Well, it's pretty much completely accepted now except by a few people that Rosa's family tree is canon, so you might not get a lot of leverage around here with that one. And there's really no need to insult Rosa.
I guess I'm one of the few people that think Grandma is Donald's mother (she calls him "Son" in the Taliaferro strips). I also don't think she is more than a coup;e years older than Scrooge (if that). I have other problems with Rosa's Duck Family Tree.
I guess I'm one of the few people that think Grandma is Donald's mother (she calls him "Son" in the Taliaferro strips). I also don't think she is more than a coup;e years older than Scrooge (if that). I have other problems with Rosa's Duck Family Tree.
It's fine with me if someone decides that GD is Donald's mother. I don't think her calling him "Son" is evidence one way or another, though. In the early 20th century in the USA, older adults, whether related or unrelated, often called a younger man or boy "Son." It wouldn't have been at all strange for a grandparent to call a young man "Son." As has been pointed out on this forum, that's said in Disney strips/comics by other characters who are clearly not the parent of the one they're addressing.
So you are not swayed by Barks' sketch of the family tree? I figure that probably does show us how Barks came to think of the Ducks' relationships.
No, Barks thought up the 2 trees hastily, without pondering over many of the stories he wrote. They had some relationships different from what he said in person. He changed what he had stated earlier in some cases.
I agree. I think Barks, overall, didn't care much about how exactly the ducks were related, and never had a definite fixed family tree in mind; it allowed for new additions or alterations to the family whenever a story required it, just like how Scrooge and Gladstone emerged without needing an explanation. In that sense, Rosa's family tree sort of ruined things by establishing an "official", "canon" family tree that now all stories have to adhere to.
This reminds me of a very funny moment from an interview with Barks during the 1990s:
Interviewer: We're very curious in Sweden, because [...] we need to know if he's the mother's brother or the father's brother, and there have been great discussions about it for many years. How is Scrooge related to Donald?
Barks: Well, Scrooge is Donald's uncle, I guess...(laughs) He'd better be!
No, Barks thought up the 2 trees hastily, without pondering over many of the stories he wrote. They had some relationships different from what he said in person. He changed what he had stated earlier in some cases.
I agree. I think Barks, overall, didn't care much about how exactly the ducks were related, and never had a definite fixed family tree in mind; it allowed for new additions or alterations to the family whenever a story required it, just like how Scrooge and Gladstone emerged without needing an explanation. In that sense, Rosa's family tree sort of ruined things by establishing an "official", "canon" family tree that now all stories have to adhere to.
Yes, Barks cared very little about continuity, consistency, etc., whether for the nature of familial relationships or, say, the location of Duckburg. But has Rosa's family tree truly established an "official," "canon" family tree that now all stories have to adhere to? Which stories, where? Not in the Netherlands, we've seen that. They continue to support the idea that Scrooge and Grandma Duck are siblings. (Even though, according to Rob's recollection, that's probably not a very old tradition in the Netherlands.) And Italy certainly continues to acknowledge family members *not* on Rosa's tree; Gideon appeared in a new story last October. Whether Italian editors currently insist on family relationships of those who *do* appear on Rosa's tree being portrayed in accordance with the Rosa tree is not clear to me. There has apparently been a shift away from representing Scrooge and Grandma Duck as siblings in Italian stories, but we don't know if that's editorially enforced. Egmont is the most likely venue for editorial commitment to the Rosa family tree, though nobody here has presented evidence that that is their official policy. (And we know Egmont allows for the existence of Rumpus.)
It's possible that the Life & Times is so emotionally convincing as an overall narrative that it has influenced many writers to adjust their own view of the Ducks' relationships to come into sync with it, at least in a general way. That, for example, may explain why Scrooge and GD aren't portrayed as siblings in Italian stories recently. That's a bit different than Rosa's family tree functioning as official canon... though I can see why it could be a regrettable side effect of L&T for those who would like things to remain more flexible and up for grabs.
One way in which Rosa's view of the Duckworld has certainly *not* become canon is in terms of time period. Italians and Egmont writers may go along with Scrooge's Barks/Rosa backstory in the Klondike, but they do not write the Ducks' "present" as the 1950's or early 1960's.
On Barks' family tree sketch: even if he changed his ideas about the Ducks' relationships over time (e.g. who Scrooge's never-seen siblings were, where/how Gladstone fit in), I think it's likely that he did think that Grandma Duck was Donald's grandmother and not his mother or aunt. That's pretty basic. Maybe he hadn't thought about who Grandma was exactly back when he wrote "Best Christmas" in 1945, but by the time Barks was writing Duck stories in the 50's and later, I'm willing to bet that the family tree is evidence that Barks thought of GD as Donald's grandmother. Though now maybe Rob will say, "Barks told me in person that he thought GD was Donald's mother!"
For what it's worth (which is not much, I know), I grew up reading Duck stories in the USA in the early 60's, and I always assumed that (a) Grandma Duck was Donald's grandmother; for one thing, she was always portrayed as very old-fashioned, more so than I'd expect Donald's mother/aunt to be, and (b) she was not from the same side of Donald's family as Donald's Uncle Scrooge. Scrooge was Scottish, Grandma Duck was not. As far as I could tell, they didn't act like siblings--and certainly GD wasn't Scrooge's mother. So those aspects of Barks' and Rosa's trees seemed natural to me.
I agree. I think Barks, overall, didn't care much about how exactly the ducks were related, and never had a definite fixed family tree in mind; it allowed for new additions or alterations to the family whenever a story required it, just like how Scrooge and Gladstone emerged without needing an explanation. In that sense, Rosa's family tree sort of ruined things by establishing an "official", "canon" family tree that now all stories have to adhere to.
Yes, Barks cared very little about continuity, consistency, etc., whether for the nature of familial relationships or, say, the location of Duckburg. But has Rosa's family tree truly established an "official," "canon" family tree that now all stories have to adhere to? Which stories, where? Not in the Netherlands, we've seen that. They continue to support the idea that Scrooge and Grandma Duck are siblings. (Even though, according to Rob's recollection, that's probably not a very old tradition in the Netherlands.) And Italy certainly continues to acknowledge family members *not* on Rosa's tree; Gideon appeared in a new story last October. Whether Italian editors currently insist on family relationships of those who *do* appear on Rosa's tree being portrayed in accordance with the Rosa tree is not clear to me. There has apparently been a shift away from representing Scrooge and Grandma Duck as siblings in Italian stories, but we don't know if that's editorially enforced. Egmont is the most likely venue for editorial commitment to the Rosa family tree, though nobody here has presented evidence that that is their official policy. (And we know Egmont allows for the existence of Rumpus.)
It's possible that the Life & Times is so emotionally convincing as an overall narrative that it has influenced many writers to adjust their own view of the Ducks' relationships to come into sync with it, at least in a general way. That, for example, may explain why Scrooge and GD aren't portrayed as siblings in Italian stories recently. That's a bit different than Rosa's family tree functioning as official canon... though I can see why it could be a regrettable side effect of L&T for those who would like things to remain more flexible and up for grabs.
One way in which Rosa's view of the Duckworld has certainly *not* become canon is in terms of time period. Italians and Egmont writers may go along with Scrooge's Barks/Rosa backstory in the Klondike, but they do not write the Ducks' "present" as the 1950's or early 1960's.
On Barks' family tree sketch: even if he changed his ideas about the Ducks' relationships over time (e.g. who Scrooge's never-seen siblings were, where/how Gladstone fit in), I think it's likely that he did think that Grandma Duck was Donald's grandmother and not his mother or aunt. That's pretty basic. Maybe he hadn't thought about who Grandma was exactly back when he wrote "Best Christmas" in 1945, but by the time Barks was writing Duck stories in the 50's and later, I'm willing to bet that the family tree is evidence that Barks thought of GD as Donald's grandmother. Though now maybe Rob will say, "Barks told me in person that he thought GD was Donald's mother!"
For what it's worth (which is not much, I know), I grew up reading Duck stories in the USA in the early 60's, and I always assumed that (a) Grandma Duck was Donald's grandmother; for one thing, she was always portrayed as very old-fashioned, more so than I'd expect Donald's mother/aunt to be, and (b) she was not from the same side of Donald's family as Donald's Uncle Scrooge. Scrooge was Scottish, Grandma Duck was not. As far as I could tell, they didn't act like siblings--and certainly GD wasn't Scrooge's mother. So those aspects of Barks' and Rosa's trees seemed natural to me.
Fear not! Carl Barks never told me that Grandma Duck was Donald's mother. Neither of us thought it necessary to spell out in detail her exact relationship to Donald and his nephews. We would leave it up to the reader to decide based on narrative, dialogue and the pictures in the panels. It seemed clear thatWestern's policy was to leave that to the reader, and not define it in detail (same as what happened to Donald's parents, and Huey, Dewey, and Louie's parents, etc.
On Barks' family tree sketch: even if he changed his ideas about the Ducks' relationships over time (e.g. who Scrooge's never-seen siblings were, where/how Gladstone fit in), I think it's likely that he did think that Grandma Duck was Donald's grandmother and not his mother or aunt. That's pretty basic. Maybe he hadn't thought about who Grandma was exactly back when he wrote "Best Christmas" in 1945, but by the time Barks was writing Duck stories in the 50's and later, I'm willing to bet that the family tree is evidence that Barks thought of GD as Donald's grandmother. Though now maybe Rob will say, "Barks told me in person that he thought GD was Donald's mother!"
I think that he sometimes regarded him as his mother and sometimes as his grandmother.
I agree. I think Barks, overall, didn't care much about how exactly the ducks were related, and never had a definite fixed family tree in mind; it allowed for new additions or alterations to the family whenever a story required it, just like how Scrooge and Gladstone emerged without needing an explanation. In that sense, Rosa's family tree sort of ruined things by establishing an "official", "canon" family tree that now all stories have to adhere to.
Yes, Barks cared very little about continuity, consistency, etc., whether for the nature of familial relationships or, say, the location of Duckburg. But has Rosa's family tree truly established an "official," "canon" family tree that now all stories have to adhere to? Which stories, where? Not in the Netherlands, we've seen that. They continue to support the idea that Scrooge and Grandma Duck are siblings. (Even though, according to Rob's recollection, that's probably not a very old tradition in the Netherlands.) And Italy certainly continues to acknowledge family members *not* on Rosa's tree; Gideon appeared in a new story last October.
Oh no, the European editors are actually ridiculously eager to keep anything within the Rosa canon. The exceptional fact that, after years, finally an original story was created in Holland where GD and Scrooge *are* presented as siblings (perhaps the very first one since Rosa's stories were published here) was the reason I posted it here--the tradition is still alive in some translations of old stories, and (of course) among readers, but the Dutch editors have gone to great lengths to avoid Scrooge and Grandma's siblinghood in any new stories since Rosa's stories were published here. In fact, on the official Dutch Donald Duck website, one of their first "Duck Family Frequently asked questions ( www.donaldduck.nl/duckipedia/s/stamboom/ ) is "Are Scrooge and Grandma Duck siblings?", with their answer being expicitly "no", and they specifically refer to Rosa's tree.
Italy keeps to Rosa's canon as well (that Gideon story you mention also mentions Matilda and Hortense, so as to make sure that it fits with Rosa's idea of Scrooge's relatives). And I'm very certain that any new story involving GD/Scrooge as siblings, or any new additions to the Ducks' close family would be rejected by any publisher on grounds of that it would be in conflict with Rosa's well-known work. For example, I can't imagine any other reason why William Van Horn had to come up with this convoluted "half-brother" story when he wanted Rumpus to be Scrooge's brother. Just like the Italian story, he made sure to connect him to a Rosa relative (Fergus) to make him fit into Rosa's canon. I highly doubt that writers would do this because they found Rosa's stories so "emotionally convincing"; if it's not their editor's explicit demand to have any new relative or historical story fit with Rosa's stories, it's the creators' own knowledge that, if they don't do so, the story will likely be rejected. Just look at Rob Klein's story about Gladstone's brother, which was only accepted if Gladstone's brother was changed to a cousin. I seriously doubt that any editor would have given a hoot about whether Gladstone was allowed to have a brother before Rosa decided to fill in all the gaps in an official, published family tree.
Last Edit: May 24, 2018 23:04:38 GMT by Scroogerello
For what it's worth (which is not much, I know), I grew up reading Duck stories in the USA in the early 60's, and I always assumed that (a) Grandma Duck was Donald's grandmother; for one thing, she was always portrayed as very old-fashioned, more so than I'd expect Donald's mother/aunt to be, and (b) she was not from the same side of Donald's family as Donald's Uncle Scrooge. Scrooge was Scottish, Grandma Duck was not. As far as I could tell, they didn't act like siblings--and certainly GD wasn't Scrooge's mother. So those aspects of Barks' and Rosa's trees seemed natural to me.
They behaved like brothers and sisters in the Barks stories. And in which Barks story the nationality of Grandma is actually described. As far as I know nowhere?
For what it's worth (which is not much, I know), I grew up reading Duck stories in the USA in the early 60's, and I always assumed that (a) Grandma Duck was Donald's grandmother; for one thing, she was always portrayed as very old-fashioned, more so than I'd expect Donald's mother/aunt to be, and (b) she was not from the same side of Donald's family as Donald's Uncle Scrooge. Scrooge was Scottish, Grandma Duck was not. As far as I could tell, they didn't act like siblings--and certainly GD wasn't Scrooge's mother. So those aspects of Barks' and Rosa's trees seemed natural to me.
They behaved like brothers and sisters in the Barks stories. And in which Barks story the nationality of Grandma is actually described. As far as I know nowhere?
You are correct that the "nationality" (citizenship or ethnic heritage) of Grandma was never stated by Barks. But, we can assume that her parents were Americans who spoke English, and they, themselves, probably had been born in USA. It is most likely to assume that their ancestors had come from England, as The United States had started from English colonies. So Donald and his nephews had Scottish and English roots. But, perhaps Grandma's parents had come from New York, or Northern New Jersey, and then, could have had Dutch ancestors.