Thanks for the list. So, there relly is a basis for Wikipedia's claim that "On few occasions Donald Duck has taken on the role as a Troop leader".
And since you own the whole run of HDLJW, have you noticed in this series some stories in which it is said that only JW can consult their guidebook? Or stories in which it is said that the guidebook is made up of several volumes? Or stories in which it is said the guidebook does not contain info a JW is supposed to already know?
I think I've just come across the first story with official Senior Woodchucks in it (I don't know about the slightly earlier S-coded story that was mentioned):
Thanks for that, so that's the first (and maybe only) W-coded story to use the expression "Senior Woochuck(s)". Too bad it's not in the first page, since that's the only one I can see on Inducks; anyway, I guess it must be a bad story since it has HDL interacting with the Big Bad Wolf. I don't think Lockman was inspired by the earlier S-coded story, since it was never published in the USA. At the same time, I also think Rosa was not inspired by any earlier story, and his use of "Senior Woodchuck" is just a coincidence based on the obvious fact that "Senior" is the opposite of "Junior".
I read that story in French, though I didn't catch any mention of 'Senior Woodchucks'. It's not very good. Nothing to roll your eyes at especially, but nothing much of interest. I'm more interested in the fact that one of the stories mentioned here (The Ghost of Woodrew Woodchuck) apparently deals with the ghost of "the founder of the JW", here called Woodrew Woodchuck. Does anyone have any details on this?
No ghost in that story. It's just a film projection by gangsters who want the JW out of their way. It's successful, too, because the JW use to follow their leaders and "Woodrew" keeps on saying "Go away!"
drakeborough: Can't remember any such instances in that series. Same goes for Barks.
About Donald being portrayed as a JW... how could I forget about the real-life versions of the Junior Woodchuck Guidebook that were published in Italy? I only own the first book, which is still few shelves over me:
Obviously there's so much more info missing from this book than just the original rank of the original nine Templars , but I have learnt a few things from it.
About he subject of Donald as a JW: in the 2014 Italian story Paperino Gran Mogol d'occasione (from Topolino #3054, released on June 10, 2014 as an all-Donald issue for his 80th anniversary of the day before) Donald must send HDL on an international trip to Italy with the JW. However, the Grand Mogul has injured himself, so he asks Donald to temporarily replace him, and he accepts. The Grand Mogul also tells Donald "You were a Woodchuck already, only... sleeping! It's time to activate you!" However, the context makes it clear that Donald was not really a JW: the Grand Mogul was saying Donald was a JW in spirt, because he believed some false heroic feats of Donald that were actually made up by HDL.
About he subject of Donald as a JW: in the 2014 Italian story Paperino Gran Mogol d'occasione (from Topolino #3054, released on June 10, 2014 as an all-Donald issue for his 80th anniversary of the day before) Donald must send HDL on an international trip to Italy with the JW. However, the Grand Mogul has injured himself, so he asks Donald to temporarily replace him, and he accepts. The Grand Mogul also tells Donald "You were a Woodchuck already, only... sleeping! It's time to activate you!" However, the context makes it clear that Donald was not really a JW: the Grand Mogul was saying Donald was a JW in spirt, because he believed some false heroic feats of Donald that were actually made up by HDL.
I've never seen Huey, Dewey and Louie lie or fib, making up false feats that Donald was to have accomplished to make him look better or to brag about him, in any American, Dutch or Danish-produced story. That is just not in their characters. It is usually the opposite, that they tell the truth to make sure that strangers don't think Donald is good at woodsmanship, when he is not. Did The Nephews do that because Donald's accompanying them on the trip is the only way they could go on the trip.
Did The Nephews do that because Donald's accompanying them on the trip is the only way they could go on the trip.
If you are interested in that scene, here are page 4 and 5 of the story:
I am in a hurry now and have no time to do an English translation, but if I remember correctly you can understand Italian. Feel free to ask for a translation if that's not the case.
Super-fast translation, bold words are rended as upper-case
GM: They don't need it, it seems... DD.: GRRR! They need to DEPART! They must absolutely shov... EHM, complete their mission!
GM: Dear Donal, I see this affair is really close to your heart! DD: You can bet on it! (note: Donald and Gand Mogol use second plural person when talking to each other, showing respect)
GM: What a noble soul! You coul SUBSTITUTE me! DD: B-But...I don't think that's appr...
DD: I mean... how could I, a ORDINARY DUCK, substitute the Grand Mogol? GM: See? You have the right spirit! Modest, respectful... ma actually capable of great things!
GM: Generals Huey, Dewey and Louie did tell me about your EXPLOITS in favour of the Nature! DD: EHM... yes?
GM: You are too modest for somebody who can boast the discovery of new animal species... the crossing on foot of the TUNDRA...
GM: ...wild deforestations stopped at the cost of TIE YOURSELF to trees and who knows what else! DD: EHM... I don't like to boast!
HLD: SIGH! We should have not INFLATED the reality about Uncle!
HLD: We should have confessed to Grand Mogol how little Young Woodchucker spirit rests in our nearest relative... HLD: except the tendency to LETARGY!
GM: You were alreay a Young Woodchucker, just... SLEEPING! It has come the time to ACTIVATE YOU! DD: The fact is that... you see... on me that hat is horrendous!
GM: But you will have THIS as GRAND MOGO AD INTERIM!
GM: with all the POWERS and the HONOR this office will grant you! DD: UHM... I didn't think about that!
I see that Huey, Dewey, and Louie were afraid that they couldn't take the trip, AT ALL, IF The Grand Mogul would not appoint Donald to take his place. For THAT to happen, The Great Mogul had to think that Donald had been, and still is, a member of The Junior Woodchucks, and is just currently inactive, but he had been a Junior Woodchuck in good standing as a child and teen, AND, he also had to have been a Junior Woodchuck adult leader. I don't remember any US stories in which Donald was a Junior Woodchuck leader. But, I do remember one or two Dutch stories, and a several Egmont stories in which Donald took the place of his Nephews' Junior woodchuck troop leaders because they were stuck somewhere and couldn't arrive, or were sick or injured. I even had an Oberon story I wrote, myself, together with Frank Jonker, and, I believe an Egmont story I wrote for Jan Gulbransson in which Donald took over for Huey, Dewey and Louie's troop leader.
I see that Huey, Dewey, and Louie were afraid that they couldn't take the trip, AT ALL, IF The Grand Mogul would not appoint Donald to take his place. For THAT to happen, The Great Mogul had to think that Donald had been, and still is, a member of The Junior Woodchucks, and is just currently inactive, but he had been a Junior Woodchuck in good standing as a child and teen, AND, he also had to have been a Junior Woodchuck adult leader. I don't remember any US stories in which Donald was a Junior Woodchuck leader. But, I do remember one or two Dutch stories, and a several Egmont stories in which Donald took the place of his Nephews' Junior woodchuck troop leaders because they were stuck somewhere and couldn't arrive, or were sick or injured. I even had an Oberon story I wrote, myself, together with Frank Jonker, and, I believe an Egmont story I wrote for Jan Gulbransson in which Donald took over for Huey, Dewey and Louie's troop leader.
The dialogue doesn't imply that Donald used to be a JW; the Grand Mogul's "You were already a Junior Woodchuck, you were simply asleep" is meant metaphorically. e.g. "You have all the latent qualities of a Junior Woodchuck, you just weren't officially one".
I see that Huey, Dewey, and Louie were afraid that they couldn't take the trip, AT ALL, IF The Grand Mogul would not appoint Donald to take his place. For THAT to happen, The Great Mogul had to think that Donald had been, and still is, a member of The Junior Woodchucks, and is just currently inactive, but he had been a Junior Woodchuck in good standing as a child and teen, AND, he also had to have been a Junior Woodchuck adult leader. I don't remember any US stories in which Donald was a Junior Woodchuck leader. But, I do remember one or two Dutch stories, and a several Egmont stories in which Donald took the place of his Nephews' Junior woodchuck troop leaders because they were stuck somewhere and couldn't arrive, or were sick or injured. I even had an Oberon story I wrote, myself, together with Frank Jonker, and, I believe an Egmont story I wrote for Jan Gulbransson in which Donald took over for Huey, Dewey and Louie's troop leader.
The dialogue doesn't imply that Donald used to be a JW; the Grand Mogul's "You were already a Junior Woodchuck, you were simply asleep" is meant metaphorically. e.g. "You have all the latent qualities of a Junior Woodchuck, you just weren't officially one".
Whether or not Huey, Dewey and Louie lied about Donald having been a Junior Woodchuck, or just fibbed about his having good forestry and woodsmanship skills doesn't matter for this story. But, I like the idea that they wouldn't blatently lie about Donald having been a member of The Junior Woodchucks, as that would hurt the readers' images of their impeccable morality. Exaggerating, even greatly about Donald's wilderness abilities is a matter of opinion. If a Junior Woodchuck official would look up membership records and see that Donald was never a member, his nephews might be banished from the organisation, for lying to save their trip, and putting themselves unnecessarily into danger. At the very least they'd be dropped down to mere "Majors".
I see that Huey, Dewey, and Louie were afraid that they couldn't take the trip, AT ALL, IF The Grand Mogul would not appoint Donald to take his place. For THAT to happen, The Great Mogul had to think that Donald had been, and still is, a member of The Junior Woodchucks, and is just currently inactive, but he had been a Junior Woodchuck in good standing as a child and teen, AND, he also had to have been a Junior Woodchuck adult leader.
Well, that's not what happens in the story. Pages 1-2 show Donald taking HDL to the Duckburg Airport. Page 3 show them meeting the Grand Mogul, and discovering he has recently injured himself and cannot accompany HDL anymore. Page 4-5... well, I already posted them and sirtao already translated them: the Grand Mogul says Donald can replace him. So, it's obvious that HDL had told the Grand Mogul tall tales about Donald BEFORE the story even started, and for reasons that have nothing to do with this travel. And I agree with sirtao that the Grand Mogul meant to say something like "You have all the latent qualities of a Junior Woodchuck, you just weren't officially one".
By the way, after the story there is an interview, supposedly done by Donald himself, to actress Paola Cortellesi, who provided the basic idea for this story. In the interview, she says "I learned many things in these places, even though, let's say it, I was never a Junior Woodchuck..." to which Donald replies "Well... we are two!", meaning he also was never a JW.
But, I do remember one or two Dutch stories, and a several Egmont stories in which Donald took the place of his Nephews' Junior woodchuck troop leaders because they were stuck somewhere and couldn't arrive, or were sick or injured. I even had an Oberon story I wrote, myself, together with Frank Jonker, and, I believe an Egmont story I wrote for Jan Gulbransson in which Donald took over for Huey, Dewey and Louie's troop leader.
That's interesting. Can you find the Inducks link of those stories?
Last Edit: Nov 19, 2019 13:23:55 GMT by drakeborough
Meanwhile, I point out that in this story the guidebook is called "Junior Woodchuck Manual", which is yet another alternate name for it. So far, we had "Junior Woodchuck Handbook" in the Fallberg/Bradbury unnamed story (1953), "Junior Woodchuck's Book of Knowledge" in Barks' Atlantis story (1954), and "Junior Woodchucks' Guide Book" in Barks' "Tralla La" (1957). The latter became the official name (spelling variants notwithstanding), and yet the image above shows that as late as 1957 there could still be an occasional name variation.
Another thing: the cartoon shows the guidebook, but in this instance it has another alternate name: Jr Woodchuck Guide.
I just noticed that in the 1963 story The Know-It-All (Ludvig Von Drake #3, March 1962) Fallberg and Strobl used the name "Junior Woodchuck's Manual" (at least, it seems so in this pixelated image):
The name is nearly identical to "Junior Woodchuck Manual" used by the same authors in the 1957 story we already discussed. I didn't know that as late as 1963 some authors still used "Manual" rather than "Guidebook".
Another instance, which predates all the stories mentioned above, is the Italian story Paperino e l'alce bianco (1967), written by Rodolfo Cimino and drawn by Guiuseppe Perego:
HDL call Donald "commander" in the second panel.
There is a bloodhound named Dingo, but I don't know if he's a new character if he's meant to be Barks' Snoozie (who had several Italian names in the past): if it's the latter, then Inducks forgot to add him to the list of characters appearing in the story.