Grandma Duck as Scrooge's sister: where does it come from ?

[Scrooge MacDuck]

You probably already know that in German translations of Disney comics and a in a small number of Italian stories (but a small number that includes the illustrious From Egg to Duck), Grandma Duck is depicted as being Scrooge McDuck and Gideon McDuck's sister and Donald's (adoptive) mother, with the "Grandma" part coming instead from her being Huey, Dewey and Louie's grandmother. Thing is, I don't know where it comes from. I mean, I can see why an author would invent such a thing (they do look a lot alike), but who did and when ? The only stories that really include this as a plot point and that I am aware of are, as mentioned previously, From Egg to Duck, and this delightful Scrooge/Gideon story. But I think it must have been included in some earlier effort… Anybody's got a clue ?

[Ramapith]

I can't answer this question, but it's notable that the early Taliaferro strips—like the German comics—seem to present Grandma Duck as HDL's grandma, not Donald's. She explicitly refers to herself as "your grandma" when addressing HDL in ZD 43-11-07, while constantly calling Donald "son" (various strips, into the 1950s).

Then there is the DISNEYLAND TV show episode "This Is Your Life, Donald Duck," in which an animated Grandma calls Donald "sonny boy" and speaks of sending him off to school in his childhood days. This TV special, of course, begat a comics quasi-adaptation, and a tradition of stories—especially strong in Italy—where a young Donald grows up on Grandma's farm. It's easy to see how German translators simply drew their own conclusions.

On the other hand, in the English originals at least, Donald never calls Grandma anything but "Grandma," so things are a bit ambiguous.

[Scrooge MacDuck]

Feb 9, 2016 13:18:47 GMT Ramapith said:

I can't answer this question, but it's notable that the early Taliaferro strips—like the German comics—seem to present Grandma Duck as HDL's grandma, not Donald's. She explicitly refers to herself as "your grandma" when addressing HDL in ZD 43-11-07, while constantly calling Donald "son" (various strips, into the 1950s).

Then there is the DISNEYLAND TV show episode "This Is Your Life, Donald Duck," in which an animated Grandma calls Donald "sonny boy" and speaks of sending him off to school in his childhood days. This TV special, of course, begat a comics quasi-adaptation, and a tradition of stories—especially strong in Italy—where a young Donald grows up on Grandma's farm. It's easy to see how German translators simply drew their own conclusions.

On the other hand, in the English originals at least, Donald never calls Grandma anything but "Grandma," so things are a bit ambiguous.

Thanks.

First part of your answer: someone needs to tell Don Rosa about this. In the commentaries of the tenth chapter of the Life and Times, he "apologizes" to the european readers he confused when he established that Grandma wasn't Scrooge's sister, but defended himself by saying that "it was never the case in American comics". Obviously, he's unaware of those informations… Thing is, how to contact him ?

[Ramapith]

I'm in touch with Don regularly. But his familiarity is with Disney comic BOOKS, not comic STRIPS.

And Disney comic BOOKS had it their way from the very first Grandma Duck solo story in VACATION PARADE #1, drawn by Carl Barks, where the title actually reads "Donald's Grandma Duck." So there are plenty of sources—primarily Barks—from which Rosa would have grown up with a natural understanding that Grandma is Donald's Grandma.

Different continuities are different. It's not worth arguing with Don, or anyone, that one is intrinsically superior.

[Scrooge MacDuck]

Yes, I'm not asking him to reconsider his views on those continuities, either; it would just be about sharing a piece of comic information that he is not aware of. It's his right not to count these comics, but as a duck enthusiast he'd be happy to be aware of them, I suppose… Then again, you probably know him better than I do (since you're the only one to know him at all).

[The KKM]

I don't know if he's much of a duck enthusiast, not in the sense of the comic book and that we are here- he's a Barks enthusiast, and likely an old cartoons one too, although that side of him seems to show more rarely. So dunno if this trivia'd interest him much

[drakeborough]

Feb 9, 2016 12:03:44 GMT Scrooge MacDuck said:

You probably already know that in German translations of Disney comics and a in a small number of Italian stories (but a small number that includes the illustrious From Egg to Duck), Grandma Duck is depicted as being Scrooge McDuck and Gideon McDuck's sister and Donald's (adoptive) mother, with the "Grandma" part coming instead from her being Huey, Dewey and Louie's grandmother.

I disagree with the bolded part: in all Italian stories I read, Grandma Duck was never said to be Donald's mother, and this includes the stories in which she (for some reason) is said to have raised him. So, I think even in Italian stories the "Grandma" part comes from the fact the she is Donald's grandmother.

Feb 9, 2016 13:18:47 GMT Ramapith said:

I can't answer this question, but it's notable that the early Taliaferro strips—like the German comics—seem to present Grandma Duck as HDL's grandma, not Donald's. She explicitly refers to herself as "your grandma" when addressing HDL in ZD 43-11-07, while constantly calling Donald "son" (various strips, into the 1950s).

I think this is also questionable. In the Taliaferro strips Donald always calls her "grandma", even when the boys are not around, so I think Taliaferro saw her as Donald's grandmother. HDL also call her "grandma", but it seems the implication is that it is just a shortened version of "great-grandma". The only strange thing is Grandma Duck calling Donald "son", and here I will need the help of someone for which English is the first language. Can "son" be used in a similar way of "sonny"? Can a grandmother refer to her grandson as "son/sonny"?

[Scrooge MacDuck]

Yes, "son" can be used that way. As for the "no Italian stories have her as his mom": well, I did not say it was the standard way, I just said it popped up in a few stories, the most notable being "From Egg to Duck", where she is, for all intents and purposes, Donald's adoptive mom.

[Scroogerello]

Indeed, Grandma Duck was never actually said to be Donald's mother, not even in Taliaferro's newspaper comics and "This is Your Life, Donald Duck" (where Donald refers to her as "Grandma" throughout the episode). In "From Egg to Duck" (or at least its German translation; I haven't read the original Italian version) Grandma is more of an adoptive grandmother to Donald, because "in terms of age [she] could have easily been a grandmother" (again, German version). Later in the story, Scrooge discovers that Donald is his *actual* nephew, making Grandma Donald's aunt.

The fact that she refers to Donald as "son" doesn't necessarily mean that she's Donald's mother. In Taliaferro's Donald Duck strips, both Ludwig and Scrooge have referred to Donald as "son", ( coa.inducks.org/story.php?c=YD+61-11-30 and coa.inducks.org/story.php?c=ZD+51-03-18 ), while both of them are uncles of Donald's.

As for Grandma referring to herself as HDL's grandmother: Scrooge has been referred to as HDL's uncle, too, while he's actually their great-uncle, and Gladstone has been referred to has HDL's cousin (Gladstone Returns).
The newspaper comics were centered around Donald, and the nephews weren't as prominent; most of the strips that featured Grandma Duck focused on the large generation gap between Grandma and Donald (e.g. Grandma gives Donald money that she's been saving, which turns out to be confederate money (!). The strips also revealed that Grandma hasn't missed a train in "60 years" ( coa.inducks.org/story.php?c=ZD+51-02-25&search=train%20%20GD ).
Also, (though it was only mentioned once in the newspaper strips) HDL were the sons of Donald's cousin Della. With this in mind, if Grandma were Donald's mother, she wouldn't be HDL's grandma, but their great-aunt.

[drakeborough]

May 27, 2016 18:46:27 GMT Scrooge MacDuck said:

Yes, "son" can be used that way.

May 27, 2016 21:31:41 GMT Scroogerello said:

The fact that she refers to Donald as "son" doesn't necessarily mean that she's Donald's mother. In Taliaferro's Donald Duck strips, both Ludwig and Scrooge have referred to Donald as "son", ( coa.inducks.org/story.php?c=YD+61-11-30 and coa.inducks.org/story.php?c=ZD+51-03-18 ), while both of them are uncles of Donald's.

Thanks to both of you. Now it is certain that Taliaferro viewed Grandma Duck as Donald's grandmother.

May 27, 2016 18:46:27 GMT Scrooge MacDuck said:

As for the "no Italian stories have her as his mom": well, I did not say it was the standard way, I just said it popped up in a few stories, the most notable being "From Egg to Duck", where she is, for all intents and purposes, Donald's adoptive mom.

Like Scroogerello said, in "From Egg to Duck" Grandma Duck decides to become Donald's adoptive grandmother, while Scrooge decides to becomes his adoptive uncle (the story gets weirder when Scrooge somehow "finds out" Donald is really his nephew, but that's another story).

May 27, 2016 21:31:41 GMT Scroogerello said:

Indeed, Grandma Duck was never actually said to be Donald's mother, not even in Taliaferro's newspaper comics and "This is Your Life, Donald Duck" (where Donald refers to her as "Grandma" throughout the episode). In "From Egg to Duck" (or at least its German translation; I haven't read the original Italian version) Grandma is more of an adoptive grandmother to Donald, because "in terms of age [she] could have easily been a grandmother" (again, German version). Later in the story, Scrooge discovers that Donald is his *actual* nephew, making Grandma Donald's aunt.

Thanks for the info about "This is Your Life, Donald Duck", I knew about it but never watched it. The dialogue in the Italian version of "From Egg To Duck" is not much different fromthe German version: in the Italian version Grandma tells Scrooge "afterall, I am older than you! How many times have you already called me... grandma!"

May 27, 2016 21:31:41 GMT Scroogerello said:

The newspaper comics were centered around Donald, and the nephews weren't as prominent; most of the strips that featured Grandma Duck focused on the large generation gap between Grandma and Donald (e.g. Grandma gives Donald money that she's been saving, which turns out to be confederate money (!).

Yet more evidence that Taliaferro didn't saw her as Donald's mother.

May 27, 2016 21:31:41 GMT Scroogerello said:

Also, (though it was only mentioned once in the newspaper strips) HDL were the sons of Donald's cousin Della.

I still find it strange that there was no cooperation between Taliaferro and the animation team, which resulted in different names (Della vs Dumbella) and different relationships (cousin vs sister). I think Don Rosa did the best thing when he picked Della over Dumbella and sister over cousin.

May 27, 2016 21:31:41 GMT Scroogerello said:

With this in mind, if Grandma were Donald's mother, she wouldn't be HDL's grandma, but their great-aunt.

True, I didn't think about that!

[kuperkowo]

Grandma Duck as Scrooge sisters is also mentioned in this Marco Rota's comics : coa.inducks.org/story.php?c=I+HBP+++1-1 In this comics Grandma Duck and Scrooge Mcduck find (in the street perhaps) very young Donald Duck and Donald was raised by Grandma Duck. Story presented a history of Donald Duck life ,,from egg to duck".

[drakeborough]

Jan 10, 2017 21:28:06 GMT kuperkowo said:

Grandma Duck as Scrooge sisters is also mentioned in this Marco Rota's comics : coa.inducks.org/story.php?c=I+HBP+++1-1 In this comics Grandma Duck and Scrooge Mcduck find (in the street perhaps) very young Donald Duck and Donald was raised by Grandma Duck. Story presented a history of Donald Duck life ,,from egg to duck".

True, though this particular comic was already mentioned in the first post of this topic.

Anyway, the earliest source of this idea (Scrooge and Grandma Duck being sibilings) may be this 1960 combination of a poetry (by Guido Martina) + an illustration (by Romano Scarpa); this is the Inducks link. The illustration is called "Ignara Nonna Papera al fratello", meaning "Oblivious Grandma Duck to her brother".

The poetry says "Ignara Nonna Papera al fratello/un pezzetto ha venduto di orticello./L'astuto Paperone spicca il volo/i frutti nel mirar del... sottosuolo". The first two lines mean "Oblivious Grandma Duck sold a piece of her vegetable garden to her brother".

[deb]

It really doesn't help matters when you have stories where Daisy Duck and even Mickey Mouse call her "Grandma Duck" (and Scrooge "Uncle Scrooge" for that matter). Absolute continuity has never been a big thing in Disney comics pre-Rosa (that I've noticed anyways).

[RobbK1]

Jan 11, 2017 3:30:09 GMT deb said:

It really doesn't help matters when you have stories where Daisy Duck and even Mickey Mouse call her "Grandma Duck" (and Scrooge "Uncle Scrooge" for that matter). Absolute continuity has never been a big thing in Disney comics pre-Rosa (that I've noticed anyways).

That's only because Daisy and Mickey know her by that name because they read Disney Comics.

[drakeborough]

Jan 11, 2017 3:30:09 GMT deb said:

It really doesn't help matters when you have stories where Daisy Duck and even Mickey Mouse call her "Grandma Duck" (and Scrooge "Uncle Scrooge" for that matter). Absolute continuity has never been a big thing in Disney comics pre-Rosa (that I've noticed anyways).

Well, "Grandma Duck" has become sort of a nickname for her, so it makes sense that unrelated people would call her that way. This is similar to Grandpa Beagle, who is called that way even by obviously unrelated people like police guards or even Scrooge himself.

And Daisy has been Donald's steady girlfriend for years, so it makes sense she would call Scrooge "uncle".