Weekly Discussion Thread #3

[alquackskey]

Feathery Society Weekly Discussion Thread

Week 3



Main Subject

The Buckaroo of the Badlands - Don Rosa (1992)

I.N.D.U.C.K.S Link (D 92008)



The third chapter in "The Life and Times of Scrooge McDuck" - Scrooge, on his journey west, has a run-in with the James gang; he comes out on top, but still ends up falling off of the train. Thankfully, Scrooge comes across a farm, where he meets Murdo MacKenzie and becomes a ranch-hand.

The McVipers, also assistants of MacKenzie, double-cross him and steal Vindicator, his prized bull. Scrooge has to journey through the Badlands to get the bull back - thankfully, he makes a friend who helps him along the way. Through a series of hijinx, Scrooge manages to get Vindicator back - and while he becomes the manager of Murdo's ranch, he knows it's only temporary - eventually, he'll be heading into the rocky mountains to continue his journey.

Though Scrooge and T.R. don't exactly see eye to eye on their values, T.R. helps to reinvigorate Scrooge - he reminds him of the value of hard work, and not to lose hope in the face of defeat or failure.


What would you say are the highlights of this chapter? Are there any moments, panels etc that you think are underappreciated? Perhaps overappreciated?

How do you feel about the story in the grand scheme - how do you feel about Scrooge's personal progress in this chapter? How does it stand as an individual story, and how does it stand as a chapter in a saga?

What are your thoughts on the conflict in this chapter? Scrooge has multiple run-ins, with the James Gang and the McVipers - how well do you think these conflicts were handled? Is there anything that you think should have been done differently?



And, of course, any thoughts not covered here are welcomed and encouraged!



Secondary Subject

The Cowboy Captain of the Cutty Sark - Don Rosa (1998)

I.N.D.U.C.K.S Link (D 98045)



In this issue, Scrooge retells his adventure on board the legendary Cutty Sark - when transporting longhorns to the Sultan of Djokja, a rival sultan interferes with the deal in a plot to steal the longhorns for himself.

In his quest to get them back, Scrooge runs into Ratchet Gearloose, whose studies are integral to Scrooge's success in the chapter. After witnessing history and running into many perilous situations, Scrooge eventually gets the longhorns back and manages to sell them for a modest sum - only to lose most of it paying for damages that occurred along the way.


What are your thoughts on the imagery in this story? It relies heavily on visual humour - were there any gags that you really enjoyed, or any that just fell flat? Then there are the more aesthetically pleasing shots - did any stand out to you as being particularly impressive?

What were your thoughts on Captain Moore? He's a very prominent figure in the story; did you feel that he was utilized well? Was he given too much prominence? What did you think about the jokes around this character?

Does anything in this chapter stand out to you as being a major part of Scrooge's development, or is it merely an interesting tale from his youth?




Cover Art Discussion

            

From Left to Right: Anders And & Co. # 1992-45, Uncle Scrooge #287, Uncle Scrooge #318



Location Discussion

Farms

From the beginning, farms have had a very prominent place in Disney comics.
The most relevant to this discussion would, of course, be Murdo MacKenzie's Ranch - a significant part of Scrooge's personal history, where he got Hortense (the Horse) and where he earned his title as the Buckaroo of the Badlands.

There's also Grandma Duck's Farm - what place it has in Donald's history might vary by author, but all can agree that it's an important place in his life.
Whether it's seen as the place where he grew up, or as a sort of a hub for family gatherings, no one can argue that Grandma Duck's Farm is an important place in Disney comics.

There are plenty of other farms that could be discussed - Hard Haid Moe's, for example. If there's a farm in Disney comics that you find to be of note, feel free to bring it up!

How well do you think farms are utilized in Disney comics - do the ones in question add anything significant to their stories?
As many comics tend to be centred in the city or in areas of adventure, the farms offer a fairly unique setting - what are your thoughts on this? Is it a welcome change of pace, or does it feel out of place among the other stories?



Fanon Discussion

How well or how poorly do you think Rosa handles the subject of race?

Though Carl Barks was undoubtedly an amazing and influential storyteller, many of his depictions of race are frowned upon due to offensive stereotyping or insensitivity to certain groups or cultures.
Most can agree that, while the extent may be debatable, Barks has many problematic portrayals of certain races.

However, this discussion pertains to Rosa - what are your thoughts on his portrayals of race?

He goes to painstaking effort to make sure that certain characters and cultures are portrayed accurately - Jabiru Kapirigi, the Aborigine wiseman, being an easy example of this.
However, despite his accuracy, certain depictions from Rosa could be viewed as questionable or insensitive - for example, Jabiru's mistakes and mispronunciations of certain words, or the stereotypical antagonistic behaviour of the Sultan of Solo - what are your thoughts on this?

And, of course, there's the question of Foola Zoola.
Did Rosa's attempts to salvage the character work? Did he manage to make the character less offensive, or did he simply slap a new coat of paint on an unfixable stereotype?

It's, of course, a complex discussion - however, I don't think that it's brought up as much with Rosa as it is with Barks.
What are your thoughts?





Next Week's Topics:



Main Subject: Raider of the Copper Hill - Don Rosa (1992) [I.N.D.U.C.K.S Link]

Secondary Subject: Boat Buster - Carl Barks (1961) [I.N.D.U.C.K.S Link]

Character Discussion: Howard Rockerduck

Fanon Discussion: TBD



(Apologies for not uploading the fanon discussion in last week's thread - I've had a lot on, and didn't get the chance to come up with something in time. I might just leave the fanon discussion blank until that week, depending on how people feel?)

[That Duckfan]

I'm starting to find this is a lot of homework to get through every week! I'll kick off the discussion without having read the stories. The Cowboy Captain of the Cutty Sark is one of my favorite Rosa adventures. It's got a whole lot of everything: great adventure, historical incidents, comedy, you name it. Plus, it takes place in the Dutch East Indies, a place that just doesn't get the recognition it deserves.

Rosa and race... now that's a barrel of worms. I scraped the top of it elsewhere on this forum in my Pertwillaby Papers reviews. Tl;dr: Rosa is certainly knowledgeable and respectful enough to pass in polite society, but he's not politically engaged enough to ponder the deeper implications of his own innovations --- and his love for pastiching old adventure movies brings him in hot waters at times. Rosa is less of a cynic as Barks, so he never ended up writing something as horribly offensive as Land of the Totem Poles, but his efforts to promote BIPOC character rarely go beyond "sympathetic supporting character" level.

Scrooge is a problematic character by nature, especially if you look at the history of how he made his money. I'm not sure if Disney is ready to explore that, let alone Don Rosa. But Rosa's reverance toward the Scrooge character doesn't make things easier. I have a bone to pick with Scrooge's definition of a square deal, given how cutthroat business empires normally need to be run. I have no doubt Africa was a mistake, but the following decades we see Scrooge trading around the world still carry heavy undertones of colonialism. Not to mention his track record for wage labor exploitation.

[geox]

This stuff is extremely interesting. Why aren't there more responses? Well, there's so much stuff here that responding to all of it would be overwhelming, granted.

Well, here's what I would say as far as racial issues are concerned: I think that thinking about it as Barks vs. Rosa might not be super-helpful, because I don't think it's really a matter of idiosyncratic personalities. Rather, I would be inclined to think of it as old vs. new: pretty much EVERY creator in Barks' era used unfortunate racial stereotypes, not necessarily because they personally were big fat racists, but just because that was the cultural climate (though clearly there was at least sublimated racism involved). Whereas by the time Rosa started writing, things were different; people were more aware of these things and careful about what they were doing.

As for Rosa personally: I agree with That Duckfan, basically: I don't see think he has any personal racial animus, but he DOES get into dicey territory because of his eagerness to follow in his hero's footsteps: hence, extremely questionable stuff like "Escape from Forbidden Valley."

I did like the way he portrayed Foola Zoola (with the caveat that I haven't read "Empire Builder" in a while; it's conceivable my reaction would change). I regret that he never wrote a "Hoodoo Voodoo" sequel that would have redeemed Scrooge (notwithstanding the potentially difficult issues that would raise).

[That Duckfan]

Jun 17, 2021 3:09:25 GMT geox said:

This stuff is extremely interesting. Why aren't there more responses? Well, there's so much stuff here that responding to all of it would be overwhelming, granted.

Yes, it IS a bit much for a week, especially when you're also working on other things.

Well, here's what I would say as far as racial issues are concerned: I think that thinking about it as Barks vs. Rosa might not be super-helpful, because I don't think it's really a matter of idiosyncratic personalities. Rather, I would be inclined to think of it as old vs. new: pretty much EVERY creator in Barks' era used unfortunate racial stereotypes, not necessarily because they personally were big fat racists, but just because that was the cultural climate (though clearly there was at least sublimated racism involved). Whereas by the time Rosa started writing, things were different; people were more aware of these things and careful about what they were doing.

I think so, too, but it's still an interesting paradox to our eyes to see how artists would vary wildly in their depictions between different stories. There's different literary traditions at stake between a Voodoo Hoodoo and an Old California, to pick two fairly extreme examples from one author.

Time does its wonders as well. The portrayal of South Americans between Son of the Sun and its predeccesor, Lost in (an alternative version of) the Andes is quite different. The latter being more along the lines of Escape to Forbidden Valley. Have you read Rosa's pre-Duck work, GeoX? I've been making my way through it over here, but I'm sure you'd be able to pick out things that went over my head.

[That Duckfan]

The Buckaroo of the Badlands
Most of the creator's commentary on this story consists of Rosa lamenting his own creative choices, getting Lost in the Andes wrong, and going over his first draft. It's an odd note to strike, Rosa going so far as to say this isn't one of his best scripts.
I'm inclined to agree, but a different front. There isn't a lot of interesting happenstance in this story, the chaos basically building up to the second-to-last page. The mayhem in the badlands is certainly very enjoyable, I love the panel where the McVipers are being chased by a bear while a bemused Murdo MacKenzie watches on, but it's hardly climax-tier material.

The train sequence seems something of a dead end as well. If Rosa wanted to make use of the James gang, he could have made them the central protagonists, instead of sharing the spotlight with the McVipers (who are broadly similar). And I don't like the gag where Seafoam's dentures crack the James boys' fingers, it's too gruesome for Disney. It's a second draft and there was probably a deadline involved, but I think the sequence would've been better left on the cutting room floor.

And then there's Theodore Roosevelt. This story marks Rosa's first (?) departure into portraying real people, which is a feature of his histories that I've always liked. But his TR doesn't ring entirely true to me: this isn't "the bride at every wedding and the corpse at every funeral", as his daughter Alice Roosevelt Longworth once described him. He doesn't even look much like the real Roosevelt. This TR is a bespectacled boy reminiscent more of Rosa's self-insert characters. Roosevelt also dispenses a lot of wisdom that seems out of place for a young man of 24, although Scrooge of 15 isn't much better. I used to love this portrayal, but it seems a bit forced now. Thankfully, he'll get better over time.
Total: 6 or 7 out of 10


The Cowboy Captain of the Cutty Sark
I've always enjoyed this story, and I still do. It's a proper chapter-B, with none of the weight on Scrooge's future. In fact, Scrooge spends most of this story reacting to things, which is something I greatly enjoy and befits his age. Rosa also spins a masterful yarn around the explosion of Krakatau in 1883 and the end of the Age of Sail. This story serves up a great mix of adventure, comedy, and even some poignant moments.

There's an interesting array of characters here. The stone-faced Captain Moore is a Rosa stock-in-trade, the Sultan of Solo and his gang of misfits are enjoyable villains, and Ratchet Gearloose also adds to the proceedings. Scrooge and Hortense really show themselves worthy in this story, too -- learning and mastering the situation in real time. The photography gag is hilarious, and it helps that this is one of Rosa's most picturesque stories. I don't know enough about geothermal explosions to nitpick, another plus.

It's such a unique story, too, not just in Disney comics but in popular culture at large. How many stories can you name that are set in the Dutch East Indies? It lends a different flavor to the story -- not least because I am Dutch, and we don't learn nearly enough about day-to-day life in our former colonies. To be sure, these aren't exactly a day-to-day events, but it's still nice. Rosa mentions Flashman in his commentary, a series I've always wanted to read, and it's a shame Rosa never leaned more into the colonial setting. Colonial-era pop culture has subsided a bit over the past few generations, but I hope that with the new insights it'll be making a bigger return soon. (Although I don't think we'll see much lionizing of the shipping trade anymore, sadly.)
Total: 8 or 9 out of 10


Cover Art Discussion
I like the Van Horn one best. I don't know, I just don't think this is one of Rosa's best covers. And the less said about the layout and coloring of that Anders And & Co., the better.

[geox]

I did start to read some of that early Rosa stuff, but somehow I never really got into it. It was interesting to see where some of his later stories come from, however. It would have been interesting when I wrote about "Last Lord of El Dorado" if I'd known that the somewhat notorious part is taken straight from an earlier work.

As for the covers, I also like the "Secrets" one. Last Gladstone issue of WDC, if I recall correctly. It's kind of mysterious in a fun way. Not that I don't like some of Van Horn's later work for what it is, but it's somewhat shocking to look at his earlier stuff and realize, whoa, this guy had actual narrative ambition at one point! What ever happened to that?

[Matilda]

The Buckaroo of the Badlands

I agree with That Duckfan *and* with Rosa himself that this is not a strong chapter. I feel like it's just marking time, and other than introducing T.R., nothing much happens. I do enjoy the critters: the prairie dogs, the line of rabbits at the top of the panel That Duckfan refers to where Murdo watches the McVipers getting chased by the bear, and my personal favorite, the burrowing owl (no, I'm not going to tell you where she is, you have to find her!). I also like the drawings of the badlands.

The Cowboy Captain of the Cutty Sark

This is far more enjoyable--lots more happening. The volcanic eruption was of huge historic significance, but doesn't appear in many narratives in our popular *or* high-literary culture. I laughed way more than while reading Buckaroo. The continuing jokes are funnier: the missing camera, the absurdly surefooted Hortense, the stone-faced captain. The visuals of the ship with all sails set, the volcanic eruption and its aftereffects, are all terrific. I'm a sucker for clipper ships. Among countless impressive little accuracies in Rosa's art, I most appreciate here the fact that the flags on the ship fly in the right direction: when the sails are full with wind from the stern, the flags fly forward, not back towards the stern. It's amazing how often contemporary artists, used to seeing motored boats which create their own airflow towards the stern, get this wrong when they draw sailing ships.

____________________________________

I'm glad alquackskey is switching to biweekly discussions: this is too much to handle, and I particularly miss alquackskey's own participation. Feel free to leave off the fanon piece entirely, to reduce the content overload.

[That Duckfan]

Jun 18, 2021 3:01:01 GMT Matilda said:

I'm glad alquackskey is switching to biweekly discussions: this is too much to handle, and I particularly miss alquackskey's own participation. Feel free to leave off the fanon piece entirely, to reduce the content overload.

[/div][/quote]I may have expressed myself badly before we started, I thought that we would have one discussion beside the stories, and the nature of this discussion could range from fanon/character/location/cover. Something interesting to delve into. Three separate discussions is a bit much, as I had basically nothing to say about the locations this week.