This panel is what I referred to. It's possible that the phrase "kind of an uncle" is used in some other strip, but in this panel it is simply "uncle". Ludwig could be a "real" uncle to Daisy, married to Matilda, and be Grandma's cousin all at the same time. If this is what you want to believe, that's fine, but it's too... I guess complicated for my taste. Ludwig being super-old compared to Donald is not a convincing argument, since Scrooge is supposed to be even older. Still, I get your point. I'll try to read the story that mentions his Elvira-connection, and see what I think then. Him still being Daisy's uncle though, is out for me.
I agree that there's a lot of different branches named Duck on the family tree. I'd prefer if the different families had different surnames. However, I know someone suggested that Duck is simply a super-common name in this universe, sort of like Smith in ours. I'll go with that.
My tree currently has Douglas as Jake McDuck's son. Other fathers have been suggested in this thread, but I'm not read up on enough of them to decide whether to include them in my head-canon or not.
By the way, any thoughts on where Donald's cousin Mehitabel Mudhen fits into the family tree? If Matilda and Ludwig's marriage is ignored, maybe Mehitabel could be Matilda's daugther?
This panel is what I referred to. It's possible that the phrase "kind of an uncle" is used in some other strip, but in this panel it is simply "uncle".
This Sunday strip, which appeared the day before the strip you cite, is where Daisy says, "He's sort of an uncle of yours, isn't he?". Donald doesn't really answer that question (or at least his answer isn't shown on page), it's like Taliaferro was deliberately teasing us. Anyway, this strip suggests to me that (a) Daisy is not related to Ludwig (she is quite clear that he's Donald's relative and should have mentioned it if he was also hers) and (b) in Taliaferro's mind, at least, the relationship between Donald and Ludwig must also be complex, otherwise she would have just said, "He's your uncle, isn't he?"
By the way, any thoughts on where Donald's cousin Mehitabel Mudhen fits into the family tree? If Matilda and Ludwig's marriage is ignored, maybe Mehitabel could be Matilda's daugther?
Though it's obviously unofficial, Geoffrey Moses of Duck Comics Revue (our very own GeoX) has speculated that she may a relatie of Lulubelle Loon, due to the resemblance between mudhen and loons as birds. I've included her as such in my tree.
Oh, and there are a few people who feel rather strongly about the idea that Matilda, if not married to Ludwig, may actually be a lesbian, for the record.
Though it's obviously unofficial, Geoffrey Moses of Duck Comics Revue (our very own GeoX) has speculated that she may a relatie of Lulubelle Loon, due to the resemblance between mudhen and loons as birds. I've included her as such in my tree.
Oh, and there are a few people who feel rather strongly about the idea that Matilda, if not married to Ludwig, may actually be a lesbian, for the record.
My only problem with the Loon-connection is that Mehitabel wouldn't be Donald's cousin; she'd be his cousin's cousin (or if you go by the tree I recently posted, his second cousin's cousin). That's too distant for my taste, and they wouldn't even be related by blood. I mean, when Donald mentioned her, he was thinking up a lie under pressure. Why would someone this distant be the first one he thought of? If not Matilda's daugther, I'd prefer Mehitabel to be a grand-daugther of one of the Elders of the Duck clan, or something like that. This would make her a second-cousin of Donald, according to my tree.
I can think of nothing in the text that points to Matilda being homosexual. If I remember correctly, her only defining personality trait is that she likes to seduce cute cowboys.
I can think of nothing in the text that points to Matilda being homosexual. If I remember correctly, her only defining personality trait is that she likes to seduce cute cowboys.
It's just fan speculation; the same has been said about Jake McDuck, who appears to be an older, single man with no obvious romantic relationships and who lives with his brother's family. Similarly, if Matilda is indeed not married to Ludwig, then it makes her "an old maid", to quote Rosa (as she has never been linked with anyone else), and raises questions about her sexual orientation. Unfair assumptions, perhaps, but probably reflective of real-world realities. There's evidence to the contrary with Matilda, as you have pointed out, but I kind of like the idea of introducing some diversity by having Jake be homosexual (even if not open acknowledged in a Disney comic), despite his being such a minor character. On the other hand, Scrooge's other uncle, Pothole McDuck, is clearly not gay (he was shown as having a girlfriend, although probably not a serious one, in "Master of the Mississippi"), so it would surprise me if he never married or had children. As you probably know, many who don't like the idea of Scrooge having non-Rosa siblings have speculated that perhaps Gideon is Pothole's son, and the same may be said about Douglas, I suppose. I don't care much for either character, so don't feel too strongly about that. BTW, a lot of this was previously discussed in the "Surviving Duck Family Members" thread on this forum.
I can think of nothing in the text that points to Matilda being homosexual. If I remember correctly, her only defining personality trait is that she likes to seduce cute cowboys.
It's just fan speculation; the same has been said about Jake McDuck, who appears to be an older, single man with no obvious romantic relationships and who lives with his brother's family. Similarly, if Matilda is indeed not married to Ludwig, then it makes her "an old maid", to quote Rosa (as she has never been linked with anyone else), and raises questions about her sexual orientation. Unfair assumptions, perhaps, but probably reflective of real-world realities. There's evidence to the contrary with Matilda, as you have pointed out, but I kind of like the idea of introducing some diversity by having Jake be homosexual (even if not open acknowledged in a Disney comic), despite his being such a minor character. On the other hand, Scrooge's other uncle, Pothole McDuck, is clearly not gay (he was shown as having a girlfriend, although probably not a serious one, in "Master of the Mississippi"), so it would surprise me if he never married or had children.
It would surprise me if he did. Considering what glimpse we do see of his love life in Master of the Mississippi, he doesn't seem to me like the marrying type. And the Pothole already clearly getting on in years of Vigilantes of Pizen Bluff is clearly still single, too.
Also, if Pothole had any surviving children, wouldn't Horseshoe Hogg have gone after them as inheritors of the original bet in The Fantastic Riverboat Race?
As you probably know, many who don't like the idea of Scrooge having non-Rosa siblings have speculated that perhaps Gideon is Pothole's son, and the same may be said about Douglas, I suppose.
As I said before concerning Gideon, this attitude kind of baffles me — I can understand making him a half-brother like Rumpus, though I do not condone it; but having him no longer be Scrooge's sibling at all kind of ruins the one interesting thing about the character.
Concerning Douglas, I don't think it'd fit the evidence, considering Jake clearly grew up in Scotland with Fergus as an uncle he knew all too well (and found too prone to spending). But if you don't want to accept non-Rosa uncles (if you do, it offers up Midas McDuck as the ideal father for Douglas), you can have him as Jake's son and still have Jake be homosexual; as I've mentioned before, Douglas was adopted.
Well, Pothole was relatively young, in his late thirties, in "Master of the Mississippi". He's clearly enjoying bachelorhood in that story, but his attitude towards romance and women isn't very different from many men at that stage who later end up in successful marriages. And we don't know for sure that he doesn't have a family in "Vigilante of Pizen Bluff", do we? He's not traveling with them, but that's not to say they're not "back home" somewhere or even estranged from him. But you do have a point that if Pothole had had a son of his own, Horseshoe Hogg probably wouldn't be bothering with Scrooge.
It's very unusual that of the three McDuck brothers, only Fergus had children. And surely there were McDuck sisters? I mean, not on Rosa's tree, but it's clear now that as much as I love it as a starting point, there are too many issues with that tree for it to be considered irreproachable or exhaustive.
Well, Pothole was relatively young, in his late thirties, in "Master of the Mississippi".
Wait, really? I've never checked whatever dates Don Rosa may have given him in interviews or the like, but as a reader I never pictured Pothole as younger than 40.
Well, Pothole was relatively young, in his late thirties, in "Master of the Mississippi".
Wait, really? I've never checked whatever dates Don Rosa may have given him in interviews or the like, but as a reader I never pictured Pothole as younger than 40.
You're right, rechecking what Rosa said, Pothole is ten years older than what I initially thought, so late forties. But it probably doesn't change the rest of my post (he could still get married in his fifties).
I thought I'd post my full family tree here. It's basically done now, but I'd appreciate your thoughts. The full image is too large to post, so I had to divide the tree up into three parts. So first up: The Duck family.
You'll notice I've added the name Dora Duck as Fethry's sister and Dugan's mother. One of my aims with this tree was to include all Taliaferro, Barks, and Rosa-relatives. Donald's cousin Dora is mentioned in YD 38-08-12. Next up, I've added Donald's aunt Deborah, from YD 50-01-26, as Eider's wife. She sends Donald a knitted turtle-neck sweater. I thought a marriage to Eider made sense, since the two of them at least have their passion for sending stuff to Donald in common. I could have added Deborah as a real aunt to Donald, and be a sister to Eider, Quackmore, and Daphne. Then she could be the mother of Mehitabel Mudhen. However, then you'd have to explain why Deborah wasn't present in The Life And Times of Scrooge McDuck 10, and I don't want that right now. Lastly, I've kind of merged gran'daddy Daniel, Donald Duck senior, and Bluffer Duck into one great-grandfather character. Bluffer seems to be a nickname, and Donald senior's story was never translated into English, so maybe all three of them are Daniel? I don't have access to all of the relevant stories to see if that's a possible retcon, but I theoretically might like it... so I'll go with it for now. I would also like to merge Bridger and Crockett into one character. I know Crockett is supposed to be one generation older, but the two of them look identical, and the real Davy Crockett's lifespan lines up much better with being Donald's great-great-grandfather rather than 3 greats.
Okay, so here's the McDuck's. As I previously suggested, I've added Mehitabel Mudhen as Matilda's daugther. The only problem I see with this is that some stories describe Donald and the nephews as Scrooge's only living relatives. This would mean that Hortense, Matilda, and any other possible offspring are all dead when those stories take place. So I don't know about that one. I've only included Gideon as there's one Taliaferro-strip that mentions that Scrooge had a brother. (This begs the question, if I accept that Gideon wasn't present during Life and Times of Scrooge McDuck, why not Deborah? The answer is I don't know.) I've also added Scrooge's cousin Theobald from ZD 67-01-15. Titus and Quagmire's father is Picaljean from a Les Misérables-parody story.
Finally, the Coots. Okay, so I think the only odd stuff here is the placement of Grandpa Duck from No Hunting. But, since most people have accepted that he isn't Donald's grandpa, and instead go for his great-great-grandpa (as Gilles Maurice did), I thought I'd do so too. However, considering his beak-shape, I thought he'd fit better here. Oh yeah, and after reading the Ludwig von Drake-thread, I fully embrace him as Grandma's cousin. I like him as Matilda's husband too, but I'm too tired now.
Hey, that's it! Tell me what you agree with and what I got wrong!
You'll notice I've added the name Dora Duck as Fethry's sister and Dugan's mother. One of my aims with this tree was to include all Taliaferro, Barks, and Rosa-relatives. Donald's cousin Dora is mentioned in YD 38-08-12.
I'd never thought of making Dora Fethry's sister. It works, though I'd personality stick with the classic fanonical Mary.
Lastly, I've kind of merged gran'daddy Daniel, Donald Duck senior, and Bluffer Duck into one great-grandfather character. Bluffer seems to be a nickname, and Donald senior's story was never translated into English, so maybe all three of them are Daniel? I don't have access to all of the relevant stories to see if that's a possible retcon, but I theoretically might like it... so I'll go with it for now. I would also like to merge Bridger and Crockett into one character. I know Crockett is supposed to be one generation older, but the two of them look identical, and the real Davy Crockett's lifespan lines up much better with being Donald's great-great-grandfather rather than 3 greats.
If you do want to make Daniel into Donald's great-grandfather, making him also be Bluffer Duck is fair enough, since Bluffer remains off-screen. But Donald Duck Snr. looks nothing like Daniel (he's basically a Donald lookalike, with no hair, a long beak and beak-adjacent eyes). On the bright side, he's also not explicitly described as a direct ancestor of Donald, so you don't lose anything by leaving him as a great-uncle.
Concerning Crockett and Bridger: I found it fitting that Bridger would take after his father, meself.
Titus and Quagmire's father is Picaljean from a Les Misérables-parody story.
Sorry, that don't work. Valduck (that's his official English name) is not, indeed cannot, be a direct paternal ancestor of Scrooge, since he's not a McDuck by name. And by all appearances he never married, so probably not a direct ancestor at all.
Okay, so I think the only odd stuff here is the placement of Grandpa Duck from No Hunting. But, since most people have accepted that he isn't Donald's grandpa, and instead go for his great-great-grandpa (as Gilles Maurice did), I thought I'd do so too.
I thought I'd post my full family tree here. It's basically done now, but I'd appreciate your thoughts.
Great effort! Your tree matches my headcanon far more closely than the overly-narrow Rosa tree, or the overly-broad Maurice one. You probably know most of the areas where I differ from you, but here goes:
1. Again, with the last name Duck, it's hard for me to accept Whitewater as related to Donald solely through the McDuck line. The only way this could happen is by introducing yet another family named Duck, and I'm opposed to that in principle. Yes, it's been argued that the name Duck is very common in the Duckverse, and I can accept it as an explanation as to why Donald and Daisy both have that last name (it's weak, but there's really no alternative), but why keep making the same mistake going forward and compound the problem? I'm not sure why Lars Jensen thought making Whitewater a McDuck nephew was a good idea. I feel comfortable just ignoring that connection, but if we must use it, the best way in my mind is to have one of Douglas' sisters marry a son of one of the Duck elders (though that's still a little too coincidental for my taste).
2. I know very little about Mehitabel Mudhen; is she clearly described as Donald's first cousin? If not, there are many places you can put her, such as as a daughter of one of Humperdink's or Elvira's siblings. Is Mudhen definitely her maiden name? If not, then she could even be a married daughter of Eider. Making her a daughter of Matilda is problematic for a reason you alluded to; not only would she be a living relative of Scrooge's, but she'd also be as closely related to him as Donald and Della are! That would upset the basic balance of the Duckverse in my mind.
3. You ask, "If I accept that Gideon wasn't present during Life and Times of Scrooge McDuck, why not Deborah? The answer is I don't know." Well, since you're talking about Deborah as a daughter of Grandma's, it's very conceivable that she was off the farm the day Scrooge, Hortense and Matilda meet them in Chapter 10 of Life of Scrooge. Maybe she's already married to Mr. Mudhen and living with his family. Grandma wouldn't necessarily mention her when she first meets the McDucks, who are strangers at this point, she'd only introduce the family that was standing there (she calls Eider and Daphne "two of their young 'uns" and later refers to Quackmore as "their other boy"; there's definitely a door open there for another daughter). On the other hand, it strains credulity to propose that Scrooge has a brother who is never seen or mentioned in the multiple Life of Scrooge plotlines involving the Clan McDuck. Gideon's existence (unlike Rumpus') is contradicted by Life of Scrooge, so I can't accept him into my headcanon (and don't find him all that interesting anyway).
4. Speaking of Rumpus, I see that you didn't include him. Do you not accept him? If you do, then perhaps you could add Downy's two sisters, Vera O'Drake and Rumpus' as-yet unnamed mother, and add Rumpus there as the son of the latter and Fergus.
5. Also, where would you put Cousin Fred? Given how much we discussed him on this thread, I'd hate for him to be left out.
6. It's too bad Fethry's nephew's name is "Duck", but he's also supposed to be the child of Fethry's sister. This means that Fethry's sister married a man from yet another family named Duck, or kept her maiden name (unlike most other female characters in the Duckverse), or is a single mother as has been suggested is the case with Della. I don't like any of those choices.
I thought I'd post my full family tree here. It's basically done now, but I'd appreciate your thoughts.
Great effort! Your tree matches my headcanon far more closely than the overly-narrow Rosa tree, or the overly-broad Maurice one. You probably know most of the areas where I differ from you, but here goes:
2. Considering she's the first person Donald thinks of under pressure when he's lying, I'd assume they aren't too far away on the family tree. So I guess that's my main argument for first cousins. I did consider putting her as a grand-daughter of the other Duck Elder, maybe with Deborah in between.
3. Yeah, I also thought Deborah could already have been married off at that time (maybe to Mr. Mudhen). I believe that tended to happen quite early in girls' lives at that point in time. I've heard the argument that Gideon was off to some school during the first chapter of Life and Times, which is why we don't see him. I'm not super-familiar with the Gideon character, so I don't know how well that fits. I'd prefer if everything just was consistent... Wouldn't that be great?
4. I definitely should include Rumpus. It's just that his exact relation to Scrooge confuses me. First he was a cousin, then they found out he was really a half-brother, right? And Rumpus' mother is supposed to be a sister of Downy's? That's bananas!
5. He would make such a good fit for Gladstone's brother (since he's really lucky he somehow found success with his art). That being said, he is both Donald and Gladstone's cousin, so I'd make him Eider's son. However, Fred is not part of my head-canon, so ironically enough, just like Rosa, I'd be adding a son to Eider on the tree that I don't want there.
I notice you did not mention the placement of the No Hunting-grandpa. What are your thoughts about him, Baar Baar?