Why do italians prefer Rockerduck over Glomgold?

[deb]

Feb 28, 2019 14:36:13 GMT @ringoduckfan said:

Glomgold appeared in two stories by Barks, The Money Champ.

Three:
"The Second Richest Duck"
"The Money Champ"
"So Far and No Safari"

I would imagine that some of Glomgold's later popularity also has a bit to do with his being used so extensively in DuckTales in 1987, and Rockerduck not being in it.  Rockerduck first appeared in a DuckTales story (to my knowledge) in BOOM's comic, "Rightful Owners" (but the less said about that mess, the better).

[pollux]

As far as I know, Rockerduck was obscure for American readers for a long time. After Barks showed him in 1961, he appeared only in a few American stories following shortly. Then, Italian creaters somehow fell in love with him for reasons unknown and made him a prime antagonist in their Duck universe.

[Hector]

Maybe because Rockerduck is an anti hero whereas Glomgold is a villain.

[drakeborough]

Why do italians prefer Rockerduck over Glomgold?

In addition to the reasons that have already been said, there is also the fact that Rockerduck and Glomgold being different characters seems obvious to us, but for Italians it wasn't necessarily that way in the past. It's true that the two characters were featured together in Zio Paperone e il bisbilione (text by Osvaldo Pavese, art by Giuseppe Perego, first publication in Topolino #608, 23 July 1967), however that was a one-time thing that didn't prevent the confusion among many people, including scholars.

Maybe it's because they both share the role of Scrooge's rival in business. Maybe it's because they are both billionaires who often challenge Scrooge for the title of world's richest duck. Maybe it's because Rockerduck eating his hat after losing in Italian stories is similar to Glomgold eating Scrooge's hat after losing in "The Money Champ". Maybe it's because in Italian stories Scrooge and Rockerduck often have a brawl in the middle of the street, which is similar to what happens to Scrooge and Glomgold in "The Money Champ". Maybe it's because in the early translations of Barks' three stories with the character, Glomgold had three different names (Polidoro Orifiamma, Cuordipietra Famedoro and Rupedor, with the second one also being used in the aforementioned "Zio Paperone e il bisbilione", as well as in modern stories), and thus Rockerduck could be thought as yet another Italian name for the same character, especially as the original American version of "Boat Buster" wasn't easily available half a century ago in Italy. Maybe it's because Rockerduck changed his appearance over the years, which could lead someone to think of Glomgold as one of Rockerduck's early designs. Maybe it's because other factors further increased the confusion: for example, in the 1958 story Paperino e il milione volante, artist Luciano Capitanio used a design nearly identical to Glomgold for a character called Pip McPiper that writer Guido Martna may or may not have meant to be Glomgold (Inducks doesn't list him as FG). And in the 1967 story Paperino e i candidati al CIAO, artist Giovan Battista Carpi gave Glomgold's design to a character called MacGold that writer Guido Martna may or may not have meant to be Glomgold (Inducks lists him as FG this time). Maybe it's because when the 1967 Gregory/Strobl story The Goat With the Long Silky Hair was translated in Italy in 1968, the character that Inducks calls "Gotrocks from DD 115" was named Cuordipietra Famedoro even though he doesn't resemble much FG beside the beard (Gotrocks' nephew is called Stoneheart whose literal translation would be "Cuordipietra" but I don't know if this influenced the choice of the translator nor do I know how was Stoneheart called in Italy). Another factor of confusion is that in the 1971 story Zio Paperone e la pepita astrale, artist Giuseppe Perego gave Glomgold's design to a character once again called MacGold that writer Osvaldo Pavese may or may not have meant to be Glomgold (Inducks lists him as FG, and this is regarded as the last pre-1992 I-coded story with him).

Whatever the reason, Mario Gentilini (editor-in-chief of the Italian Disney comics from 1945 to 1980) wrote a 7-page introduction to the 1968 Barks-themed special hardbook Vita e Dollari di Paperon De' Paperoni which had a big impact because, as Inducks recalls, "For the first time the name of Carl Barks is mentroned in an official publication as the creator of Uncle Scrooge". I don't have Gentilini's introduction at hand, but from various sources I get that Rockerduck and Glomgold are regarded as being the same character.

The same mistake is made in the 1974 essay "Introduzione a Paperino - La fenomenologia sociale nei fumetti di Carl Barks" by Piero Marovelli, Elvio Paolini and Giulio Saccomano, which is one of the earliest, if not the very first, essay about Barks. Here is an extract from the book:

PAPERONE E ROCKERDUCK: LA REINCARNA.ZIONE DI EBENEZER SCROOGE

Un leggendario proprietario di miniere del Sud Africa che ha la sua residenza nella valle del fiume Limpopo ed è campione di quattrini di Orolia, Petrolia e Gommonia si presenta alla metà degli anni Cinquanta come l'antagonista per eccellenza del vecchio papero contestandogli il titolo di campione mondiale dei miliardari. La totale mancanza di scrupoli, la smania di primeggiare su tutti, il bieco disprezzo per il prossimo e l'abbigliamento, ne fanno una sorta di reinvenzione dello Scrooge prima maniera. Un confronto tra il Paperone delle prime storie e l'antagonista mostra chiaramente questa quasi totale identità. Quando il personaggio appare per la prima volta si scopre che il riccastro di Paperopoli e il bieco colonialista del Sud Africa hanno un deposito di uguali dimensioni e di identiche caratteristiche perfino nei dettagli come la cancellata di ingresso e i mezzi di difesa. Barks accenna a una differenza di carattere politico-economico nell'unico particolare che distingue i due depositi: su quello di Paperone campeggia il simbolo del dollaro e su quello del ricco sfruttatore di miniere africane troneggia la lira sterlina, che si ritrova poi, alla maniera paperoniana, sul praticello antistante il deposito, sulla scrivania e persino sulle tendine. Paperino dirà: 'Non c'è dubbio: ha copiato un sacco di tue idee'.

Oltre ad essere sospettoso come Paperone, il nuovo personaggio è un grandissimo taccagno: 'Bene, bene, vieni avanti Paperon de' Paperoni. Ho letto molte notizie su di te sui giornali che raccatto ai giardini pubblici'. 'Che razza di taccagno! - esclama Paperone digrignando i denti - non compra nemmeno i giornali! Avete mai sentito una cosa simile?'
Il nuovo avaraccio è naturalmente un papero, in italiano Polidoro Orifiamma all'esordio, poi Cuor-di-Pietra Famedoro, Cuor-di-Fame Pietradoro, Rupedor e infine, nell'ultima storia in ordine cronologico, Rockerduck, mentre il nome appiopatogli fin dalla nascita da Carl Barks è Flintheart Glomgold. Ufficialmente possiamo aggiungere che per Paperone è sempre e soltanto 'Pietrino'.
Per quanto riguarda il vestiario la caratterizzazione che è stata ricalcata dai disegnatori che hanno continuato a trattare le vicende dei paperi, è quella di 'ZP e la superbenzina'. Qui Rockerduck appare in bombetta e cravatta, occhiali a stanghetta e la giacca a falde con bottoni posteriori; ha perduto per strada le ghette delle prime due storie e il bastone storto, il berretto scozzese preso in prestito dal primo racconto di Paperone e le lenti a pince-nez. L'accentuazione dei tratti negativi del primo Paperone in Rockerduck pone il problema dell'antagonismo di due poteri pressoché identici nella forza.

Il discorso che Barks appena abbozza nella disputa monetaria, allude al conflitto tra le aree del dollaro e della sterlina, all'ordine del giorno negli anni Cinquanta. Il cartoonist vede nel capitalismo coloniale inglese un volto del potere decisamente più sadico; la seconda e la terza storia ('ZP e il campionato di quattrini' - 'Zp... tutto per la concessione') pur non sottolineando lo scontro dollaro-sterlina, mantengono in piedi la figura del colonialista anglosassone, privo di qualsiasi scrupolo, truffatore senza dignità né ritegno e capace persino di attentare alla vita dei concorrenti pur di trionfare. Rockerduck, in 'ZP... tutto per la concessione', dopo aver creduto di aver fatto a pezzi con le bombe l'intero clan dei paperi, si allontana commentando: 'Gli sciacalli saranno contenti!'.
Le comuni origini scozzesi di Paperone e Rockerduck alludono all'unica matrice fondamentale del capitalismo mondiale, in cui la Scozia è l'emblema della taccagneria predatoria.
Il fatto che Rockerduck compaia in sole quattro storie conferma che il tentativo di Barks di far rivivere l'Ebenezer Scrooge che fu il primo Paperone, in una sorta di specchio della verità di fronte al nuovo Scrooge, non ha condotto alla creazione nel miliardario di Orolia di un personaggio nuovo, ma solo alla rifrazione di uno stereotipo che resta sostanzialmente identico all'originale. Nell'ultima sua storia Rockerduck appare ringiovanito, è un insipido elegantone, un businessman di pretta marca inglese.
La sostanziale parità dei loro duelli monetari mostra che i due avversari finiscono con l'essere una sola anima nella smania di accumulazione. In sostanza il confronto Paperone-Rockerduck si esaurisce in una sostanziale spartizione mondiale delle ricchezze. I due grandi sono un unico volto del potere.

It's so long that I don't feel like translating it, but you are free to ask about a specific line if the Google Translate version is not clear enough. Anyway, it basically says that Rockerduck has been used by Barks in four stories, that his original American name is Flintheart Glomgold, and that he was translated with different Italian names before becoming Rockerduck, and that later authors used this "fourth appearance" as a reference. It further says that in his fourth appearance he looks younger, and got a redesign plus different clothes and glasses. The authors further increase the confusion about FG's Italian names by also pointlessly mentioning Cuordifame Pietradoro, which is just the translation of one of the fake names used by FG in "The Money Champ", and "Pietrino" which is a translation of "Flinthy" used in the same story. Anyway, the writers obviously were more interested in a sociological/political analysis of Barks' work (often leading to questionable theories) rather than a philological research about his stories. A point of interest is that the quote above mentions "the common Scottish origins of Scrooge and Rockerduck", meaning "Scrooge and Glomgold". DuckTales of course made Glomgold Scottish, but this book predates the series by 13 years. The three writers make it clear that they drew this conclusion from the "Scottish hat".

Even as late as April 1988, Zio Paperone #6, which contains "The Second-Richest Duck", published the following article written by comics scholar Piero Zanotto:

In the story itself FG is called Cuordipietra Famedoro, which is his definitive Italian name (though in some DuckTales episodes his first name was given as "Cuore di Pietra"). In the article, however, he is referred to as "a guy, Scottish like Scrooge [...], called (in the original) Flintheart Glomgold, which sounds like "Cuore di Pietra". Here he was later re-named Rockerduck, with a more pertinent phonetic assonance". Keep in mind that Zio Paperone was a title for collectors that was focused of reprinting all Barks in the first 69 issues before focusing on other authors like Don Rosa. It wasn't a title for casual readers.



Also worth of mention is this 1987 article on the newspaper La Stampa, in which Guido Martina is credited not only for inventing Paperinik/the Duck Avenger, but also for inventing Rockerduck. I'll translate the relevant Martina quote:


To say the truth, I didn't even notice that I had invented Rockerduck: in a story, I wanted to recuperate a backgroud character which had appeared sometime earlier, unnamed, in an adventure. I asked the director who was the author so that I could use it and the director, Mario Gentilini, said that I was the author. So I recuperated him and I gave him greater importance as antagonist of Scrooge McDuck.


Now, Martina certainly contributed to the popularity of Rockerduck: he used him more than any other author (111 stories according to Inducks*), he came up with the eating-his-hat running gag, and he created his secretary Lusky. But he definitely didn't create Rockerduck, which is a Barksian character. In fact, the earliest Martina story with Rockerduck is Zio Paperone e il domestico elettrodomestico (art by Giuseppe Perego, first publication in Topolino #627, 3 Dicember 1967), which is only the 39th story with the character. Even if we list the stories by the order in which they first appeared in Italy, "Zio Paperone e il domestico elettrodomestico" only becomes the 37th story with Rockerduck.

I can't say if it really was Gentilini who made this mistake and convinced Martina that he was the creator of Rockerduck or if 81-year old Martina was misremembering things due to his old age. I guess it's also possible that Martina was trolling the interviewer, which would make sense considering other questionable things from that article, like the circumstances of the production of the first post-war Italian stories, the mention of "Mickey's Inferno" as his first story, the exaggeration of the consideration he had among other authors, the details of the creation of the Duck Avenger, and even Martina's own age (he is said to be 71). If, as he is rumored, he had a surly attitude and didn't care for interviews, and was bitter over the fact that in his later years his stories were bought but most of the time were not published, I could see why he would be tempted to be cavalier with the truth and re-write the past history according to his whims, or simply say the first thing that came to his mind without thinking too hard. I guess it fits with the cynicism, and lack of consistency, which emerges from his stories. Plus, it was a time when authors were still uncredited and, without the Internet, very few people could do a fact checking about Disney comics, not to mention a newspaper article was usually forgotten after a few days. I'll add that in the article Rockerduck is misspelled as "Rocherduk", and it's not just a typo because it's written that way every time. I think that some old Italian edition used the variant "Rocherduck", but I don't think he was ever called "Rocherduk".

In this 1991 article, also from La Stampa, there is the news of Martina's death, together with a posthumous interview taken at the hospital a few days before. It is said that both Rockerduck and the Duck Avenger were created by him, and there is a quote from him about Scrooge's rival:


Honestly, I almost didn't realize I had invented Rockerduck: I had put him as a background character in a story and then I recuperated him many times until he became a real co-star.


These words are almost identical to the interview from four years before. Another thing in common between these articles is that they both de-aged him by ten years: it is said he had died at the age of 75, while in fact he was 85. On the other hand, the story of the creation of the Duck Avenger is more in line with the usually told version, albeit with a greater emphasis on himself and no mention of Elisa Penna. Oh, and Rockerduck is still misspelled, though this time as "Rockerduk".

This 1994 article from, you guess it, La Stampa, also talks about Martina, and once again mentions "the fearless Duck Avenger and Rockerduck" among the characters he had created. This time, Rockerduck is spelled correctly.


* I wonder where the numbers from this message come from:

Feb 28, 2019 11:25:21 GMT xanderares said:

Scarpa used Rockerduck 57 times
Guido Martina 152 times
The Barosso brothers 12-13 times
Rodolfo Cimino 17 times
Gian Giacomo Dalmasso 34 times

According to this Inducks page, these are the figures for the name you reported:

Scarpa: 47
Martina: 111
Barosso brothers: 12 (Giampaolo) and 13 (Abramo)
Cimino: 17
Dalmasso: 35

Did you use a different source, or did Inducks change the attribution of some stories? It wouldn't be the first time. Anyway, here is the current Inducks list of the ten authors who used Rockerduck most, regardless of whether they were writers-only, artists-only, inkers-only, or if they did more than one of these jobs:

Guido Martina: 111 (1967-74, 1976-84, 1990)
Giorgio Pezzin: 106 (1974-96, 1999-00, 2002-03, 2012)
Giorgio Cavazzano: 100 (1964-66, 1969-79, 1981-86, 1988-89, 1994-96, 2000-07, 2009-12)
Bruno Concina: 64 (1979-87, 1989-01, 2003-08)
Marco Bosco: 56 (2000, 2003-19)
Francesc Bargadà Studio: 55 (1980-87, 1994-95)
Luciano Gatto: 53 (1966, 1968, 1970-72, 1974-80, 1982, 1985, 1987-90, 1995-96, 1999-00, 2002-06, 2008-13, 2015, 2017)
Massimo De Vita: 51 (1966-67, 1969-82, 1984, 1986-89, 1996)
Alessandro Sisti: 48 (1984-85, 1987, 1989, 1991, 1993-97, 1999-00, 2008-10, 2012, 2014-17)
Romano Scarpa: 47 (1964-66, 1968-72, 1974-77, 1979-80, 1982-83, 1986-89)

Of course, "Francesc Bargadà Studio" is not a single author, but it can't be helped. Given that Italy has produced almost five times the stories produced by all other countries combined, it's not surprising that, Francesc Bargadà Studio notwithstanding, all individual names above are Italians. In fact, the first individual non-Italian entry of the list is Tony Strobl, which is at the 16th place with 37 stories.

Feb 27, 2019 22:27:50 GMT Ramapith said:

But Glomgold's return didn't actually start with Rosa. Both Egmont and the Dutch were using him extensively in the 1970s and 80s in a deliberate attempt to recapture the Barks style, spearheaded by Lars Bergström and Stefan Printz-Påhlson at Egmont.

Indeed, Rosa's debut story "The Son of the Sun" is, according to Inducks, the 35th appearance of the character (the list considers Pip McPiper as a separate character and the two MacGold stories as Glomgold stories). Though as Rosa recalled here, "at the time I naively believed [The Son of the Sun] to be the fourth time in world history FG had been used". Which is understandable, as most post-Barks/pre-Rosa stories with FG were published in the USA after "The Son of the Sun" or not published at all.


EDIT: What's the deal with this silly censorship filter? I had copied and pasted a title containing the Italian word for "reincarnation", but it was changed into "reincarWAKone" just because it contained the letters N-A-Z-I.  I am changing it into REINCARNA.ZIONE, but I think it would be better if such a filter were removed or at least improved.

[Fethryfan]

Rockerduck is a very flexible character, he can be used both as a pathetic villain, a more competent criminal and as a comic relief. On the other hand, Glomgold is just evil

[Spectrus]

Great research drakeborough!

Two things I may add:

Oct 29, 2019 16:54:26 GMT drakeborough said:

Of course, "Francesc Bargadà Studio" is not a single author, but it can't be helped. Given that Italy has produced almost five times the stories produced by all other countries combined, it's not surprising that, Francesc Bargadà Studio notwithstanding, all individual names above are Italians.

The studio did mostly work for Mondadori, if I'm not mistaken, so essentially it's Italian stories too (written by Italian writers - although there IS an interesting exception in the form of Jerry Siegel, who used Rockerduck more than once, if I recall correctly).

Other thing is that a story by Giorgio Pezzin used a character that looked virtually exactly like Glomgold in this story: inducks.org/story.php?c=I+TL+1772-C

But it isn't him and he's not even a villain. Quite odd.

[drakeborough]

Nov 6, 2019 12:51:26 GMT Spectrus said:

Great research drakeborough!

Thanks!

Nov 6, 2019 12:51:26 GMT Spectrus said:

Oct 29, 2019 16:54:26 GMT drakeborough said:

Of course, "Francesc Bargadà Studio" is not a single author, but it can't be helped. Given that Italy has produced almost five times the stories produced by all other countries combined, it's not surprising that, Francesc Bargadà Studio notwithstanding, all individual names above are Italians.

The studio did mostly work for Mondadori, if I'm not mistaken, so essentially it's Italian stories too (written by Italian writers - although there IS an interesting exception in the form of Jerry Siegel, who used Rockerduck more than once, if I recall correctly).

I didn't know that. As for Siegel, Inducks credits him with 15 Rockerduck stories from 1973 to 1979, though after what you said I don't know if he only wrote these or if he created more stories which were credited to "Francesc Bargadà Studio" rather than to him.

Nov 6, 2019 12:51:26 GMT Spectrus said:

Other thing is that a story by Giorgio Pezzin used a character that looked virtually exactly like Glomgold in this story: inducks.org/story.php?c=I+TL+1772-C

But it isn't him and he's not even a villain. Quite odd.

Interesting. I don't have this story: which role does the character have? Does he have some element that may have led the artist to mistake him as FG, rather than just recycling a character design? Anyway, we don't even know who drew this story, as the comic itself and Inducks only credit the Comicup Studio rather than an individual.


My previous message was mostly about the confusion between Rockerduck and Glomgold. About that: in Geo's 2010 review of the story "Around the World in 80 Bucks", which featured Rockerduck had just been printed in the USA when he wrote it (it originally appeared in Italy in 1986 under the title Zio Paperone in vacanza con 80 dollari and should not be confused with other stories that have similar titles), he started by saying this:

Just a dang ol' amazon review I wrote, mainly to counter the crazy dude who raved about the story and gave it five stars. Seriously, what's WITH that dude? Even if you like it (somehow), how can you just not NOTICE the obvious, massive flaws? Dude's also apparently under the impression that Glomgold is the antagonist here, which maybe indicates something.


Of course, a mistake made by a fan who writes an Amazon review is not as notable as a mistake made by a professional in an official publication, but it's interesting to notice that even as recently as 2010 someone would confuse these two characters.

Incidentally, the credited authors are not individual authors, as it seems to happen in every story I check for this message: the writing is by "Staff di IF", and the art is by, what a coincidence, ... "Francesc Bargadà Studio". The circle closes.

[Spectrus]

Nov 6, 2019 16:44:23 GMT drakeborough said:

Nov 6, 2019 12:51:26 GMT Spectrus said:

Great research drakeborough!

Thanks!

Nov 6, 2019 12:51:26 GMT Spectrus said:

The studio did mostly work for Mondadori, if I'm not mistaken, so essentially it's Italian stories too (written by Italian writers - although there IS an interesting exception in the form of Jerry Siegel, who used Rockerduck more than once, if I recall correctly).

I didn't know that. As for Siegel, Inducks credits him with 15 Rockerduck stories from 1973 to 1979, though after what you said I don't know if he only wrote these or if he created more stories which were credited to "Francesc Bargadà Studio" rather than to him.

Nov 6, 2019 12:51:26 GMT Spectrus said:

Other thing is that a story by Giorgio Pezzin used a character that looked virtually exactly like Glomgold in this story: inducks.org/story.php?c=I+TL+1772-C

But it isn't him and he's not even a villain. Quite odd.

Interesting. I don't have this story: which role does the character have? Does he have some element that may have led the artist to mistake him as FG, rather than just recycling a character design? Anyway, we don't even know who drew this story, as the comic itself and Inducks only credit the Comicup Studio rather than an individual.

I meant exceptions among the mostly Italian writers that supplied plots that were then drawn by the Bargada studios. Sorry for my bad phrasing. It only happens on this forum! I don't think Siegel was associated with any Disney studios.

As for the FG-lookalike, he introduces himself as "McDunhill of McD Air - the biggest flying company after yours, Mr. McDuck". I have a feeling that the art was done by Maximino - can't prove it though.

Interestingly, his proposal in the end leads to the inevitable catastrophe, but there's no sign that he did so by ill will, nor is he ever seen again after the occasion. Strange, and unusual for Giorgio Pezzin, who normally didn't slip like this.