I don't know how to quote multiple people in one post, so I'll just do this instead.
Baar Baar Jinx: As someone mentioned before, Whitewater Duck was used by Lars Jensen in a few stories, where he is identified as Douglas McDuck's nephew. So, Scrooge's paternal first cousin's maternal nephew... that's a bit complicated, but at least he is a distant relative to Donald! That makes them second cousins, if my brain works properly at the moment! I imagine that Angus McDuck wasn't too much of settle down-type, so I'd go with Douglas being Jake McDuck's son. I'm not too familiar with any other McDuck relatives to fill in the rest of the blanks with.
Matilda: Yes, you understood me perfectly - I place Upsy as the son of a brother of Humperdink! I agree with everything else said in your post. For Upsy's father and Humperdink's brother, I think it would be easier to pick a name if we had a number of candidates that could fill the position. I mean, it's easier to pick a name if you have a face to associate it with. I suggested the two "Elders of the Duck Clan", what do people think about that?
rasterax: What makes you say Fethry "clearly is" Donald's first cousin nowadays? Have they said that? I don't read too much modern Duck comics, so I don't know. But just because the two of them have a closer relationship, doesn't mean that they are closer biologically.
Upsy is always talked about in the past tense, so it can be assumed that he is dead, which might be why the wiki (I don't know which one) went with the "Donald's great uncle" option.
Yeah… that, and that makes his absence at family reunions more believable.
Anyway, we're rocking heaven and hell based on that line, but have you considered that Donald may be lying? He's embarrassed about Fethry and being related to him, so he claims they're only "distantly related". I'm pretty sure I've seen that gag elsewhere.
I imagine that Angus McDuck wasn't too much of settle down-type, so I'd go with Douglas being Jake McDuck's son. I'm not too familiar with any other McDuck relatives to fill in the rest of the blanks with.
Personally, I go with Midas McDuck, an uncle introduced in Brazilian stories who claims to be even stingier than Scrooge. This nicely brings Douglas's lines about Scrooge's branch of the family being less parsimonious into play.
I mean, it's easier to pick a name if you have a face to associate it with. I suggested the two "Elders of the Duck Clan", what do people think about that?
Have you seen my Duck family tree? I included the Elders somewhere else entirely, and it records one Bluffer Duck, sheriff, as Donald's great-grandfather, per W OS 995-02.
If we are assuming an alternative family tree for Fethry, I think we should consider people like Paperdick (Dick Duck in the Netherlands) and Dudly D. Duck who are visually very similar to him.
Yeah… that, and that makes his absence at family reunions more believable.
Anyway, we're rocking heaven and hell based on that line, but have you considered that Donald may be lying? He's embarrassed about Fethry and being related to him, so he claims they're only "distantly related". I'm pretty sure I've seen that gag elsewhere.
Have you seen my Duck family tree? I included the Elders somewhere else entirely, and it records one Bluffer Duck, sheriff, as Donald's great-grandfather, per W OS 995-02.
Lying would make no sense. The first time Donald calls Upsy his great uncle, he is talking to Huey, Dewey, and Louie. This is right after he told them that Upsy was his uncle. So it looks like an oversight of the writer. He might also call him "great uncle Upsy" because he is talking to his nephews, and is framing Upsy from their perspective, like a father calling his wife "mom" when talking to his children, for example. The second time Upsy is referred to as Donald's great uncle, it is done by the narrator. So Donald isn't lying here either. I don't like the "what if he is lying" solution to things like this, when there is nothing in the text hinting at it. It's like writing the story for the author.
I'd like to point out that it was Fethry who said that the two are distantly related, not Donald. Donald only confirmed it. And Fethry is certainly not embarrassed about being related to Donald.
I have seen your family tree! I think it's fascinating and interesting, and I like it! There are lots of aspects I don't agree with, however. I'm not a fan of the idea that one of the elders is the son of the other. I think of them as brothers. Maybe Humperdink used to be a third brother before his passing. I personally prefer to think of Gran'daddy Daniel as Donald's great-grandfather.
Lying would make no sense. The first time Donald calls Upsy his great uncle, he is talking to Huey, Dewey, and Louie. This is right after he told them that Upsy was his uncle. So it looks like an oversight of the writer. He might also call him "great uncle Upsy" because he is talking to his nephews, and is framing Upsy from their perspective, like a father calling his wife "mom" when talking to his children, for example. The second time Upsy is referred to as Donald's great uncle, it is done by the narrator. So Donald isn't lying here either. I don't like the "what if he is lying" solution to things like this, when there is nothing in the text hinting at it. It's like writing the story for the author.
No, no. I'm not talking about Upsy. I'm talking about the line that sparked this entire discussion, in the Kinney story, where Donald says Fethry is "distantly related" to him.
No, no. I'm not talking about Upsy. I'm talking about the line that sparked this entire discussion, in the Kinney story, where Donald says Fethry is "distantly related" to him.
No, as LP pointed out, Fethry's the one who says he and Donald are distantly related. For Donald, it's "not distant enough".
Matilda, if Upsy were the son of one of Humperdink's father's brothers and thus his first cousin, that would make Upsy Quackmore's first cousin once removed, correct? If so, would Fethry (as Upsy's son) be Quackmore's first cousin twice removed? And in that scenario, what would you call the relationship between Donald and Fethry? I kind of prefer this scenario to Upsy being Humperdink's brother, because to me, even second cousins seem a little too close to be called "distant".
Also, from what I can see, "Upsy" is a nickname, so we need to come up with his actual name, as well as the name of his father (Humperdink's brother or cousin as the case may be) for reference.
As for the Douglas McDuck/Whitewater Duck relationship, how do you propose Whitewater has the last name "Duck"? I think he should be related to Donald through his paternal side. I'd prefer that we not introduce yet another family named "Duck" unrelated to Donald.
No, no. I'm not talking about Upsy. I'm talking about the line that sparked this entire discussion, in the Kinney story, where Donald says Fethry is "distantly related" to him.
No, as LP pointed out, Fethry's the one who says he and Donald are distantly related. For Donald, it's "not distant enough".
Ah, my mistake. Though my solution will in that case rely on the fact that it's entirely in-character for Fethry to get confused on his own genealogy. For example, perhaps, a la Lemony Snicket, he thinks being "distantly related" refers to people who are related (even 'closely') but live a long way away from each other.
I personally prefer to think of Gran'daddy Daniel as Donald's great-grandfather.
I would have too, except that there's a completely different character, with the last name Duck, who's explicitly Donald's great-grandfather — as I said, Bluffer. Hence I took the way out offered by the fact that it was one of the Elders who called him "gran'daddy", offering the possibility that he was that Elder's grandfather and not necessarily a direct ancestor of Donald's.
As for having one Elder be the other's son, I dunno, the one with the longer beard seemed older than the other one. I was reminded of he Dawes Sr. and Jr. in Marry Poppins.
Baar Baar Jinx: If Upsy were Humperdink's first cousin (son of H's father's brother), to Quackmore would he would be "my father's cousin." Loosely in a familial setting, Quackmore might use the title "Cousin" or "Uncle" for Upsy (probably depending on Upsy's age in relation to Quackmore). Again, "once removed" is only used for the generational step *down*, as I understand the system. In this scenario Fethry would be Humperdink's first cousin once removed, but the relationship so named is not reciprocal. To Fethry Humperdink would be "my father's cousin." Fethry and Quackmore would be second cousins. Donald would be Fethry's second cousin once removed. Fethry would be Donald's father's second cousin. --Note to all (I know BBJ realizes this): this is *not* the situation LP suggests: he suggests that Upsy is Humperdink's brother's son, Humperdink's nephew and Quackmore's first cousin. In that scenario Donald and Fethry are second cousins.--
If we are assuming an alternative family tree for Fethry, I think we should consider people like Paperdick (Dick Duck in the Netherlands) and Dudly D. Duck who are visually very similar to him.
Paperdick
Dudly D. Duck
I see from INDUCKS that Dudly is Donald's cousin; at least, Donald calls him "Cousin Dudly." I don't see the resemblance there. Paperdick is said to be a poor uncle of Donald's. Indeed, Paperdick looks somewhat like Fethry (INDUCKS says he's a mix of Fethry and Ludwig Von Drake visually). Paperdick could indeed be another candidate for Fethry's father. To make him an actual uncle, you'd have to change Rosa's tree closer to home. You could do what LP is doing with Upsy, and make him Donald's father's cousin and Fethry's father, thus making Fethry and Donald second cousins. In that case, Upsy could be Donald's great-uncle, the brother of Humperdink and father of Paperdick (who needs an English name).
Is anything ever said about either of these being related to anyone we know?
Paperdick is a cousin of Scrooge's. (In the original, he returned to Duckburg from a trip to America where'd become rich, then lost it all.)
Dudly D. Duck is just a relation of Donald's, distant enough that he didn't know they were related at first.
(Both characters appear in my tree, btw.)
Ah, you responded to my original post, before I checked INDUCKS and changed it. INDUCKS says Paperdick is an uncle of Donald's--if he's a cousin of Scrooge's, then that's not technically the case. But Donald may call him "uncle" in the loose sense. And if he's on Scrooge's side of the family, then he can't be the father of Fethry unless we introduce another Duck family into the picture. Like Baar Baar Jinx, I am opposed to that.
If Dudly is just some vague relation, then yes, the "Cousin" address INDUCKS cites is just a generic use of "cousin" as address for a relative.
In this scenario Fethry would be Humperdink's first cousin once removed, but the relationship so named is not reciprocal. To Fethry Humperdink would be "my father's cousin." Fethry and Quackmore would be second cousins. Donald would be Fethry's second cousin once removed. Fethry would be Donald's father's second cousin.
Thanks; thus, if Upsy's father and Humperdink were first cousins instead of brothers, Donald would still technically be Fethry's "cousin" (but not vice-versa); so, the "distant" and "cousin" requirements would both in a way be fulfilled. Yes, I know LP prefers the simpler version of Humperdink and Upsy's father being brothers, but their being cousins is still feasible.
Posted by Scrooge MacDuck:
Ah, my mistake. Though my solution will in that case rely on the fact that it's entirely in-character for Fethry to get confused on his own genealogy. For example, perhaps, a la Lemony Snicket, he thinks being "distantly related" refers to people who are related (even 'closely') but live a long way away from each other.
Here I agree with LP; suggesting that characters are lying or confused gives the impression of stretching things to fit one's preferred narrative or letting authors off the hook for plotholes or mid-stream course reversals (the only case I can think of where the latter strategy was successfully employed was when, in The Empire Strikes Back, Obi-Wan was retroactively shown to be lying to Luke about his father's fate in A New Hope. It also helps that Sir Alec Guinness serendipitously seems to be uncomfortable and displaying the classic tells of untruthfulness when doing so although he had no idea at the time that his character would later be revealed to be lying). Besides, there's no evidence that Fethry lives far away from Donald, is there?
Believe me, I too wish Fethry could have stayed Donald's first cousin, but a comment from Kinney/Hubbard, his creators, to the contrary makes it no longer tenable in my headcanon.
Paperdick is a cousin of Scrooge's. (In the original, he returned to Duckburg from a trip to America where'd become rich, then lost it all.)
Dudly D. Duck is just a relation of Donald's, distant enough that he didn't know they were related at first.
(Both characters appear in my tree, btw.)
Ah, you responded to my original post, before I checked INDUCKS and changed it. INDUCKS says Paperdick is an uncle of Donald's--if he's a cousin of Scrooge's, then that's not technically the case. But Donald may call him "uncle" in the loose sense. And if he's on Scrooge's side of the family, then he can't be the father of Fethry unless we introduce another Duck family into the picture. Like Baar Baar Jinx, I am opposed to that.
If Dudly is just some vague relation, then yes, the "Cousin" address INDUCKS cites is just a generic use of "cousin" as address for a relative.
In the story both Donald and the nephews call him uncle, on this in story is given great importance. Moreover, Donald is afraid that Gladstone will know of his arrival from Europe because he is also a relative of Paperdick.
Here I agree with LP; suggesting that characters are lying or confused gives the impression of stretching things to fit one's preferred narrative or letting authors off the hook for plotholes or mid-stream course reversals (the only case I can think of where the latter strategy was successfully employed was when, in The Empire Strikes Back, Obi-Wan was retroactively shown to be lying to Luke about his father's fate in A New Hope. It also helps that Sir Alec Guinness serendipitously seems to be uncomfortable and displaying the classic tells of untruthfulness when doing so although he had no idea at the time that his character would later be revealed to be lying). Besides, there's no evidence that Fethry lives far away from Donald, is there?
Believe me, I too wish Fethry could have stayed Donald's first cousin, but a comment from Kinney/Hubbard, his creators, to the contrary makes it no longer tenable in my headcanon.
Doing so to excuse authors is one thing; it is another to do so in order to conserve a coherent canon, without pretending that that's how the authors meant it. It's no different from Don Rosa chalking up certain statements by Scrooge in Barks which don't fit his L&T timeline to blinkus-of-the-thinkus from Back to the Klondike.
In this case, I think assuming Fethry is confused is no less far-fetched than the Obi-Wan prestidigitation (or certain other retcons that had to be made to Star Wars lore because of it), because I strongly argue against ever assuming Fethry knows what he's talking about, whatever it is.
Besides, there's no evidence that Fethry lives far away from Donald, is there?
Yeah there is. Or, well — he probably moved back to Duckburg at some point during or after the Kinney/Hubbard run, but — his introduction story has him arriving to Duckburg by aeroplane, and Donald hasn't seen him since their youth. (This is, by the way, nicely congruent with Eider Duck sending Donald the falcon through the mail, rather than ever visiting in person.)