Post by Scrooge MacDuck on Aug 5, 2017 14:13:09 GMT
Warning: Please refrain from extended discussions on how "well" any stories we might find dealt with the issue it focused on. I think this might end up causing needless, off-topic arguments. So, I was wondering… do you know of any stories that dealt with unusual, "serious" topics that might be considered inappopriate by some censors? Things like mere, "normal" death don't count. Here are a few possible tracks:
Cancer or other deadly diseases?
Abortion? (Unlikely, but you never know.)
Abusive parents or other such child abuse? (Very possible in older Italian stories, but nothing comes to mind.)
More "realistic" World War II? (This one interests me most. During the war there were all sorts of strips and cartoons dealing with the war, like the Gottfredson Secret of Moook serial and the famous Fuehrer's Face cartoon, and they did so in a relatively light-hearted fashion, but I don't know of any stories that were created after the war, when the true horror of what the WAKs had done was discovered. Were concentration and extermination camps mentioned in any Disney comics or cartoon? If they were not, would you assume they existed anyway, or that the Disneyverse WAKs were — relatively speaking, of course — "nicer" than their real-life counterparts? What would racism in the Disney universe even look like, anyway? Would Jews be depicted a single anthropomorphic species?)
Warning: Please refrain from extended discussions on how "well" any stories we might find dealt with the issue it focused on. I think this might end up causing needless, off-topic arguments. So, I was wondering… do you know of any stories that dealt with unusual, "serious" topics that might be considered inappopriate by some censors? Things like mere, "normal" death don't count. Here are a few possible tracks:
Cancer or other deadly diseases?
Abortion? (Unlikely, but you never know.)
Abusive parents or other such child abuse? (Very possible in older Italian stories, but nothing comes to mind.)
More "realistic" World War II? (This one interests me most. During the war there were all sorts of strips and cartoons dealing with the war, like the Gottfredson Secret of Moook serial and the famous Fuehrer's Face cartoon, and they did so in a relatively light-hearted fashion, but I don't know of any stories that were created after the war, when the true horror of what the WAKs had done was discovered. Were concentration and extermination camps mentioned in any Disney comics or cartoon? If they were not, would you assume they existed anyway, or that the Disneyverse WAKs were — relatively speaking, of course — "nicer" than their real-life counterparts? What would racism in the Disney universe even look like, anyway? Would Jews be depicted a single anthropomorphic species?)
What Disney fan could imagine Disney comics or animated cartoons dealing with these subjects? I think we all know the answer to these questions. Disney even showing Hitler and Japanese soldiers in Mickey Mouse stories, in a relatively light-hearted way was amazing to me. I don't think Disney would have ever wanted to touch upon the controversial subject of racism, child abuse or sex in any form.
Warning: Please refrain from extended discussions on how "well" any stories we might find dealt with the issue it focused on. I think this might end up causing needless, off-topic arguments. So, I was wondering… do you know of any stories that dealt with unusual, "serious" topics that might be considered inappopriate by some censors? Things like mere, "normal" death don't count. Here are a few possible tracks:
Cancer or other deadly diseases?
Abortion? (Unlikely, but you never know.)
Abusive parents or other such child abuse? (Very possible in older Italian stories, but nothing comes to mind.)
More "realistic" World War II? (This one interests me most. During the war there were all sorts of strips and cartoons dealing with the war, like the Gottfredson Secret of Moook serial and the famous Fuehrer's Face cartoon, and they did so in a relatively light-hearted fashion, but I don't know of any stories that were created after the war, when the true horror of what the WAKs had done was discovered. Were concentration and extermination camps mentioned in any Disney comics or cartoon? If they were not, would you assume they existed anyway, or that the Disneyverse WAKs were — relatively speaking, of course — "nicer" than their real-life counterparts? What would racism in the Disney universe even look like, anyway? Would Jews be depicted a single anthropomorphic species?)
What Disney fan could imagine Disney comics or animated cartoons dealing with these subjects? I think we all know the answer to these questions. Disney even showing Hitler and Japanese soldiers in Mickey Mouse stories, in a relatively light-hearted way was amazing to me. I don't think Disney would have ever wanted to touch upon the controversial subject of racism, child abuse or sex in any form.
Yes, it's unlikely, of course. But some would argue it is problematic to shoshowing Hitler and "Nutzy" Germany in the comics and cartoons once, and then never picking up on it afterwards, leaving one to assume the in-universe N-azi Party was overall a gang of harmless villains no worse than Pete or the Phantom Blot.
Post by Monkey_Feyerabend on Aug 5, 2017 16:28:19 GMT
I read that this Christmas story treats the theme of death, or better the theme of dealing with the missing of dead people. But I do not know how deeply or in what extension. Is it enough serious? (This is the first long story by writer Pietro Zemelo, a young comics artist who started storyboarding for Topolino in 2014. Reading the comments on the Italian forum, he seems to be appreciated. But his stories have not yet found their way to France, so I cannot judge.)
The recent Cafè Zombo by Loisel - set in 1929 or 1930 - treats the issues of poverty, capitalist exploitation, drugs and the role of women in the thirties. All in a bit cynical and violent way, for the standards of Mickey Mouse. The only long spoiler-free comment on the inducks page is mine, in case you want to know what I think of this French experiment.
Were concentration and extermination camps mentioned in any Disney comics or cartoon? If they were not, would you assume they existed anyway, or that the Disneyverse WAKs were — relatively speaking, of course — "nicer" than their real-life counterparts? What would racism in the Disney universe even look like, anyway? Would Jews be depicted a single anthropomorphic species?)
That was already done in one of the most famous comics of all time, Maus by Art Spiegelman, so repeating the idea would be impracticable. In any case, the holocaust is clearly out of the range of themes coverable by Disney stories. Actually, it is a complicated theme for any kind of storyteller. Many think that the holocaust is such a tragic event that it should always be depicted (in movies, theatre, comics, novels) without sweetening or filtrations. Spiegelman himself expressed more or less this kind of opinion, maybe when commenting Benigni's movie La Vita è Bella (Life is Beautiful), if I remember correctly. Indeed, if you have read Maus - as I hope you all have! - you know that there is no real comic filtration or simplification of the tragedy in that book.
Were concentration and extermination camps mentioned in any Disney comics or cartoon? If they were not, would you assume they existed anyway, or that the Disneyverse WAKs were — relatively speaking, of course — "nicer" than their real-life counterparts? What would racism in the Disney universe even look like, anyway? Would Jews be depicted a single anthropomorphic species?)
That was already done in one of the most famous comics of all time, Maus by Art Spiegelman, so repeating the idea would be impracticable. In any case, the holocaust is clearly out of the range of themes coverable by Disney stories. Actually, it is a complicated theme for any kind of storyteller. Many think that the holocaust is such a tragic event that it should always be depicted (in movies, theatre, comics, novels) without sweetening or filtrations. Spiegelman himself expressed more or less this kind of opinion, maybe when commenting Benigni's movie La Vita è Bella (Life is Beautiful), if I remember correctly. Indeed, if you have read Maus - as I hope you all have! - you know that there is no real comic filtration or simplification of the tragedy in that book.
Maus did a good job of portraying The Holocaust in comic form. It can't be done using the normal, classical Disney Comics characters.
Only thing I can readily think of is when Mickey was mistaken for a pedophile in "Mickey Mouse Outwits the Phantom Blot". It's not really a discussion so much as a two-strip uncomfortable balance between humor and seriousness that I could've done without.
Though I suppose in terms of sexual harassment/assault, Gottfredson also gave Minnie two great lines in "Mr. Slicker and the Egg Robbers" and "Treasure Island" that stand out among the laissez-faire approach he usually committed to. Namely "Gee, Mickey, I never thought I was encouraging Mr. Slicker when I let him call on me -- I never cared for him -- I was just interested in his city ways." and "I know -- but every time they look at me I feel like -- like -- well, I'm scared! I'm scared to DEATH!" The first is a pretty nice comment about reasoning that's unfortunately not killed off yet ("What were you wearing?" "Did you do anything to make him think that you were interested?" "Why would you smile if you don't want him?") and it draws the story to Minnie in a way that, even if for an instant, betrays how ridiculous it is to portray Mickey as the victim of Slicker charming the whole town when it is Minnie who is the one that can't escape. The second, which is in response to Mickey being all upbeat telling her he'll protect her, demonstrates male naivity towards a reality women have to think about daily. And, no, he in fact couldn't protect her. He saved her, sure, but there's a difference between protecting and saving. Minnie had to protect herself.
Post by Monkey_Feyerabend on Aug 6, 2017 14:07:36 GMT
It did not feel like 'pedophile' to me that passage in MMOPB. I mean, to the folks it looks like Mickey is being mean to the little girl. But not that he is trying to kidnap her. (And by the way, child sexual abusing is not the only thing you can do with a kidnapped girl.) You reading that couple of strips as a reference to pedophily may be a reflex of how obsessed our society is with the fear of this abstract monster (who lives more in our minds than out there in the real word).
It did not feel like 'pedophile' to me that passage in MMOPB. I mean, to the folks it looks like Mickey is being mean to the little girl. But not that he is trying to kidnap her. (And by the way, child sexual abusing is not the only thing you can do with a kidnapped girl.) You reading that couple of strips as a reference to pedophily may be a reflex of how obsessed how society is with the fear of this abstract monster (who lives more in our minds than out there in the real word).
People forgot there was a time when kidnapping children for ransom was a standard procedure, at least in the movies and stories I knew growing up. I think as adults these days, it's became a very different world given the way society thinks about these matters.
I think I know a story in which Scrooge was infected with a severe disease that made he fall into coma for years. Donald and the kids went into future to seek for therapy.
Slightly off topic. What do you think is the boundary between "normal" death and death of disorders & diseases? Huntington disease and rabies are examples that I don’t think would ever appear in Disney comics, but even influenza is not that much better. Death of a known cause is a sensitive topic, IMHO.
Only thing I can readily think of is when Mickey was mistaken for a pedophile in "Mickey Mouse Outwits the Phantom Blot". It's not really a discussion so much as a two-strip uncomfortable balance between humor and seriousness that I could've done without.
Donald was also mistaken for a pedophile when he met the baby version of his mother in Scrooge's dream (Don Rosa's story).