Giorgio Cavazzano... and the artists influenced by his style

[Orora]

Giorgio Cavazzano is obviously one of the most popular modern Disney comic artists. Most of us recognize his style, made of round, dynamic, rubbery shapes.
 
And we also know there are many other artists whose style is obviously derivative of his.


What do you think of this?


I remember reading in several topics in this forum about the Cavazzano-influenced artists, and how it seems most of you aren't really fans of that.

And maybe, I think it is one of the reasons some have an issue with Italian-made comics.

And it seems some of you preferred Cavazzano's fans in the 70s, when it was lankier and less "bouncy".


I must admit I am myself taking inspiration from this style... though many comics that I thought were from Cavazzano were actually from Massimo De Vita's (and De Vita seems to be more into mice stories while Cavazzano is more into duck ones, right?).

[Gladstone_the_Gander]

The problem with Cavazzano's style is that, among the italian artists, all new ones and several seasoned ones as well, just adopt it. They all seem like Cavazzano copycats. It's not their fault, more like because it's the maim style taught in Italy (I think?). I love Cavazzano's style, don't get me wrong. However, having so many artists share that style...it makes italian comics boring. They all look like they are drawn by the same person. Paolo Mottura used to be so close to a Cavazzano copycat back in the 90s. After he changed his style to a more surealistic and artistic one, he stood out so much, along with Fabio Celoni, even Silvia Ziche (I don't like her caricaturistic style much, but it matches her stories, and it's something different!).

[deb]

I hate to say it, but if a lot of Disney comic artists adopt the look of a more popular artist, oftentimes it is the editorial staff or Disney itself that wants it that way. Disney in general likes to keep things somewhat on-model, even with a style that LOOKS like it isn’t following a style sheet. I’m certain that even Paul Rudish’s Mickey Mouse licensing has a model sheet for artists to follow. For years, artists have gone out of their way to copy Tony Strobl, Paul Murry and Carl Barks’ style not just because they like the classic look, but because that’s what the publisher and Disney want. Even Don Rosa had an editor in the Netherlands who actually had another artist pencil the first page of one of Don’s stories to try to get him in line with what they wanted.

[Monkey_Feyerabend]

Aug 29, 2018 18:55:44 GMT deb said:

I hate to say it, but if a lot of Disney comic artists adopt the look of a more popular artist, oftentimes it is the editorial staff or Disney itself that wants it that way. Disney in general likes to keep things somewhat on-model, even with a style that LOOKS like it isn’t following a style sheet. I’m certain that even Paul Rudish’s Mickey Mouse licensing has a model sheet for artists to follow. For years, artists have gone out of their way to copy Tony Strobl, Paul Murry and Carl Barks’ style not just because they like the classic look, but because that’s what the publisher and Disney want. Even Don Rosa had an editor in the Netherlands who actually had another artist pencil the first page of one of Don’s stories to try to get him in line with what they wanted.

This is true, but not in the case of Cavazzano. The influence of his style (from the 90s) on younger artists has always been a genuine phenomenon, not driven by the Italian editor. Cavazzano did not like it at the beginning, as he has admitted in some interviews.

I add that the phenomenon was never that much big as someone depicts it. Few minor artists really drew like him in the past. The Italian have the most diversified range of styles. It is ridiculous to call out the Italian artists for a supposed resemblance to Cavazzano, when all Egmont artists actually look like Daniel Branca, who himself was not the most original comics artist.
 
 

[Monkey_Feyerabend]

Aug 29, 2018 14:34:55 GMT Gladstone_the_Gander said:

The problem with Cavazzano's style is that, among the italian artists, all new ones and several seasoned ones as well, just adopt it.  

This is not true. This view is shared only  by people who have mostly experience of non-Italian Disney comics. If one comes from outside the Italian tradition, by looking at the general graphic tendencies of Italian Disney comics he may think "they are all like Cavazzano!". But this is a wrong perspective. Cavazzano is a highly influential artist (possibly the most influential one) within a complex world - the Italian disney comics - who has been developing on his own way from 1949. It does not mean that Italian artists are trying to adopt Cavazzano's style, not more then they are trying to adopt the style of Carpi, De Vita, Bottaro or Scarpa. It is actually the opposite: none dares to copy Cavazzano nowadays. If you see  signs of his styles in the Italian stories, well, that it's legacy, not people copying him. In fact, to my eyes (of someone who read Italian stories since his infancy), no artist today has any resemblance with him.  

[Gladstone_the_Gander]

Aug 29, 2018 19:51:14 GMT Monkey_Feyerabend said:

Aug 29, 2018 14:34:55 GMT Gladstone_the_Gander said:

The problem with Cavazzano's style is that, among the italian artists, all new ones and several seasoned ones as well, just adopt it.  

This is not true. This view is shared only  by people who have mostly experience of non-Italian Disney comics. If one comes from outside the Italian tradition, by looking at the general graphic tendencies of Italian Disney comics he may think "they are all like Cavazzano!". But this is a wrong perspective. Cavazzano is a highly influential artist (possibly the most influential one) within a complex work - the Italian disney comics - who has been developing on his own way from 1949. It does not mean that Italian artists are now trying to copy Cavazzano, not more then they are trying to copy Carpi, De Vita, Bottaro and Scarpa. It is actually the opposite: none dares to copy him. If you see in the Italian comics signs of his styles, well, that it's legacy, not people copying him. In fact, to my eyes (of someone who read Italian stories since his infancy), no artist today has any resemblance with him.  

I'm talking of the general drawing style. I wouldn't say "copying Cavazzano" either at all, maybe I expressed it wrong. It's just that there is a specific set of rules followed by the Italian school, on how to draw a style, so different to other countries. It's a recipe. Ok, maybe not copying, but most italian artists share so many things in their styles that makes them stand out from among the other artists, I would consider it undeniable. And the first stories I read, for many years, were italian as well.

[Monkey_Feyerabend]

Aug 29, 2018 20:11:51 GMT Gladstone_the_Gander said:

Aug 29, 2018 19:51:14 GMT Monkey_Feyerabend said:

 

I'm talking of the general drawing style. I wouldn't say "copying Cavazzano" either at all, maybe I expressed it wrong. It's just that there is a specific set of rules followed by the Italian school, on how to draw a style, so different to other countries. It's a recipe. Ok, maybe not copying, but most italian artists share so many things in their styles that makes them stand out from among the other artists, I would consider it undeniable. And the first stories I read, for many years, were italian as well.

I see what you mean, but I am astonished that you (and many others) projects on the Italians something that is more evident in non-Italian Disney comics.
It is all the other countries that follow the same style, because  be it Norwegian or Spanish or Brazilian (or even Italian!) an Egmont artist must follow the Barks/Branca style of the house. Since the 90s there has been, and there is more and more today, much more artist diversity within the Italian school than in the rest of the world all together. Since the Italians do not uniform to the Egmont style they are seen as "all following the same basic rules" (something negative), when you should rather notice that "they are not using the rules that the others are chained to" (something positive). 

[Orora]

Aug 30, 2018 9:50:32 GMT Monkey_Feyerabend said:

Aug 29, 2018 20:11:51 GMT Gladstone_the_Gander said:

I'm talking of the general drawing style. I wouldn't say "copying Cavazzano" either at all, maybe I expressed it wrong. It's just that there is a specific set of rules followed by the Italian school, on how to draw a style, so different to other countries. It's a recipe. Ok, maybe not copying, but most italian artists share so many things in their styles that makes them stand out from among the other artists, I would consider it undeniable. And the first stories I read, for many years, were italian as well.

I see what you mean, but I am astonished that you (and many others) project on the Italians something that is more evident in non-Italian Disney comics.
It is all the other countries that follow the same style, because  be it Norwegian or Spanish or Brazilian (or even Italian!) an Egmont artist must follow the Barks/Branca style of the house. Since the 90s there has been, and there is more and more today, much more artist diversity within the Italian school than in the rest of the world all together. Since the Italians do not uniform to the Egmont style they are seen as "all following the same basic rules" (something negative), when you should rather notice that "they are using the rules that the others are chained to" (something positive). 

Really? Egmont artists must follow the Barks/Branca style? It’s a rule?
Was Vicar under this rule, for example?

[Monkey_Feyerabend]

To be more clear: I am not saying that there is anything wrong with the artistic homogeneity of Egmont 4-strips stories, nor that I prefer the Italian(s) style. I do not, actually. But I only find irritating that some people accuse the Italian comics to be homogenized when they are exactly the only ones which are not. If ever there is one undeniable merit of the Italian editor, it is the one of letting artists have at least a certain degree of liberty in pushing the bounds of Disney comics art away from tradition. And Cavazzano - so to go back in topic - is the one artist who allowed this to happen, as he pioneered the breaking approach since the middle of the 70's (against the editor will, as he has always described.)

[Monkey_Feyerabend]

Orora , of course not. Vicar had a distinctive style (even if developed starting from a strict Barksian style), as well as Rota keeps developing his own completely independently. But Vicar and Rota are contemporaries of Branca.
Can you name a more recent Egmont artist baring a distinctive style with no sign of Branca or at least of Barks's art from the 50's?
The most original one that I can think of is Arild Midthun, a (good) apple not exactly fallen far away from the tree.
Yes, there is Flemming Andersen. But Andersen only does 3-strips stories, so in a way Egmont editors themselves seem to count him "as a sort of Italian".

I may be wrong, but even the Dutch stories, as far as I can see, look more and more like Egmont's and less and less like "the Heymans's". Am I wrong? 

To go back to the topic again: I find more artistic variety within the stories of one man, Girogio Cavazzano, than in all the current young Egmont artists together. I mean, is this a delusion of mine?  

[Gladstone_the_Gander]

I don't know about that. The thing is, when I look at an italian story, it takes no more than 2 seconds to realise that it is italian and not dutch, spanish, american or whatever.
I don't know. Maybe that happens because of what you said, which is the italian school being the only one different to the others.
The italian style is so easily recognisable. No matter who the italian artist, no matter whether they draw characters basic or surrealistic or whatever, I see the same Scrooge, even in Cavazzano, Mottura, Celoni, Gervasio, Massimo de Vita etc.

Out of the italian school, the ones I can think of right now who draw the characters with more different principles, Ziche with her caricatures. Ok, and Pierre Lorenzo de Vita, and Sergio Asteriti maybe, and Romano Scarpa as well. Alberto Lavoradori also stands out, for...different reasons.

[Monkey_Feyerabend]

Aug 30, 2018 10:20:15 GMT Gladstone_the_Gander said:

I don't know about that. The thing is, when I look at an italian story, it takes no more than 2 seconds to realise that it is italian and not dutch, spanish, american or whatever.
 

Of course, Italian Disney comics have developed independently since 1949, on both the storytelling and the artistic side. It would be weird if you didn't notice in  2 seconds.

What I am trying to make you notice is this: when you look at a non-Italian story, you cannot realize in 2 seconds if it is dutch*, spanish, american or whatever. This should make you understand my point here. 
(*Maybe if it is Dutch yes, because of the Heymans's influence...)



Going back to your first post: yes, Ziche, Lavoradori, Intini, Mottura, Celoni, Limido, Gervasio started their career with a certain degree of similarity to Cavazzano, as almost every Italian (obviously: they were kids learning to draw by copying Cavazzano's stories, not Barks's or Rota's or even Scarpa's!) But the fact that each of them developed a very peculiar style which is far removed from Cavazzano is a proof of a certain freedom allowed within the Italian school.

[Gladstone_the_Gander]

Aug 30, 2018 10:26:20 GMT Monkey_Feyerabend said:

when you look at a non-Italian story, you cannot realize in 2 seconds if it is dutch*, spanish, american or whatever.

(*Maybe if it is Dutch yes, because of the Heymans's influence...)

Ok. I see your point and I agree with this one. 

[Monkey_Feyerabend]

On the other side - sorry for keeping this off-topic - I do not want to be the one who accuses Egmont editors to impose a certain style. I have no proof of that. I have no idea of what they do, say or think. I wonder if Ramapith and RobbK1 , as direct collaborators of Egmont at some point of their careers, are willing (or are allowed) to shed some light on it.

 

[jumbojr]

Saying that italian comics look like they are drawn by the same person is probably the most ignorant take of all time.