A theory about Hortense and Quackmore

[Fethryfan]

It's widely believed by the Duck fandom that Donald's parents, Quackmore and Hortense, are probably dead in the present time. But no one is exactly sure about when they died. It could have happened when Donald was a kid, a teen or an adult

However, while i was reading some stories, i started to think about it, and i believe Quackmore and Hortense were still alive at least until 1946-1947, and they were not living together anymore

Let's begin at Barks' 1943 story, The Hard Loser. Donald states that he is going to borrow "Grandpa"'s old buggy horse

We know Donald's grandpa, Dabney, is dead. But Donald says they are going to Grandpa's, implying that whoever this Grandpa is, he is still alive
pbs.twimg.com/media/E-2NmyBWYAEz3NY?format=jpg&name=medium

While Barks probably intended for this unseen character to be Donald's grandpa, i see no problem in retconing him as none other than Quackmore himself

Now, we must go to Barks' 1945 story, Best Christmas. Donald and the boys go visit a rather different Grandma. She lives in a house instead of on a farm and her design is very different from Elvira's

Then again, Barks probably wanted this character to be the regular Grandma Duck, but she is very different from Elvira. I believe two users of this forum have, in the past, theorized that this Grandma was actually Hortense and i really liked this "theory"
pbs.twimg.com/media/E-2NmyBWUAMDS9G?format=jpg&name=medium

Now, if we consider those two to be Quackmore and Hortense, we must think...why isn't Quackmore living with his wife? Well, he could have died between The Hard Loser and Best Christmas (not impossible at all), but we can also suggest that they divorced sometime after 1930. Both of them were very temperamental in their youth (like their son), so it's not hard to believe they ended up divorcing after many discussions throughout the years

I still have to think more about this theory, but i think there is no contradiction to it so i'm gladly accepting it in my headcanon. What do you think?

[juicymcduck]

I guess it depends on how "realistic" (i.e. similar to the real world) you want the Duck universe to be. Don't quote me on that, but I think that in the 1930s, if you wanted to file for divorce, you still had to prove you were the victim of cruelty, adultery, or abandonment. "We're just not getting along" was not a sufficient reason. And also... it was the Great Depression. The times were so tough, economically speaking, that couples would think twice before considering a divorce.

[LP]

My thinking is that the Grandpa in The Hard Loser is actually Humperdink/Dabney, who owns a horse on Grandma's Farm. He dies shortly after, causing Grandma to hire Gus Goose as her new farmhand, taking Humperdink/Dabney's place.

I also like the theory that the Best Christmas-Grandma is Hortense. Her looks, personality, and place of residence is too different from "the real" Grandma Duck to be one and the same. I'd say Best Christmas takes place during Christmas 1945 or 1946, and that she dies not too long after.

The difference between the two is that in The Hard Loser, Donald thinks of Grandpa as "Grandpa", rather than "Dad" or "Father". This is in contrast to Best Christmas, where the "Grandma"-title is always in reference to HDL. Donald always refers to the grandmother as "your grandma" or "Grandma" when talking to HDL. I mean, it is not uncommon for my mother to call my grandparents "Grandma and Grandpa" when talking to me, even though they are her parents.

And I guess this leaves Quackmore's death date up in the air. I'd say he probably died in WWII.

[Fethryfan]

Sept 10, 2021 10:53:25 GMT LP said:

My thinking is that the Grandpa in The Hard Loser is actually Humperdink/Dabney, who owns a horse on Grandma's Farm. He dies shortly after, causing Grandma to hire Gus Goose as her new farmhand, taking Humperdink/Dabney's place.

I also like the theory that the Best Christmas-Grandma is Hortense. Her looks, personality, and place of residence is too different from "the real" Grandma Duck to be one and the same. I'd say Best Christmas takes place during Christmas 1945 or 1946, and that she dies not too long after.

The difference between the two is that in The Hard Loser, Donald thinks of Grandpa as "Grandpa", rather than "Dad" or "Father". This is in contrast to Best Christmas, where the "Grandma"-title is always in reference to HDL. Donald always refers to the grandmother as "your grandma" or "Grandma" when talking to HDL. I mean, it is not uncommon for my mother to call my grandparents "Grandma and Grandpa" when talking to me, even though they are her parents.

And I guess this leaves Quackmore's death date up in the air. I'd say he probably died in WWII.

That's...a pretty clever theory

Before coming up with this idea (that The Hard Loser's Grandpa is Quackmore) i thought that Quackmore had died in WWII too

[LP]

Sept 10, 2021 13:23:57 GMT Fethryfan said:

That's...a pretty clever theory

Before coming up with this idea (that The Hard Loser's Grandpa is Quackmore) i thought that Quackmore had died in WWII too

Donald's father was said to have been a pilot in Donald Gets Drafted, so I guess my head-canon is that Quackmore was a fighter pilot in WWI and returned for the sequel. The only problem is that he would have been in his late 60s during WWII... I don't know if people of that age were even allowed to fight in the war. 

[sim]

Donald's parents are seen as mundane people in a flashback from this story.



Plus there is that Don's-father's-name-being-Drake thing from that old '30s radioshow, but I wouldn't call it canonical, pretty interesting though.

[juicymcduck]

Yeah, the whole Drake thing might have been Walt Disney's intention at some point(s), but basically everyone else ignored it in the comics continuum. I have no qualms ignoring it altogether.

[LP]

Yeah, with Ludwig's surname being "von Drake" and him supposedly being Donald's paternal uncle, I can see how that was the intention. However, with Scrooge's surname being "McDuck", Donald needs another parent who is actually named "Duck".

Everything would make so much more sense if Scrooge was actually Donald's grand-uncle. Alas, he is not.

[Fethryfan]

Sept 11, 2021 15:05:39 GMT LP said:

Yeah, with Ludwig's surname being "von Drake" and him supposedly being Donald's paternal uncle, I can see how that was the intention. However, with Scrooge's surname being "McDuck", Donald needs another parent who is actually named "Duck".

Everything would make so much more sense if Scrooge was actually Donald's grand-uncle. Alas, he is not.

Yeah, i consider that information of Donald's father being a von Drake as canon to the cartoon universe which i believe is separated from the comics universe (basially made up of every animated feature with Donald, Goofy and Mickey except for Ducktales '17 and Legend of the Three Caballeros which i believe are ser in their own small universes), but it's impossible to consider this canon to the comic universe

i mean, if you ignore Barks and Rosa's stories maybe you could make Donald's father a von Drake, his mother a Duck and Scrooge as his great-uncle, but i wouldn't do that

[sim]

According to this strip, it looks like that Grandma Duck is actually Donald's mother.

[juicymcduck]

Nov 22, 2021 14:28:56 GMT sim said:

According to this strip, it looks like that Grandma Duck is actually Donald's mother.

Now, to be extra technical and nitpicky, all it says is that she's HDL's grandma. 

[sim]

Nov 22, 2021 15:27:52 GMT juicymcduck said:

Nov 22, 2021 14:28:56 GMT sim said:

According to this strip, it looks like that Grandma Duck is actually Donald's mother.

Now, to be extra technical and nitpicky, all it says is that she's HDL's grandma. 

touché!

[LP]

Nov 22, 2021 14:28:56 GMT sim said:

According to this strip, it looks like that Grandma Duck is actually Donald's mother.

Worth noting is that in the continuity of this strip, Elvira is both HDL's grandmother and Donald's! He calls her "Grandma" too! I mean, you wouldn't call your mother that, right?

Related to the topic, I thought I'd post this one too, from Rosa's WHADALOTTAJARGON. At least Rosa's version of Elvira clearly doesn't think it is necessary too be specific enough to include the "great-" in "great-grandmother":

[juicymcduck]

Nov 22, 2021 21:42:21 GMT LP said:

Nov 22, 2021 14:28:56 GMT sim said:

According to this strip, it looks like that Grandma Duck is actually Donald's mother.

Worth noting is that in the continuity of this strip, Elvira is both HDL's grandmother and Donald's! He calls her "Grandma" too! I mean, you wouldn't call your mother that, right?

I guess that, too, depends on the family. My mother and her siblings certainly call their own mother "Mamy" (i.e. Granny) all the time, at least when the younger generation (their own children) is present.

[Matilda]

Nov 22, 2021 22:10:57 GMT juicymcduck said:

Nov 22, 2021 21:42:21 GMT LP said:

Worth noting is that in the continuity of this strip, Elvira is both HDL's grandmother and Donald's! He calls her "Grandma" too! I mean, you wouldn't call your mother that, right?

I guess that, too, depends on the family. My mother and her siblings certainly call their own mother "Mamy" (i.e. Granny) all the time, at least when the younger generation (their own children) is present.

My mother (born 1918) would *refer to* her own mother as "Grandma" when speaking to us children (Go see if Grandma is ready). But she did not call her mother "Grandma" directly. I'm sure some parents do call their parent "Grandma/Grandpa" in front of the children, though.