Donald is called Paperino in Italian. Daisy is called Paperina in Italian. Mickey is called Topolino in Italian. Minnie is called Minni in Italian.
Is there a reason why? How did this happen? You'd think, following the pattern, she'd be called Topolina or something? Why take the original American name and just remove the "e"?
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Post by Monkey_Feyerabend on Nov 8, 2018 11:00:44 GMT
The "e" was removed because the sound of "Minnie" in Italian is obtained just by writing "Minni". If they had gone with "Minnie", the Italians of the 30's - most of them barely spook and understood correct Italian, left alone English - would have read her name as you read "Mine-ni-è" in French. The final e is not mute (there is no mute letter in Italian other then "h"). If Mickey Mouse or Minnie Mouse would be created today, they would not be renamed nor respelled in Italy, of course.
The reason why she was not called Topolina is a mystery. My guess is that it sounded very inappropriate. In spoken (and gross) Italian, "bella topa" ("beautiful female mouse") can be used to mean "beautiful woman" in a sexist gross way. As a matter of fact, "topa" is one of the thousands ways Italians have to vulgarly denote the vagina, and by sexist extension a whole woman or girl that you are interested in only for sexual reasons. "Topolina", i.e. "little female mouse", is less used in this sense, but still it can.
(Following the same logic, the vulgar way of calling a rat, a greater and dirtier mouse, namely "zoccola", is used to denote prostitutes. You can imagine in the last 90 years how many times someone in Italy has made a bad joke on the equation Minnie = prostitute...)
Post by Monkey_Feyerabend on Nov 8, 2018 11:19:02 GMT
(Following the same logic, the vulgar way of calling a rat, a greater and dirtier mouse, namely "zoccola", is used to denote prostitutes. You can imagine in the last 90 years how many times someone in Italy has made a bad joke on the equation Minnie = prostitute...)
I just googled "minni zoccola". Apparently there is also a book. The title is roughly: Careful Mickey, Minnie is a b***h! Subtitle: the basics to survive in a relationship.
Italian word come Topolina, Gattina, Topina they can be used to indicate a small and cute ball of fur. People used these words to indicate parts of the female body. If they had used Topolina instead of Minni, movies or comic books would be confiscated and burned.
Calling a woman a "sweet mouse" in German is most likely considered sexist these days, but it's far more harmless - probably more on the plane of the English "nice chick". Not exactly friendly, but not exactly reducing a lady to her parts either.
Mouseton is called Topolinia, by the way - I wonder if any Italian artists have made use of this similarity? Imagine a big sign on the road and somebody crossing the "i" through... har har.
Calling a woman a "sweet mouse" in German is most likely considered sexist these days, but it's far more harmless - probably more on the plane of the English "nice chick". Not exactly friendly, but not exactly reducing a lady to her parts either.
Mouseton is called Topolinia, by the way - I wonder if any Italian artists have made use of this similarity? Imagine a big sign on the road and somebody crossing the "i" through... har har.
No, we italians are master to read sex joke where were not, so the author want to limit this problem, even so there are group on internet with like read volgar joke in disney comics for example Venerdì Paperdroga o Giovedì Piselloni
Calling a woman a "sweet mouse" in German is most likely considered sexist these days, but it's far more harmless - probably more on the plane of the English "nice chick". Not exactly friendly, but not exactly reducing a lady to her parts either.
It's similar. "Nice chick" is sexist. And in any case, can you imagine a Disney comics character named "nice chick"?
Calling a woman a "sweet mouse" in German is most likely considered sexist these days, but it's far more harmless - probably more on the plane of the English "nice chick". Not exactly friendly, but not exactly reducing a lady to her parts either.
It's similar. "Nice chick" is sexist. And in any case, can you imagine a Disney comics character named "nice chick"?
I'd say "nice chick" is sexist, but as Spectrograph says, not nearly as sexist and demeaning as referring to a woman by a vulgar term for female genitalia.
Post by Monkey_Feyerabend on Dec 13, 2018 17:21:25 GMT
But the semantics of that expression is contextual. Only etymologically calling a woman "bella topa" comes from the fact that "topa" is also used for female genitalia. But in practice, when used to refer to a woman it will not remind any genitalia. It will be just perceived as "cat calling", not much more inappropriate than "nice chick", I think.
But the semantics of that expression is contextual. Only etymologically calling a woman "bella topa" comes from the fact that "topa" is also used for female genitalia. But in practice, when used to refer to a woman it will not remind any genitalia. It will be just perceived as "cat calling", not much more inappropriate than "nice chick", I think.
Ah, OK, that would make it more comparable to "nice chick." I was thinking, say, of the English words "beaver" or "pussy"--similarly based on furry animals. Those words in a catcall would definitely make everyone think of genitalia.
Calling a woman a "sweet mouse" in German is most likely considered sexist these days, but it's far more harmless - probably more on the plane of the English "nice chick". Not exactly friendly, but not exactly reducing a lady to her parts either.
But in German, it is totally acceptable to call a girl or a young woman an "it".
Calling a woman a "sweet mouse" in German is most likely considered sexist these days, but it's far more harmless - probably more on the plane of the English "nice chick". Not exactly friendly, but not exactly reducing a lady to her parts either.
But in German, it is totally acceptable to call a girl or a young woman an "it".
Not sure I get the joke if there is one... It's true though that in some dialects, there's a tendency (especially from men) to use a neutral article in front of a female name, which I always found baffling and strange but must sound completely normal if you grew up in such an area!
Donald is called Paperino in Italian. Daisy is called Paperina in Italian. Mickey is called Topolino in Italian. Minnie is called Minni in Italian.
Is there a reason why? How did this happen? You'd think, following the pattern, she'd be called Topolina or something? Why take the original American name and just remove the "e"?
Actually, back in the 30s Mickey and Minnie alternated between the Italian names Topolino and Topolina and their original English names, as you can see by looking at the titles of their earliest appearances in Italy:
Minnie and Topolina were sometimes used simultaneously, like in this case:
At some point, Topolino prevailed over Mickey, and Minnie prevailed over Topolina. Minnie then lost the "e" at the end and became Minni, for a reason already explained by Monkey_Feyerabend.
From another thread of this forum, I also learned that Topolino was called "Micchi Topolino" for a while, which is sort of a literal translation of Mickey Mouse:
The name Micchi must have been lost to history many decades ago, as I hadn't heard of it until a few days ago, and thus only new Topolino as a mononym. Paperino is also mostly used as a mononym, though his once common first name Paolino has never completely disappeared and is still used from time to time when he gives his full name.
Last Edit: Oct 24, 2019 21:45:18 GMT by drakeborough