In Barks' original story, Whitewater was a distant cousin of Donald's. Don Rosa contradicted this in his Duck family tree. If Whitewater were Douglas' nephew, he *would* be a distant cousin. And, of course, the uncle/nephew relation (as a mirror image to Scrooge and Donald) works well in the story you mentioned.
About Whitewater: yes, in his two appearances by Lars Jensen he has a different relationship to Donald compared to Rosa's family tree. This is what Jensen wrote in the DCML back in 2006, answering Gilles Maurice's question about Whitewater:
In my first Douglas story, I contrasted Scrooge with Douglas, trying to show readers the difference between these two characters (which I felt was a good way of highlighting each character's individual personality traits). When I began work on "Smarter than the Toughies", I wanted to contrast the Scrooge-Donald pairing with another pairing. Using Douglas as the "Scrooge part" of this alternative pairing was obvious. But who would play the "Donald part"?
I wanted someone who was sort-of similar to Donald, just like Douglas is sort-of similar to Scrooge. But at the same time, the character couldn't be a carbon copy of Donald -- like Douglas, this new character (Character X) would have to differ from his Duckburg counterpart in a way that let me show readers why the Scrooge-Donald pairing worked well for Scrooge and Donald, while the Douglas-Character X pairing didn't work as well for Douglas and Character X. In order to highlight the similarities between the two pairings, I wanted Character X to be Douglas' nephew, like Donald is Scrooge's nephew. Since Stefan Printz-Påhlson, the creator of Douglas, in unpublished notes has given Douglas the last name "McDuck", I wanted Character X to feel like a McDuck: a tough, uncompromising never-give-up person (who isn't a total jerk like, say, Flintheart Glomgold). And Character X would also have to look like a McDuck unlike, say, Fethry or Moby Duck -- he would need to look like he could have been designed by Carl Barks.
And then I realized there was already an existing character who fit the part beautifully: Whitewater! I got hold of Carl Barks' "Log Jockey" story in its original English, I read it, and (to me, anyway) it was clear that Barks intended Whitewater to be a distant relative of Donald's. If I made Whitewater into Douglas' nephew, he would be Donald's uncle's cousin's nephew, so that certainly made him a distant relative. Whitewater's personality was perfect for the role, his design was perfect, he was sufficiently obscure that I felt nobody would mind if I made him into Douglas' nephew... Everything about him just felt right!
Right until I realized the problem: Don Rosa's Duck family tree. I looked up the tree and, yeah, it didn't fit *at all* with my plans for Whitewater. I tried to think of ways I could stick to Don's family tree, while still making my story work, but it simply felt wrong: why would Douglas hang out with somebody he was only *very* peripherically related to? And my uncle-nephew parallel between Scrooge-Donald and Douglas-Whitewater had certainly evaporated. I considered dropping Whitewater and come up with a new character instead, but that also felt wrong: Whitewater was a perfectly good character, this was a part he was perfect for -- not using him would be a colossal waste of an opportunity!
In the end, I looked at the hard facts: Whitewater had been used *once*, way back in 1962. Since then, *nobody* had used him in a story -- not Scarpa, not Strobl, not Vicar, not Jippes, not Canini... *Nobody*! And there were no signs that anybody but me was going to use him anytime in the future. If I didn't use Whitewater, the character would most likely stay forgotten for all eternity. The *only* place Whitewater had appeared after 1962 was in Don Rosa's Duck family tree. A tree that Don had repeatedly said was *his private thoughts* about how the Ducks were related and which other Disney creators should *not* feel obligated to follow. So I swallowed hard and made my decision: Whitewater would be used in my story as Douglas' nephew. Even though it went against Don's Duck family tree.
I still feel bad about having contradicted that tree (and yours, for that matter). But it had to be done for the good of the story and for the good of the character. Now I hope Whitewater has gotten another chance to shine -- and perhaps, due to "Smarter than the Toughies", another writer will decide to use Whitewater again. If not, then *I'll* try to.
I would have preferred to see Whitewater as having the same relationship with Donald than in Don's family tree, but I guess him appearing with a different relationship is better than nothing. I saw one of his two Whitewater stories in an Italian fan translation, and he's called Abner "Whitewater", but I guess the translation added Abner and he's just called Whitewater in the original. Can anybody confirm this?
Last Edit: Jan 9, 2017 17:46:55 GMT by drakeborough
About Whitewater: yes, in his two appearances by Lars Jensen he has a different relationship to Donald compared to Rosa's family tree. This is what Jensen wrote in the DCML back in 2006, answering Gilles Maurice's question about Whitewater:
Well, that clears that up: this violation of the Rosa tree was not an oversight. Still, the only way Douglas McDuck and Whitewater Duck could be so closely related is a second, non-Hortense related connection between the Ducks and McDucks, or Whitewater comes from yet another family named Duck (unrelated to Humperdink/Elvira Duck). Has it ever been explained how exactly Scrooge and Douglas are related?
Has it ever been explained how exactly Scrooge and Douglas are related?
He is a cousin of Scrooge according to Inducks, which means Jensen's version of Whitewater is Donald's second cousin. To make a comparison, Donald and Gus are second cousins in Don's family tree.
Last Edit: Jan 9, 2017 17:50:32 GMT by drakeborough
Has it ever been explained how exactly Scrooge and Douglas are related?
He is a cousin of Scrooge according to Inducks, which means Jensen's version of Whitewater is Donald's second cousin. To make a comparison, Donald and Gus are second cousins in Don's family tree.
To remain Rosa-compliant, Douglas would have to be a second cousin to Scrooge (son of a son of one of Fergus' father's brothers or sisters).
He is a cousin of Scrooge according to Inducks, which means Jensen's version of Whitewater is Donald's second cousin. To make a comparison, Donald and Gus are second cousins in Don's family tree.
To remain Rosa-compliant, Douglas would have to be a second cousin to Scrooge (son of a son of one of Fergus' father's brothers or sisters).
Why? I don't care for a cousin of Scrooge, but if I were to put Douglas McDuck in a family tree I would have him be the son of one of Fergus' brothers. I don't see the difficulty with this option (except for the fact that either a new brother of Fergus has to be made up or one between Angus and Jake would have to be portrayed as a father).
Last Edit: Jan 9, 2017 18:30:19 GMT by drakeborough
To remain Rosa-compliant, Douglas would have to be a second cousin to Scrooge (son of a son of one of Fergus' father's brothers or sisters).
Why? I don't care for a cousin of Scrooge, but if I were to put Douglas McDuck in a family tree I would have him be the son of one of Fergus' brothers. I don't see the difficulty with this option (except for the fact that either a new brother of Fergus has to be made up or one between Angus and Jake would have to be portrayed as a father).
This is why, I guess. Although we discussed elsewhere the possibility of Gideon being Angus' son, so I suppose the point is moot. Anyway, I have no great love for Douglas McDuck either, so I'm not going to worry too much about it.
Coming back to this "Cousin Douglas McDuck" character, in one story he was described as Whitewater Duck's uncle! This is in complete violation of Rosa's family tree (which you would assume they would want to follow in 2004). Whitewater Duck is the son of Eider and has no connection to the McDucks, who are only related to the Ducks through the Hortense-Quackmore union. Also, wouldn't an uncle of Whitewater also be an uncle of Donald (unless the relation is through the Lulubelle Loon side of the family)?
Not reallly. Possibly Douglas married Lulubelle Loon's sister, and became Whitewater's uncle by marriage, but she's already dead.
Why? I don't care for a cousin of Scrooge, but if I were to put Douglas McDuck in a family tree I would have him be the son of one of Fergus' brothers. I don't see the difficulty with this option (except for the fact that either a new brother of Fergus has to be made up or one between Angus and Jake would have to be portrayed as a father).
This is why, I guess. Although we discussed elsewhere the possibility of Gideon being Angus' son, so I suppose the point is moot. Anyway, I have no great love for Douglas McDuck either, so I'm not going to worry too much about it.
I get it. It's a moot point indeed, since I wouldn't include Douglas in my family tree, which means I wouldn't need to invent another brother for Fergus or make one between Angus and Jake a father.
Why? I don't care for a cousin of Scrooge, but if I were to put Douglas McDuck in a family tree I would have him be the son of one of Fergus' brothers. I don't see the difficulty with this option (except for the fact that either a new brother of Fergus has to be made up or one between Angus and Jake would have to be portrayed as a father).
This is why, I guess. Although we discussed elsewhere the possibility of Gideon being Angus' son, so I suppose the point is moot. Anyway, I have no great love for Douglas McDuck either, so I'm not going to worry too much about it.
Besides, don't we always have the difficulty when proposing male descendants on the McDuck side that they would prevent Scrooge from being "the last of the clan McDuck"?
I normally just take that line not so literally. The last heir of the clan McDuck, or the last to hold the clan in not just name but spirit, dunno. Obviously not how Rosa intended it to be read, of course.
Post by Baar Baar Jinx on Jan 10, 2017 1:10:05 GMT
INDUCKS lists a more recent story featuring Whitewater, and apparently also the return of Donna Duck. Does this story address Whitewater's relationship to Donald in any way? Also, who exactly does it say Donna Duck is? It looks like a fun story regardless, hope IDW prints it soon.
Besides, don't we always have the difficulty when proposing male descendants on the McDuck side that they would prevent Scrooge from being "the last of the clan McDuck"?
Indeed, to me an important part of Scrooge's mythos is that he's the last of the clan McDuck: that is, the last male descendent. The clan McDuck had a former glory but was impoverished by the time Scrooge was born, and he was the family's last chance to shine. As Fergus put it, "Maybe he'll make the name McDuck respectable again! He's our clan's last hope!" I regard this as a key part of Scrooge's epic persona, so any attempt to gave us other living male McDucks doesn't interest me.
I don't read Superman comics, but I heard they had the same problem: Superman was supposed to be the last survivor of Krypton, but then they kept adding more and more survivors until it got ridiculous, and so they had to retcon things back.
INDUCKS lists a more recent story featuring Whitewater, and apparently also the return of Donna Duck. Does this story address Whitewater's relationship to Donald in any way? Also, who exactly does it say Donna Duck is? It looks like a fun story regardless, hope IDW prints it soon.
Yes, as I said yesterday, Jensen did two Whitewater stories, and the one you linked is the second: this is the only one I read since Paperpedia did a fan-made Italian translation of it. In this translation, Donald first says "What! Cousin Whitewater?!" He then introduces him to Daisy as "cousin Abner “Whitewater”, lumberjack and... distant relative!" Daisy says "Nice to meet you, Abner!" However, I suspect that Jensen just called him Whitewater and "Abner" was added by the translator. Can anyone confirm or deny this?
Donna is introduced as Whitewater's new Mexican girlfirend, and she also refers to Donald having a thing for her years ago. Donald dismisses it as being a long time ago, and adds he remembers she had a boyfriend called Gonzales; she says that guys don't last more than a few years with her. Whitewater is surprised that Donald and Donna know each other, and Daisy is also jelous.
And for some reason I fail to understand, Inducks lists "Donna" and "Donna Duck from 1951" as two different characters.
Last Edit: Jan 10, 2017 13:12:38 GMT by drakeborough
Whitewater's placement on Rosa's tree doesn't really gel with Barks' "Log Jockey" at all - as mentioned, he is clearly stated to be a distant cousin, and not just geographically either (it's said that "[Donald's] been tracing the limbs of the Duck family tree"). And if Donald knows his Uncle Eider, how could he have been unaware of his son previously? (Not to mention Fethry, though I'm aware Rosa included him because he was told to.) Rosa clearly made them first cousins so that he didn't have to create an entirely new branch (from Grandpa Duck's side?) with several new characters just to "arrive" at Whitewater.
INDUCKS lists a more recent story featuring Whitewater, and apparently also the return of Donna Duck. Does this story address Whitewater's relationship to Donald in any way? Also, who exactly does it say Donna Duck is? It looks like a fun story regardless, hope IDW prints it soon.
In this story, Donald once again refers to Whitewater as his distant cousin, and Donna is Whitewater's new girlfriend (also, the story refers to Donna's appearances in Taliaferro's newspaper strips, as Donna briefly mentions her former fiancé, Manuel: coa.inducks.org/story.php?c=YD+51-08-18 ).
Last Edit: Jan 10, 2017 12:31:37 GMT by Scroogerello: (I see drakeborough already answered your question)