Ludwig Von Drake

[Baar Baar Jinx]

Jul 27, 2017 17:23:38 GMT Scrooge MacDuck said:

Well, some people think the two make a cute couple, regardless of whether it's narratively necessary.

Okay, I concede that. But I'd argue Rosa, the originator of the theory, isn't one of them. I don't have his exact quote delineating the relationship on hand, but didn't he say something like, "I liked Ludwig Von Drake as a child, wanted him to be on the tree somehow, maybe he's married to Matilda, that's one of the few ways I see he could be Donald's uncle?" In other words, he was fishing for ways to make the uncle-nephew relationship work, and found this one. It wasn't that he thought they were a natural match for each other. And since it's now apparent that Ludwig was meant to be a bachelor and still Donald's uncle, I think Rosa's original theory doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

Also, rereading this thread, I realized a question I had has yet to be answered: did Ludwig actually say in an animated feature that he "was a little rebel and took his mother's last name," as was alluded to in a previous post?

[RobbK1]

Jun 28, 2017 16:29:45 GMT Scroogerello said:

Now, there's usually some discussion among Disney Duck fans as to how Ludwig is related to Donald, and yesterday, I came across this video, part of "The Hunting Instinct" (1961):

www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJhK295Lhpc

Not only does Walt Disney introduce Ludwig as Donald's uncle, he specifically described him as being the brother of Donald's father. Very interesting; makes me wonder whether this idea was expanded upon in later episodes (they are so hard to find on the web!). 

So, then we have to believe that Donald's FATHER was born and raised in Vienna, AUSTRIA???  Walt Disney, himself, on his TV show mentioned that Ludwig was from Vienna.  His speech has (not by accident) some of the characteristics of The Viennese accent in English (attempted to have been based somewhat on that of Sigmund Freud).

[Baar Baar Jinx]

Jul 27, 2017 17:43:52 GMT RobbK1 said:

So, then we have to believe that Donald's FATHER was born and raised in Vienna, AUSTRIA???  Walt Disney, himself, on his TV show mentioned that Ludwig was from Vienna.  His speech has (not by accident) some of the characteristics of The Viennese accent in English (attempted to have been based somewhat on that of Sigmund Freud).

Yes. That, and the fact that Ludwig's last name is "Von Drake" make this proposed relationship problematic.

[Scrooge MacDuck]

Jul 27, 2017 17:48:56 GMT Baar Baar Jinx said:

Jul 27, 2017 17:43:52 GMT RobbK1 said:

So, then we have to believe that Donald's FATHER was born and raised in Vienna, AUSTRIA???  Walt Disney, himself, on his TV show mentioned that Ludwig was from Vienna.  His speech has (not by accident) some of the characteristics of The Viennese accent in English (attempted to have been based somewhat on that of Sigmund Freud).

Yes. That, and the fact that Ludwig's last name is "Von Drake" make this proposed relationship problematic.

Re-my theory that Quackmore and Ludwig were half-brother through Humperdink's first marriage to an Austrian lady, who moved back to Vienna after she divorced Humperdink, which is where she raised Ludwig. 

[Baar Baar Jinx]

Jul 27, 2017 17:56:04 GMT Scrooge MacDuck said:

Jul 27, 2017 17:48:56 GMT Baar Baar Jinx said:

Yes. That, and the fact that Ludwig's last name is "Von Drake" make this proposed relationship problematic.

Re-my theory that Quackmore and Ludwig were half-brother through Humperdink's first marriage to an Austrian lady, who moved back to Vienna after she divorced Humperdink, which is where she raised Ludwig. 

I read it before and, as I said, I do like the basics of the theory, but do you propose also that Ludwig's mother later remarried, and that her second husband's name was "Von Drake", which was bestowed upon young Ludwig? If so, the story is almost  identical to Rumpus' (except that Ludwig was not kept in the dark about it as Rumpus was). Or do you believe that "Von Drake" is his mother's name? Again, did Ludwig actually say that he took his mother's name in an animated feature (I believe you said he did, but which one)?

[Scrooge MacDuck]

Jul 27, 2017 18:10:19 GMT Baar Baar Jinx said:

Jul 27, 2017 17:56:04 GMT Scrooge MacDuck said:

Re-my theory that Quackmore and Ludwig were half-brother through Humperdink's first marriage to an Austrian lady, who moved back to Vienna after she divorced Humperdink, which is where she raised Ludwig. 

I read it before and, as I said, I do like the basics of the theory, but do you propose also that Ludwig's mother later remarried, and that her second husband's name was "Von Drake", which was bestowed upon young Ludwig? If so, the story is almost  identical to Rumpus' (except that Ludwig was not kept in the dark about it as Rumpus was). Or do you believe that "Von Drake" is his mother's name? Again, did Ludwig actually say that he took his mother's name in an animated feature (I believe you said he did, but which one)?

I do think Von Drake was his mother's maiden name to which she reverted after the divorce. The "he took his mother's name" thing is a secondhand quote that I can't find anymore, though, since a slightly different version of it popped elsewhere, it had to come from somewhere else than my fevered mind. Even if he didn't, though, it's perfectly reasonable to assume that, if Ludwig was born after the divorce, he wouldn't have taken his genetic father's name.

[Ramapith]

There's another episode of the 1950s Disney TV show that dramatizes Donald's creation.

The animators discuss what to call their new character, settling on Donald Drake; then they decide that because it sounds better, they'll "give him his mother's maiden name": Duck.

If this is as canonical as an introduction of Ludwig as Donald's father's brother (coming from the same source), then it would allow for Donald's father to have the name (Von) Drake, with the Ducks of the family on his mother's side. It's totally incongruent with the comics, but the TV shows often are...

[Scrooge MacDuck]

Jul 28, 2017 7:32:24 GMT Ramapith said:

There's another episode of the 1950s Disney TV show that dramatizes Donald's creation.

The animators discuss what to call their new character, settling on Donald Drake; then they decide that because it sounds better, they'll "give him his mother's maiden name": Duck.

If this is as canonical as an introduction of Ludwig as Donald's father's brother (coming from the same source), then it would allow for Donald's father to have the name (Von) Drake, with the Ducks of the family on his mother's side. It's totally incongruent with the comics, but the TV shows often are...

There might well be a connection, good catch. Though I think in this case the "Duck is his mother's maiden name" line is more of a pun ("Drake" meaning male duck and "Duck" female duck) than an actual genealogical idea.

[Baar Baar Jinx]

Okay, so apparently this 1961 story, never reprinted in the US, chronicles Ludwig's arrival in Duckburg and his introduction to the rest of the Duck family. I have never had the good fortune of reading it myself. If there's anybody here who has, does it cast any light on Ludwig's place on the family tree?

And, how did Taliaferro handle Ludwig's introduction in the comic strips? He portrayed Scrooge as an out-of-town visiting relative whom Donald and the boys had never met, even though Scrooge was well-established in the comic books by then.

[RobbK1]

Jul 28, 2017 14:06:35 GMT Baar Baar Jinx said:

Okay, so apparently this 1961 story, never reprinted in the US, chronicles Ludwig's arrival in Duckburg and his introduction to the rest of the Duck family. I have never had the good fortune of reading it myself. If there's anybody here who has, does it cast any light on Ludwig's place on the family tree?

And, how did Taliaferro handle Ludwig's introduction in the comic strips? He portrayed Scrooge as an out-of-town visiting relative whom Donald and the boys had never met, even though Scrooge was well-established in the comic books by then.

I have that Dell Ludwig Von Drake #1 from 1961.  If I remember correctly, Donald showed a family tree, drawn by Tony Strobl (he drew all the stories in all 4 LVD Dell comic books).  The family tree in which Ludwig appeared was NOT a "serious one" (e.g. Ludwig was alone on a branch, as was Donald and all the other regular Duck characters.  So, no real information was gained by looking at it.  There were no assumed or not-yet-used characters on it.  I don't remember if that family tree was in one of the 4 Dell LVD issues, or if it was in a Tony Strobl drawn story in a late Dell Donald Duck issue.  I seem to remember in the first story in LVD #1, Ludwig was referred to as "a distant relative".  I don't remember him being referred to as Donald's uncle (or from which side of The Duck/McDuck family he came).

Unfortunately, I'm in my German abode at the present time, so I am not with my US non-Barks comics.  I will not be there for some months.  So, I hope someone else, who has those issues, will let us know the answer.

[Zantaf]

Jul 28, 2017 14:27:17 GMT RobbK1 said:

Jul 28, 2017 14:06:35 GMT Baar Baar Jinx said:

Okay, so apparently this 1961 story, never reprinted in the US, chronicles Ludwig's arrival in Duckburg and his introduction to the rest of the Duck family. I have never had the good fortune of reading it myself. If there's anybody here who has, does it cast any light on Ludwig's place on the family tree?

And, how did Taliaferro handle Ludwig's introduction in the comic strips? He portrayed Scrooge as an out-of-town visiting relative whom Donald and the boys had never met, even though Scrooge was well-established in the comic books by then.

I have that Dell Ludwig Von Drake #1 from 1961.  If I remember correctly, Donald showed a family tree, drawn by Tony Strobl (he drew all the stories in all 4 LVD Dell comic books).  The family tree in which Ludwig appeared was NOT a "serious one" (e.g. Ludwig was alone on a branch, as was Donald and all the other regular Duck characters.  So, no real information was gained by looking at it.  There were no assumed or not-yet-used characters on it.  I don't remember if that family tree was in one of the 4 Dell LVD issues, or if it was in a Tony Strobl drawn story in a late Dell Donald Duck issue.  I seem to remember in the first story in LVD #1, Ludwig was referred to as "a distant relative".  I don't remember him being referred to as Donald's uncle (or from which side of The Duck/McDuck family he came).

Unfortunately, I'm in my German abode at the present time, so I am not with my US non-Barks comics.  I will not be there for some months.  So, I hope someone else, who has those issues, will let us know the answer.

No information on Ludwig's place on the family tree is given in W LVD 1-02. As you can see, he is just referred to as a "distinguished relative" (pretty close to what RobbK1 remembers) on page 1 and that's about it.


About the Strobl-drawn family tree, it must be this one, from the story "The Family Tree Spree" (W LVD 3-03). Donald buys a phony family tree (the one seen on the 1st page) from a crook genealogist that shows him to be the descendant of heroes and royalty. Ludwig uncovers the truth but he's captured by the genealogist. Donald frees him and at the end Ludwig presents him with his real family tree. Here's the last page:

[drakeborough]

Jul 27, 2017 17:23:38 GMT Scrooge MacDuck said:

Well, some people think the two make a cute couple, regardless of whether it's narratively necessary.

One who thinks they make a cute couple is Alberto Becattini. In his character profile of Ludwig in a newspaper article I still have (Corriere della Sera, 4 April 2005), he wrote "[...] But even scholars have a twin soul. So, between an adventure and an enigma, Ludwig won and married Matilda, Scrooge's sister, capable of seeing over the smokescreen of his speeches the timid, tender and discreet charm of the scholar". I like that image.

Jul 27, 2017 17:35:00 GMT Baar Baar Jinx said:

Jul 27, 2017 17:23:38 GMT Scrooge MacDuck said:

Well, some people think the two make a cute couple, regardless of whether it's narratively necessary.

Okay, I concede that. But I'd argue Rosa, the originator of the theory, isn't one of them. I don't have his exact quote delineating the relationship on hand, but didn't he say something like, "I liked Ludwig Von Drake as a child, wanted him to be on the tree somehow, maybe he's married to Matilda, that's one of the few ways I see he could be Donald's uncle?" In other words, he was fishing for ways to make the uncle-nephew relationship work, and found this one.

This is his exact quote:

Above is my rough-draft of the Family Tree which I submitted to Egmont before completing the final version. Here you'll see some interesting ideas that were omitted from the final tree either by my choice or Egmont's. They are:

Professor Ludwig Von Drake — Not a Barks creation, he was created in 1961 to be the animated host of Disney's new TV series "The Wonderful World of Color"; RCA sponsored this new show to help sell new color TVs. Ludwig was short-lived in American comics; appearing only in a few issues in 1961. However, Barks did use him (probably on orders from his editors) in a one-page gag (US 54, 1964), thereby making him part of my Barksian Duck Universe. I decided that he would make a perfect husband for $crooge's sister Matilda. When Matilda left Duckburg in 1930, I figure she moved back home to Europe and eventually met Austrian professor Ludwig Von Drake. This would make Ludwig Donald's uncle, just as he is said to be. But the Egmont editors of 1993 did not like the character Ludwig Von Drake and told me not to include him in my final Tree... so out went poor LVD. However, in my own version of the Tree, Ludwig is the husband of Matilda and uncle of Donald. (He must have been away from home on a lecture tour during the events involving Matilda in my "A Letter from Home" (see vol. 9).

[...]

Jul 27, 2017 17:35:00 GMT Baar Baar Jinx said:

It wasn't that he thought they were a natural match for each other. And since it's now apparent that Ludwig was meant to be a bachelor and still Donald's uncle, I think Rosa's original theory doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

While I don't think the supposed marriage between Matilda and Ludwig is an important matter, I am curious of something: does you theory that the animated and comic book version of Disney characters are basically different also apply to Ludwig?

Jul 28, 2017 7:32:24 GMT Ramapith said:

There's another episode of the 1950s Disney TV show that dramatizes Donald's creation.

Do you remember the title of the episode?

Jul 28, 2017 14:06:35 GMT Baar Baar Jinx said:

And, how did Taliaferro handle Ludwig's introduction in the comic strips? He portrayed Scrooge as an out-of-town visiting relative whom Donald and the boys had never met, even though Scrooge was well-established in the comic books by then.

Here is the answer.

[Baar Baar Jinx]

Jul 28, 2017 18:47:57 GMT drakeborough said:

One who thinks they make a cute couple is Alberto Becattini. In his character profile of Ludwig in a newspaper article I still have (Corriere della Sera, 4 April 2005), he wrote "[...] But even scholars have a twin soul. So, between an adventure and an enigma, Ludwig won and married Matilda, Scrooge's sister, capable of seeing over the smokescreen of his speeches the timid, tender and discreet charm of the scholar". I like that image.

I will admit that's well-written.

This is his exact quote:

Is this the only time he commented on the matter? I seem to recall an earlier statement from him that suggested more clearly that he was searching for a way to add Ludwig in and chose to "arrange" a marriage with Matilda because that was the easiest way to do it. Does anyone have access to the text that Gladstone published in WDC&S#600, where the Duck family tree was first published in the US? That may be what I'm remembering. 

While I don't think the supposed marriage between Matilda and Ludwig is an important matter, I am curious of something: does you theory that the animated and comic book version of Disney characters are basically different also apply to Ludwig?

Yes, it should, and I know what you're going to say: why then should anything stated about Cartoon-Ludwig (such as his being Donald's father's brother or being a bachelor) apply to Comics-Ludwig? And you'd have a point. So I guess it comes down to personal preferences. To me, Ludwig somehow fits better as being related to Donald on his father's side and both he and Matilda seem to be suited to being unmarried for life, but I understand that others feel differently (and this late in the game, even a published story by showing them married, like the story showing Della alive and lost in space, would represent just "one version" of events). The point I was trying to make was that if Rosa was trying to suggest that having Ludwig be married to Matilda was the only way he could be an uncle of Donald's, then I disagree. 

Here is the answer.

Heh. Daisy says, "He's sort of an uncle of yours, isn't he?" No follow-up or further discussion. Sums it all up nicely.

[Zantaf]

Jul 28, 2017 19:29:05 GMT Baar Baar Jinx said:

Here's the text from WDC&S#600:

[Monkey_Feyerabend]

OT 1 (on Rosa and Fethry)
If American comics - the only one Rosa could read, I am told - had seen "little or nothing" of "this Fethry Duck guy", how could he be so assertive in calling him "kinda irritating", and even expressing "thankfulness" for not having seen much of him. (Inconsistent judgment not just told to some friend in front of a beer, but written down on a goddam' editorial on WDC&S, for the history to remember.)
That almost matches when he says "Mickey Mouse could be a great character if someone would do to him what Barks did to Donald" and ten minutes later "No, I've never read Gottfredson".
I love so much this man's work, and also him in a way, for his intelligent and dedicated way of handling the duck world. But sometimes he comes out with these unjustified prejudices, and my arms fall. That's kinda sad (and irritating).


OT 2 (on you and Rosa and Fethry)
You know I do not care about family trees and continuities, but speaking of Fethry...how do you guys handle the fact that in Rosa's tree Fethry is not related to Scrooge in any way, but in all stories where they both appear Scrooge treats him as a nephew, just like Donald, or at least like Gladstone.
How do you solve the equation? Do you imagine that Scrooge decided to open his heart to this particular lovely duck, so to treat him like a clan member despite him not being one? That sounds inconsistent with Scrooge personality - no matter what author is writing him. And even if Scrooge would be able to such an open generosity... of all the ducks in the word, why making that exception for that Fethry Duck guy?