Hey guys, just joined the new forum. Figured that if we want this thing to work out we should have threads to discuss indivual issues... So here we go. (I'm gonna post this message in my threads for DD#10, U$#11 and WDC&S#728)
Translator Jon Gray and I simply felt that as precedent would have it, *most* Goofy-like dogfaced characters—even those who aren't closely related, or aware of it anyhow—are likely to speak in a somewhat "goofy" way.
Thanks to good breeding and strong self-esteem (neither of which brother Güffy had), Roland Gallánt is an exception!
Caveat: don't think about Goof biology too hard. Your brain might break!
I really like the dramatic Duck Avenger cover for this new issue. Strangely, our Comic shop gets more subscriber covers than regular covers for the IDW Disney comics, and I got what looks to be the only copy with the Duck Avenger cover. I liked this Duck Avenger story better than the other two IDW has run so far. Donald as a superhero (or costumed vigilante, to be more accurate) was admittedly not an idea that I thought I'd like to see, but if there are more of them like this one, I could change my mind on the idea easily. (The basic idea in the origin story was fun, too, but I would have warmed up to it a bit more if Donald was less obnoxious in that story.) The Zodiac Stone series has been a lot of fun so far. It has been fun seeing the Ducks and Mickey and Goofy in the same story, even if it seems to go back and forth between the two groups in each new chapter. William Van Horn's Magica DeSpell story was fun, yet Scrooge's personality seemed off in this one. He seemed too willing to take advantage of Magica's amnesia for his own (questionably thought out) personal gain. The Scrooge who earned every penny of his fortune would surely know that magically increasing his wealth goes against his own personal philosophy that he tries to impress upon his nephews. I like how the story ended where it started. In a weird way, this one almost has a George Herriman feel to it, with Magica dancing happily throughout most of the story, almost reminding me of Krazy Kat. While he wasn't throwing bricks, Scrooge is almost as self-interested as Ignatz Mouse, taking advantage of Magica's blissful state of mind.
Donald as a superhero (or costumed vigilante, to be more accurate) was admittedly not an idea that I thought I'd like to see, but if there are more of them like this one, I could change my mind on the idea easily. (The basic idea in the origin story was fun, too, but I would have warmed up to it a bit more if Donald was less obnoxious in that story.)
I've got to say, I haven't really been able to digest the whole concept of the Duck Avenger. There's no way I can see Donald as a costumed vigilante be part of mainstream continuity, at least in my own personal headcanon. Donald is supposed to be an everyman, someone we can all relate to, constantly struggling to hold down a job and be a responsible parent, continually shown up by Gladstone's insufferable luck despite his own valiant efforts, repeatedly humiliated and taken advantage of by Scrooge, and walking on eggshells to be in Daisy's good books. Giving him a secret identity essentially turns him into another Bruce Wayne or Clark Kent, where his public persona is a facade that hides his true heroism. That's not Donald to me. It's the same reason why I don't really like Super Goof stories and tend to view those as "alternate universe" entries as well. If we really need a masked superhero in the Disney Universe, I'd rather just import the Darkwing Duck ensemble into the greater Duck/Mouse continuities. Not that I think that's a great idea or even necessary, but it sure beats having Donald take that role.
Post by Scrooge MacDuck on Feb 6, 2016 18:29:35 GMT
For Super Goof at least, the "his public persona is a facade that hides his true heroism" is wrong: the whole point is that SG mostly wins by accident, although he meant to help anyway.
I've got to say, I haven't really been able to digest the whole concept of the Duck Avenger. There's no way I can see Donald as a costumed vigilante be part of mainstream continuity, at least in my own personal headcanon. Donald is supposed to be an everyman, someone we can all relate to, constantly struggling to hold down a job and be a responsible parent, continually shown up by Gladstone's insufferable luck despite his own valiant efforts, repeatedly humiliated and taken advantage of by Scrooge, and walking on eggshells to be in Daisy's good books. Giving him a secret identity essentially turns him into another Bruce Wayne or Clark Kent, where his public persona is a facade that hides his true heroism. That's not Donald to me. It's the same reason why I don't really like Super Goof stories and tend to view those as "alternate universe" entries as well. If we really need a masked superhero in the Disney Universe, I'd rather just import the Darkwing Duck ensemble into the greater Duck/Mouse continuities. Not that I think that's a great idea or even necessary, but it sure beats having Donald take that role.
I kind of agree with this. It's impossible to imagine Donald-as-Duck-Avenger existing in any kind of regular continuity, so when writers try to force the issue, it creates dissonance. Not that I'm a huge fan of them, but I actually think those New Duck Avenger stories (you can find fan translations of pretty much the whole series, if you look for them) work better, just because they have such a completely different aesthetic from regular duck comics--it's impossible to think that you're even supposed to think of them as existing in the "normal" universe. I feel the same way about Double Duck.
Post by Scrooge MacDuck on Feb 6, 2016 22:54:48 GMT
Well, there certainly is an obvious dissonance in art style and theme, but Double Duck and both PKNA and PK2 are actually supposed to take place in the mainstream Italian continuity.
As for the regular Duck Avenger stories, they were not conceived as something that would fit in the preexisting canon, but rather as a retcon to said canon, a new fact to add as a recurring feature of the character. He seems perfectly natural for someone like me who grew up with comics in which his existence was always common knowledge, but it feels weird to people like you who primarily grew up with Barks and only later learnt about other authors.
Post by Baar Baar Jinx on Feb 6, 2016 23:51:32 GMT
The fact that a Duck Avenger story appears as part of the Zodiac Stone series suggests that we are meant to accept the character as part of the mainstream continuity, rather than as part of a subuniverse. I am not particularly taken with stories that mix the Duck and Mouse universes in general, and have not been impressed with the Zodiac Stone storyline in particular, so while I'm not too perturbed with Duck Avenger's appearance in this particular series, it's just one more factor that puts this story outside my own personal headcanon.
As for Super Goof, I agree that he's a silly superhero rather than a dramatic one, but Goofy having superpowers, even if he can't quite handle them with finesse, jars with the character as he appears in the established Mickey Mouse universes of Gottfredson and Murry (even though Murry drew most of the early Supergoof stories). However, I get the impression that Supergoof stories are more frequently presented in such a way as to be considered outside the traditional continuity if you are so inclined (though that seems to be a very fine line).
The fact that a Duck Avenger story appears as part of the Zodiac Stone series suggests that we are meant to accept the character as part of the mainstream continuity, rather than as part of a subuniverse. I am not particularly taken with stories that mix the Duck and Mouse universes in general, and have not been impressed with the Zodiac Stone storyline in particular, so while I'm not too perturbed with Duck Avenger's appearance in this particular series, it's just one more factor that puts this story outside my own personal headcanon.
Just a matter of taste then; I can't say specifically for the Zodiac Stone story because I haven't read it, but in general I like Mouse/Ducks crossovers a lot.
I hate to feel I'm trying to override people, but I'm pretty sure that we ARE supposed to expect PKNA-PK2-PKNE to be a separate continuity from "mainstream Italian Duck Comics", as is the PK reboot. The whole point of the PK Universe stories was remaking some of those stories to fit said "mainstream Italian Duck Comics", after all.
As for where the Duck Avenger can fit, I personally have no problem imagining it all together- there's no time for all those adventures to happen in a day, sure, having his jobs and adventures with McDuck and being the Duck Avenger and a TNT and DoubleDuck, but there's no space in their lifes for all these stories anyways- even Rosa, with his grounded timeline, has to assume "tv time" going on in some way, otherwise HDL'd be teens by "A Letter From Home"!
I'm overall with Baar Baar Jinx in my headcanon: Ducks and Mice do not mix, and Duck Avenger is just fun fantasy. That said, I strongly believe that we should “let a thousand headcanons bloom”. Also, I appreciate and enjoy scads of stories which do not enter my personal headcanon—that is, they don’t feel to me like stories that “really” happened in my inner Duckburg.
Back to WDCS 728—what did you all think of William Van Horn’s “Woe Is He!”? I thought it was a fun Magica romp. Neat to see what the loopy Magica does for fun! I was amused by the fact that the first thing she does is make it snow...given how many of WVH’s stories are snowy, and how poor Susan Daigle-Leach humorously lamented the difficulty of coloring all those snowy panels. And WVH even alluded to the question of why Magica can’t just magic herself rich—i.e., why does she need the #1 dime in the first place? The way Magica amuses herself when she’s amnesiac is also a comment on how a person’s obsessions can keep them from enjoying life. As Donald often observes that Scrooge is too driven to enjoy life, so Magica’s obsession with the dime keeps her from having much fun. And while we’re speaking of Scrooge having fun—it is a pity that we didn’t get to see him dive into the 10-times-higher binful of money.
Post by Scrooge MacDuck on Feb 8, 2016 10:39:24 GMT
"I'm overall with Baar Baar Jinx in my headcanon: Ducks and Mice do not mix": then how do you fit the hundreds of story where they do meet, be they Italian or other ? It's not just a headcanon, it's the official story that Mouseton and Duckburg are in the same neighborhood.
As for "Woe is he", nice interpretation of how her obsession keeps her from having fun. Definitely a valid point.
I kind of agree with this. It's impossible to imagine Donald-as-Duck-Avenger existing in any kind of regular continuity, so when writers try to force the issue, it creates dissonance. Not that I'm a huge fan of them, but I actually think those New Duck Avenger stories (you can find fan translations of pretty much the whole series, if you look for them) work better, just because they have such a completely different aesthetic from regular duck comics--it's impossible to think that you're even supposed to think of them as existing in the "normal" universe. I feel the same way about Double Duck.
But... Why the Duck Avenger and DoubleDuck couldn't fit into the main duck universe? And why making Goofy a superhero all Mickey stories should lose their meaning?
I mean, I don't put all the stories into a continuity, but the Duck Avenger and DoubleDuck are actually the same Donald Duck, and their stories are actually Donald stories first.
PkNA, Pk² and PkNE are different: they're set in the common Duck universe, but AFTER all duck stories. But that's still Donald.
Dunno, personality-wise you could argue Duck Avenger and DoubleDuck don't quite gel with more common-outside-italy interpretations of Donald. Too collected, too cool. Except of course for Martina's Avenger, which I'm more and more convinced was written with the Barks characters but the cartoon personalities in mind.