Post by duckhuefan on Nov 22, 2020 16:54:43 GMT
TBF if FOWL won, then wouldn't that kinda end up ending on a bit of a downer note especially if season 3 really does turn out to be the end? And we know shows ending with villains winning don't get the best response shown with how they handled Teen Titans' series finale (Things Change) and Gumball's series finale so you can't just have the show end with villains winning.
So who would YOU have picked for season 3's main villain if not FOWL? They had to raise the stakes after Magica and Lunaris so FOWL was a logical step.
And FYI, Frank said the reason he changed Fergus was this:
"Ultimately, the decision was made because this is primarily a show about FAMILY, and the opportunity to see how Scrooge interacts with his parents in light of how he’s acted with the kids up to this point."
Plus there is a change Fergus and Downy may die in the next episode given how an OOC context quote from an emotional scene is "Take care of your brother".
As for Negaduck, Frank said he won't be in season 3 since in his words:
"We tried to fit Jim into a particular episode, but he’s just SUCH a big, rad character that any time he shows up, the entire episode HAS to be all about him. It’s why Negaduck is one of my all time favorite villains, and I didn’t want to shortchange him. We felt we were doing a disservice to his character as well as some other big characters that we love, so we decided now was not his time.
I have a big, epic Jim/Negaduck story in me that I really hope we get to tell someday. It’s a heartbreaker."
And you do realize having Paulsen on board but not voicing Steelbeak is called Remake Cameo which many shows do. And the show has tons of remake cameos like Russi Taylor voicing Young Donald for Last Christmas, Jim Cummings as Jim Starling (aka Negaduck), and they planned to have Alan Young voice Fergus but he died before recording.
Do you at least respect the huge fan following the show has? It is very well liked and considered an amazing love letter to Disney Afternoon and the comics by tons of fans (the fact it has three seasons and an upcoming attraction in Disney World has to say something on the success). Only people not liking it are the same nostalgic ones that were gonna criticize no matter which direction they took so there isn't really pleasing those kinds of nostalgic purist fans.
My problem is more with the depiction of the High Command and its implications in comparison to the original Darkwing Duck show.
The F.O.W.L. High Command were a serious threat, and were clearly beyond the scope of what Darkwing or even S.H.U.S.H. in general could handle. They were in control and were untouchable; Darkwing could always get the better of their agents, like Ammonia Pine or Steelbeak (and even at that, Steelbeak gave him a lot of trouble), but he never even got close to the High Command.
It's also shown when Taurus Bulba is brought back; to show that he's still a very serious threat, he attacks the High Command and does his own thing - that's how they show that he means business, and is a legitimate danger in ways that the other villains in the show aren't.
The High Command aren't characters that we're supposed to know - they're the shady leaders of F.O.W.L. and are beyond actually defeating, even for S.H.U.S.H. itself.
Showing their actual personalities - and showing that they can be bested by literal children - defeats the purpose of them altogether.
I haven't seen Gumball's finale, but Teen Titans is a strange one.
You can give some leeway because of the show getting axed and plans having to be changed around, but it still seems bizarre.
After the triumphant finale in the penultimate episode, it's an odd extra piece that doesn't feel like it fits.
It feels like a strange choice; if they had to meet an episode quota, they would have been better off having a simple epilogue or expanding something earlier in the season.
I don't think it's quite comparable to Ducktales, though; I'm pretty sure the show will be getting a fourth season (and, even if not, they seem to be following a format of a story arc per season), but the problem with Teen Titans wasn't the villain winning. The problem was bringing Terra back, only to say "She's lost her memory, get over it Beast Boy"; it's an unnecessary addition that doesn't benefit the story in any way.
How is F.O.W.L. the next logical step?
Like, I don't think that a 'main villain' is necessary in the first place (Plenty of great stories can be told without an antagonist if you give other stakes that are worth being invested in), but if there absolutely has to be one, why F.O.W.L?
I find who I'd pick to be a difficult one to answer; I'd have done a lot of things differently that would definitely change the vision of the series altogether.
Even if I don't like the idea of F.O.W.L. being the villains, though, I feel like I'd be fine if they changed it to some of their higher ranking agents being the antagonists - having the High Command themselves as actual encountered antagonists is one of my main issues here.
The original story was about family, too.
Scrooge, for most of his life, can't be called a hero; he teeters very dangerously on the line between hero and villain. Glomgold in the comics show that it wouldn't take much for Scrooge to be a truly despicable person.
The reason, in Rosa's stories at least, that Scrooge doesn't become that person is because of Fergus. And this show spits all over Rosa's version of Fergus.
First off, having him be bitter that Scrooge left home - he was PROUD of Scrooge for leaving and making something of himself. He and the family struggled and did get upset with Scrooge for being away and not writing too much, but he was never so hateful towards him for it. When Scrooge comes back to Scotland in Life and Times, it becomes obvious that he just doesn't belong there any more - and you don't see Fergus being nasty about it. He knows that Scrooge has become his own man, and he couldn't be prouder.
Then there's the fact that he acts as if him giving Burt the dime means that Scrooge's success is down to him. Pointing to Scrooge's dime and saying "I gave you that." is a joke. And for that matter, Scrooge NEVER begrudged Fergus or the rest of his family for being poor. Hearing Scrooge McDuck tell his father that "You never gave me anything" is sickening. When Scrooge felt guilty about turning into a nasty person in Life and Times, it was Fergus' words that made him realize what he was becoming - even if he ended up ignoring the epiphany, the thought of Fergus was the only thing that brought him back, even briefly.
Scrooge and Fergus love each other - they respect each other. Scrooge knows that life wasn't easy for his family, and did his best to support them in his travels, even coming back home when he was needed. Likewise, Fergus knew that Scrooge had a calling and, no matter what he felt or wanted, never stood in the way of that or begrudged him for it.
Discarding such a beautifully written relationship for a generic sitcom plot... I still maintain that that was the worst thing that the show has done.
No matter what they change, they can't change what they've already done - they've had Scrooge and Fergus hating each other for years. Even if they do a 180 on that, it doesn't change that the relationship is fundamentally different and that's entirely for the worse.
I mightn't be following you correctly on the Negaduck point, so apologies if I misunderstood you here.
What I'm getting is that you say that Angones is claiming himself to be a huge fan of Negaduck and, as such, doesn't want to portray him incorrectly.
Like... they've shortchanged plenty of characters that people love, even in Darkwing's own cast. Great that they avoided it for Negaduck, but that doesn't mean much to fans of other properties or characters that weren't given the same consideration.
That seems... odd for a remake cameo, though? Like, Russi Taylor makes perfect sense for obvious reasons. Jim Cummings I'm not so sure about, seeing as he was voicing Darkwing and is still voicing Negaduck, so 'cameo' doesn't really fit here. Alan Young as Fergus would have made sense, but wow am I glad that didn't happen.
Like, the remake cameo usually tends to be there for more major characters, right? Like, it seems odd that they'd get Rob Paulsen on board for one, but not Terry McGovern? It doesn't feel to me like they got him on-board specifically as a tribute to him voicing Steelbeak.
I suppose that depends on what you mean by 'respect' - I know that there are plenty of people that like the show, and power to them.
The show has plenty of good points - some of its stories are interesting, the humour can be pretty solid at times and I've liked just about every original character they've made (Manny was overused, but even then, I don't dislike him). Plus, if you don't closely follow the shows or the comics and don't have anything to compare this show to, you'll probably enjoy it a lot more.
The idea that it's a love letter to the comics is absurd, though - making either inferior versions of beloved characters or turning them into something completely different (Gyro, Glomgold) doesn't show love for those characters. Constantly referencing the source material when it's irrelevant or unfitting doesn't show an appreciation for it. Most of the people claiming that it's a love letter to the comics or even somewhat faithful know nothing about them - the fact that so many people felt the need to hop in and say that "ACTUALLY Gyro was super mean and nasty in the comics too!" (which he wasn't) says as much.
I can't find it now, but there was footage from Comic Con (I think? Some convention any way) where they were showing off previews for season 2. Fethry was shown and one person cheered. Rockerduck was shown and the same person cheered (to the point that Angones acknowledged them as a 'big comics fan'). Three Caballeros were shown and the crowd erupts.
I'll try to find it again and, if I do, I'll link it in this post.
EDIT: No wonder I couldn't find it, it was taken down. I'll keep looking to see if I can find it, but I've had no luck so far.
Now, for the Disney Afternoon, that's more debatable. Not having seen season 3 yet, I can't really comment since that's where it seems to become more prominent, and I don't know enough about Don Karnage to offer much of value on him.
As for the comment about nostalgic purist fans... have you read through these threads? Plenty of the supposed nostalgic purists here have offered praise on certain elements and character interpretations.
Liking older material and wanting to see it represented well isn't being a purist - are people purists for wanting Donald to actually be a prominent character? For pointing out that some of the changes being made change fundamental aspects of the characters and stories negatively?
These comics (and shows) mean a lot to some people - seeing them be changed to such a drastic degree for a weak payoff isn't going to sit well.
I can acknowledge the show's success and don't begrudge its fans one bit, but this idea that it's extremely faithful to the comics is outright incorrect.
It's a pretty solid show by its own merits, but as an adaptation it's pretty bad.
But one note for Gyro, Launchpad, and Glomgold. They do take some elements of Duke Balooney on Glomgold so there is some inspiration from the comics even if its in more of a different direction. Launchpad's idiocy does get toned down as the show goes on and Gyro being more cynical and mean is addressed in Astro BOYD (I know you haven't gotten access to season 3 yet but if you do, just know Astro BOYD does address the issue of Gyro being meaner).
I accept that people are always gonna have differing perspectives on things and not always agree.
I'll just let you have your opinions and continue to pray the series gets a fourth season.