The dates you are talking about are from Rosa's "A Letter From Home" from 2004. So he must have changed his mind after that DCML post.
Thanks, I've added a note to the Wiki that both dates have been used.
So the official birth years are indeed 1835 for Fergus, and 1840 for Downy, since that's what Rosa last chose.
Why did he think 1840 for Downy was wrong in the first place? It makes much more sense than the 1830 he cited in that DCML post. And why change Fergus' birth year from 1830 to 1835? Did he ever comment?
Scrooge MacDuck posted:
So how about, instead: Duckson O'Drake was long-lived enough to remarry after Jenny passed away, and so Future-Mrs-Fowl is a half-sister, born in the late 1870's?
I guess that could theoretically work, but it would completely destroy the romanticized picture I have in my head of the Three O'Drake Sisters growing up together as a close-knit family unit. This half-sister of Downy's would have to be at least two decades younger than her and grown up in a different household, and therefore they're unlikely to have had a typical sibling relationship. And of course, Fergus' new wife would have to be not much older than his oldest children.
Post by TheMidgetMoose on Jan 12, 2019 14:45:07 GMT
May I suggest an alternative solution to the Eider-Fethry-Whitewater problem that does not involve so much of a changing of Rosa's tree? If you want Eider to be Fethry and Whitewater's father, but you still want to be consistent with Barks saying that Whitewater was a distant cousin and Kinney saying Fethry was a distant cousin, I think there is way. Make Eider no longer be the biological son of Grandpa and Grandma Duck. Instead, he's actually a nephew or something to one of them, and he was adopted when his parents died.
Does it seem out of character for Grandpa and Grandma to adopt a young relative with no parents? No, not as far as I know.
This also makes it where Fethry and Whitewater can be Donald's distant cousins biologically, though you could still say they are first cousins due to Eider's adoption. Also, depending on what characters exist in your headcanon, you could make Donald's line about Scrooge being his only uncle work as Eider is not biologically Donald's uncle, even if he is the adopted brother of Donald's father.
Finally, the Coots. Okay, so I think the only odd stuff here is the placement of Grandpa Duck from No Hunting. But, since most people have accepted that he isn't Donald's grandpa, and instead go for his great-great-grandpa (as Gilles Maurice did), I thought I'd do so too. However, considering his beak-shape, I thought he'd fit better here. Oh yeah, and after reading the Ludwig von Drake-thread, I fully embrace him as Grandma's cousin. I like him as Matilda's husband too, but I'm too tired now.
Hey, that's it! Tell me what you agree with and what I got wrong!
I agree with you fully on the point which I've emboldened. Actually, even though you may have trouble believing this, I thought the same thing when I re-watched No Hunting and realized that his last name is never stated within the short and that his beak matches almost perfectly with Gertrude Gadwall's. As to how many generations he should be above Donald, No Hunting makes me feel as if it should be more than one, based on both his apparel and that the fact that he yells "Remember the Alamo!" at one point, which isn't solid evidence, but does lead me to believe that he may have participated in the Texas Revolution, which took place in 1836, which would mean that if he fought at the young age of 13, he would have been born in 1823, much too old for Donald's grandpa in my opinion.
No matter what I say or do, know that Jesus loves you.
May I suggest an alternative solution to the Eider-Fethry-Whitewater problem that does not involve so much of a changing of Rosa's tree? If you want Eider to be Fethry and Whitewater's father, but you still want to be consistent with Barks saying that Whitewater was a distant cousin and Kinney saying Fethry was a distant cousin, I think there is way. Make Eider no longer be the biological son of Grandpa and Grandma Duck. Instead, he's actually a nephew or something to one of them, and he was adopted when his parents died.
Does it seem out of character for Grandpa and Grandma do adopt a young relative with no parents? No, not as far as I know.
This also makes it where Fethry and Whitewater can be Donald's distant cousins biologically, though you could still say they are first cousins due to Eider's adoption. Also, depending on what characters exist in your headcanon, you could make Donald's line about Scrooge being his only uncle work as Eider is not biologically Donald's uncle, even if he is the adopted brother of Donald's father.
That's not bad.
Myself, I always looked at this a case of "distant" meaning physically distant, not genetically distant.
Since the word "headcanon" gets thrown around here a lot, mine is this: Eider basically moved some distance away from Duckburg when he grew up. Whether it was a job, whether it was because Lulabelle Loon's family lived far away, there could be any number of reasons. Donald barely knew either Fethry or Whitewater until he looked up Whitewater. After that, Fethry shows up in Duckburg to start bugging Donald. ("Log Jockey" was published in 1962, "The Health Nut" created in 1964). That's how it could work as I see it, anyway.
To use a real-life anecdotal example, I have first cousins that were born and raised after one of my uncles moved to the other side of the country. I've seen them at the occasional family event but I'd struggle to pick them out of a police line-up. "Distant" cousins in a literal sense, less that the colloquial one.
Even if it doesn't quite match up with the Barksian "facts" I've always really liked the concept of the Duck-Loon family. Whitewater, who appears in a single story, is portrayed as an eccentric guy from the neck of the woods. "Uncle Eider" only gets a single one-panel mention in a completely different story, but he sends Donald a falcon - which suggests he, too, is an eccentric guy in tune with nature. Makes perfect sense for them to be father and son, and Fethry of course is the epitome of eccentric, so that fits too. I'd actually like them to appear in a story together at some point.
Nah, you're not the only one who likes this idea. More than once I thought about trying to come up with a story where Fethry and Whitewater appear together, and completely drive each other nuts with Donald caught in the middle.
Myself, I always looked at this a case of "distant" meaning physically distant, not genetically distant.
To use a real-life anecdotal example, I have first cousins that were born and raised after one of my uncles moved to the other side of the country. I've seen them at the occasional family event but I'd struggle to pick them out of a police line-up. "Distant" cousins in a literal sense, less that the colloquial one.
But "distantly related", as Kinney/Hubbard said Fethry and Donald are? It's hard to imagine that someone means geographically distant with that phrase. And, has been pointed out, Donald only learned about Whitewater from " a family album". Even if you're not close to your father's brother's children or have never even spoken to them, would you really not even know that they exist until well into adulthood?
The theory about Eider being adopted is clever, but once Eider officially becomes Grandma's son and Donald's uncle, I'm not sure his kids would be called "distant cousins". That's the same argument I make about why Scrooge calling Gladstone his "distant nephew" in "Some Heir Over the Rainbow"means that Barks probably abandoned the "Gladstone was adopted by Matilda" idea by then.
Myself, I always looked at this a case of "distant" meaning physically distant, not genetically distant.
To use a real-life anecdotal example, I have first cousins that were born and raised after one of my uncles moved to the other side of the country. I've seen them at the occasional family event but I'd struggle to pick them out of a police line-up. "Distant" cousins in a literal sense, less that the colloquial one.
But "distantly related", as Kinney/Hubbard said Fethry and Donald are? It's hard to imagine that someone means geographically distant with that phrase. And, has been pointed out, Donald only learned about Whitewater from " a family album". Even if you're not close to your father's brother's children or have never even spoken to them, would you really not even know that they exist until well into adulthood?
The theory about Eider being adopted is clever, but once Eider officially becomes Grandma's son and Donald's uncle, I'm not sure his kids would be called "distant cousins". That's the same argument I make about why Scrooge calling Gladstone his "distant nephew" in "Some Heir Over the Rainbow"means that Barks probably abandoned the "Gladstone was adopted by Matilda" idea by then.
I see where you're coming from. The way I see it though, if you combine my theory that has Eider as a more distant relative and the thought that he lives far away, I, personally, think it's not too ridiculous to assume that Whitewater and Fethry could be referred to as Donald's distant cousins. Sure, it doesn't make perfect sense, but I don't think it is entirely unbelievable. Perhaps Eider still kind of sees himself as not being Grandma's son. Maybe, despite the fact that Grandma and Grandpa loved him like a son, he couldn't get over the fact that he wasn't really their son. Maybe his parents died when he was old enough to remember them, so, even though Grandma considered him one "of our young'uns" as per The Invader of Fort Duckburg, he sees himself as a distant relative, leading to his kids being referred to as distant relatives.
It could make an interesting story to have Eider return to Duckburg with the revelation that he's spent practically his whole life struggling with his identity and wanting to know more about his biological parents. Events in Duckburg, maybe some deep conversations with Fethry, cause him to realize that he's spent his whole life looking for something he already had. He realizes that the folks that raised him, Grandma and Grandpa Duck, are the only parents he needs, and he apologizes to Grandma for being so focused on his past that he neglected those who love him in the present. It's incredibly cheesy, but I like it!
No matter what I say or do, know that Jesus loves you.
Hello there. LP here. I've updated my Duck tree, and I thought I'd share it. I'll write a note on any changes and new additions. Once again, the full image is too large, so I had to divide it up into smaller parts.
The Ducks:
Okay, so first of all, I've changed Deborah to be a biological daughter to Elvira and Humperdink. I've also removed Mehitabel Mudhen as Matilda McDuck's daughter, and added her as Deborah's offspring. Fred has been added as Eider Duck's son, even though Fred doesn't necessarily exists in my head-canon. But whatever. Alright, I've finally been able to read the Civil War story, I TL 683-A. Now, I've only read the Swedish translation, but Donald clearly says "It is my grandfather's (specifically father's father's) father Donald!". At the end of the story, Civil War-Donald is considered a hero (he even gets a star medal), so we can presume that he goes on to become the sheriff known as Bluffer Duck in W OS 995-02.
As you can see, I've now also included the Ganders in my tree. Goostave's father is Gladstone Gander of Basketville, from W WDC 300-01. This story is an obvious parody of The Hound of the Baskervilles, and since the original story is set in 1889, I assume the parody is as well. The Gander that's one generation older, the South State lieutenant, is from the same story as Civil War-Donald. I decided that it would make the most sense if the anonymous Civil War-girl got together with the Gander, rather than with Donald. This is because the story takes place during the Civil War, somewhere in between 1861-1865. But Grandma Elvira is supposed to have been born in 1855. I assume Grandpa Humperdink is at least as old as her. That means that Humperdink would already have been born during the Civil War-story. This in turn means that Humperdink's father cannot meet Humperdink's mother for the first time a few years after he himself is born. The alternative would be that Humperdink is around ten years younger than Elvira, and is born soon after the Civil War-story. However, Quackmore is born in 1875. That would make Humperdink at most 14 when Quackmore is born. This does not work. So Lieutenant Gander's wife it is! (I hope my reasoning makes sense!)
Now, here's the other part of the Duck family: This project escalated a little, and I added way more generations than I had originally intended. Oh well. I've put gran'daddy Daniel Duck as "the Elders of the Duck Clan's" grandfather. I thought that would be fitting. (Also, now that I've thought about it, I prefer him as a separate character to Civil War-Donald.) If Civil War-Donald was around 25 in his story, he would have been born around 1840. Then Daniel Duck could have been born around 1820, and thus would have been 58 in 1878 when he spotted the hurricane in W DD 111-01. The Scrooge McDuck on this part of the tree is Civil War-Donald's uncle. Early on in the story, he is referred to as "mr McDuck" by a general. So he has to be a maternal uncle. Silas Elias McDuck is an ancestor mentioned in W DD 41-02. He is supposed to be Donald's grandfather, but he can't be. Also, his last name is really Duck, but Scrooge claims to be related to him. Gilles Maurice solved this by saying that his name is really McDuck. Let's go with that.
I still think that Bridger and Crockett Duck should be one single character. The real life Davy Crockett lived 1786-1836. Now, I've only read about Bridger on the French Picsou-wiki, but if he hung around Cornelius Coot in 1810, then he should at least belong to the same generation as Crockett. Crockett's wife is the grandma from the Civil War-story. Since Davy Crockett's real life-wife was called Polly Finley, maybe a good fan-name for her Duck-version would be Polly Finch, or Finchey. Oh well. In the Basketville-story, it is said that Basket-Gladstone's ancestor Crabstone Gander, lived there a hundred years ago. So 1889-100=1789. And Crabstone looked to be around 50-60 years old in the flashbacks, so he should have been born around 1729-1739. I put him four generations below Basket-Gladstone. I'll cover the rest in my next post.
Okay, so it's McDuck-time. Rumpus and Downy's sisters have been added. As mentioned before, I have put Silas Elias McDuck as the father of Titus and Quagmire. Okay, so Hugh "Seafoam" McDuck is supposed to have been born in 1710. Don Rosa's History of Clan McDuck-sketches tell us that Potcrack invented a steam-powered bagpipe in 1767. Hugh probably produced offspring around 1735. This would make Potcrack around 22 when he invented the thing. Makes sense. Next up, McTavish from W DD 42-01... In the story he is named McTavish Duck, but Scrooge is apparently also related to him, which would make no sense. Also, he comes from Scotland. Also, McTavish is said to have a family coat of arms, something we've never seen the Duck family have (I don't think at least). However, the McDuck clan clearly has one. Since Gilles Maurice felt comfortable retconning Silas Elias Duck into being a McDuck, I feel comfortable doing the same with McTavish. Okay, so in the story, people have been searching for McTavish's heirs for 200 years. And McTavish was born in 17XX. This makes sense, if you consider the rough present to be the 1950s. So I made McTavish a brother of Potcrack, both born around the 1730s. McTavish probably died young, but first produced a daughter that married a Lochbert Gander. He in turn was said to be the son of a Nicolas Gander (but only in the Danish translation, if I understand correctly).
Finally, the Coots:
Not much new to say here. I've added an image and name to Cornelius Coot's wife (even though the name isn't official). I thought I'd do the same with Gertrude Gadwall's mother, since Gilles Maurice's tree mentions Elvira's "Grandma Hortensia". I also added Grandpa Goose from Mark Worden's family tree, and finally Gus from the Civil War-story. He isn't mentioned as being related to Donald, so he's just here by himself. And that's that. I hope this was as fun and interesting to read for you as it was for me to research and write. As before, tell me what you agree and disagree with.
The Scrooge McDuck on this part of the tree is Civil War-Donald's uncle. Early on in the story, he is referred to as "mr McDuck" by a general. So he has to be a maternal uncle.
That's interesting about this version at least calling Donald Duck Snr Donald's great-grandfather. And yeah, I guess it's possible for him to become Bluffer.
On the other hand, I think the translation here is misleading if it calls the Scrooge of that story "Mr McDuck". In the original, he's only ever called "Paperon", with no last name given; it's usually assumed that the resemblance to Scrooge is coincidental and he isn't a McDuck, as there can only have been so many Duck-McDuck weddings before Hortense and Quackmore before plausibility is stretched really thin. Most people just Occam's-Razor him to be called Scrooge Duck, but I suppose he could be a maternal uncle with a completely different name.
Post by Baar Baar Jinx on Jan 13, 2019 21:57:21 GMT
Quick question re: Scrooge's maternal grandfather. The name "Duckson O'Drake", as used on the Scrooge McDuck Wiki, is referred to as an unofficial approximation of his Italian name. What is the original Italian name? And where is the image of the character on the Scrooge McDuck Wiki from? Does the original version clearly identify the character as Scrooge's maternal grandfather (the English version, the only one I have read, gives his role to Fergus McDuck)? The art in the English version of the story seems very obviously heavily edited; what other changes were made and, if anyone knows, why?
That's interesting about this version at least calling Donald Duck Snr Donald's great-grandfather. And yeah, I guess it's possible for him to become Bluffer.
On the other hand, I think the translation here is misleading if it calls the Scrooge of that story "Mr McDuck". In the original, he's only ever called "Paperon", with no last name given; it's usually assumed that the resemblance to Scrooge is coincidental and he isn't a McDuck, as there can only have been so many Duck-McDuck weddings before Hortense and Quackmore before plausibility is stretched really thin. Most people just Occam's-Razor him to be called Scrooge Duck, but I suppose he could be a maternal uncle with a completely different name.
***
That's very clever. Approved.
Oh yes. In the Swedish version at least, there's no question about it: Donald senior is Humperdink's father.
I'd very much prefer if the Scrooge in this story was not a McDuck. I agree with you - I don't like too many Duck-McDuck relationships. Quackmore - Hortense is enough for me. Here's the Swedish panel where he is called "McDuck": GENERAL: "Good day, mr McDuck!"
If the last name is omitted in the original Italian version, I guess the McDuck-part could be considered a simple translation error. He does call Grandma "Grandma", though, so he's probably not her son. So I'd still keep him as Donald's maternal uncle - just not a McDuck.
Quick question re: Scrooge's maternal grandfather. The name "Duckson O'Drake", as used on the Scrooge McDuck Wiki, is referred to as an unofficial approximation of his Italian name. What is the original Italian name? And where is the image of the character on the Scrooge McDuck Wiki from? Does the original version clearly identify the character as Scrooge's maternal grandfather (the English version, the only one I have read, gives his role to Fergus McDuck)? The art in the English version of the story seems very obviously heavily edited; what other changes were made and, if anyone knows, why?
His original name was MacPaperson, as stated on his wiki page. I thought I had read somewhere that the image on the wiki is just fan art, but I can't find anything to support that now, leading me to believe my mind may have just made that up.
No matter what I say or do, know that Jesus loves you.
Hello there. I was looking around on the Picsou-wiki, and found Scrooge's aunt Sarah, a Taliaferro-character from ZD 62-08-12. picsou.fandom.com/fr/wiki/Sarah_(tante_de_Balthazar_Picsou) I didn't know where to talk to people about this, but since we discussed Rumpus McFowl and his relation to Scrooge earlier in this thread, I thought "hey, why not here?".
Okay, so Scrooge's aunt Sarah - How exactly is she related to Scrooge? I can think of three alternatives: 1) She is Downy and Vera's sister, and Rumpus' mother. This would make her full name Sarah O'Drake. 2) She is Fergus, Jake, and Angus' sister. This would make her full name Sarah McDuck. 3) She is an aunt-by-marriage and thus the wife of one of Fergus' brothers - possibly Douglas' mother, and Whitewater's grandmother. This would make her full name unknown.
Hello there. I was looking around on the Picsou-wiki, and found Scrooge's aunt Sarah, a Taliaferro-character from ZD 62-08-12. picsou.fandom.com/fr/wiki/Sarah_(tante_de_Balthazar_Picsou) I didn't know where to talk to people about this, but since we discussed Rumpus McFowl and his relation to Scrooge earlier in this thread, I thought "hey, why not here?".
Okay, so Scrooge's aunt Sarah - How exactly is she related to Scrooge? I can think of three alternatives: 1) She is Downy and Vera's sister, and Rumpus' mother. This would make her full name Sarah O'Drake. 2) She is Fergus, Jake, and Angus' sister. This would make her full name Sarah McDuck. 3) She is an aunt-by-marriage and thus the wife of one of Fergus' brothers - possibly Douglas' mother, and Whitewater's grandmother. This would make her full name unknown.
I prefer either alternative 1 or 3.
Well, Scrooge says in the story that "We're a very sentimental family." I'd suggest that Sarah is from whichever side of Scrooge's family is more sentimental. Also, it seems that Scrooge went to her house a child, if I understand the comic correctly. That would definitely rule out her being a wife of Pothole and maybe Jake as well.
No matter what I say or do, know that Jesus loves you.
Hello there. I was looking around on the Picsou-wiki, and found Scrooge's aunt Sarah, a Taliaferro-character from ZD 62-08-12. picsou.fandom.com/fr/wiki/Sarah_(tante_de_Balthazar_Picsou) I didn't know where to talk to people about this, but since we discussed Rumpus McFowl and his relation to Scrooge earlier in this thread, I thought "hey, why not here?".
Okay, so Scrooge's aunt Sarah - How exactly is she related to Scrooge? I can think of three alternatives: 1) She is Downy and Vera's sister, and Rumpus' mother. This would make her full name Sarah O'Drake. 2) She is Fergus, Jake, and Angus' sister. This would make her full name Sarah McDuck. 3) She is an aunt-by-marriage and thus the wife of one of Fergus' brothers - possibly Douglas' mother, and Whitewater's grandmother. This would make her full name unknown.
I prefer either alternative 1 or 3.
Well, Scrooge says in the story that "We're a very sentimental family." I'd suggest that Sarah is from whichever side of Scrooge's family is more sentimental. Also, it seems that Scrooge went to her house a child, if I understand the comic correctly. That would definitely rule out her being a wife of Pothole and maybe Jake as well.
I would have loved for this "Aunt Sarah" to be the third O'Drake sister, Rumpus' mother. However, we know from "Travails" that Rumpus' mother is estranged from the McDucks, and would therefore be unlikely to send present-day Scrooge a telegram and a memento from his childhood (which is what the Google translation of that French wiki page suggests happens in the story, which I admittedly have never read). As previously discussed, we don't know exactly when Rumpus' mother turned sour on Fergus, so it's still possible that she and Scrooge had a good relationship when he was a child. But as a Karp-Taliaferro creation, I'd like to include Aunt Sarah on the Family Tree, so I guess I'd have to go with her being a sister to Fergus (likely married and so not living with her brothers or at Castle McDuck).
As an aside, given that Scrooge is at least in his late seventies (even older according to Rosa), I deeply dislike the idea that someone from a generation older than Scrooge could still be alive in present-day continuity, as "Aunt Sarah" seems to be. I know people are going to point to "Uncle Jake" appearing in Barks' own "A Christmas for Shacktown", but as has been argued elsewhere, that was Donald in disguise, and it isn't clear that Scrooge didn't know Jake was dead and was simply playing along with Donald's attempted ruse. And I'd also argue that Grandma isn't a full generation older than Scrooge despite her son being married to Scrooge's sister; Grandma probably had Quackmore, her oldest child, young, and Hortense is a decade younger than Scrooge.
We've never really talked about Vera O'Drake, could she have a family as well? Does Scrooge have any cousins not named McDuck that could be her offspring?