Post by Scrooge MacDuck on Apr 14, 2019 12:56:56 GMT
So it would seem. Not that this would be that much of a surprise, what with it already happening in the old extended-universe media… besides which, I approve of any narrative trick that gets us more onscreen Ian McDiarmid, however arbitrary. That being said, they may be tricking the audience. Maybe it's a recording of some sort, or a vision, or something.
I do wonder if this connects in any way to the rumours around Matt Smith. On the one hand, it's confirmation that the Emperor is involved in the picture; on the other hand, it also points towards McDiarmid still playing him (bless him), and you wouldn't simultaneously have young-Palpatine and old-Palpatine in the same movie, would you?
Even "Galaxy's Edge" couldn't save it. I'm not surprised in the least. It was clear from the very beginning that Disney intended to mercilessly milk this franchise for all it's worth, originality, quality story-telling and world-building be darned. I'll keep an open mind, but I seriously doubt The Rise of Skywalker will redeem this hot mess. Disney is effectively killing Star Wars.
Post by Scrooge MacDuck on Dec 17, 2019 22:27:23 GMT
This died months ago, but I will resurrect it briefly if only to make a note of the fact that I am cautiously interested in "The Rise of Skywalker" for reasons of it containing Ian McDiarmid, who is marvelous in the general case.
Post by Baar Baar Jinx on Dec 18, 2019 3:17:28 GMT
I'm still willing to give it a chance, despite my bitter disappointment with Episodes VII and VIII. Will it redeem Disney Star Wars? It's a tall order. But yes, I have to admit that, gimmicky as it the idea is, Palpatine's resurrection has piqued my interest (The Mandalorian is getting rave reviews, even from those who have soured on the franchise, but I haven't seen it yet so cannot comment).
EDIT: Apparently, many critics who loved The Last Jedihated this one. That bodes well.
Ah, so you've already seen it. I'm seeing it tonight. Wasn't planning on doing so until next week or the week after, but stumbled upon some unavoidable supposed spoilers posted without warning on a Twitter feed dedicated to something else (not a place I expected to get spoilered), and I couldn't tell if they were real or a joke (they sounded pretty bad so I'm hoping the latter), so I thought I'd get it out of the way and not have to worry about that happening again.
Post by Baar Baar Jinx on Dec 20, 2019 17:06:06 GMT
Okay, saw it.
The first thing I have to regretfully report is that the spoilers of unclear veracity that I was exposed to (see my post above) were all accurate. The first confirmation of this came about a third into the movie, and I then realized that I knew how the movie would end, as well as that it would be very bad since the spoilers pointed to an awful storyline. Needless to say, I was quite miffed about both those things (the spoilers were posted on the Twitter account of someone whom I have been following for non-Star Wars related content and whom I have always respected; I have no idea why he would summarize the plot of this movie the day before it was released without any warnings whatsoever. It almost seems like a malicious act directed at his subscribers, and he has not bothered to explain, retract or apologize. Ostensibly he was trying to make a point about how bad the movie was, but he could have done that without spoiling it or at least provided a spoiler warning of some kind. I'm conflicted at this point as to whether I will continue to follow him, there was really no excuse for this).
Secondly, it's clear J J Abrams was trying to salvage what he could from the train-wreck that was The Last Jedi; but there's only so much he could do. It wasn't a very successful effort.
Some have opined that this was the weakest entry of the Disney Trilogy. I actually think both The Last Jedi and The Force Awakens, in that order, were worse, but that's honestly not saying much.
{Spoiler} I haven't seen anyone else say this, but the Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows Part 2 vibe from this movie was very strong, right down to the final Palpatine-Rey battle and Palpatine's death scene, which mirrored Voldemort's very closely (at least the movie version of it). Rey even appears to speak parseltongue at one point! Unfortunately, it just doesn't work for Star Wars. Bringing Palpatine back was always a questionable choice, and it just wasn't handled well. For one thing, the very fact that Palpatine survived Return of the Jedi robs Anakin/Vader's redemption of much of its emotional value. Secondly, unless I missed something, the movie doesn't explain how Palpatine survived the original trilogy, or whether he actually died and was resurrected.
Abrams appears to have dealt with Rian Johnson's short-changing his story arc in the previous movie by doing his own short-changing; we're told that Palpatine "created Snoke" without clarifying what that means. Was Snoke never real? But he clearly was corporeal, judging by the way he died. We're also shown a scene where what look like several Snoke clones are in vats on Exegol; was Snoke a clone? In revealing Rey's ancestry, Abrams summarily dismisses Johnson's own dismissal of its significance (almost feels like a tit-for-tat). The Rise of Skywalker introduces new concepts that don't quite fit the universe. "Life Force transfer" (I think that's what it's called) is probably the worst idea since midichlorians. Where was this power all this while? Can only Dark-siders use it? How did Rey learn about it? Did Luke teach her? Doesn't this mean that Force-users now have the power to cheat death, something Palpatine told Anakin was only achieved with great difficulty in Revenge of the Sith? Ditto for the "Force absorption" thing Palpatine does to Rey and Ben at the end; why didn't he just do that to Vader and Luke in Return of the Jedi?
Leia's death scene was even weaker than Luke's from The Last Jedi (although I will admit that they made good use of whatever leftover footage they had of Carrie Fisher from the previous two films; it was all edited in well, and I couldn't tell what parts, if any, were CGI. I wonder if they got someone else to voice her dialogue, some of which was very scene-specific). Chewie's fake death and C3PO's fake memory wipe (in effect, *his* fake death scene) were audience teases that were more irritating than emotional. Lando really had nothing to do. Overall, of all the Original Triology characters, Han seems to be the only one to have a memorable, emotional end. Also, why did Leia appear at the Lars homestead? She had no connection to it in real life. And how was it maintained in such pristine condition? The old lady at the end says that no one had been there for years.
Many had speculated that there would be a romantic relationship between Poe and Finn; but Poe was revealed to be straight (at least I think that's what they were trying to suggest). Finn's sexuality is still open to speculation, however. Also, what was with that last scene between Lando and Jannah? Was it being suggested that Lando was her father, or was he trying to put the moves on someone young enough to be his daughter?
Since when is Leia so well-versed in the Force that she can train an apprentice?
If Palpatine wants Rey alive so that he can essentially "possess" her (another questionable new concept), why does he keep goading Klyo Ren to kill her?
{Spoiler} Oh, also, I was wondering if, as Palpatine was absorbing Rey and Ben's Force essences, he would revert back to his original human form (as opposed to the shriveled-up prune face he got after his duel with Mace Windu). Sadly, he didn't. Also, it's strange that he's never referred to by his Sith name, Sidious, in this movie. It's always Palpatine. I also have no idea if my reaction to key plot points (the revelation of Rey's parentage and especially Rey dying, then getting resurrected, then Ben dying), would have been any different if it had not all been spoiled for me beforehand. I doubt it though.
{Spoiler} Oh, also, I was wondering if, as Palpatine was absorbing Rey and Ben's Force essences, he would revert back to his original human form (as opposed to the shriveled-up prune face he got after his duel with Mace Windu). Sadly, he didn't. Also, it's strange that he's never referred to by his Sith name, Sidious, in this movie. It's always Palpatine. I also have no idea if my reaction to key plot points (the revelation of Rey's parentage and especially Rey dying, then getting resurrected, then Ben dying), would have been any different if it had not all been spoiled for me beforehand. I doubt it though.
I don’t think Rian Johnson’s trilogy has been cancelled.
The first thing I have to regretfully report is that the spoilers of unclear veracity that I was exposed to (see my post above) were all accurate. The first confirmation of this came about a third into the movie, and I then realized that I knew how the movie would end, as well as that it would be very bad since the spoilers pointed to an awful storyline. Needless to say, I was quite miffed about both those things (the spoilers were posted on the Twitter account of someone whom I have been following for non-Star Wars related content and whom I have always respected; I have no idea why he would summarize the plot of this movie the day before it was released without any warnings whatsoever. It almost seems like a malicious act directed at his subscribers, and he has not bothered to explain, retract or apologize. Ostensibly he was trying to make a point about how bad the movie was, but he could have done that without spoiling it or at least provided a spoiler warning of some kind. I'm conflicted at this point as to whether I will continue to follow him, there was really no excuse for this).
Secondly, it's clear J J Abrams was trying to salvage what he could from the train-wreck that was The Last Jedi; but there's only so much he could do. It wasn't a very successful effort.
Some have opined that this was the weakest entry of the Disney Trilogy. I actually think both The Last Jedi and The Force Awakens, in that order, were worse, but that's honestly not saying much.
{Spoiler} Secondly, unless I missed something, the movie doesn't explain how Palpatine survived the original trilogy, or whether he actually died and was resurrected.
Abrams appears to have dealt with Rian Johnson's short-changing his story arc in the previous movie by doing his own short-changing; we're told that Palpatine "created Snoke" without clarifying what that means. Was Snoke never real? But he clearly was corporeal, judging by the way he died. We're also shown a scene where what look like several Snoke clones are in vats on Exegol; was Snoke a clone? (…)
If Palpatine wants Rey alive so that he can essentially "possess" her (another questionable new concept),
{Spoiler} My understanding is that Palpatine's method for coming back to life is the same as it was in the old Legends continuity (the Dark Empire comics and all that jazz): he managed to project his soul out of his body just before/as it it died, and then had to possess new bodies. Unfortunately, due to how incredibly corrupted by the Dark Side said soul is, any body he steals decays very quickly, so he has to keep growing new ones. The implication, I think, is that Snoke was one of the bodies Palpatine grew for himself, which was already starting to decay beyond repair from the possession, hence his letting Kylo Ren kill it. And since this whole "cloning custom bodies" thing just isn't working out he cooks up the "get the body of a member of my own bloodline, who is to boot strong with the Force" scheme as a Plan B. My understanding is that Palpatine's method for coming back to life is the same as it was in the old Legends continuity (the Dark Empire comics and all that jazz): he managed to project his soul out of his body just before/as it it died, and then had to possess new bodies. Unfortunately, due to how incredibly corrupted by the Dark Side said soul is, any body he steals decays very quickly, so he has to keep growing new ones. The implication, I think, is that Snoke was one of the bodies Palpatine grew for himself, which was already starting to decay beyond repair from the possession, hence his letting Kylo Ren kill it. And since this whole "cloning custom bodies" thing just isn't working out he cooks up the "get the body of a member of my own bloodline, who is to boot strong with the Force" scheme as a Plan B.
Post by Baar Baar Jinx on Dec 21, 2019 17:33:35 GMT
Thanks for the explanation. None of that was revealed in the movie, however, and should have been. Call me old-fashioned, but I think that at least as far as the "core" movies (the numbered "Episodes") go, storylines should be self-contained and audiences should be able to follow events without being familiar with ancillary material (comics, books, TV shows, video games, etc.). That was also a complaint I had with the reveal of the main villain in Solo.
On the positive side, the jokes worked for the most part with some genuinely funny moments, and I think they handled C3PO (who's the main comic relief) well. The new cone-headed droid was a sympathetic and likeable character. And the symbolism of the final scene did raise goosebumps.