A question about Cornelius Coot

[Baar Baar Jinx]

Jan 5, 2019 18:51:14 GMT LP said:

Jan 5, 2019 18:38:41 GMT Baar Baar Jinx said:

If Gladstone and Fred were brothers, it probably should have been mentioned. I believe he was referred to as both Donald and Gladstone's cousin, wasn't he? Oh wait ... you said "secret brother" ... how do you propose that be the case? Another Scrooge-Rumpus type situation?

To be honest, I don't know anything about Fred except for what he looks like. I was only half-joking with the Gladstone-connection, but I kinda like it. I didn't even know that Gladstone was in the Fred-story. 
With "secret brother" I only meant that we haven't been introduced to the father of Shamrock before. 

I might be mistaken in who Fred actually is. Can someone post an image, and the INDUCKS link to the story he appeared in? Is he the cousin of Donald and Gladstone who was in a story from a ten-pager published in an issue of WDC&S that came out early in Gladstone-I's run, involving some kind of painting that he had given Donald who in turn gave it to Gladstone, and they were both trying to get it back so as not to upset Fred? Searching for "Fred Duck" on INDUCKS doesn't turn anything up, but now I learn that his last name wasn't revealed to be "Duck" anyway.

I'm perfectly fine with Fred Gander being Gladstone's brother if there's nothing to contradict it in the story he appeared in, although "Gladstone" and "Fred" are very dissimilar names for brothers to have. Also, do Gladstone's siblings also possess his incredible luck? Something to ponder.

EDIT: Okay, if this is the story that Fred appears in, then yes, it's the one I was thinking of, and Gladstone is in it, and IIRC, Fred is described as "cousin" to both of them. So he can't be Gladstone's brother. I don't have the story for easy reference, so I can't confirm whether his last name is mentioned or not, but others on this thread have stated that it is not, and I have no reason to doubt it. This is also the character that some have proposed is AM&J's father; his last name was apparently chosen to be "Duck" by someone constructing  a family tree outside the comics. 

[LP]

I assumed we were talking about this guy. He was identified as Gus Goose's brother (and therefore a cousin of both Donald and Gladstone) on Gilles Maurice's tree. I'm not sure which story he is from originally, though. 

[Baar Baar Jinx]

Jan 5, 2019 19:15:28 GMT LP said:

I assumed we were talking about this guy. He was identified as Gus Goose's brother (and therefore a cousin of both Donald and Gladstone) on Gilles Maurice's tree. I'm not sure which story he is from originally, though. 

I wonder where Maurice got his last name "Goose" and that he's Gus' brother? I don't think the original story specified that. There's apparently a Monique Peterson book that calls him "Fred Duck" and identifies him as AM&J's father.

[Dr Ivo G Bombastus]

No no no, Fred the Duck or Fred Duck is a different character.

I swear I've seen pictures of him somewhere before.

[Scrooge MacDuck]

Jan 5, 2019 19:18:55 GMT Baar Baar Jinx said:

Jan 5, 2019 19:15:28 GMT LP said:

I assumed we were talking about this guy. He was identified as Gus Goose's brother (and therefore a cousin of both Donald and Gladstone) on Gilles Maurice's tree. I'm not sure which story he is from originally, though. 

I wonder where Maurice got his last name "Goose" and that he's Gus' brother? I don't think the original story specified that. There's apparently a Monique Peterson book that calls him "Fred Duck" and identifies him as AM&J's father.

I think Maurice just saw that he looked like Gus, and was Donald's cousin, and used Occam's Razor. 

[LP]

Jan 5, 2019 21:41:35 GMT Scrooge MacDuck said:

I think Maurice just saw that he looked like Gus, and was Donald's cousin, and used Occam's Razor. 

I believe you are correct!

I found and read the story, and Fred's last name is indeed never mentioned. And Gladstone does refer to him as "cousin Fred". 


I'm curious about the other Fred Duck that Dr Ivo G Bombastus mentioned. Do you remember anything about this character?

[Ramapith]

The Gus-like Fred is from THIS story. Milton originally wrote him as Fethry, but the Dutch editors wouldn't let Milton use Fethry, so Fred was created instead.

[Baar Baar Jinx]

Jan 5, 2019 21:23:55 GMT Dr Ivo G Bombastus said:

No no no, Fred the Duck or Fred Duck is a different character.

I swear I've seen pictures of him somewhere before.

Fred "the" Duck? That's not how names in the Duckverse work!
Does anyone have any information on this non-Gus-like Fred?

Posted by Ramapith:

The Gus-like Fred is from THIS story. Milton originally wrote him as Fethry, but the Dutch editors wouldn't let Milton use Fethry, so Fred was created instead.

Was his name "Fred" in all versions, or just the English version? If the latter, what were his names in other languages?

It's kind of odd that this obscure character is generating so much discussion; if I remember that story right, he was rather nondescript and fairly forgettable. 

[xanderares]

Jan 6, 2019 2:38:34 GMT Baar Baar Jinx said:

Jan 5, 2019 21:23:55 GMT Dr Ivo G Bombastus said:

No no no, Fred the Duck or Fred Duck is a different character.

I swear I've seen pictures of him somewhere before.

Fred "the" Duck? That's not how names in the Duckverse work!
Does anyone have any information on this non-Gus-like Fred?

There are two different Fred the Duck, but they're not Disney characters, they're not even called Fred the Duck, they're called so by fans of their shows.
They've been used in memes with Donald Duck, creating the false belief that they were minor characters in Duckverse.

The first is Fred Duck from the cartoon show "Garfield and Friends"


The second is Fred from the cartoon show "The Powerpuff Girls"

[LP]

I made my own tree of my take on what we discussed about Fethry. I also added Moby as his uncle (making Moby Donald's second cousin once removed). I think this a really neat position, considering Moby has been called both Donald's uncle and cousin. Dimwitty's placement works well too, since he is Moby's nephew (I guess) and resembles Fethry (and Upsy) too! 

While writing this I realized that I probably got the idea of linking Moby and Fethry from Don Rosa's family tree sketch, where he at first had them as father and son.

[Baar Baar Jinx]

Jan 7, 2019 10:55:34 GMT LP said:

I made my own tree of my take on what we discussed about Fethry. I also added Moby as his uncle (making Moby Donald's second cousin once removed). I think this a really neat position, considering Moby has been called both Donald's uncle and cousin. Dimwitty's placement works well too, since he is Moby's nephew (I guess) and resembles Fethry (and Upsy) too! 

While writing this I realized that I probably got the idea of linking Moby and Fethry from Don Rosa's family tree sketch, where he at first had them as father and son.

I like this! I personally would have preferred that Upsy Duck be the son of a first cousin of Humperdink's, rather than of a brother, but understand Matilda's point that he couldn't be Donald's great-uncle in that case.

We need a name for Upsy's father. Maybe Dabney, the name that Rosa gave Humperdink before he learnt that he had a previously established name? Or would that be too confusing since the original version of the Rosa tree (where Humperdink carries the name Dabney) is still out there?

Also, I believe (based on the panels I've seen online) that "Upsy" is a nickname. Was his real name revealed? If not, we should come up with one.

I notice that in Gilles Maurice's enormously famous, famously enormous Duck Family Tree, Upsy is actually an uncle of Daisy's! (I actually dislike the idea that Daisy is related in any way to Donald and Gladstone.)

Perhaps Whitewater could be the son of the other Duck elder you show in your figure?  Or a son of a cousin (rather than a brother) of Humperdink's?

I don't know enough about Moby or Dimwitty to comment on their inclusion. They're not as "real" in my headcanon as Fethry for me to care too much.

LP, have you created any full Duck family trees of your own? I was hoping to see one that shows Ludwig as the son of Grandma's mother's sister and "Hofrat Von Drake", as was revealed in the German translation of "Duckburg, USA" (the story in which Ludwig makes his comics debut), and which is in consonance with Grandma calling him her "cousin" in "Barn Dance Doctor"; we discussed this on the "Ludwig Von Drake" thread. 

[LP]

Upsy's real name was never revealed, but I fail to understand the need to invent a real one. On the other hand, I can understand wanting to name nameless characters, since it makes referencing them easier. Since they're supposed to be elders, we want really old-sounding names. I'd go for Humphrey for the one I put as Upsy's father, and Wilbur for the one with the really long beard.
(I'd like to point out that I don't really have a strong opinion in any way about which of the two elders that should be Upsy's father. I only picked one at random.)

I also dislike Donald and Gladstone being related to Daisy! And I have no idea why Gilles Maurice put Upsy where he did on his tree.

Since there is a story where Whitewater is said to be a son of the McDucks, I'm at least fine with keeping him on that branch.

I consider Moby to a big enough character to ignore, so he can be real in my head-canon. And since Dimwitty appears as his side-kick for the most part, I thought I'd add him too.

Well, the other day when I started doing the tree I just posted, I intended it to be a visualization of just this branch. But then it expanded, as my interest in the subject revived. I struggled with placing Ludwig. I want him as Donald's uncle somewhere, since that's the way he was introduced. But he has the von Drake-surname, which makes that difficult.
I have heard of him being Grandma's cousin, but I haven't yet read that story you mentioned. The only problem is, he would cease to be Donald's uncle if he was Grandma's cousin.
I currently have him as Matilda McDuck's husband, so then he's at least an uncle-in-law.

As a side-note, I thought about adding Daisy and her family as Ludwig's niece. That is what Asger Pedersen proposed, since she calls him "uncle" too. But then I found the Al Taliaferro-strip where Donald introduces Ludwig to Daisy as his own uncle, which contradicts the Daisy-relation.

[Scrooge MacDuck]

Jan 7, 2019 14:48:25 GMT LP said:

I'd go for Humphrey for the one I put as Upsy's father, and Wilbur for the one with the really long beard.

That may not be that felicitous a decision, since there are notable Disney comic characters by those names already — Humphrey the Bear and Wilbur the Grasshopper. 

Jan 7, 2019 14:48:25 GMT LP said:

I consider Moby to a big enough character to ignore,

I don't think this sentence means what you think it means.

Jan 7, 2019 14:48:25 GMT LP said:

I have heard of him being Grandma's cousin, but I haven't yet read that story you mentioned. The only problem is, he would cease to be Donald's uncle if he was Grandma's cousin.
I currently have him as Matilda McDuck's husband, so then he's at least an uncle-in-law.

As a side-note, I thought about adding Daisy and her family as Ludwig's niece. That is what Asger Pedersen proposed, since she calls him "uncle" too. But then I found the Al Taliaferro-strip where Donald introduces Ludwig to Daisy as his own uncle, which contradicts the Daisy-relation.

Can't he be all of these at once? Related to Grandma on one side of his family and Daisy on the other, and he married Matilda. The threefold relation makes Donald describe him as "kind of an uncle". 

As for why he'd bother telling this to Daisy, well, just because he's related to Daisy doesn't mean she knows him personally, what with him having lived in Austria for years prior to the 1960's comics which show his arrival in Duckburg. So Donald could be perfectly introducing him to Daisy (with or without knowledge of the fact that she too is related to him), explaining that he is a relation of his to exlain how he knows him. 

[Baar Baar Jinx]

Jan 7, 2019 14:48:25 GMT LP said:

I struggled with placing Ludwig. I want him as Donald's uncle somewhere, since that's the way he was introduced. But he has the von Drake-surname, which makes that difficult.
I have heard of him being Grandma's cousin, but I haven't yet read that story you mentioned. The only problem is, he would cease to be Donald's uncle if he was Grandma's cousin.
I currently have him as Matilda McDuck's husband, so then he's at least an uncle-in-law.

As we discussed on Ludwig's dedicated thread, "uncle" is a very broad term. If Ludwig is Donald's grandmother's cousin, it's very conceivable that he would call him his uncle, especially since he's so much older than Donald and there's no other term for it. In the Taliaferro strip, Ludwig is referred to as a "kind of an uncle" to Donald, suggesting that it's not a straightforward relationship. Grandma clearly refers to Ludwig as her cousin in "Barn Dance Doctor" (relevant panel posted in the Ludwig thread), and the German translation of "Duckburg, USA" is apparently very specific about the relationship, which there's no good reason that I can see to ignore. On the other hand, except for Rosa's whimsical decision, there's nothing to support the Ludwig-Matilda marriage theory (and arguments to be made against it, namely Ludwig's declared and implicit bachelorhood status in both animation and the comics, as well as Barks' reported objection to Rosa's idea).

Oh, and re: Whitewater, as discussed earlier, his last name being Duck, and yet his being related to Donald on the McDuck side, means you'd be introducing yet another family named Duck unrelated to Donald unless there was also a paternal connection. So maybe one of the Duck elders married Douglas McDuck's sister, making Whitewater Douglas' nephew as suggested by Jensen? (I don't really care much about Douglas anyway, he's not "real" in my headcanon; how is he supposed to be related to Scrooge?)

(BTW, if Ludwig were indeed married to Matilda, he's be Donald's uncle, not his uncle-in-law; an uncle-in-law is the uncle of one's spouse. You could say "uncle by marriage", though.)

[Scrooge MacDuck]

Jan 7, 2019 15:47:28 GMT Baar Baar Jinx said:

(I don't really care much about Douglas anyway, he's not "real" in my headcanon; how is he supposed to be related to Scrooge?)

He's a cousin, sufficiently close that Douglas's father and Fergus knew each other. (According to a later story, Douglas was actually adopted.)