also countries like Egypt). Later, they would submit many stories to Argentinian artists via the famous Jaime Diaz studio. Again, Argentina had many very good artists at that time.

Many scripts have been written by American writers, but not all of them, they also worked with foreign freelancers. I'd bet the story credit for S 80066 comes from Scarpa himself (via an Italian Disney expert who asked him about Studio stories, maybe Luca Boschi?).
But I suspect Scarpa may actually have worked on a plot that was submitted to him by Disney in the US, or rewrote an entire script. It is very unusual for Scarpa to be the sole author of a Disney Studio story; it is not unusual for him to rewrite stories.

In any case, the English dialogues are not Scarpa's, unless Scarpa really was as fluent in English as an English teacher

I agree with all of it but the last line.
So I checked with Alberto Becattini and below is what he says. Italian first and then the traslation in English. Translation is from me, not from Alberto.

Dunque... Per quanto ne so, dal 1963 fino almeno al 1974 arrivavano in Italia dallo Studio Disney soltanto dei soggetti dattiloscritti (da Kinney, Davie, Brightman e altri), di solito di un'unica pagina, che venivano tradotti e sviluppati in Italia. Quindi Scarpa o altri (Gentilini, Dalmasso, Chendi, ecc.) scrivevano di fatto le sceneggiature, in italiano, che poi venivano tradotte in inglese in Mondadori per essere rispedite allo Studio.
Le cose cambiano dopo il 1974. Carl Fallberg realizza sceneggiature nella forma di dettagliati storyboard che poi vengono trasformati in storie da Carpi, Rota e altri.
Dal 1976 Scarpa continua per proprio conto a collaborare con lo Studio e quando scrive le sceneggiature le scrive in inglese (le traduzioni, credo, le faceva sua figlia Sabina), inserendo i dialoghi a matita direttamente sulle tavole. I testi venivano poi "ripuliti" negli USA da Tom Golberg, perché l'inglese lasciava spesso a desiderare (un esempio: Scarpa intitola una storia The One Million's Chase, con un genitivo sassone che non ci sta di casa). Anche The Infuse of Chika-Chika non suona granché bene, in inglese. Ma non è certo questo il motivo per il quale la storia è "andata perduta".
Quando non era lui a scrivere le sceneggiature e i dialoghi (sempre in inglese), questi venivano dagli USA, ancora nella forma di dettagliati storyboard, da Carl Fallberg, Pete Hansen, Ed Nofziger, ecc. Anche qui, Scarpa riscriveva poi i dialoghi in inglese nei balloon.

So ... As far as I know, from 1963 until at least 1974 the Studio Disney sent to Italy only typescripts (from Kinney, Davie, Brightman and others), usually on a single page, which were translated and developed in Italy. So Scarpa or others (Gentilini, Dalmasso, Chendi, etc.) actually wrote the full scripts, in Italian, which were then translated into English at Mondadori to be sent back to the Studio.
Things changed after 1974. Carl Fallberg provides scripts in the form of detailed storyboards that were then turned into stories by Carpi, Rota and others.
Since 1976 Scarpa continues to collaborate with the Studio on his own and when he wrote the scripts he wrote them in English (the translations, I think, made by her daughter Sabina), inserting the dialogues in pencil directly on the drawings. The texts were then "cleaned up" in the US by Tom Golberg, because English often left something to be desired (an example: Scarpa called a story The One Million's Chase, with a genitive Saxon who does not belong there). Even The Infuse of Chika-Chika does not sound very good, in English. But this is certainly not the reason why the story was "lost".
When it was not him who wrote the scripts and the dialogues (always in English), they came from the USA, still in the form of detailed storyboards, by Carl Fallberg, Pete Hansen, Ed Nofziger, etc. Also here, Scarpa then rewrote the English dialogues in the balloons.

[cacou]

Thank you for the interesting information.

I'll also attach here what I believe is a rare example of a 1986 Studio story for which we have a script, pencil drawing and final art (although the artist is not Italian).

Attachments:

[acara]

This is very interesting.
Out of curiosity, I am always researching for stories for which is available the pair that includes the storyboard script and the penciled page. I have some with S-code as well as with other Western codes. A few from Vic Lockman scripts.

Since we are discussing S-coded stories, below I am putting the splash pages from another S-coded story, script and penciled page. This is a story from 1971 with code S71305. This one has never been published. According to INDUCKS this story has actually a different code (S76053), but INDUCKS itself list this story with yet another possible code
inducks.org/story.php?c=S+%3F+625







All very interesting to me. I am always looking for more.

Attachments:

[cacou]

Feb 28, 2018 10:40:56 GMT acara said:

This is very interesting.
Out of curiosity, I am always researching for stories for which is available the pair that includes the storyboard script and the penciled page. I have some with S-code as well as with other Western codes. A few from Vic Lockman scripts.

Since we are discussing S-coded stories, below I am putting the splash pages from another S-coded story, script and penciled page. This is a story from 1971 with code S71305. This one has never been published. According to INDUCKS this story has actually a different code (S76053), but INDUCKS itself list this story with yet another possible code
inducks.org/story.php?c=S+%3F+625
All very interesting to me. I am always looking for more.

Thank you for this information.
There is indeed some confusion. S ? 625 is a code made up by the Inducks, howver S 71305 is 4 (not 6) pages long.
How do you know this story is S 71305 (or S 76053)?

[acara]

Mar 4, 2018 13:47:52 GMT cacou said:

Feb 28, 2018 10:40:56 GMT acara said:

This is very interesting.
Out of curiosity, I am always researching for stories for which is available the pair that includes the storyboard script and the penciled page. I have some with S-code as well as with other Western codes. A few from Vic Lockman scripts.

Since we are discussing S-coded stories, below I am putting the splash pages from another S-coded story, script and penciled page. This is a story from 1971 with code S71305. This one has never been published. According to INDUCKS this story has actually a different code (S76053), but INDUCKS itself list this story with yet another possible code
inducks.org/story.php?c=S+%3F+625
All very interesting to me. I am always looking for more.

Thank you for this information.
There is indeed some confusion. S ? 625 is a code made up by the Inducks, howver S 71305 is 4 (not 6) pages long.
How do you know this story is S 71305 (or S 76053)?

I was actually pointing out to what I found listed in the INDUCKS database.
According to INDUCKS the drawn script is listed with code S71305
inducks.org/story.php?c=S+71305
But then, at the page, it also points out that “This is actually S76053, which was also given the code S71305”. So, these 2 codes seem to belong to the same story. Both are listed having 4 rows per page. I did not find information on length of the story (either 4 or 6 pages).

Concerning the story, the drawn script (6 pages) was sold on auction some time ago and the site of the auction points out that the story is ca. 1974-1978.
auction.catawiki.com/kavels/11180837-cal-howard-complete-story-goofy-mickey-mouse-6-pages-ca-1974-1978
This is probably true, however, the site also says that Cal Howard “worked on stories for Disney from 1974 for a couple of years”. We all know that this is not true. We can say that he was an editor at Disney from 1974, but he actually started working much earlier and his first story is from 1964. So I am not sure I can accept the former statement attributing the story to ca. 1974-1978.
If the indexer was correct, it may be possible that the story was scripted by Cal Howard in 1971 with a code that then was changed later on, when Carston van Osten did the final art and a new code was assigned to the story.
A second hint that the story is earlier than 1976 are the words “New series” written on page one. This seems to indicate that the story was the first of a new series of stories based on Goofy as a famous historic person, which started no later than 1975.
inducks.org/subseries.php?c=GO+Classics
However, I do not have hard evidences pointing out to either direction, or to a new one (i.e. a different S-code), so I cannot answer your question.

As you know, there is a problem in attributing S-codes to many stories scripted under the Studio Program. As I wrote elsewhere, “This seems to be due to the dismantling of what was formerly called “Comic Strip Department” and the consequent inclusion of the Consumer Products Department in a new building at the Burbank studios. During that moving it happened that the register where Studio Program art director Tom Golberg had recorded over the years credits of scripts and stories produced within the Studio Program, was lost.”

Unfortunately INDUCKS does not list the indexer(s) of this story, but it would be interesting to contact them to ask them why it was put (and modified) that particular code for that story.
BTW, would it be possible to add the indexer to each entry that is listed in the INDUCKS database? This would help in sorting out this kind of riddles.

[Baar Baar Jinx]

Is House of Mouse explicitly stated to take place in Toontown? I'd actually be okay with that, since I consider the animated versions of the Duck and Mouse characters (the ones who interact with Lady and the Tramp, Dumbo and Aladdin) distinct from the Duckburg and Mouseton-based comics characters. After all, neither Mickey nor Donald's hometowns were ever named in the classic cartoons. The new Mickey Mouse shorts can just as easily take place in Toontown too, without bothering me much (I don't think the town in those cartoons has been named as yet, has it?), and Bugs Bunny and Betty Boop can live in a different section of the city if they want, a la Roger Rabbit.  Who owns the rights to the name "Toontown", can Disney freely use it?

[pollux]

Apr 9, 2018 18:36:51 GMT Baar Baar Jinx said:

Is House of Mouse explicitly stated to take place in Toontown?

In the German dub, the city is the same as in the comicbook universe, Entenhausen (Duckburg, but it also includes Mouseton, they're the same here). The name is even mentioned in the intro scene at the start of each episode.