The Secret Origins of Money Bin? -- Some Headcanon

[That Duckfan]

(I apologize for the clickbait title.)

I was doing some research on A Christmas For Shacktown just now, and I noticed something...

I always thought that the first mention of the Money Bin was in the 10-pager "The Big Bin on Killmotor Hill" from WDC 135 (Dec. 1951). There it's still Scrooge's "new money bin", which doesn't quite flow with other mentions that the bin had been there for 70 years, and then there are other money bins entirely. Over the years there has been a shift to a permanent bin-on-hill, as was also adopted by Don Rosa (as he retroactively puts it in Lo$10 and then in the history of his other stories). Anyway. First story where the bin is named, I presumed, so early inconsistency, right? Maybe.

Maybe not.

So the money bin plays a pretty big role in A Christmas For Shacktown, as you know. INDUCKS dates the issue to January 1952 (although it was in stores earlier -- we'll run with this date because it gives us an indication of how much time passed between the publishing of WDC 135 and FC 367). But Shacktown is a 32-page story, which must have been in the works for a long time, because it's a big and complex story. Could it have been made before the 10-pager from WDC 135? Well, maybe.
INDUCKS provides evidence that supports that suggestion: the WDC 135 story was handed in at Western on May 31, 1951 -- roughly half a year before its publication. Hmm... seems unlikely that he'd hand in a story three times as long later, and that they still only get to be published one month apart. And he didn't. He handed A Christmas For Shacktown in on March 15, 1951 -- a good 2.5 months before the 10-pager. So that one is older.

Also interesting to note is another story handed in around the same time: "Terror of the Beagle Boys", that 10-pager from WDC 134 (Nov. 1951) in which the money bin is also destroyed (this time by a cannonball).

Now, of course, there are many stories in which the bin gets destroyed at the end with little hope at any return. (Only in Don Rosa's stories does the old bin always return to its rightful place in the end, even after many jaunts into the air (Gyro's First Invention), space (Attack of the Hideous Space Monsters), and pants (The Incredible Shrinking Tightwad) -- it's always there in the end.) And there seem to be many different bins. But the 'new, improved money bin' sense you get from WDC 135 might suggest something else. Continuity.

Now, with one exception, Barks never did continuity -- but here, it almost feels like he did. Twice in a row, the money bin gets damaged badly -- one of these times quite permanently, too. It would not be inconceivable for Scrooge, after the events of A Christmas For Shacktown, to take no more liberties anymore, and take all the precautions necessary. (The events of WDC 134, as an aside, seem to take place in a "McDuck Building" downtown, so we'll put that aside for now, but I do think they could have had an effect on Scrooge's thinking.) So he built a new money bin, on a hill (in contrast to the bin in the previous two stories, which were both visually not on a hill), where anything and everything had been tested out and foreseen beforehand. (Except of course for what happened in the story that followed.)

[RobbK1]

Before Walt Disney's Comics and Stories # 134, Barks had Scrooge's "Money Bin" as a real bin, rather than a blockish building (which is not really a "bin". A bin is box-type container that may or may not have a lid (or top). Barks had portrayed McDuck's "money bin" as a container bin inside The McDuck Building (like a vault) in 1949 (Christmas Parade) and 1950 ("The Pixilated Parrot"). But, the first total building bin appeared in WDC&S 134.

[That Duckfan]

Jun 10, 2016 20:09:03 GMT RobbK1 said:

Before Walt Disney's Comics and Stories # 134, Barks had Scrooge's "Money Bin" as a real bin, rather than a blockish building (which is not really a "bin". A bin is box-type container that may or may not have a lid (or top). Barks had portrayed McDuck's "money bin" as a container bin inside The McDuck Building (like a vault) in 1949 (Christmas Parade) and 1950 ("The Pixilated Parrot"). But, the first total building bin appeared in WDC&S 134.

Well, it's interesting that you mention that because you're halfway right, actually. The first full appearance of the bin as we know it: all container, high defenses, hill and all -- that's from WDC 135. Before that, the bin was mostly a vault inside other buildings, including the stories that you mention and the story from WDC 134 (where Donald worries at night and they set up the cannon). But the bin in A Christmas For Shacktown looks quite a bit like it. (You can see it in the diagram on page 25.) All it needs is the diving board and the hill.

So, my idea was that the events of A Christmas For Shacktown (and WDC 134 if you like) inspired Scrooge to make a newer, bigger, better bin -- which is why he's got a new one in WDC 135, with diving board and hill.

It's interesting, because it's making me think about what I consider to be "essential" parts of the money bin in my head, and what parts I consider "optional". My headbin is very much like Don Rosa's, especially when I was younger (the bin wasn't complete unless I had drawn the roof hatch, path leading up the hill, and "get out!" signs).

What are your "essential" parts of the bin?

EDIT: domes.

I like this domed money bin. This is great.


I don't like this domed money bin. This is not great.

[Scrooge MacDuck]

The difference between the Italian bin and the DuckTales bin is mostly a matter of colors (that, and the DuckTales bin is slightly more elongated). I agree with you, and I similarly dislike the recent American issues where they colored the Italian, classically-blue-yellow-and-red money bin GREY.

P.S.: If the hatch on the roof is so important to you, how do you make that fit with your liking of the dome?

[That Duckfan]

Jun 13, 2016 19:30:04 GMT Scrooge MacDuck said:

P.S.: If the hatch on the roof is so important to you, how do you make that fit with your liking of the dome?

Well, that was more when I doodled Disney ducks as a kid. That's when I was sure to include all those elements (hatch, angry signs, etc), but I don't draw that much anymore. I guess that if you asked me to imagine the money bin today, I might or might not forget it in my mental picture.

How do you reconcile the two money bins? I don't know, but both have to me their own place where they belong. If I had to choose, I prefer the colorful Italian money bin (even if the dome and bright colors would be an unScroogean addition -- I imagine that Scrooge would have chosen a much more utilitarian design). The grey money bin is visually a very boring thing to look at, plus it waddles a thin line between realism and cartooniness. Many artists draw the bin with such enormous windows that it suggests that the bin is no more than 30 feet tall. In my mind the bin is enormous, monumental. Others just make it look incredibly boring, and about as nondescript as you can make THE MONEY BIN, FOR CRYING OUT LOUD. The Italian alternative is completely on the cartoony side, and all the more lively for it.

Many artists spend a lot of their time in and around the money bin, which is great. The bin is an immensely interesting and meaningful piece of architecture, from the offices -- the heart of the McDuck financial empire -- to the trophy room -- the great memory trove -- to Scrooge's living quarters -- how does a guy like Scrooge live, anyway? -- to the three cubic acres of money. It's the spatial representation of Uncle Scrooge, every last nook and cranny, and probably the single most important building in Duckburg. Not just in the stories itself (obviously it's the motor of the Duckburg economy), but as far as the stories go.
Donald's house, Grandma's farm, those are all very normal spaces. Donald's house (or Daisy's, etc.) could be anyone's house. Grandma's farm is somewhat of an ideal, but it's still just a normal farm. But Scrooge's money bin is all that makes him different, it's all that makes him Scrooge. Really, the only space I can think of that comes close is Gyro's workshop, which is also a place that nobody else could live in. Or Magica's hut on the Vesuvius, but then you're already out of Duckburg and into the wider world.

[Scrooge MacDuck]

Good analysis.

[That Duckfan]

Jun 14, 2016 16:36:06 GMT Scrooge MacDuck said:

Good analysis.

Thanks! Sometimes I don't know whether I'm on the nose or completely in the dark when it comes to Disney comics.

[LP]

Hey, I have a semi-relevant question. Where did the domed design of the Money Bin come from? I mean, where did that start? 

Oh, and just for the record - I like the color scheme of the DuckTales-Bin, but I'm not a fan of the elongated shape.

[The KKM]

For all I complain of it otherwise, the Ducktales 17 design of the bin is still my favourite. It being an actual island instead of a figurative one, and the James Bond Villain flair of it.

[drakeborough]

May 21, 2019 10:56:37 GMT LP said:

Hey, I have a semi-relevant question. Where did the domed design of the Money Bin come from? I mean, where did that start?

The dome was first seen in Paperino e il ferragosto a ogni costo, written by Gian Giacomo Dalmasso and drawn by Giovan Battista Carpi (Topolino #403, 18 August 1963). After that, for some years Italian artists alternated between stories in which the Money Bin has a dome and stories in which the Money Bin has no dome, but the dome eventually became an established element of the Bin's design in Italian stories.

[LP]

Nov 17, 2019 20:15:31 GMT drakeborough said:

The dome was first seen in Paperino e il ferragosto a ogni costo, written by Gian Giacomo Dalmasso and drawn by Giovan Battista Carpi (Topolino #403, 18 August 1963). After that, for some years Italian artists alternated between stories in which the Money Bin has a dome and stories in which the Money Bin has no dome, but the dome eventually became an established element of the Bin's design in Italian stories.

Thank you, drakeborough! I haven't read that one. Is the dome relevant to the plot? Do we know why the artist decided to include the dome? It's a pretty drastic change to a well-established design, so I find it odd if it just happened on a whim.

[drakeborough]

Nov 17, 2019 20:54:38 GMT LP said:

Thank you, drakeborough! I haven't read that one. Is the dome relevant to the plot? Do we know why the artist decided to include the dome? It's a pretty drastic change to a well-established design, so I find it odd if it just happened on a whim.

I don't think the dome is relevant to the plot, but I haven't read the story in a long time. I guess it was artist Giovan Battista Carpi who decided to add the dome, since he drew not only the first story in which we see dome, but also the second and the fourth (and that's just to mention the first four stories). Why he did that? I don't know. Maybe the design was not well-established yet in 1963? I haven't yet done a full research on the evolution of the design of the Bin in Italian stories, maybe some day I will. Barks gave us his definitve version of the Bin in 1956, and even after that he alternated between the Bin and other random buildings. Plus, American stories appeared in Italy at least months after their original release and in some cases even later, so it's not surprising that, for example, in Romano Scarpa's "The Flying Scot" from late 1957 we see Scrooge in a common building at street level.

At any rate, not every Italian artist accepted the dome, for example Guido Scala drew a barksian Bin in most of his stories, including the ones done at the end of his career (he died in 2001): take the first page of this 1997 story as an example. Personally, I like the barksian bin more than the Italian one. I am not sure how much freedom an artist starting today would be given if he/she decided to do the same thing that Scala did and draw a Bin that doesn't match the Italian tradition.

As for DuckTales, I don't know why they decided to follow the Italian design, given that the series premiered in 1987 while no Italian story was printed in the USA before 1988, and no Italian story with the domed Money Bin was printed in the USA until (I think) years later. The choice may have something to do with the fact that Scarpa did a test animation for the series (even though he didn't get the role), and this would explain some apparent Italian influences in the series. However, it's also possible that it was a decision made by some European artist who worked on the series, given that Italian comics have long been published in other European countries, though these countries usually followed the barksian design.

Trivia: the first animated appearance of the animated Bin is in this short film, animated by Scarpa in 1982 as the opening theme of an Italian TV show which aired Disney material. Of course, we know that DuckTales creators were not influenced by this, since it was never seen outside Italy.

[Scrooge MacDuck]

Nov 17, 2019 21:50:46 GMT drakeborough said:

Of course, we know that DuckTales creators were not influenced by this, since it was never seen outside Italy.

Yet he did create that DuckTales animation test. Isn't it plausible that at some point around the same time he sent them that sequence as another sample of what his team could do with the business of making Disney Comics into animation?

[drakeborough]

Nov 17, 2019 22:08:32 GMT Scrooge MacDuck said:

Nov 17, 2019 21:50:46 GMT drakeborough said:

Of course, we know that DuckTales creators were not influenced by this, since it was never seen outside Italy.

Yet he did create that DuckTales animation test. Isn't it plausible that at some point around the same time he sent them that sequence as another sample of what his team could do with the business of making Disney Comics into animation?

I don't know. If he still had that sequence, he could have sent it to American Disney producers, but at any rate the Bin only appears in the background for a few seconds and many people who are not familiar with Italian-Bin will probably not even notice the dome unless they are looking for it. It seems unlikely that this short inspired the domed Bin in the DuckTales series. It's possible that Scarpa himself may have suggested the design of the Bin, but since he only sent them a sample and ws not part of the series' creative team I don't know how much he could influence the actual creative team. And yet, the series does have some Italian influence, including the Bin with curved walls and the Dome. Are there any interviews to the creators of the series that discuss these things?

[pollux]

I have the map of Duckburg that is based upon Barks only and was created by (((German))) Donaldists after 13 years of research as a poster print on my wall, and according to it, Scrooge had like 20 different bins of which 7 are still standing. This is an explaination for Barks habit of drawing the bin and its surroundings differently in many stories.

Well, I don't like to treat it like that, even though Barks did indeed show a lot varian of the Bin, it could never have been his intention for all this designs to be different buildings which are coexisting. I'd rather like to believe the Bin was destroyed by criminals and enemies, like the Beagle Boys, Glomgold and Magica, a few times and when it was rebuild new plans were used or sometimes it was relocated.

And even if Scrooge had several different bins due to constant destruction by his enemies, he could only have had one at a time, or at least the others would have to be empty, or many of Barks' plots would make no sense.